>>23763325
>>Immediately destroys any notion his nation was neutral with said nuking...

You have a terrible memory or speed-watched Seed.

Orb was never "neutral". You forgot that Orb was collaborating with the Earth Alliance to build the original Gundams and Archangel. Both sides had their scientists working on it and Orb provided their own colony for secret research. That's the colony that blew up in the first few episodes.

>>23763325
I mean, it's Seed, you don't watch it for the consistency or logic. As Cagali pointed out when they revealed the M1 Astrays, Orb is a nation of hypocrisy and cowardice, because they only really care about "neutrality" in that they don't want others to tell them what to do and they don't want to get their own hands dirty. They're perfectly willing to kill so long as it's in the name of "self defense," which is the big push behind the G Project and Astray Project. They can't defend themselves and force other nations to avoid them if they don't have their own mobile suit force. And they won't even lift their fingers to help victims of war, or to help stop an actual war, when it's well within their ability to do so.

>>23763336
As I recall, the main Orb government never actually knew about it, it was all the doings of some Astray manga characters who happened to be high-ranking officials in the government. Sort of like how Oliver North was behind Iran-Contra, and Ronald Reagan could officially say that he had no idea yet his administration could still benefit from it.

N jammers are just pure evil.

>>23763351
>it was all the doings of some Astray manga characters
Astray didn't exist when the show first aired. And Director Fukuda said that Astray is not related to his Seed anime since he was not involved in writing it or giving his blessing to the story. The original intent was to show that Orb was not neutral. That's why Cagalli was so upset with her father.

>>23763358
In themselves, nah. In the blanket bombardment method in which they were used, yeah. Probably a war crime, too.

>>23763336
Their motto is literally
>Orb will not attack another nation, will not allow another nation to attack them, and will not intervene in the conflicts of other nations.
That sounds like textbook neutrality to me

>>23763386
Yeah but they intervened in the war via helping develop the Gundam's for EA in exchange for getting the tech themselves. Granted most of Orb weren't aware of this and the general citizenry believed and was proud in their neutrality but still

>>23763386
>and will not intervene in the conflicts of other nations.
Didn't they break this rule multiple times?

>>23763325
Uzumi was an idiot but he didn't use a nuke and all he did was blown up the main Morgenrote facility which was on the outskirts to begin with. The Orb mainland was mostly undamaged

>>23763395
Only when it's convenient to their own narratives. Orb is very obviously just post-WW2 Japan in the Seed universe, and Japan's experience being under the US's thumb for decades and also being surrounded by hostile nations (China, both Koreas, Russia) really shows in the writing.

>>23763392
>>23763386
>>23763336
just like how the americans were neutral prior to december 1941 when they were selling planes and tanks to the brits, french, and chinese

>>23763424
America was never neutral in WW2. It refused to openly join the fight until Pearl Harbor but it was very openly pro Ally and anti Axis in it's dealings and policies, similar to how it and the majority of the world are pro Ukraine and anti Russia, but aren't actively fighting Russia over Ukraine's sake they're just rooting for them to win and giving them stuff.

>>23763325
>literally all for nothing as EA got what they wanted anyway
Well, no. Remember, Azrael told his guys to do as they pleased, but they were absolutely not permitted to damage the mass driver or Morgenroete. Uzumi blew both of them up. Orb immediately stopped having strategic value.

>>23763427
Yeah they conquered Orb but it was effectively useless to them because the assets they wanted were lost, all the Coordinators had been evacuated and anyone Azrael could have wanted to capture or get revenge on either blew up with Uzumi or left with the TSA meaning they basically just occupied it without a fuss to anyone.

>>23763426
>United States
>pro Ukraine

>>23763427
The problem is that they still recaptured a mass driver elsewhere shortly afterward, with like zero fanfare for the event, all because Fukuda needed to move the conflict back into space. Which makes one question what the point was to attack Orb in the first place.

