>>23751479
On my first watch I had this feeling, that the sortie-per-episode rule really detracted from the human drama and prevented them from being able to portray the political situation to the audience in a way that makes the plot function. So much relies on ellipsis and implication.

But on my second watch I got the opposite impression regarding the fights happening every episode. It became something that highlighted the real desperation of their situation on the Argama. It created tension and the frequent device of people disobeying the clearly-in-their-interests "don't sortie you don't know how to pilot you are a small retarded child/woman" actually functioned to show how fucked the AEUG was strategically. It served to characterize why the AEUG was in a desperate position, barely held together by 2 aces and a competent captain, with everyone else suicidal or retarded.

I think the imposition of military hierarchy in the beginning is first, when the AEUG is small time, barely able to do reconnaissance in force, before the AEUG is treated as a major threat, flanked from all sides and reduced to just the Argama in a death march from colony to colony trying to hold shit together. They don't have the personnel or discipline, particularly aboard the Argama. The AEUG is too small a paramilitary force to actually do the things that Wong and Bright would have done, and Wong ends up getting a lot of their forces and supplies wasted.

When they lose a pilot like Roberto they don't really replace him ever. That's not normal for an army. Now it doesn't really make sense that there's no ability for bridge staff to stop a mobile suit from launching from the dock, but if it can be activated before launch, it would just fuck up the dock and ship when the pilots have tantrums.

The breakdowns in discipline and the inability to enforce basic discipline or to just space Rosamia are reflections of the fact that the AEUG is a shit military org.

>>23751519
To a certain extent I agree. I think for instance 0079 really did manage to convey this feeling of desperation for the White Base.
In Zeta I still think it's kind of schizophrenic how they treat the subject: AEUG is supposed to be an independent force in the beginning, but somehow they manage to corner the Titans as things go on, and there's this whole on-and-off thing with Neo-Zeon... It was really difficult for me to figure out how big the organization was, or how strong they were, especially because in the last battles there's really a lot of people joining in. They are somehow winning but also get there by being more and more disorganized?
I still believe so much more could have been said if there wasn't the need to have robots fight every week. It gets especially confusing when the battle scenarios are explained in the first 20 seconds of the episodes, and then hinted at where they'll move next in the last 20s. Especially towards the end, each episode ends with Bright telling what they'll do next, you barely have time to register it and the ending starts (I may be particularly slow on this btw).

this whole read reads like bots and influences my opinion on how seriously to write a reply. OP do you have autism or is this a bot thread

>durr ur posts are long so u must be... le ai! or le retarded!! XD
this is the only remotely high effort thread on the board with actually interesting posts and you come in here to waste everyone's time with that garbage post. kill yourself faggot.

>blogpost
>high effort
>interesting
lmao

>>23752565
I am not a bot anon, and I don't have autism to my knowledge. I am 35, I like to read and write and I usually hang out on /lit/. I'm currently unemployed so I'm spending a lot of time in here. I like robot anime a lot, and old UC Gundam always gave me a lot to think about. I think that discussion on /m/ is genuinely better than on most boards, including often /lit/, in that mecha are an actual niche interest and people in here tend to be nicer and want to talk about this.
It's very weird because when I first started using the internet in my teens, it used to be a place where discussing things at length with strangers used to be the norm. It's how lot of people my age developed their tastes and got into very specific things. My first experiencing were very long commentposts on anime boards, then on literature forums and so on. It's a bit sad that now all discussion seems to boil down to sharing memes and mirroring other people's behaviour to show you're participating in a global social game.
I like reading other anon's opinions when they articulate them. Like >>23751519 is just talking about his personal impressions but he offered me a different perspective that I didn't think about. This is cool for me. It's the nice part of being online.

compared to every other shit thread on this board this is high-effort, who cares if they include some personal details to give context as to why they are even making the thread? why don't you post this shit in that terrible hamanwank thread starting with a shit ESL green text joke rather than shit on a thought-out post trying to stimulate discussion?

I agree with you entirely OP, I find that Zeta has really great pacing in the first half and manages to keep up a great frantic energy as you are reintroduced to the future of 0079 and what's changed but the second half spins its wheels meaninglessly and feels incredibly formulaic. I don't mind having to shove in a robot fight every episode but it genuinely felt like the wheels were just spinning and the plot stopped progressing until they went down to Dakar. Even worse, they repeat the Four storyline again several times when her arc was perfectly resolved in the first half, and Kamille's development had already been achieved by that arc. It's incredible how the moment the OP changes the show gets worse, and it's almost reflected in the second OP being more relaxed and melancholic when compared to the upbeat first OP.
Of course there are a few issues present through all of Zeta, like Jerrid being the classic annoying jobber type character that every Gundam so annoyingly needs to include, and the Titans being exceedingly one-dimensional villains even compared to Zeon in the first series, who lived in a castle that Dr. Hell might find too gaudy and obvious. But plotwise the first half is so well-paced you can overlook that and just enjoy the wild ride.
For my money, 0079 is easily better than Zeta. Hell, even the animation is arguably better than Zeta's, considering you have Kanada and Itano animating it and the choreography makes every battle interesting.

