>>42824949
I think the big difference is that there's simply way more black people than trans people. Sure most people have seen media portrayals, but most still don't personally know any trans people personally. So there really wasn't any contact at all and many will have experienced it simply as this political issue suddenly being all over their entertainment that they've never really encountered. Same for gay people to a lesser extent, but also they didn't have a massively funded hate campaign against them when gay rights really took off. When they did, in the 80s, 90s early 00s they were also fairly hated

>>42825014
I think this is actually getting to the crux of the issue. Trans people, despite being a very tiny sliver of the population, demand a disproportionate amount of accommodations for themselves. You don't really have to "opt-in" to anything to stop hating black people, you just stop hating black people. With trans people you have to be willing to change your entire paradigm regarding sex and gender, and it seems like trans people themselves can never come to a complete conclusion on what being trans actually is.
>most still don't personally know any trans people personally
I personally know many trans people irl (I live in Portland, Oregon) and I still find myself at odds with trans ideology on several points. I try my best to avoid painting any group with a wide brush but it's become more and more difficult over the years.

>>42825095
>demand a disproportionate amount of accommodations for themselves
They said this about blacks a lot during the Civil Rights Movement. Ultimately it’s your opinion, but I do not agree.

>>42825095
I think you have an overly simplistic idea of what racism is. Racists don't generally hate they people they're racist against, they consider them less human than themselves. This can look like hate, but also condescension etc. So in that way, becoming less racist actually did/does necessitate a fundamental shift in a persons worldview. Trans people are not unique at all in that regard.

>>42825147
I think it's a false comparison. Black people do not require access to medical care to be black, and black people do not require other people to call them black in order for them to be black. Black peoples' existence is not predicated upon anything other than having a black parent. The only real concession that needs to be made is you need to stop saying the n word and let black people live their life.

>>42825095
Portland is like the tranny capital of the world.

>>42825165
I do have a very simplistic view of racism because racism is a very simplistic mindset. "Race" as a concept is has no basis in reality and is entirely vibes based. For a very long period of time Irish people were considered non-white, for instance.
>>42825183
Yes? That just illustrates my point. I've talked with trans people before, many times. I've dated trans people. I've worked alongside trans people. I've attended college and had a trans professor. I've been fully immersed in trans culture ever since I moved here 22 years ago. Yet I'm still not 100% on board with the current direction.

>>42824949
modern "visibility" of trans people is not a result of people knowing more actual trans people in real life, or of actual trans people becoming more prominent, but instead a result of cis people promoting their own personal stereotypes of trans people, whether positive or negative, in media
the "positive" stereotype our """allies""" like to promote the most is the flamboyant bearded man in a dress but everyone pretends he's cool and glamorous instead of ugly
cis people literally cannot comprehend twinkhons or other much more common types of tranny because this kind of shit is all they see. there's some positives to this, like you can be clocky as hell and cis people won't realize you're trans because this is what's in their heads, but mostly it results in bad institutional policy that hurts us

>>42824949
>Trans people were placed in media across all platforms and basically controlled the narrative for many years
retard goycattle detected

>>42825170
This might be an argument, if the bar that society is currently failing to clear wasn't to simply leave trans people alone. We're not at the point where the demands are healthcare and respect, we're at "please don't imprison us as rape toys and subjects for medical experimentation" in the US

>>42825210
>simply leave trans people alone
But trans people do not "simply wish to be left alone". Trans visibility as a concept contradicts that mindset. If they truly wished to "simply be left alone" then total assimilation and stealth would be the goal (like it was in prior decades, when trans people were mostly just seen as a medical oddity rather than an existential threat).
>>42825208
If everywhere you look there is sheep, chances are you are part of the herd.
>>42825203
It is true that a ton of cis people co-opted the trans movement to virtue signal. However, it is also true that there is a non-zero number of trans women who have beards and trans men who are essentially just women with short hair (if that).

>>42825241
>trans people do not "simply wish to be left alone
This is such a ridiculous thing to say at this point. Maybe in 2020 you might have had a point. In current year, every trans person would be much happier and safer if cis people simply stopped thinking about us

>>42825170
It’s not a false comparison. Asking people to stop using race as an organizing principle is not that dissimilar - it is challenging an entire worldview where race is a major heuristic category that had huge legal and social implications. You seem very ill informed and probably are engaging in motivated reasoning, I’m afraid to say.

>>42825241
>However, it is also true that there is a non-zero number of trans women who have beards
right, but "non-zero" is a retarded standard to use here. there's also a non-zero number of gay men who are bugchasers. if a sizeable chunk of gay men in media had been depicted as bugchasers, that would have a had a significant impact on the trajectory of gay acceptance!