>>23763426
see that's the thing, the only thing that neutrality really means is that the nation hasn't decided which side to take yet, not that it's some kind of magical, legally binding promise to take zero part in the war. calling orb out on it specially is sort of silly

it is incredibly rare for ANY nation in history to have an completely neutral position to an absolute degree. claiming neutrality doesn't mean the nation has zero interest or leanings to one side in any war, and it sure as fuck doesn't mean they won't have secret negotiations, meetings, or dealings for any reason for one or even BOTH sides of the war.

>>23763435
>calling orb out on it specially is sort of silly
We wouldn't call Orb out on it if they didn't get high off their own farts. WW2 America wasn't going on about being a nation of peace. We were very open about what we were doing.

>>23763435
The problem is Orb itself was openly spouting "We're above your war, we want nothing to do with it and we are much more civilized and neutral than your warmongers" At least the US was open with "We support the Allies and hate the Nazi's and if we weren't still fucking broke and miserable thanks to the Great Depression we'd be over there already"

>>23763435
Like the other guys say. The show paints Orb as a peace loving virtuous nation while at the same time being the Anaheim of CE.
And I have no problem with it if after Cagalli rightfully calls out the BS. The show followed suit, but it doesn't even acknowledge her points either. It portrays them as a helpless and defenseless nation relying entirely on Kira and Athruns selfless intervention as they are being attacked by Azrael and his 3 psychos.

And then gets extra melodramatic as it shows her dad make some historic noble sacrifice only to immediately have the show mention
>Oh yeah we found another one intact. What are the odds huh?

Like even Orb aside. He just gave his daughter a shitload of unnecessary emotional trauma by blowing himself up for no reason what so ever.

>>23763438
>>23763440
>>23763454
That's specifically a problem with Cagalli's family, by the way, not the entire nation itself. As soon as the Attha family is out of the picture, the rest of the orb politicians seem to be more than willing to openly ally with the EA. Morganroete getting cozy with the EA to produce Gundams is specifically a plot by the Sahaku family, and the Seirans were deep in with Djbril.

>WW2 America wasn't going on about being a nation of peace. We were very open about what we were doing.
>At least the US was open with "We support the Allies and hate the Nazi's and if we weren't still fucking broke and miserable thanks to the Great Depression we'd be over there already"
That's a terrible oversimplification of American politics in the pre-WWII period. You guys didn't make FOUR neutrality acts in the 1930s for no reason, and I don't see you guys giving Roosevelt shit about signing the neutrality acts and then also making Lend-lease a thing a few years later, or divisions of Ford and IBM being in cahoots with the Nazis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutrality_Acts_of_the_1930s

>>23763435
>not that it's some kind of magical, legally binding promise to take zero part in the war.
That's exactly what neutrality is. A country refuses to pick a side. Then, usually by a treaty or agreement, other countries agree not to attack the neutral country as long as conditions are met. Very similar to Switzerland in WW2.

>>23763478
Weapon sales and development aren't acts of war, though.

>>23763541
ZAFT disagrees. Because they attacked Orb's space colony, blew it up, and killed millions of people.

>>23763541
>t.Viktor Bout

>>23763552
They they are mad dog kilers war criminals without even a pretense of just cause.

>>23763562
He wasn't sentenced for arms sealing, he was sentenced for terrorism related activities.
Cite the war law that recognizes conventional weapons development and/or sales as act of war or casus belli

>>23763378
Incorrect. First chapter of Astray came out on November while episode 1 of SEED came out on October. They ran concurrently from that point onwards. Red and Blue frame also appear in the first ever PV of SEED and Red appears in the opening as well.

>>23763610
Drugs are considered a psychological weapon as the Opium Wars shown that other nations will push their supply to another to get them addicted and crippled them and thus keep them docile and weak. Which in that case the US has invaded Panama and struck Venezuela for that.
And aside from WMDs the other excuse for Iraq was that Saddam was supplying terrorists with weapons.

And Israel has invaded southern Lebanon cause Hezbollah is supplying Hamas with arms and manpower. And has conducted raids in early 2024 in Assadist Syria to take out an underground missle factory.