>>23752928
0079 is honestly better in many ways also for me, but Zeta had so much potential and genuinely put some effort into developing some themes put forward in 0079. Plus, Kamille's arc from pure autistic child into an adult capable of empathy is one of my favorite things in the UC.
I do agree that repeating the Four arc was a mistake, especially the second time with Rosamia, all the more because the episodes where she first connects with Kamille are so powerful - and also a very nice change compared to the Amuro-Lalah "destined love" that doesn't happen, in that Kamille-Four does happen and she's the archetypical turbo-toxic gf with mental problems you have to manage to even keep her alive. No idea how Tomino managed to portray this kind of relationship in 40 years ago - maybe I'm just projecting.
I didn't mind Jerid, I thought there was potential for a very intense final fight once both he and Kamille killed their respective girlfriends. But he basically does nothing of relevance after joining Scirocco, except dying. Yazan was another great character who really served as a prototype for many war-obssessed guys (Gym Ginganham) who was very underused, and could have had a real contrast with "pacifist" Kamille, especially towards the end, as they had potentially contrasting philosophies. Scirocco also felt very underdeveloped as a character - he basically sorties two or three times and then dies. No idea what his philosophy was besides gaining more power.
Reccoa ended up being one of the few characters together with Kamille who had a readable arc, and after finding her erratic on the first watch, this second time I thought her story was very touching.

>>23752908
Thanks op. It just read as some of that style so i didn't want to write out a longer reply if so
It's been awhile since I've watched Zeta but one thing that I do agree with you on is, even though I really adore zeta, I do think that a lot of the middle drags. I found that I paid less attention and remembered significantly less of the middle portion's smaller details compared to the larger plot beats. Zeta had a rather strong start and a very strong ending. One thing I think about is I didn't really understand why they split four and rosamia. Tomino decided to continue this stereotype of a quickly met woman who then holds so much plot significance before dying. I feel like they could have gone with both of them as the same character and then when Camille loses that character it's so much more tragic because there is both more time and emotions spent evolving the love interest to a character who has more impact to Kamille rather than quickly killing off four and going straight to Rosamia. I understand why they chose this specific way of showing two characters but I'm left not really understanding how Rosamia became so relevant. Before I get people shitting on me I know she's suppose to contrast with four and Kamille is shown to care for her enabling his further breakdown so when she's gone/betrays there is a list of people who he feels he failed. I can also write several different interpretations of her depending on how i want to approach her arc but i'll move on
1/2

>>23753167
2/2
She inserts herself into the plot and everybody just seemingly goes along with it due to her circumstances.
Although, I will say I don't necessarily agree that the writing was better in the first series. I felt like it was around the same. Tomino has issues with the pacing in the middle of all his series. it almost feels to me like he starts off very strong with his fresh idea, and then falters to rush through that middle portion to get where he wants the climax and ending to be. This seems to be consistent with each series that he's written even beyond gundam, and why I feel like in each series of his he has a strong start. To which i then feel like I barely pay attention in the middle. The gundam novels for example are around 50-60% of the final arc to 0079. The ending is always good and worth the wait. Now I will say, the first series, since it was canceled they did have to rush to cut some things. I always wondered if the early ending made the series more condensed and thus stronger with the writing since they didn't have an extra 10 to 30 episodes to stretch out the plot.

>>23752908
I'll do a 3/2 to respond to this though, I only asked because unfortunately a lot of places have succumbed to LLM and there is a specific style that seem to be common with them which are also common in neurodivergent people. A lot of these LLM scraped their content from older forums, writing, and places like 4chan so it all reads very much the same. There is also a try hard schizo that sometimes appears who likes to spout vitrol towards zeta specifically. The last thing i want to do is give real effort and continue a conversation with the first two, as the unfortunate third type, real discussion, is often caught in the crosshairs at least nowadays, hence my wondering.

>>23753167
I must apologise for I am >>23752725 and I mistook your intentions and thought you were just shitting up the board and discouraging OP and others from making higher-effort posts like this by accussing said OP of being a bot or autistic.
One thing I've never understood is why people say Zeta's ending is good. It's not quite as bad as ZZ's where Haman kills herself for no reason and Judau fucks off forever after reuniting with Leina for five seconds, despite spending a good chunk of the second half looking for her, but I've never particularly liked it even when I considered myself a fan of Gundam and the series. It doesn't feel natural, it's as if Tomino thought "well I've got to introduce a new cast in ZZ so I have to kill off everyone else despite them having plot armour for the entire series and never being in any real danger". And then they are unnaturally killed off as if it were spring cleaning and you were throwing away clothes that don't fit or something. And while certainly tragic, Kamille's mindrape from Scirocco somewhat ruined my sense of disbelief. It's easily the most powerful newtype display in the series until the Axis Shock, but I buy the Axis Shock much easier because there were probably hundreds of people pushing back and resonating with Amuro's psycoframe. Outside of that, it just doesn't feel that definitive knowing that ZZ is right about to happen again and Neo-Zeon is still a major player. I'd like to hear what you actually like about the ending, because I've never seen why people enjoy it.

>>23752928
>Kanada
he didn't work on it, Yas chased him away.

>>23753541
He did key animation on six episodes.

>>23753560
Kanada's style and quirks didn't mesh with Yas, so he 'corrected' and re-did his and pretty much everybody's work single handedly (this prompted Kanada to leave the production). It was a large workload that cause Yas to develop fatigue and get hospitalized.

>>23753578
Yes that's why he was involved up until Episode 32, well into the last stretch of the series. I know there's some deranged spammer obsessed with Yas and I'm sure you are that loser, I don't give a fuck and I don't particularly even like Yas either but I have not heard this rumour even once in my entire time of being a mecha fan. Fuck off you deranged faggot.