>>42825241
>total assimilation and stealth would be the goal
This is gradually becoming illegal in the US with bathroom laws and revocations of ID. You're incredibly out of touch

>>42825286
>every trans person would be much happier and safer if cis people simply stopped thinking about us
This is not reflected in reality and I think you surely must know that. They would not be beating down the door of every major company demanding representation if this was the case. They would not be demanding Hunter Schaefer play Zelda if this was the case. They would not have flags/pronouns in their bio (or even their display name) on every social media platform if this was the case. You can't have your cake and eat it too, if you want to be totally left alone then just exist as a "woman" not a "trans woman".
>>42825297
You do make a valid point. To be clear I do believe wholeheartedly that adults should be able to consent to whatever kind of treatment they want. I'm not some chud just trying to own le libtards. I'm just observing a weird pattern.
>>42825291
I'm not a racist, so I can't pretend to know what goes on in a racists' mind unfortunately. You seem to be very acutely aware of how racists think. If we're going to make baseless accusations, I'd take a look at that more closely.
>>42825306
This is happening because the goal became "be as loud and obnoxious about your transness as possible" and people were upset about it. Unfortunately actions do have consequences.

>>42825332
>I'm not a racist, so I can't pretend to know what goes on in a racists' mind unfortunately. You seem to be very acutely aware of how racists think. If we're going to make baseless accusations, I'd take a look at that more closely.
So you’re literally just a troll, got it.

>>42825241
>If everywhere you look there is sheep, chances are you are part of the herd.
If you eat up the propaganda that 90% of the population is eating up then you are part of the herd, but if you nootice that then you are also part of the herd because you just are. You sure owned me reddit style with your comeback!

>>42825354
I didn't know that not being racist made someone a troll now. I'm sorry I don't hate black people for no reason? I'm sorry I had black friends growing up that taught me about their culture?
>>42825363
You're literally doing the "if hate capitalism why iphone" argument at me.

>>42825374
Troll post

>>42825363
you aren't immune to propaganda and the fact you think you are actually makes you more susceptible to it

>>42825332
You are mentally stuck in 2016. It's time to wake up

>>42825386
I'll be here if you want to have a genuine conversation about the topic.

>>42825399
In what way am I mentally stuck in 2016? You do realize that the Informed Consent model we currently use came about when Orange Israel Man was in office, right? 2018.

>>42825332
>This is not reflected in reality and I think you surely must know that. They would not be beating down the door of every major company demanding representation if this was the case. They would not be demanding Hunter Schaefer play Zelda if this was the case. They would not have flags/pronouns in their bio (or even their display name) on every social media platform if this was the case. You can't have your cake and eat it too, if you want to be totally left alone then just exist as a "woman" not a "trans woman".
i think you would benefit a lot from getting to know some trans people via pathways other than politicized social media algorithms.
the whole reason for the problem that you're noticing is that this doesn't happen naturally. for a cis person, if your brain didn't randomly generate for you one of the weird interests trans women tend to cluster around (specific subfields of math, tech, philosophy, etc.) you just won't see them except via politics, and flashing exosemantic gang signs everywhere is a major part of politics.

>>42825332
>if you want to be totally left alone then just exist as a "woman" not a "trans woman".
>actions do have consequences
This is incoherent. You can't shit on trannies for not just being normal women and defend laws banning trannies from just being women in the same post and not expect to be recognized as a disingenuous troll. Have a nice day

>>42825401
You’re not capable, unfortunately.

homosexuals and blacks have always been odious, and (in America at least) people have always been in contact with them. suggesting that southerners in the late 19th and early 20th century just needed more "contact" with blacks to get over their racism is obviously insane. Japan on the other hand is an example of a culture whose products we genuinely weren't familiar with. we made contact with them, we saw that they were making good things (and btw it was black and white movies that did this decades before anime was a word on English tongues), and that their society was nice, and now we admire them. very simple process. it doesn't support the "contact hypothesis" and that example doesn't belong on your list.

""contact hypothesis"" is an obsolete term in a world in which jews have lost their hegemonic control of their subjects' thoughts via television, movies, journalism, universities and advertising, due to the internet. come back in ten years when Alex Karp and Larry Ellison (or his son, as Larry might be dead at that point) have finished corralling and censoring all electronic communication and creating a digital panopticon.
if the tranny concept is still useful to Jews at such time, you will see the "acceptance" you desire becoming widespread

>>42825431
Please scroll up in the thread and stop making assumptions about people. I talk to trans people in real life all the time. I just bought weed from a trans person a few days ago.
>>42825433
Have a nice day.
>>42825438
I'm sorry you think that. Have a nice day.

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>>42825442
I'm not going to affirm your schizophrenic delusions with a genuine response. Have this instead.

>>42825474
kinda weird because I agree with that gif but have a nice day

>>42825460
>Please scroll up in the thread and stop making assumptions about people
i am not making assumptions, i am making inferences from the descriptions you give of your internal model of trans people. it's all media-driven. you have stated that you've interacted with trans people in other contexts, but your descriptions of those contexts are much sparser than your descriptions of social media trends.

>>42825487
Bro’s brain is cooked from the algorithm and pulling the “I have a trans friend” card. This is a disingenuous troll.

>>42825487
Do you want me to give you the intimate details of my relationship with my ex boyfriend or something? Do you want me to describe me putting my penis in a trans woman's asshole for the first time? Do you want the name of the trans woman who sold me coffee at a farmer's market? Do you want to go through my friends list on Discord and ask all my trans friends there what they think of me? I'm not sure what you're saying.