So some wars depending on your definition but most definitely strikes. Which is what the Battle of Orb reminds me more of than a straight up war in the conventional sense.

But really the hostility against Orb was more or less over the mass driver no? And orb was more or less nationalized it instead of having it be a international zone.

So really its more 1:1 to the Suez Canal and the wars brought on by Egypts attempts to control on who gets to use it.

>>23763746
>drugs
>supplying terrorists
So neither were over production of conventional weapons and selling them to legitimate states.
And even in those cases the attack wasn't an equivalent of blowing up a colony.
If you want argue that Orb did wrong, you should a assume there were put in treaties against them sharing Coordinator level technology, which would be fair enough as a violation.

The problem is that ZAFT, just like Zeon in War in the Pocket, overreacted so hard that the population of the neutral nation would be outright calling to burn all treaties and openly side against ZAFT/Zeon, instead of being mad for endangering their neutral status.

>>23763325
None of that happened tho

>>23763552
Zaft were also massive racists then. Rau was advised against attacking by his vice captain and did so anyway, and Yzak's crew were talking about how it probably wasn't warranted for that much force but fuck the Naturals and the council let him off more of the nerve of Naturals trying to make MS than attacking a neutral colony. As it was they all scoffed at Orb's neutrality to begin with because the idea of Naturals existing and not being a target offended them

>>23763454
>And then gets extra melodramatic as it shows her dad make some historic noble sacrifice only to immediately have the show mention
>Oh yeah we found another one intact. What are the odds huh?
>Like even Orb aside. He just gave his daughter a shitload of unnecessary emotional trauma by blowing himself up for no reason what so ever.

Well that's not entirely true. They invaded and seized another one from Zaft, actually one of their own in a base that Zaft had previously captured. They recaptured the base with the three Druggie Gundam's as a vanguard and specifically stopped Zaft from self destructing it as Uzumi did. It also cost them a fair amount of Daggers and men. So while it didn't stop EA in the long term it did at least hold them up and cost them more than if they'd just gotten Orb's like Azrael wanted.

>>23763466
>I don't see you guys giving Roosevelt shit about signing the neutrality acts and then also making Lend-lease a thing a few years later

People did at the time, but the modern US crowd loves that we got involved in WW2 since (looking at it from 80 years later) we were on the winning side, got several decades of prosperity out of it and it was the last time the US was unambiguously the "good guys" in war. See also how everyone is comparing Trump to Hitler and ICE to the SS, it's because WW2 is the major frame of reference most Americans have because its the one history books and history teachers love to talk about for the above reasons.

>divisions of Ford and IBM being in cahoots with the Nazis.

Most people have no idea that was a thing. I only know about it because a comedian I was watching had a whole bit on that. The official story I learned in school was We always hated the Nazis and wouldn't be caught dead with them and everyone was just itching for a chance to go over and kick Hitlers ass and save the world.

>>23763325
While people will contest the canon of Astray and Eclipse both of them shed light on how Orb is run. The 5 main familes outright own the islands and each of them has their own faction with their own goals. Instead of just red and blue they have 5 colors all fighting for control with their own visions for the country. One faction aided in the g project another faction ousted the project to ZAFT.

The nuke only wiped out the mass driver and military infrastructure. What caused the most hardship for the citizens was EA occupying Orb for close to a year and treating them as 2nd class citizens. This is why Cagalli is complaining to Durandal in GSD, Orb citizens gave up on Orb and stayed in Zaft.

Orb needed an ace unit and PSA as a whole was useless against the main MS weapons going forward. The Akatsuki was an upgraded Strike with a new fancy armor system. Eclipse explains that the reason there was only 1 is due to the mirrors costing the same amount as 50 M1s. Units without the mirrors weren't constructed simply due to not seeing the reason for having 2 new MS types with the Murasame being produced and backpack flight units as whole being inferior to the MA form of the Murasame.