>>23753228
For me, like many things in Zeta, the general idea of the ending is good. To have everyone dying at the end after so many stupid sorties, and the final battle with Scirocco are good ideas in my opinion - especially the latter, because Kamille is growing towards becoming a pacifist but as a last act of this realization goes on to kill yet another person (Katz saying that maybe also Scirocco can join their souls is the real heavy line there). It's as if the last kill of the war destroys his mind - or as if Tomino wanted to say: to be this kind of human (a full pacifist, a newtype who truly understands others fully) is the same as losing your mind.
However, the ideas are once again marred by horrible pacing and by the fact that it all happens in two episodes. If he had distributed the deaths more evenly in the last 5/6 episodes, or generally through the second half, it would have been more of a slow burn and conflict could have been explored a bit better...
On the other hand, this amount of casualties is what you would expect from a big desperate final battle. So I don't know, there's also the aspect of conveying desperation through portraying constant robot fights, which I think is a real attempt by Tomino, as the other anon was saying

>>23753600
Sorry I add something else: this sums up pretty much all of my impressions of Tomino's work. On the one hand I can see genuine good ideas and a genuine attempt to look at people which I don't find on other anime; on the other hand everything is packaged into a poorly animated, poorly directed and poorly written cartoon.
The qualities of this poor animation, direction and writing keep shifting every time I rewatch his stuff: they seem alternatively to be flaws in the execution of his vision, and to be ways in which he manages to convey it.
In this sense (Tomino's) Gundam seems to me to be so prescient of our current media landscape. In cinema, manga, anime, movies we are full of great ideas that are poorly executed, or get twisted by dynamics internal to the production (schedules, lack of money, necessity to push agendas, necessity to sell etc.). Anime in general are often like this, but Tomino's really embody this twisted relation with production necessitie - and somehow turn it in his favour, at least partly.
I think a lot about his interviews about Miyazaki, and saying that Miyazaki is an auteur and an artist, while he'll never be. Miyazaki in this context always seemed weirdly conservative: he and Takahata have an old, european conception of free artistry and creativity that doesn't seem to find a place in today's world, and that has been completely choked by capitalistic modes of production/selling of media products such as anime. Anime are mostly things to be mass produced and sold - they can be "art" in the high sense, of course, just like comic books, but this is more and more rare.
Tomino, to me, seems to be (involuntarily) pointing at ways in which creativity can hijack this system of mass production and shifting it towards great ideas from within. Maybe it's just a massive cope, but I genuinely think some ideas in Gundam - newtype "philosophy" especially, the need for empathy, a certain tragic vision of war - are aging better and better.

>>23753590
I don't hate Yas retard. I had read a blog about early anime layouts that had this little tidbit.

>>23753600
I like that aspect of the final battle with Scirocco, and I like that Kamille has to sacrifice himself essentially to defeat him. That's something I generally love in mecha anime, they do it in Tekkaman Blade which is my favourite anime of all time, and even IBO does it and it's one of the few things I actually like about that series. My issue was with the believablity of it, I just think it's too ridiculous even within the confines of UC Gundam where psychic shit like newtypes actually exists.
I agree with you that it would be better if the final conflict lasted longer so the character deaths were better spaced out. Yes, I know a final battle would result in more casualties than normal, but the fact is that these characters have been deploying in sorties every single episode and have been virtually impervious to harm up until this final episode. I know there's a bit of a stigma around it but I think Muv-Luv Alternative is a better example of how to do it. You know these characters aren't safe because you've seen what happened to Marimo much earlier in the story and the rest of the Valkyrie squad over the last few sorties, so when the main heroines start dying at the end it feels less like clearing a path for a new cast and more like a final last ditch effort to defeat the BETA which costs everyone their lives.

I should read all these posts in detail but I liked the ending, everything Kamille went through was so fucking miserable from start to finish, that - recalling what some other anon said at some point - it probably didn't take that much of a push from Scirocco for Kamille's mind to break. This is an inevitable and depressing outcome of a child soldier. It's a bit incredulous that Scirocco was more powerful than Kamille and whatever miracle biosensor that the Zeta had, enough to will him into reverting to a child, sure, but if I, a miserable viewer watching a cartoon, was so heartbroken after Zeta where I gladly welcomed the cheery and light-heartedness of ZZ immediately after, then the poor kid actually in said cartoon probably wasn't having a great time either.
I wish the best for my beloved characters but sometimes sad endings are really great, man. The movies' ending is pleasant as far as said characters go, but it doesn't feel appropriate either.

nigga why are you evaluating a seminal 1986 real robot anime through the lens of modern anime? it's not meant to be easy to follow. tomino was trying to break new ground to advance your animated toy commercials. you think reagan and the cia's military operations followed a perfect and coherent narrative? ever watched a james bond movie?

>>23753624
they made sense b/c they started dueling to the death after the colony laser was fired, which ended the war and any pretext/excuses for their crashouts...

>>23754197
>how dare people discuss zeta!!!
Do you actually have anything to contribute, you worthless shitposting subhuman?

>>23754417
refute any one of my points before I start posting kamille judau yaoi

Rosamia's arc felt like a complete waste of time in the show, it wasn't until UC Engage that they finally managed to make me give a shit about her.

>>23752940
my biggest question is why did tomino need to put like 5 lalah deaths in the sequel. rosamia and four were pretty bad mind control victims yea, to the extent fa gave a speech that cyber newtypes aren't people b/c you can't just fuck with ppl's heads. tomino definitely knew about this happening irl, so it's yet another thing to incorporate into gundam

>>23754494
Rosamina is the worst zeta girl and those who have her as their gundam waifu are SHIT
Just like Rosamina

>>23754483
You didn't make a point, you made a retarded schizophrenic shitpost and now you're threatening to destroy the thread with more shitposting that will just get you banned. Fuck off.