>>42825506
>Do you want me to describe me putting my penis in a trans woman's asshole for the first time?
Yes this would be very helpful. Please be detailed

>>42825500
I'm not sure why you think I'm sponsoring the current wave of transphobia. If you genuinely can't believe anyone can have questions about anything without fully supporting the thing they have questions about then I'm sorry but you're not very intelligent. I can question why Hitler decided to invade Russia without supporting Hitler.

>>42825530
It’s honestly amazing how you’re not even capable of comprehending what is actually being said to you, and are just reflexively defending yourself against accusations that haven’t even been made. I wonder why that is?

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>>42825530
>I can question why Hitler decided to invade Russia without supporting Hitler.
I know you didn't ask, but as a Hitler supporter I have some thoughts on that subject

>>42825528
I'll try to do so without doxxing anyone as she may very well be on the board right now.
We had hung out for about 11 hours in total that day actually. We met up in the morning and had a wonderful time in the city. Ate some curry, visited some shops, saw the cherry blossoms. I bought her a new top that she tried on as soon as we got to her apartment. I told her she looked beautiful and she was really happy. I did notice she was a bit weird about PDA, didn't like holding hands or touching much in public. But I assumed that was just general anxiety.
Later on we went to my place because her "roommate" was coming home and she didn't want her "roommate" to see us together. Later I would learn this was actually her girlfriend, but at the time it seemed reasonable enough. We go back to my place and I cook her some dinner, we eat and talk for a while and she starts getting very handsy. Asking me questions about what sort of things I'm into, giving me "the look". Pretty soon she was sitting on my lap and grinding on me, kissing me, exploring my body with her hands.
Do you want me to keep going?
>>42825535
I thought you told me to have a nice day? Or was that someone else?
>>42825555
I'd be interested in hearing them, it is widely regarded as one of his biggest mistakes (alongside declaring war on America).

>>42825555
Sure, what’s your opinion of it? Why did he open up an Eastern front?

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hi chuddy! here is a relevant hazbin hotel image for your post.

>>42825576
>Or was that someone else?
Someone else, because you are strawmanning so wildly that multiple people have stopped engaging with you, because your whole style of communicating is irritating and sus. You are definitely a Destiny fan.

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>>42825597
I played the original on PS3 and didn't really like it. Destiny 2 was okay for a bit but I haven't played it in years and I don't see any reason to return. Are Destiny players known to be whatever it is you're accusing me of or something?
>>42825591
Here's a Gundam screenshot for you.

>>42825506
>I'm not sure what you're saying.
that much is obvious, given that you're treating what i said as a request for more information.
when you started talking about trans acceptance and the contact hypothesis, the first thing you chose to talk about is media. maybe you really do know trans people in real life, but they're less real to you than the media stuff is. you had to be specially prompted to bring the real world up, it didn't naturally occur to you.
i don't think you're especially bad in this regard, much of america is like this and it cuts across all the other political divides, no faction is immune.

>>42825635
>whatever it is you're accusing me of
Now you are pretending you don’t understand what the word “irritating” means.

>>42825095
As if there wasn't any paradigms around race and biology that people needed to, AND STILL DO, deconstruct. I weep for the state of education and liberal historical revisionism.

>>42825642
Because media DOES affect reality in a very strong way. If you think gay rights would have been accepted without gay people being depicted in the media you are just clearly false. Obviously real-world contact is also important, but the media basically owns the global consciousness now. You may consider them "cattle" or whatever, but those cattle are the ones who prop up society. You could not live without those cattle doing their manual labor jobs to keep this whole thing running. If you want to change global opinion, you do it with the media. Period.
That being said, I do see your point that the media displays only what it wants to display. However, as stated before, this actually plays to trans peoples' favor. There was a period of time in which trans people really did dominate the narrative, whether they choose to believe it or not.
Also, once again, I DO have a lot of contact with trans people in real life and I am not 100% on board with trans ideology. I do believe in the "live and let live" model but I do not see trans people actually pushing for that. And that's really the only thing I take umbrage with, I dislike when someone's words and actions are not in alignment.
>>42825656
If you find me irritating you are free to leave the thread and find something better to do with your time.
>>42825658
Race does not exist in biology, it is a social construct with no basis in reality.

>>42825014
>they didn't have a massively funded hate campaign against them when gay rights really took off
How can one become this retarded and historically illiterate? Is this power achievable through natural means?

>>42825671
>Race does not exist in biology, it is a social construct with no basis in reality.
I know anon... that's what I'm saying, the point was people didn't always think that and some still do. Which is an idea that is very shattering to the worldview of many.