>>23764010
>Well that's not entirely true. They invaded and seized another one from Zaft, actually one of their own in a base that Zaft had previously captured. They recaptured the base with the three Druggie Gundam's as a vanguard and specifically stopped Zaft from self destructing it as Uzumi did. It also cost them a fair amount of Daggers and men. So while it didn't stop EA in the long term it did at least hold them up and cost them more than if they'd just gotten Orb's like Azrael wanted.

I don't even understand this writing. If the EA had the power to easily conquer a Zaft Base, then why didn't the EA just push ZAFT completely off of Earth? The 3 druggie Gundams completely crush ZAFT forces. The EA could have (and should have) completely pushed ZAFT back into space and secure the planet.

>>23764079
>While people will contest the canon
The Director of the Seed anime is not just some "people". He is the creator of the show, and said repeatedly Astray isn't "real Gundam Seed" (the Japanese way of saying it's not canon). The Director said Astray is not how he envisions how Orb is run, and asked fans to stop asking him questions about Astray. He didn't write Astray and has no involvement in it. The latest example where the Director said Strike Freedom did not get the katana from Astray and seemed annoyed at the question.

>>23764207
ZAFT were functionally evicted from Earth except Australia which allied with them. That's where Carpentaria Base is.

>>23764254
Yeah but why didn't EA finish the job? Seems only logical. Then during Seed Destiny, ZAFT is back on Earth again.

>>23764261
The war ended before they could manage it, EA was put priority on pushing into space to go for a killing blown rather than grind out the most fortified stronghold

Post war ZAFT regains presence on Earth because of the Junius Treaty, both sides had to withdraw from conquered territory so ZAFT did get places back, and they actually gained some new allies from minor factions the EA had forcibly annexed

>>23764261
Because Azrael put their number one priority at nuking the Plants and for some reason he has absolute and total control over the EA.

File: astray.jpg (1.1 MB)

1.1 MB JPG

>>23763656
Doesn't change the fact that Seed is canon to Astray but Astray isn't canon to Seed.

>>23764211
I don't give a rat's ass about some salty fucker seething at Astray's popularity. Could be Tomino for all I care, SEED was a multimedia project and that includes Astray, it's canon regardless.

>>23765904
But the anime directly contradicts the Astray Manga. So the manga can't be canon.

>>23764211
And yet he doesn't own the series and was forced to do stuff like including an Astray cameo in the tv show.

And the katana isn't a good example at all because Astray never gave it an origin, that's just fan speculation.

>>23765922
No, the director on twitter contradicted the manga, not the show itself.

>>23765947
>No, the director on twitter contradicted the manga, not the show itself.
Then explain the contradictions between the anime and Manga.

>>23765960
I mean, you haven't mentioned any.

>>23765947
>>23765904
Astray manga isn't canon. I am sorry you are too autist to realize this.

>>23764435
>and for some reason he has absolute and total control over the EA
Because stupid extremists with imaginary chips in their shoulders being in control of the government has never once happened in the history of mankind, right?

>>23765981
But it has to be. The Astray characters are too superior to Fukuda's crap ones not to be

>>23765961
Okay let's see...

1. The difference between who saved Kira after Aegis Gundam exploded and self-destructed.

2. The power scaling issues

Astrays in the Manga are often shown to be just as powerful, if not more powerful than original Gundam units (Strike, Duel, Aegis, etc). Blue Frame being able to fight Calamity Gundam headon is an example.


3. Technology Dissemination Speed

In the ANIME things like Beam weaponry, Phase Shift armor, and Gundam-level OS sophistication are tightly controlled technologies. ZAFT and EA classified all of it.

In the Astray Manga things like mobile suit Variants, experimental add-ons, and custom modifications appear rapidly. Sometimes even before main characters in the anime get their upgrades.

4. Lowe being everywhere and at all Major anime battles.

If Lowe was at these battles then his presence logically should have drawn attention from main-series characters. You can run around in a custom Astray and not draw attention.