>>23754494
>>23754618
Feels like it was a retread of Four's arc and I think everyone including Kamille knew it, so I took that to be what was intended by the show of just "ffs this nightmare is happening again, please help can't we stop this"

>>23755127
I sort of felt like it in Four's case Char and Amuro weren't all that interested in stopping it and then took an emotional hit when Four died.

Haven't watched the show in a long time so I might be off though.

>>23754483
Tochiro, take your meds.

>>23755191
Iirc they were both morosely aware and self-aware of the situation and then it hit them miserably hard when literally the identical thing from the last time happened again

>>23755205
https://youtu.be/Rpo253tMolk?t=150

Not trying to say they weren't aware, but they sort of distanced themselves from it. Something about Amuro talking about people making the same mistakes, like he was totally uninvolved rubbed me the wrong way. Not trying to say it was his fault, but I think its the same kind of frustration that characters had with Char poorly?(Char isn't even his real name) hiding his identity. It probably wasn't going to go well no matter what, but the people around them needed them to step up. Char admitting to his more well known fake identity felt like there was some sort of acceptance that he needed to be something more than a pilot.

>>23755356
Not quite sure why they didn't step in, aside from giving Kamille some advice, maybe it was like how you don't really interfere with kids fighting since it's their own shit to sort out. Which isn't a great principle when lives are on the line? Maybe they had decision paralysis and genuinely didn't know what to even do?
>don't get too close to that pilot, you'll hurt yourself
>don't distance yourself to that pilot, she's a person who needs saving too
or maybe they felt that it wasn't their place to save lives, or fifty other reasons for them to beat themselves up over this, I couldn't tell you.

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reason is along with colony drops, cyber newtypes were shitting on the idea of advancing humanity before and after char's dakar speech. char didn't really have a comeback to kamille giving up and saying nothing ever happens. everyone sort of assumed contolism/zeonism was the political solution and let char handle it

>>23755362
they couldn't do jack shit about it. kamille only survived the psycho gundams b/c he was their romantic interests. kamille was the one in decision paralysis both times

>>23755387
>b/c he was their romantic interests
Char and Amuro's??
>kamille was the one in decision paralysis both times
Fair. Poor guy...

>>23755409
Poor guy? Kamille a shit with a girl's name.

>>23755411
Ok Jerid, tell the missus I said hi
Ffs Jerid didn't deserve any of those women

>>23755362
>don't get too close to that pilot, you'll hurt yourself
I think Amuro was closer to something along those lines and I can't think of what Char said. Its reasonable enough advice, but I wouldn't expect a kid to listen especially the kind that would join AEUG. Trying to help Four is really irrational, but on the other had its sort of thing that Char and Amuro needed to happen.

>fifty other reasons for them to beat themselves up over this, I couldn't tell you.
I took it as them thinking of themselves as pilots and not really wanting to be more than that.

>>23755414
amuro was right, fa was also right, they knew enough about how fucked up cyber newtypes are to tell kamille to not get emotionally attached to his government-appointed gfs who want to love him to death. it's perfectly understandable

>>23755414
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yVxRSjsvNc&t=2m53s
Char's trying to be helpful while being distant and Kamille is understandably a bit hostile
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yVxRSjsvNc&t=15m44s
Then later he tells people that you can still try to save people while fighting
I don't know, I think it speaks more about Char than it is help to Kamille.
>Trying to help Four is really irrational
It's irrational but sort of the goodness and idealism and hope that Char and Amuro still saw value in, yeah
>I took it as them thinking of themselves as pilots and not really wanting to be more than that.
Guys
>>23755380
>>23755433
Also aren't "cyber newtypes" actually just "artificial humans"

>>23755412
Having the women were well-earned and deserved.

>>23755468
Yeah, on opposite day

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>>23755466
yes and the zeta novels go into detail on the process of how they're made. they mkultra them and dump them on kamille

>>23755466
>Char's trying to be helpful while being distant
char is destroyed, everything he ever did or stood for is getting raped and four bothers him because he genuinely cares, being a newtype carrying out his dad's will. char's like whatever kid go kill your soulmate and chugs half a bottle of jack daniels

char's best career move was becoming june kock aka cinco benis and trying to fuck roux. that made up for all his blunders/sins committed under casval deikun, edward mass, char aznable, quadro vaginas. idk why he quit that to commit even bigger sins in his real name. never drink whiskey

>>23755594
They have debilitating issues which makes them sometimes a bit annoying, but holy shit did they have it bad.
>>23755614
>bothers him because he genuinely cares
Well that too, he's in his best state as Quattro and that hard regression in CCA is a tragedy but also an absolute beauty to watch. Being too broken to care anymore is a hell of a break. Even though like, why didn't you check on Kamille ever, for years? Were you just too sad?
>>23755634
What

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>>23755650
char prolly thought kamille would be better without him, in fact he splits up with him during zeta when he says young people need to live and decide the future or something like that. their relationship was strictly quattro and kamille. kinda sucks to say goodbye like that but it makes sense with how warped things got. he relinquishes responsibility over the kid. now, during CCA, char thinks he's still the hero (and he is) and is pretty much done in the same way haman was at the end of ZZ. he decides to use his UC main character Trump Hitler Caesar status to its logical conclusion. he wants you to believe he's come here to laugh at you. char's not really thinking, he's lived long enough to become the villain and wants to influence humanity so you don't get someone like iron mask bragging about being a cuckold while reducing the human population to georgia guidestone levels. anyway gyunei was the true villian of CCA and char did nothing wrong

>>23755433
>amuro was right, fa was also right
Really depends on how instrumental the cyber newtype's intervention in the fight with Scirocco was supposed to be. Trying to salvage their mental health was beyond Kamille's capabilities, but may have helped them find peace in death.