>>42825576
>>42825579
well if you read what Hitler and his generals said in the immediate aftermath of the event, they were quite convinced that they had just pre-empted an imminent Soviet invasion. they were very consistent about this -- Hitler's public comments were along the lines of "We thought we knew what they were planning, but what we discovered when we attacked was that they were planning an even larger attack than what we knew about!" (which sounds a bit like something Trump would say lol. doesn't mean it isn't true!).
the "mainstream" post-war consensus is that he was just lying, and made the whole thing up to justify the attack ex post facto. but I personally don't think that makes a lot of sense because the inner circle was not super confident that the invasion would even succeed. (and I mean, the pessimists were right: it did not succeed) so the idea that this was seen as a war of choice by the Germans seems to me unlikely. it seems to me that they must have felt their hand had been forced in some way or another.
the crux of disagreement among specialist historians of the question is whether the Soviets were, in fact, preparing to invade German-held territory. can we tell from the existing evidence whether the accusation was correct? a lot of laymen point to the USSR's extremely poor operational performance in the early stages of the war (Stalin allegedly having a panic attack etc) as evidence that the USSR was caught off-guard, and therefore couldn't have been preparing for war. but the reply to that notion is that deploying your army for an invasion is a very different thing from deploying your army for a defense-in-depth, and that it may in fact have been this offensive posture that made Barbarossa so disastrous for the Russians.
I can present further reading from both sides of the issue if anyone is interested, although I do tend myself to believe that Hitler was telling the truth for the aforementioned reasons

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>>42825635
here is a relevant hazbin hotel image for that response.

>>42825671
>There was a period of time in which trans people really did dominate the narrative, whether they choose to believe it or not.
the conflation here between propositions A: "trans people were featured prominently as characters in the media narrative" and B: "trans people controlled and wrote the media narrative" is load-bearing for your argument. if you collapse the superposition into proposition A, your argument stops being valid (sharing a property with a character in a story obviously has nothing whatsoever to do with that story overall promoting your interests), and if you collapse it into proposition B, the premise is false (trans people do not and have never controlled the mainstream media).

>>42824949
>What is so different about trannies?
Pretty much all people had to do to respect homo and black rights was to avoid them and not actively interfere with their lives. Trannies demand massive social concessions like allowing men in womens restrooms and sports, forcing straight men into homosexual relationship, and pretending like biological sex doesn't exist. The real killer is pretending like literal children are perfect arbiters of their own identity.
>Why does more contact mean more hate?
There are very few trannies with sane reasonable demands like "leave me be! just let me get my surgeries and pretend I'm a woman!"

>>42825724
Nobody has ever accused the average person of being intelligent. But even despite them being completely ignorant, once again we have not seen any major reversals in black rights. One might say that is because the matter is "settled" so it would be a futile effort, but according to WPATH and many other organizations the matter of trans people was already "settled" as well. If they really wanted to, lawmakers could absolutely revive Jim Crowesque laws. But they don't. This is despite the fact racists still exist en masse. Yet trans rights are taking losses left, right, and center. That's strange to me. I understand the current administration is largely to blame for that, but I would also once again point out the current Informed Consent model came about under Diaper Don.

Hold on everyone my mom is hysterical on the phone with me because it's tax season

>>42825808
One issue with your thinking is the belief that things are uniform. At the same time that there are rollbacks in some places, there are increasing protections in others. Visibility has meant not just more hostility, but more acceptance. Increased acceptance and increased hostility can exist at the same time. The same is true of racial justice - we *are* seeing rollbacks of anti-discrimination initiatives, erasure and revisionism of anti-racist education, less enforcement of civil rights laws, and even open discussion from people like Kirk on rolling back codified civil rights protections. None of this is cleanly uniform, there are multiple dimensions and points of tension to all of this.

>>42825808
Also, the informed consent model emerging under Trump isn’t paradoxical. A federal administration can be hostile rhetorically while medical standards evolve independently through professional bodies and state level policy. Federal politics and medical practice aren’t a single unified machine.

>>42825802
Blacks demanded they be let in white restrooms, in white sports, around white children in white schools, forcing white women to be let in interracial relationships etc. it was all the same shit people reviled and wanted to keel them separate

The real difference between then and now is that social media completely took over and rightoids were better at blasting antitrans propaganda. Simple as. If we had twitter in the 60s blasting every black criminal and weirdo and nobody engaging with each other in real life they'd get pushback too

gotta snuff out the "NB" identity first

>>42825802
>>42824949
Samefaggotry or retardation, call it
>Woman's rights never took a step back aside from abortion access
You sure about that? Defunding of women's healthcare, attempts to make voting harder for married women, reduction in social benefits for mothers etc
>Gay marriage is "maybe" under threat now but only because it's being caught up in the fight against trannies
me when i'm retarded
>man, it's sure the fault of those pesky trannies that i voted for a party which only in 40% thinks me even having sex should be considered moral or legal

>>42825147
>They said this about blacks a lot during the Civil Rights Movement
I still do. We gave them an inch, they took a hundted miles. Deport them to Liberia now. This will have support of 90 percent populatiom.

>>42825895
My biggest fear right now is regarding the recent lawsuit. You probably know this very well, but money is literally everything in America. Now that the money has been touched, I fear there is blood in the water. I myself do agree that giving a child a double mastectomy, a orchiectomy, breast augmentation, or really any kind of surgery that is not strictly necessary is the very definition of malpractice, but you know lawyers will not stop at just that. I just wish it didn't have to be this way.
>>42825940
I don't agree with the Informed Consent model. "Do you want a dead son or an alive daughter?" is not a choice you can reasonably ask a parent to make. Patients cannot be informed and cannot consent while they are under duress.

>>42826109
>Patients cannot be informed and cannot consent while they are under duress.
This makes almost all medical interventions impossible then. Anyone needing CPR can just die because they aren’t conscious enough to consent.