5. Orb's government

Anime = Orb is officially neutral and extremely cautious about open involvement.

Manga = Lots of Orb political factions and bitter infighting. The Sahaku family, junk guilds, and Orb engineers are constantly involved in secret development, recovery, and even indirect combat participation. Yet somehow don't violate the treaty in the anime.

>>23766095
I don't think any of these actually contradict though.

Like straight from example 1, the saving of Kira happens entirely off screen and is unexplained other than the blind priest had him shipped to PLANT. In Astray Lowe stumbles upon Strike, pulls Kira out and hands him over to the blind priest guy.

Even in the anime Orb's neutrality is shown to be complete bullshit, actually moreso without the the Sahaku family machinations invented to save face for Uzumi because they still do all that stuff anyway.

>>23766095
>In the ANIME things like Beam weaponry, Phase Shift armor, and Gundam-level OS sophistication are tightly controlled technologies. ZAFT and EA classified all of it.
Who are you complaining has tech that they're not supposed to have? Both sides already have beam tech to begin with, the only problem was miniaturizing it for MS.

ZAFT gains phase shift because they literally stole 4 of the 5 Gundams from the EA right at the beginning of the show.

>Gundam-level OS sophistication
The Gundam OS was not sophisticated, unless you mean it was a complicated and unfinished piece of shit that Kira had to fix to get it combat-ready. The only thing special about it is that it was originally intended for Naturals to use since the EA made it, but it ended up being finished and used by coordinators instead. Kira later helps develop the natural-use OS for Orb, based off his familiarity messing with the Strike's OS.

>>23766209
The only place in Astray mobile suit OS stuff is advanced is with Lowe, who just happens to have the goddamn RX-78-2 learning computer inside his Gundam serving as his pilot assist.
Everybody else is either a Coordinator so piloting mobile suits is fine, or gets upgraded OS tech at the point Kira develops the Natural User OS for Orb and EA developed their own working equivalent

>>23766095

>>23766095

None of these contradict anything.

1. Kira is recovered by Lowe and sent to the Reverend, who sends him to Lacus. It was never shown in the series how he got there.

2. Proto-types can be pretty powerful... And Blue Frame was already upgraded when it fought that version Calamity... Which wasn't that much better than the original 5 Gundams in the first place. Plus Gai is one of the best pilots in all the series.

3. All that "Classified" stuff was used in other proto-types as soon as they learned how to reverse engineer it. Its status as classified means shit as soon as smart people get their hands on the tech. The Gundams were classified until ZAFT stole them, and then their scientists went to town. And the Astrays had Lowe and his team to use their tech in his projects.

And yes, proto-types of main character MS is what MSV is all about. Unlike the OG Gundam MSV's, a lot of these were designed in the background when Seed was airing and released/shown in tech books.

4. Lowe being everywhere certainly doesn't make much sense, but it's not contradictory to anything that actually happened in the series.

5. We only ever where in Orb for a short time, and at said time, Cagali's dad was the current "ruler" of the main island. Despite all the shit other leaders wanted to do, he was the current head. Whether he was elected or not I am not sure. The real crazy ones were out in space at the time anyway.

>>23766095
1. No contradiction here, Astray just shows more
2. The Astray prototypes are functionally Duel, except with lighter physical armor (mostly they have no rear armor). With minor external additions Duel could hang with those new Gundams, no reason why an upgraded Astray couldn't
3. The people in Astray have access to all that stuff because... they yoinked the Astrays, which have it. And they can modify or upgrade accordingly, same as how ZAFT immediately reverse engineer it all from the stolen Gundams
4. No contradiction here just main character in a side story convenience.
5. Nothing here actually contradicts, Astray just pushes most morally dubious and/or hypocritical action Orb takes onto some jerk sub faction that Uzumi just ends up rolling with and making use of

>>23763325
>>23763336
>>23763351
Orb is such a confusing country. It's like a mish mash of American and Japanese ideals that clash way too much and despite Fukuda supposedly saying it's close to his ideal Japan you still have it helping the EA.