>it's perfectly understandable
Didn't say it wasn't.

>>23755702
>gyunei was the true villian of CCA
What did the kid even do wrong to cause such hatred with gundam fans everytime they bring him up? He's a soldier, he did his job. Muh pedo? He's a teenager, liking another teenager. At worst, he's one of many characters in gundam reflecting Char's negative traits. At best, he protected Quess and tried to warn her (for selfish reasons but still), since other adults either ignored her or enabled her

>>23755899
gyunei is weak, wrong on everything, wanted to take char's place and teen gf (space has no age of consent fuck off zoomers) undeservidly and his combat skills give me the ick. nigga just takes hostages like you're not gonna get slapped the fuck out and thank god he was. calls char a lolicon out of jealousy when quess is the papacon for him. just an all around ugly character in the same tier as hathaway and katz

>>23755913
Char's dicksucker-chan...
>nigga just takes hostages like you're not gonna get slapped the fuck out and thank god he was
Amuro is enemy, do you find a way to kill your enemy or not?
>calls char a lolicon out of jealousy
Doesn't make him any less wrong, Char's dicksucker-chan. With a mindset like Char, it's inevitable he will want to fuck a loli who could have been his mother, Quess "luckily" wasn't dicked down by Char because she didn't appeal to his fetish. Are you aware of how shameless he is? People in Neo Zeon gossiped about him might be a pedo, and Char literally proved their suspicion by bringing a teen girl back with him from Londenion.

>>23755928
my personal opinion is more canon than anything tomino said in an interview

fa yuiry says: total cyber newtype death

>>23754494
I felt that the Rosamia episodes were far more interesting than the Four episodes personally.

>>23755968
Major bellcurve here
Idiots: Newtypes don't exist
Midwits: Newtypes are the next stage of human evolution
Geniuses like Fa: Newtypes don't exist

>>23756674
no one denies newtypes exist, it's a matter of whether they're a political solution or a solution to anything really. haman and kamille say no, scirocco thinks he's ruler of the unwashed masses, char wants it to be true but doesn't believe

and amuro reversed the cause and effect, he sees newtypes as the result of a political awakening

>>23756791
Dumber than Char.

>>23756787
Fa basically says there's no such thing as oldtypes - just people that haven't yet awakened to their full potential. Therefore there is also no such thing as newtypes. They are all the same human species.
Besides, it's seemingly official Federation policy that newtypes don't exist, Jamaican and Jerid both express this view in Zeta (despite the latter eventually becoming one), and we have a very explicit example from GQuX with Shiiko.

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>>23756787
>no one denies newtypes exist
You forgot about /ourguy/ straight up blinking away his newtype awakening

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My husband.

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>>23751519
>the human drama

I really like Fa Yuiry. I think she's probably the best 'girlfriend' type character in a Gundam that I can think of.

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>>23757342
>>My husband.
He's coming for you.

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>>23757709
For me, it's Rain Mikamura

>>23757110
>there's no such thing as oldtypes, only people who are oldtypes

>>23757572
destroyed

Learn how to condense your statements. 90% of what you write is pointless. Brevity, wit, etc.

ANT was better desu.
It cut the unnecessary fat, added a bit more nuance to certain characters and had stronger direction. Changes do make it a different work to a degree, but they don't make it a worse one.

>>23757932
>there's no such thing as oldtypes, only people who are oldtypes
What Fa is saying is more like "there's no such thing as people that can't use computers and people that can use computers, there's just people, and they all have the possibility of using computers. Therefore, there's no such thing as a person who is intrinsically either able or unable to use computers"
To try and make a metaphor with something that exists irl

>>23758091
Yeah, you can always be put on drugs and become an enhanced human psychic.
Newtypes as a separate species evolved from humans don't exist and psychic abilities isn't a spacen*id specific trait.

>>23757316
smart move for yazan desu, he's automatically immune to most newtypes and their bullshit. just goes for the kill and asks questions later. that's how he survived

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>>23758295
It is definitely a manouver

>>23757957
This. Horrible writing and most likely just Zeta rager putting his shit into chatgbt

Sieben Cloaca

>>23757957
>>23758900
>durrr poast 2 long XD my time iz 2 valuable evn doe i browze da chinz XD
>durrrr zetarager out of le nowhere! XD
You faggots are a cancer on this board, slit your fucking throats. Don't come into the only thread with legitimate discussion on this godforsaken board.

>>23759345
Coming to 4chan for serious discussion is like going to Arby's for a Michelin star meal.

>>23759353
This mindset is exactly why you are a cancer on this board. Hang yourself.

>>23759363
You mad?

>>23751479
yes, Zeta is godawful
Char is awful
Newtype supernatural bullshit is awful

>>23759345
The writing is terrible and repeats itself over and over again. Zeta isn’t close to perfect but there are autistic fags like you shitting up the board.

>>23759492
0079 is all about newtypes by the end anyway. You are upset about something that’s always been apart of gundam. KYS

>>23759497
Are you actually retarded? This is the only non-shit thread on the board because it's filled with actual discussion. I have said my piece earlier in the thread and I am simply telling fuckheads like you to stop shitting up the thread by attacking people for no reason, like you are now. What the fuck does your post have to do with mine anyway?

char is the best character. whine more about newtypes, my boy did nothing wrong

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>>23759569
Char is balding and everyone who wants to have sex with him should feel bad about themselves.