>>42826109
>I don't agree with the Informed Consent model.
this is in contradiction with what you stated here: >>42825332
>adults should be able to consent to whatever kind of treatment they want.
it sounds like you might think pediatric gender medicine is happening on an informed consent basis, when in reality it isn't. adolescents are not able to just go to planned parenthood and get hormones the way adults can (in some places, it isn't available everywhere), they have to either DIY or get a diagnosis of gender dysphoria.

>>42826194
He contradicts himself in every second post he makes. He's a troll, not worth engaging with

>>42826238
No you don’t understand, he’s not a troll, because he fucked a trans woman in the butt, ok?! He is clearly an expert on all things about transgenderism and the transedgendereds.

>>42826321
She was already in a relationship, and he had gotten his hopes up! Anyone would be sceptical of trans ideology after such an experience!

>>42825735
The claim that Hitler and his generals sincerely believed they were preempting an imminent Soviet invasion does not hold up well against the documentary record, the strategic context of 1940–41, or the internal logic of Nazi policy, and the fact that they were consistent in saying so after the fact is not strong evidence of truth but exactly what one would expect from a regime that had already demonstrated a pattern of retroactively framing aggression as necessity; by the time of Operation Barbarossa Germany had already invaded Poland, Denmark, Norway, the Low Countries, and France, each time presenting the move as defensive or forced, and the supposed “preventive war” narrative against the Soviet Union fits seamlessly into that established pattern of justificatory rhetoric rather than standing out as uniquely credible. The argument that Hitler would not have undertaken such a massive gamble unless he felt forced ignores that high risk ideological wars of choice were central to his worldview; from the 1920s onward he had openly articulated in Mein Kampf and later speeches that Germany’s destiny required expansion eastward for Lebensraum and the destruction of “Judeo Bolshevism,” and once France had fallen in 1940 he repeatedly told his inner circle that the Soviet Union would have to be dealt with sooner rather than later, not because of imminent invasion evidence but because he believed Britain was holding out in the hope of Soviet or American intervention and that smashing the USSR would reshape the continental balance decisively in Germany’s favor. Planning for Barbarossa began in the summer of 1940, well before any alleged discovery of overwhelming Soviet offensive preparations, and the scale and ideological framing of the campaign, including the Commissar Order and the planned starvation policies in the east, make far more sense as components of a long intended war of conquest than as hurried defensive measures. (1)

>>42826176
They actually can choose to opt out of consent via a non-resuscitation clause, but I do see your point. However, when consent is not able to be given, we must act in the best interest to preserve life against an imminent threat of death. "Your son will off himself if you don't call him Alice from now on" is not preserving life against imminent threat of death unless they are literally pressing a gun to their head. This is especially prudent considering most teenage suicidality is self-limiting.
>>42826194
Once again, they cannot consent if they are under duress. If they aren't under duress then they are free to consent to whatever they want to. I'm not sure how that's contradictory.

>>42825735
The fact that some German officers were pessimistic about success does not imply they thought they were being invaded; militaries frequently debate feasibility while still supporting offensive operations, and several senior commanders including Halder and Brauchitsch saw the campaign as a bold but potentially decisive blow that would eliminate a future rival before it became stronger. As for the Soviet side, it is true that in 1941 the Red Army was in the midst of a large scale mobilization and forward deployment, but mobilization and contingency planning for possible offensives do not equate to a scheduled imminent attack, especially given that the Soviet Union had just gone through the purges of the officer corps, had performed poorly in the Winter War against Finland, and was still reorganizing its mechanized formations; archival evidence opened after 1991 has not produced a credible smoking gun showing a finalized Soviet invasion date or operational order for summer 1941, and mainstream specialists who have examined the documentation tend to conclude that Stalin was trying to avoid provoking Germany while buying time to complete rearmament, even if he was not naive about the likelihood of eventual conflict. The early Soviet disasters are also more consistent with strategic surprise than with a bungled launch position for their own imminent offensive, because many units were not fully manned, aircraft were caught on the ground in exposed positions, and command structures were paralyzed by uncertainty and fear of acting without explicit authorization from Stalin, who ignored multiple intelligence warnings of German attack in part because he believed Hitler would not risk a two front war before defeating Britain. (2)

>>42825735
That pattern of denial and shock aligns poorly with the thesis that the USSR was days away from launching its own massive invasion. Finally, the broader ideological and economic aims of the Nazi regime, including plans for colonization, demographic restructuring, and exploitation of Soviet territory under Generalplan Ost, were not emergency responses drafted in June 1941 but long developed visions of eastern empire, which strongly indicates that Barbarossa was conceived as a transformative war of annihilation rather than a reluctant act of preemption, and while historians do debate nuances of Soviet deployment posture and intentions, the weight of evidence does not support the conclusion that Hitler’s attack was forced by an imminent Soviet strike so much as it reflects a regime acting in line with its long declared expansionist program and later defending that decision with a narrative of necessity that fits its established propaganda habits. (3)

>>42826238
>>42826321
>>42826331
Please continue your creative writing exercises in another thread.