>>23766295
>Kira is recovered by Lowe and sent to the Reverend
Director Fukuda explicitly said Kira wasn't saved by Lowe and was annoyed when the Japanese fans asked about it.

>Which wasn't that much better than the original 5 Gundams in the first place.
Calamity beats the scrap out of the 5 OG Gundams. An UPGRADED Perfect Strike Gundam couldn't even put a dent in it. Even with upgrades, Blue Frame is NOT better than Perfect Strike Gundam. It's much weaker.


>And the Astrays had Lowe and his team to use their tech in his projects.
They are nobodies. A bunch of junkers traveling around scavenging leftover scraps. They would have access to the technology necessary to build or maintain hyper classified Gundam technology.

Imagine hating the cool spinoff manga this much. It's like hating Crossbone Gundam.

>>23766564
People aren't hating the spinoff. People are arguing whether Astray canon to the anime or not.

Or if Astray is like the other "AU Seed" manga. Such as Gundam Seed The Edge, or Gundam Seed Destiny Athrun.

File: Screenshot 2026-02-28 at 11-18-32 SEED_ReHome.webp (imagem WEBP 1280 × 720 pixels).png (707 KB)

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>>23766560
>Director Fukuda explicitly said Kira wasn't saved by Lowe and was annoyed when the Japanese fans asked about it.
I addressed this though. The anime itself never showed how Kira got out of this, so Astray giving an explanation doesn't contradict it.

It contradicts Fukuda's words on twitter, but he doesn't own Gundam SEED.

Zeta's staff hated MSV too, and yet still were forced to include cameos in the show. SEED tv has a cameo of the Re-HOME alongside the Three Ships Alliance (and it was kept in the HD Remaster).

>They would have access to the technology necessary to build or maintain hyper classified Gundam technology.

In the show itself logistics are barely relevant. Otherwise you'd never get Strike Freedom and Infinite Justice matching or surpassing the actual top of the line new ZAFT mobile suits in spite of being finished by a faction with much smaller resources.

>>23766639

>Zeta's staff hated MSV

That's news to me. Do you have a source on that?

>>23763325
Nukes aren't that bad ecologically.

>>23766639
That ship was already explained. Fukuda and other Seed staff said that ship cameo wasn't an Astray ship. It's supposed to be a Lacus Faction/Terminal Faction ship that is resupplying the 3 ships alliance.

Astray was canon to SEED during the original airing as said by Bandai back then, but in the 20 year lull with no anime stuff it gradually got more and more disconnnected as the authors had no clue what the post Destiny politics were gonna be so they made up all that weird shit about Librarian works and Orb looking for a new successor. Suffice to say when Freedom came back it's now totally irreconcilable and now Fukuda is super protective of SEED's story because he sees it as the only thing left from his wife plus he's annoyed at all the fanboys who like Astray more.

>>23767111
I think initially Fukuda didn't really care because Astray was largely inconsequential and it didn't matter what some side characters did off screen in the events of the larger war. But once Astray started going deep into the politics of Orb in a way that he and Morosawa didn't want he soured on it and then declared it all not canon.

>>23767111
>>23767126

Last I heard with Fukuda, wasn't he hospitalized, which is why SEED Freedom ZERO was delayed?

>>23767372
Hospitalized? I never heard that. What I heard is that Bandai sees Seed as their biggest cash cow. So they are fiercely guarding it from any leaks. In addition, Fukuda has proven that he can earn the company big money. So Bandai has given him lots of extra time and money.

It's the complete opposite of Seed Freedom where Fukuda said Bandai forced him to release the movie several months earlier than he would have liked. Bandai wanted a Christmas release. Fukuda wanted several more months to perfect all the animation. A compromise was reached. Seed Freedom did so well in theaters that Fukuda was allowed to make remastered Directors cut with like 700 remade scenes and new scenes (like scenes where people says Athrun is a better pilot that Kira and Shinn. And that Immortal Justice was lost because Shinn is just too immature of a pilot.)