>>23759608
>>23751479
I want to have sex with Jerid.

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>>23759616
See at least that guy has a nice full head of hair.

>>23759544
Faggot if you think that post is discussion then you are insane. It’s a block of text filled with basic misunderstandings of the series.

0079s animation being better than Zetas? Legit delusional take. Yas doesn’t even appear in the last 3rd of 0079 and the show looks the worst the original UC trilogy ever has. No one cares about blog posting kill yourself

>>23759794
This. It sounds like the guy wants to make a three hour youtube video, but came here instead. I would love to have a discussion about stuff, but reading a wall of text about your opinions isn't how you start a discussion.

>>23759794
>Faggot if you think that post is discussion then you are insane. It’s a block of text filled with basic misunderstandings of the series.
Okay cocksucker then fucking point out your issues rather than impotently bitching with snide one-sentence remarks. If you were concerned about wasting your time you wouldn't be on 4chan talking about 80s mecha anime so might as well post something interesting or post a rebuttal so a discussion can start.
>0079s animation being better than Zetas? Legit delusional take. Yas doesn’t even appear in the last 3rd of 0079 and the show looks the worst the original UC trilogy ever has.
Why is it "delusional" to argue that Kanada and Itano, some of the most beloved animators in anime, did some quality work on 0079? There are plenty of scenes with more fluid and dynamic action than what is on display in Zeta. Zeta looks more modern because of the updated artstyle but the actual quality of animation, especially during fight scenes, is lower. The fights are stiff and extremely repetitive. The action choreography is far better in 0079, this isn't an opinion.
>No one cares about blog posting kill yourself
I would rather read a blogpost about an anon's thoughts on a series than another fucking Haman worship or Puru thread where it's just cumbrained SEAsians jerking off and ERPing. Hell, they're in this thread too if you notice this fucking faggot Charwanking bullshit between our posts. If you prefer those threads, then go stay in those threads; just know that if you do, you are legitimately the worst cancer on this website and you should die.

>>23759811
Why don't you actually contribute then, instead of whining like a little faggot and offering nothing of substance?

>>23758299
yazan is the only UC character badass enough to have an oldtype awakening

>>23760012
>fucking faggot Charwanking bullshit
hate to break it to you but charwanking is canon. his celebrity status is the most powerful force in the UC. idk how you genwunner amurofags explain this away

>>23759811
Who's a favourite in Zeta as a character and who's a favourite as a person

>>23760012
>Why is it "delusional" to argue that Kanada and Itano, some of the most beloved animators in anime, did some quality work on 0079? There are plenty of scenes with more fluid and dynamic action than what is on display in Zeta. Zeta looks more modern because of the updated artstyle but the actual quality of animation, especially during fight scenes, is lower. The fights are stiff and extremely repetitive. The action choreography is far better in 0079, this isn't an opinion.

For every great fight scene in 0079 you have floaty weight less action in a lot of the episodes. The duel with Ramba Ral is tied in with G defender episodes looking worse than basically 90% of what Zeta had to offer. As posted above Kanada’s input in 0079 is overblown in your posts (or whoever the anon is that stated this). A lot of the episodes are not some heavily choreographed fight scenes. I love Yas and his work in general but Zeta was an upgrade visually as a TV anime. Space combat uses a lot of angels and they start to input mobile suits moving in weightless space far better than 0079, which has space battles existing mostly in a dark void. Zeta has them fighting in abandoned ships and going inside/outside of colonies mid episode.

Zeta post Four does have a dip in visual quality but it spikes back up fairly quickly. The Psycho Gundam Mk 2 is a fast paced well animated fight that truly uses the terrain around it. Compare that to the Zeong fight where the location feels irrelevant until the final beam shots in the hallway.

https://youtu.be/-mpJEq2LIuQ?si=t0oZchhNbNW9O5-_

This video gets posted all the time but it’s a good showing of a visual flair Zeta was able to achieve via having a bigger budget/team. Yas was able to flex his skill more in the films and in general I prefer the pulp inspired look of 0079. But to act like a series where multiple episodes had animators dying working on it (and it shows) over Zeta just doesn’t work in reality.

>>23760285
Cont.

0079 fucked up with how many mobile armors are fought. The black Tri stars are cool because you see how Amuro deals with 3 elite pilots at once and you get a dope action scene of him flipping around them. Then you get square blocky and visually uninteresting fights like Bigrio or even Braw Braw. The Psycho gundam for instance wastes Hong Kong in its first appearance and has a dynamic chase with Kamille because they made it change forms.

>>23760282
Kamille. He’s one of the most interesting anime protagonists ever in my opinion. Zeta is worth watching for him alone. No anime character has focused on the specific insecurities and interpersonal issues he has in Zeta. What he has to offer the medium is much more interesting than the 1000th thread talking about “well the Rosamia arc wasn’t that good.”

>>23760282
Not the guy from earlier in the thread, but Jerid is seriously my favourite character in Zeta. I think people like him probably exist in every war. It's an excellent realisation from the team that they couldn't just do Char again for the rival character, they had to approach it from a different angle, and having Jerid basically degrade from a confident braggart that looks down on Kamille as a child, to an obsessive, hateful husk of a person who is desperately trying to make the deaths of all his comrades mean something when it so clearly doesn't, is very compelling. More or less everyone that actually spends time with Jerid outside of the battlefield likes him, and he gets more than a few humanising scenes. He's consistently an excellent pilot when he isn't fighting Kamille as well, further showing how he has let this hatred destroy the one thing he is actually good at.
As a person, Kamille and Fa are quite easy to like. Same for Apolly, Astonaige, and Quattro in his chill scenes.