>>42826410
OP said those things happened, if anyone is making them up its him

>>42826390
>Once again, they cannot consent if they are under duress.
the only example of duress you have given is parents of an adolescent with suicidal ideation, in >>42826109. consent is irrelevant to that because adolescent treatment does not use the informed consent model and requires actual diagnosis.

>>42826109
>>42826390
Pediatric GAC is not based on informed consent. Even then, all medical interventions on children involve some degree of duress, because the children are suffering. That doesn’t mean anything. You don’t just not help sick children because the child and parents are distressed. You make literally zero sense and don’t know what you are talking about.

>>42824949
Every westerner who goes to Thailand thinks transwomen are cool. Western transphobia isn't due to a failure of contact hypothesis, in fact it's the opposite. You would never see a trans women as hot and passing as a Thai ladyboy going around telling everyone they are trans. Therefore in the west everyone assumes all transwomen are hons because those are the only ones that they see.

>>42826508
>>42826485
More lawsuits will come.

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>>42826386
>once France had fallen in 1940 he repeatedly told his inner circle that the Soviet Union would have to be dealt with sooner rather than later, not because of imminent invasion evidence but because he believed Britain was holding out in the hope of Soviet or American intervention and that smashing the USSR would reshape the continental balance decisively in Germany’s favor
source?
>>42826399
>>42826395
can't *really* take anyone who points to the "starvation plan" and "Generalplan Ost" concepts as evidence of anything seriously, sorry. if you know who you're talking to then this shouldn't be a surprise for you. but anyway as I've said before I'm not personally an expert on the outbreak of Barbarossa and I'm just presenting the case that Hitler presented for himself and as it was made by others. he didn't justify every one of his military actions by saying that the opponent was about to invade, just this one, after all
for those interested, here are some books for observers to this conversation to read if they want to see the direct evidence of the Soviet attack narrative examined by experts (I assume you are not one such person because you are clearly already ideologically attached lol no hard feelings)

Viktor Suvorov - Icebreaker (Russian historian advancing the narrative that Stalin meant to invade) available in kindle, or hardcover for the low low price of $1200 lol
David M Glantz - Stumbling Colossus (among other things, purports to rebut Suvorov. I personally do not think it succeeds) available in paperback and hardcover

https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-when-stalin-almost-conquered-europe/
^a layman's overview that is generally supportive of the Suvorov hypothesis, with a very extensive and (mostly) interesting comment section featuring arguments from all four quadrants of pro-/anti-Hitler and pro-/anti-Suvorov

>>42824949
>Contact Hypothesis teaches us that one of the best ways to promote cooperation and integration between two groups is to simply have them interact with each other several times under optimal conditions. This has worked several times in the past.
Totally wrong, btw. I have been forced by libshits to have the mentally ill, the drug addicited, and the terminally retarded live in my apartment buildings and I have gone from being indifferent to hating them with a firey passion.

>>42826556
Those are not optimal conditions.

>>42826539
You are moving the conversation laterally instead of acknowledging that you’re talking nonsense, but ok. Lawsuits increase cost and reduce access, but the real problem isn’t lawsuits because markets adapt to tort, it’s really the regulatory environment for insurance and laws being passed banning the care altogether. Lawsuits are being used to shape the market, not as tools of justice, but they are not the major threat. But I suppose sticking your cock into a trans woman’s asshole didn’t impart these facts to you.

>>42826568
I'm not engaging you in good faith because you are not engaging me in good faith.

>>42826539
the lawsuit you're talking about is only even a comprehensible possibility because adolescent transition *isn't* done on an IC basis. under IC, "the doctor misdiagnosed my problem and rushed me into an incorrect treatment" is nonsense, because the doctor isn't doing diagnosis at all.

>>42824949
What would Daryl davis do?

I know no one will believe me, but I really did make this thread just to answer the question I posited in the OP and not talk about my personal beliefs, but as usual I was harangued until I offered them up anyway. I do think I have my answer now.

>>42826543
First, dismissing the “starvation plan” and Generalplan Ost as irrelevant is not a serious rebuttal. Those plans are not rhetorical add-ons invented after the war; they were documented policy frameworks developed before and during Barbarossa that envisioned mass depopulation, food seizure, and long-term colonization of Soviet territory. You don’t draft continent-wide demographic restructuring programs if your objective is merely to preempt an imminent invasion. Those plans only make sense in the context of a war of conquest. Brushing them off without argument doesn’t make them disappear; it just avoids engaging with inconvenient evidence. Saying you are just presenting the case Hitler made for himself is not neutral analysis either, it’s a reflex of your own ideology (which if accusing me of being ideological somehow invalidates anything I am saying, which you suggested, then we have no reason to take anything you say seriously because you are clearly a Nazi). The entire question is whether that case corresponds to verifiable evidence. Repeating a leader’s self justification does not establish its truth. If you want the preventive war thesis to hold, you need concrete documentation of an imminent Soviet decision to attack, such as political authorization, operational orders, finalized timetables, and coordinated logistics. That evidence has not surfaced in the archival record.