>>23767111
>Astray was canon to SEED during the original airing.
See I'm not even sure this was true. I always thought Astray was it's own thing. Wasn't there like 5 or 6 seed Mangas being released at that time? They all can't be canon.

>>23767448

Fukuda himself Tweeted that he's hospitalized:

https://x.com/fukuda320/status/2009574953528787393

Point being, if something bad does happen to him, what becomes of Cosmic Era? Will Bandai Namco stick with his stance on Cosmic Era lore (disregarding Astray even though Sunrise-Bandai wanted to make Cosmic Era Gundam mixed media like .hack was)?

File: Zeta Staff forced to include MSV.jpg (78.5 KB)

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>>23766644
They disliked how it wasn't an original Sunrise creation and and the stories/profiles of the early MSVs were pretty much written with no contact with Sunrise. Some appeared in Zeta due to Bandai's push forcing the staff's hand.

>>23767008
It's the design of the Re-HOME.

I don't doubt that Fukuda doesn't care about Astray and only sees it as a random resupply ship though.

>>23767500
>Point being, if something bad does happen to him, what becomes of Cosmic Era?

Fukuda has already mentioned letting someone else direct Seed anime set after Seed Freedom. I'm sure Fukuda and Bandai will have discussions and meetings about the future of the Seed Timeline. Then maybe someone Fukuda trusts will be selected to Direct any potential new anime. While Fukuda takes a step back to be a Producer. It's a less intense role where he can be more of a supervisor, but still keep an eye to make sure Seed's story doesn't go wildly off course. Another Director can take over that day to day stuff.

>Will Bandai Namco stick with his stance on Cosmic Era lore

The Astray Manga has already diverged way too much from the anime. It's basically it's own thing now. It can't be canon to the anime anymore.

>>23767505
>I don't doubt that Fukuda doesn't care about Astray and only sees it as a random resupply ship though.

It's one thing to claim it's a random supply ship. It's another thing entirely to claim that's it's a Lacus Faction ship. It's a direct contradiction to the Astray manga. It can't be ReHome's ship if it belongs to Lacus.

>>23767518
>It's one thing to claim it's a random supply ship. It's another thing entirely to claim that's it's a Lacus Faction ship. It's a direct contradiction to the Astray manga. It can't be ReHome's ship if it belongs to Lacus.

I mean, like I said, I don't disagree that Fukuda doesn't give two shits about Astray. He has made that obvious. My wording there wasn't meant to tweak the meaning of his words to leave space for Astray in them.

He doesn't own Gundam SEED though, so it also doesn't matter unless they actually allow him to officially disown it, rather than just give these sniping comments in twitter posts.

>>23767570
I get what you are saying. But he's the Writer and Director of Gundam Seed. Plus Bandai isn't releasing statements saying, "No. Director Fukuda is wrong. That ship is an Astray ship. Not a Lacus Faction."
Bandai is just staying quiet. As long as the Seed anime makes lots of money, they let Fukuda do what he wants (within reason).

>>23767126
>I think initially Fukuda didn't really care because Astray was largely inconsequential and it didn't matter what some side characters did off screen in the events of the larger war.
Most Gundam Manga are considerate and respectful enough to not try to rewrite history or contradict the anime. For UC Gundam, the Manga were just neat side stories with characters who do their own thing.

However Seed was the first time I noticed Manga side characters and side stories were getting REALLY involved with the main anime plot. Instead of Astray characters doing their own thing, they were suddenly getting involved with every single single main plot line of the anime. Lowe was suddenly everywhere, every battle, and even saving Kira's life.

The only other Manga that was just as bad (or even worse) was the Gundam 00 Mangas. That's when I found out that there was an entire Celestial Being "shadow team" with their own ship, their own Gundams, and their own GN drives. That really stretched credibility. I still tried to give the 00 Manga a chance, but what really turned me off was stories of this "Shadow Celestial Being" operating behind the scenes at many major battles. Regular Celestial Being were portrayed as buffoons that had to be saved repeatedly by Shadow Celestial Being. That this shadow team were the true heroes, and regular Celestial Being was bumbling idiots who had to be constantly supported from the shadows.