>>23760285
Yeah but the problem with Zeta is that the fights are incredibly stiff. Even in that video, the visual fidelity is great and the beams look beautiful, but their movement is limited to just moving around the screen. It's almost like kids moving their toys around, they fly in static poses, shoot, then fly again to juke a counter, shoot again, etc. Yes 0079 had some shit fights as well but basically once they go into space for the final time and reveal Amuro as a newtype the fights are so much more dynamic. I just think it's quite damning of Zeta that its predecessor has better mecha action in spite of five years and dozens of mecha anime being made by the studio and staff since.

>>23760297
>It's an excellent realisation from the team that they couldn't just do Char again for the rival character, they had to approach it from a different angle, and having Jerid basically degrade from a confident braggart that looks down on Kamille as a child, to an obsessive, hateful husk of a person who is desperately trying to make the deaths of all his comrades mean something when it so clearly doesn't, is very compelling.
That is literally the exact same thing as Char. Jerid is the most boring archetype of a Gundam character, the mandatory jobber hyped up as an ace to be a rival to the mc but is never actually a threat and disappears for half the show to "get stronger". It's one of the worst things about Gundam.

>>23760319
No, Char is pursuing his own objectives that have nothing to do with Amuro for the whole story. It's only right at the end that taking down Amuro becomes a priority for him, with some ambiguity as to if it's to achieve his goal for a Newtype paradise, to get revenge for Lalah, or just to prove his superiority.
And when it doesn't work out, Char nonetheless finishes off Kycilia, showing that he still keeps his own goals in mind, not just obsessing over getting back at Amuro.
Jerid is far more of a jobber than Char, and this is necessary for the character arc he undergoes. An inferiority complex is mandatory for him to work as a character. Char never had that, rather the opposite, he still doesn't respect Amuro as an equal at the end, which is why he thinks he can just beat him in a sword fight.
Jerid's devolution is also reflected in his changing mobile suits. He goes from the humanoid Hizack and Galbaldy, to the somewhat warped and bug-like Gabthley, to the totally beastlike Byarlant and Baund Doc - the point is that he's losing his humanity as he gets more and more obsessed with revenge on Kamille.
If you think this is the same as Char I don't know what to tell you.

>>23759353
And "trolling 4chan" as some make their hobby is like pissing all over a public restroom.

>>23760313
If you think those action scenes are “stiff” then I don’t know what to tell you. You had a pretty large bias towards the late 70s style of mecha animation. A large majority of MSG fights are reused animation (dom getting killed by the beam rifle anyone?) or like I said prior just big blocky uninteresting shoot outs with mobile armors. Zeta starts to introduce some level of tactics and actual team battles. The weight is fine in Zeta, in fact MSG is more weightless than anything.

When Yas is animating a saber duel it looks great. But a ton of it is run of the mil low motion mecha fights. You are basically saying because Amuro moves his head in the M’quve duel it’s more impactful than all Zeta fight scenes. Amuro and Kamille fighting together in free fall is another dynamic example for Zeta.

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Is this real?

>>23760494
That's true for all Tomino protags.

>>23760319
Jerid is an actual villain in denial. Kamille actually tries to prevent this by forgiving him for just following orders. It's like Giovanni tasking Jesse and James to kidnap the pikachu ad nauseam. Jerid's life was an open joke, and he basically admits it with his last words.
>You bastard, you're my....
Basically the same as "I hate that hedgehog." Postmodern gold.

>>23760313
>once they go into space for the final time and reveal Amuro as a newtype the fights are so much more dynamic
Some of that was forced animation, like the one where the Gundam was swimming in space. It looked like the animators were just drawing power rangers in power suits instead of mecha. CCA didn't have that, but they put more frames into aiming the rifles, etc than Zeta

>>23760550
>forced animation
What the FUCK does this even mean?

>>23760557
a dude punches someone in the face but his body wriggles around for 20 frames like it's that episode of naruto when it only needs like 5 to convey what the eyes would see in reality. there is no motion in animation. it's an illusion. mechas make even less unnecessary movements than humans. not saying zeta was ideal but they knew to spend the frames on debris, explosions, the mobile suits doing delicate operations like handling humans, etc. for fast moving shootouts it's supposed to be "stiff"

>>23760630
I am almost 40 and I have never watched a single episode of Naruto in my life.

>>23760455
>You had a pretty large bias towards the late 70s style of mecha animation
No, I just have seen the stuff Sunrise made during that period from the late 70s to mid 80s. The only mecha anime with worse fight scenes and animation than Zeta is Dougram. The show immediately prior to Zeta, Layzner, is fucking gorgeous and looks like an OVA on TV, and it too has dynamic fights especially in the second half. I'm not going to excuse dropping the ball on that.