>>42826543
Also, arguing that Hitler did not frame every military action as defensive is irrelevant because Barbarossa was uniquely large and ideological and required stronger legitimation while Britain was still fighting. The fact that a preventive narrative was, according to you, exclusively used here, does not make it credible. Apart from that, it’s not true. Poland in 1939 was justified as a response to alleged Polish aggression, most famously the staged Gleiwitz incident, where Germany fabricated a Polish attack on a radio station to claim self defense. Hitler told the Reichstag that Germany was merely responding to intolerable provocations and border violations. Denmark and Norway in 1940 were framed as necessary to prevent imminent British moves in Scandinavia. Berlin claimed it was acting to protect Nordic neutrality from Allied encroachment, despite Germany initiating the invasion. The invasion of the Low Countries and France in May 1940 was presented as a preemptive strike against Allied plans to violate Belgian and Dutch neutrality. Germany claimed it was forced to act before Britain and France did. Yugoslavia and Greece in 1941 were justified as responses to instability and alleged threats to German security after the Yugoslav coup disrupted Axis alignment. Even the remilitarization of the Rhineland in 1936 was framed as a response to French and Soviet treaties that supposedly encircled Germany. (2)

>>42824949
Because we were deliberately undermined by people in control of media, etc, by putting examples front and center of not actually trans people who are just deranged nutjobs.

>>42826647
>First, dismissing the “starvation plan” and Generalplan Ost as irrelevant is not a serious rebuttal
no and I'm not gonna do that here lol because it would take a lot of work and I don't feel like it. maybe some other time, really, I mean it.
>Those plans are not rhetorical add-ons invented after the war; they were documented policy frameworks developed before and during Barbarossa that envisioned mass depopulation
you kind of write like gpt btw lol if you're human you should probably work on that

>>42826543
And suggesting that disagreement stems from ideological attachment avoids the evidentiary burden. The mainstream view developed through decades of archival research, including access to Soviet records after 1991. If there were clear proof of a finalized Soviet invasion scheduled for summer 1941, it would have transformed the field. Instead what appears are contingency plans and forward deployments consistent with possible future offensives, not proof of an imminent strike. Your argument ultimately rests on plausibility rather than documentation. It may feel unlikely to you that Germany would launch such a risky campaign without being forced, but ideological commitment to eastern expansion, strategic calculation about Britain, and economic ambitions provide documented motives for choosing that war. When documented expansionist planning is weighed against the absence of documentary proof for an imminent Soviet attack, the preventive war thesis remains speculative while the war of conquest interpretation rests on far firmer evidence. (3)

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>umbrage
this is the same transphobe that made a thread stating he didn’t want to be an ally anymore because his local tranny friends are BPDemons so he’s generalized that to the entire community.

He’s had studies and links given to him countering his personal belief on why he thinks transitioning is ineffective or that trans kids shouldn’t transition for one reason or another. He even believes there is an epidemic of trans children getting multiple surgeries before they’re 18, when in reality it’s an extremely rare occurrence that is typically reserved for when they’re older and have been on HRT for an accepted length. I’ll even go and link them AGAIN just to have him IGNORE and not respond to them like how he ignored the analogies of the struggles with black people fighting for their place in society in the example comments of this very thread.
>>42801944
>>42801977
>>42801982
and >>42802012

Unless this “ex-ally” takes his counter arguments seriously, he’s just here to spread his misinformed beliefs.

>>42826563
quit moving to goal posts. I was told these are just normal people and I just need to be exposed to them and they just need to be exposed to me for us to get along.

How do you define ideal conditions?

>>42826673
Claiming your evidence or arguments are too burdensome, accusing me of being ideologically motivated, and accusing me of being a bot are all rhetorical tactics, not arguments or evidence.

>>42826696
nta but you’re being obtuse; there are people within any demographic that are going to be struggling in one aspect or all (financially, mental health, physically, etc.) and it’s the same rhetoric used by racists in the past when they were forced to live with impoverished black communities, that you now employ with trannies.

>>42824949
>What is so different about trannies? Why does more contact mean more hate?
1. The spokespeople for tttt.Inc is usually the fairest, sweeties, creepiest looking person they could find for the interview.
- Completely intentional by the media, imo.

2. Demands. You mentioned black people and women's rights. Their demands were quite straightforward and somewhat reasonable. Black people didn't want to have to walk an extra 10mins to get to THEIR water fountain.
- Trans people can't articulate what their end goal is.

3. Familiarity. Everyone on Earth has had a relationship with a woman, even if it was only chilling in her womb for months.
White men discovered that black men like sports, cars, and beer.
White women discovered that black women like shoes, makeup, and bitching about men obsessing over their sports and cars.

It is quite impossible to understand what a trans person is going through.
It is an experience that nobody that isn't trans will understand, to the point it is quite alien and fantastical to them. Hence the reason people believe you could just "stop being trans".

>>42826773
>usually the fairest, sweeties, creepiest
Fattest, sweatiest, creepiest

>>42826590
If your only response is to whine and cry then I accept your concession.

>>42826789
>still ignores the other comments in this thread challenging this guy’s logic
just ignore and it’ll go away

>>42826749
yup, that's absolutely right! well except for the gpt comment, that was just personal advice and I wasn't being rhetorical
anyone who wants to see the actual argument laid out can read Suvorov's book which goes into a lot more depth than I'm willing or even able to do right now. I'm actually doing other things at the same time and this isn't my job or anything lol. I just saw someone mention Hitler supporters and the invasion of Russia in an unrelated context and half-jokingly offered to weigh in. if you want to criticize the arguments that Suvorov makes in the book for our enlightenment then I'd be happy to read them but I'm not going to present them here

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>>42826543
We're not beating the paradox player -> tranny pipeline allegations

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>>42826970
I'm not a paradox player or a tranny but that made me smile, have a Hitler Santa

>>42826904
It is fine to outsource the argument to Suvorov while declining to summarize or defend the core claims. But to be clear: Saying “read the book” is not an argument, it’s a referral. That said, nothing new is being introduced here. Suvorov’s core claim is that the Red Army was deployed offensively and that Stalin intended to strike in 1941. The rebuttal has already been offered to both of these claims: no documentary evidence of a finalized invasion order or approved operational timetable has been found in the archives, including post-1991 Soviet materials. If that rebuttal is wrong, then the only move is to point to the specific archival document that demonstrates imminent intent. Otherwise there’s really nothing further to discuss

>>42826637
>I got pushback for my dumb bullshit, please feel bad for me
No

>>42827007
>the only move is to point to the specific archival document that demonstrates imminent intent. Otherwise there’s really nothing further to discuss
uh well that's not what Suvorov said, he said that even though there was no official documentation that the offensive posture of the soviet forces was apparent from the observable facts of their deployment. maybe u read the book! or maybe just the unz post by unz, it's only 4,000 words :)

>>42829313
You are ignoring literally every argument and piece of evidence that’s already dismantled his conjecture, while continuing to reassert the same debunked claims and insist upon his book. You just want a soapbox and to shill a book, and I will not be replying anymore, sorry.

>>42830468
>I will not be replying anymore, sorry.
no need to apologize for that. I didn't mean to "ignore" anything you wrote, but the contrary evidence posted ITT definitely doesn't "dismantle" Suvorov's theory or "debunk" the claim that the Russians were preparing to invade. I mean, it is a speculative theory, yes, and there's definitely evidence against it. and you presented that evidence well. I didn't feel the need to address it line by line because honestly I think the evidence you posted is valuable. but we can both see that you underlined the same final argument twice, which is the lack of a "finalized invasion order". it's a fair point but you might be aware that if a lack of a an archived official order is a strong enough evidentiary basis to totally disregard allegations like that, then there's a pretty significant alleged incident in WWII that we might also assume didn't happen and I think you know what I'm referring to lol
whether one thinks the de facto deployment of Russian forces in 1941 constitutes stronger evidence than the lack of a (declassified) documentary trail in the Soviet archives is a matter of judgment, judgment of things like: how trustworthy do we find the statements of both parties overall, how damning is the actual material evidence of Russian offensive posture, etc. I have my own judgments of most of those external factors which are obviously different from yours. and as for the material question of the Russian deployment itself, well whether it constitutes "proof of an imminent strike" or merely "contingencies for possible future deployments" is the subject of the entire book (and much shorter unz essay summary).
I really wouldn't reply to this, I'm not obsessed with getting the last word in or anything but to be honest I am kind of hurt by this running implication that I'm being intellectually dishonest by virtue of not agreeing with your view of the evidence

>>42824949
the conditions aren't optimal so contact scenario never occured, media post a made up trawman version of trannies and people see it and eat it up, actual trannies hang out with other trannies or go stealth due to trasphobia, average guy rarely sees a real troon as the end result.
>Trans people were placed in media across all platforms and basically controlled the narrative for many years, they could set the conditions any way they wanted because even the slightest resistance was shouted down.
this never happened, the media was polarized the whole time. dailymail and shit was always transphobic and youtube and tiktok ARE media. people were exposed to two fictional narratives instead of real people and one won.

there's a lot of transphobes who turn into allies the instant their friend troons out or they're forced to hang with one irl cause they just didn't expect them to be a person so i'd say it somewhat works irl.

>>Anime and otaku culture wasn't exactly optimal but it helped ease lingering racial/cultural tensions between Americans and Japanese
feel like the tensions got worse since giganormies started watching shonenslop during covid, lots of racism that wasn't there in the 10s

>>42825241
>>But trans people do not "simply wish to be left alone". Trans visibility as a concept contradicts that mindset. If they truly wished to "simply be left alone" then total assimilation and stealth would be the goal (like it was in prior decades, when trans people were mostly just seen as a medical oddity rather than an existential threat).
if gays simply wish to be left alone then total assimilation and looking straight would be the goal (like it was in prior decades, when faggotry was simply seen as a weird fetish you do at home rather than an existential threat), instead they demand people not to harass them for exposing children to sex by holding hands in public and mentioning having a boyfriend

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You guys are getting media rep?
t. Black gayden

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>>42825555
i'll have you know i woke up extremely depressed and triggered (bad notification) but seeing your massive wehraboo essay made me cheer up and reminded me why i like browsing 4chan in the first place

>>42832592
oh it wasn't that massive. I'm really just gesturing to work done by a Russian military historian. but cheers nonetheless, polite sage for off-topic post