>>23760544
That's not now what it meant at all
Undeterred by the volley, Jerid charged forward, but the Baund Doc’s skirt-like
armor was blown off. “You’re the one who drove me to fight! But even so, I’m not a
murderer like you!”
“A…murderer? I am not a murderer!”
“I’m going to finish you with my own two hands! Once you’re dead, I’ll never have
to kill anyone ever again!”
“Jerid!”
“You should be grateful for this!” Jerid quickly pulled back in order to fire his
scattering beams, but the Z Gundam was faster, and aimed its rifle at the open gap in the
Baund Doc’s armor. “Uwaaah!”
The shot pierced the Baund Doc’s cockpit. Jerid should have died instantly, but
Kamille could still feel his thoughts inside his head.
“Kamille! You were my—”
“Ah…” Even though his whole body was shaking, Kamille was stunned by his own
astounding combat prowess. “Maybe you were right…maybe it would have been better if
I had died instead…”

https://gunbusternovels.wordpress.com/2024/12/18/mobile-zeta-gundam-5/

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>>23760822
Gates chads get in here
Gates wanted to ask Bask how he viewed Rosamia, who was standing next to him.
It was obvious to anyone watching that something wasn’t right. Still…what could I
expect to hear from a man blinded by battle? To Gates Capa, Bask’s mental state was
plain to see. This is what happens when a philistine assumes command! He wanted to
lose his temper, but the greater the stakes of life and death became on a battlefield, the
more unreasonable orders were issued, and people died as a result. It was a part of
human history.
“Go! Go and silence both the AEUG and the Zabi family loyalists in the name of
the Titans!” Bask roared.
“Okay!” Rosamia gave him a breezy reply. She smiled and saluted rhythmically
before turning on her heel and walking out ahead of the other two.
Once again, Gates was reminded of how nice and firm he thought her butt looked
through her normal suit.

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>shows up for 20 episodes
>steals the show and becomes one of the most beloved characters in the franchise
How did this happen?

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>>23760836
>How did this happen?
Is that even a question?

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>>23760840
Zeta has a lot of female characters but none of them have left the impact Haman has had. Even like 40 years later she still has more dedicated fans compared to other female characters like Sayla or Emma.

>>23760822
>Once you’re dead, I’ll never have to kill anyone ever again!
>Once we steal that pikachu we can retire
How is this any different

>>23760857
>Haman gets cucked by Char
>decides to put on a charismatic front and larp out of it
wow it's prototype iron mask

this thread is fucking awful. I don't even know what happened because you can get definitely some good discussions going and it's decently alright for the first quarter.

>>23760936
>i have no argument so ill claim your post is bad

>>23760977
look at the thread. the last 50 posts is almost all shitposting.

>>23761215
tomino is a shitpost kind of guy

>>23760936
It's going to shit but the fact there was an okay discussion was good enough for me. I have nothing more to add, but I wish the faggot Jerrid and Char simps and the annoying Hamanfags would get lost already.

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>>23760836
She's just that good.

>>23760726
Zeta improved on L-gaim’s focus on animating the components of a mecha. Seeing small flaps open and the guts of a suit work. Layzner itself has a ton of QUALITY moments itself too. To suggest it looks better than Zeta is just dishonest.
No layzner doesn’t look like a fucking OVA and plenty of mecha anime have worst animation than Zeta lmfao.


This is why I didn’t take your posts seriously. You think the TV run of Votoms had better animation than Zeta? Or hell even shit like Dunbine? This is so dishonest it’s eye roll worthy. The MK 2 killing the marine Zaku is a throw away shot in a relatively unimportant episode and it looks great. Please actually have something to say other than “it looks bad cause something something vague critique of shot direction” because you are basically stating a big budgeted sequel to GUNDAM was handled by actual retards.

I had a thought, following the whole Newtype soul power thing the Zeta Gundam does at the very end to kill Scirocco, and I want to get some opinions on it. Is the Newtype connection really 'new', or are they just tapping into something that was already there? Is it just an awakening to a form of collective unconscious that was already present in humanity, and the 'Newtype' that Deikum posited was just people able to perceive it?

The idea has been roiling around in my head ever since the bit with Lalah's death in the original show, where she dissolves into Newtype glow or whatever, and the comment Fa makes about there being no such thing as Oldtypes reawakened it. If the 'Newtype Dimension' or all that was there from the start and it's just a question of who awakens to their potential to tap into it, does that mean that, even past death, you have figures influencing the living? That the whole 'people repeating the same mistakes' might be because those that came before drive those who come after to do the same things they did, resulting in the same disasters?

>>23761611
elle says that humans (cavemen) used to have psychic powers
novel implies newtype powers is transmitting and receiving brain waves, when someone dies it's like one big radio transmission

>>23761603
Layzner has barely any quality moments, please actually watch shows before commenting. You can't be calling me dishonest and be saying shit like that. It's easily the best looking 80s show I've seen outside of OVAs like Megazone. While the animation is not necessarily better, VOTOMS had much better action scenes than Zeta at the very least. I only saw half of Dunbine but that show had much more fluid animation and more dynamic action than Zeta as well, at least from what I saw. I don't even like Dunbine, Zeta is definitely a better show, but I would defend that argument that Dunbine looks better.
I get it, it's absurd to imply that Sunrise would put it's weight behind shit like Layzner over something like Zeta, a follow-up to an extremely successful show in 0079. But I really think that's the case here, and my only possible logic is that they knew Zeta was going to be successful so they cut corners on animation. I mean that could be the case, they didn't bring Itano back after he made a name for himself with Macross as an example and Yas wasn't much involved in it either beyond character design afaik.

>>23760857
The power of being a villainess.

KamillexEmma

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>>23765257
if it's not this i aint buying it

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>>23760836
By being the best, of course

>>23760726
>The show immediately prior to Zeta, Layzner,

Zeta started first, you retard. They even overlapped for a couple of months.

I always love how when someone doesn't have an argument, like the poster above, they still feel the need to reply with some trite such as "um ackshullay you got the start time of a 40 year old show slightly wrong!!" as if it has any effect on the point presented. It's the sign of someone being a tourist from Reddit, where it's commonplace to reply with snark and a whole lot of unearned confidence to fish for updoots from the other pea-brained subhumans that browse that website. And really, the spacing gives it away; our little friend above is a Reddit tourist.
I suggest you go back there, champ.