Imagine if there were Manga where you find out Amuro didn't save White Base. It was actually a secret team of Gundams that no one knew about. That all of Amuro's victories were because this secret team of Gundams actually destroyed Zeon mobile suits before they could reach White Base. It's a total insult to the anime story.

If I were the Director of the anime, I would feel pissed too if I found out that's what the Manga was doing.

>>23767723

You can use Sentinel why we had Axi Zeon invaded Earth in ZZ.

Back to Cosmic Era. If Fukuda was going to be salty with Astray, then he should have come up with stuff like (Kira surviving in SEED for example).

>>23767801
It's a real writing preference that he's talked about that he straight up finds connective tissue for the sake of it uninteresting, so often just ignores it

Eg, he straight up does not care in the slightest of the logistics of how Kira survived and was transport to PLANT, he only cares about dramatic impact and the effect events have on characters

Which is a great match for a franchise whose fanbase obsesses over every detail, lmao

>>23767819
That's not necessarily a bad thing. Not everything needs to be explained. Mystery is important too.

>>23767505
>>23767518

See it IS supposed to be the ReHome because Astray specifically has a chapter where the Junk Guild meets with the TSA behind an asteroid and resupplies them, Kira meets Lowe and finds out he was the guy that helped him and Lowe suggests adding a Zaft head to the currently headless Freedom (after Raider knocked it off). But Astray has since become irreconcilable with SEEDs story, so Fukuda is now declaring it a similarly looking ship. But it was originally a nod to Astray when it was first animated because again, originally Fukuda didn't care but then Astray stepped on Morosawa's toes

>>23767904
When characters survive ridiculous death scenes repeatedly it does kind of need to be something that's explained. Unless it's just supposed to be treated like a joke which SEED is not, it takes itself deadly serious to melodramatic levels.

Fukuda's problem is he seems to have no concept of the audience being overly familiar with genre conventions, expecting them to seriously believe for a week of the dramatic twist of Kira getting killed and then being too gobsmacked that he's not to think about it very much when the typical audience reaction is that of course the protagonist isn't gonna be killed halfway through the show, the question is how the story was gonna allow for that.

Basically Fukuda isn't prepared to deal with a modern audience of tvtrope wielding overmediaed internet snarkers who overanalyze everything from lack of anything else to do and pretty much have the whole show figured out from episode one and are just watching to see if they're right.

>>23767941
>When characters survive ridiculous death scenes repeatedly it does kind of need to be something that's explained.
That happens all the time in Seed. If you don't see a body or the cockpit isn't destroyed, then assume they survived. You don't need Astray to explain it.

tl;dr. Fukuda is a salty bitch and can't cope with the fact that Red Astray is cooler than the Strike Freedom so he resorts to slander

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>>23768450
>Red Astray
I dunno man. For a show like Seed that takes itself seriously, Red Astray is kinda corny. Especially with Lowe's obsession with using a katana and hating beam sabers.

Like what even is Pic related? I know it's a chibi model (because I couldn't find a good picture), but it's a real unit from Astray Manga. Lowe builds a giant exo-armor for Red Astray and constructs a giant 150 meter long katana for his exo suit to hold. For reference, it's basically like Destroy Gundam wielding a giant Katana. Like....why? Why is he so obsessed with katanas?

Astray Gundam and Lowe would fot perfectly in the G Gundam universe or the Build Fighters universe with its zany and wacky mobile suit designs.

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>>23768827

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>>23768832
Seed takes itself too seriously for this kind of design lol. No wonder Fukuda is angry.

>>23768827
The Astray prototypes as they are when Red and Blue Frames are first yoinked have *awful* batteries, they're actually worse than initial GAT-X models despite no Phase Shift Armor and can't even properly sustain the suits stock weaponry.

The Katana becomes Red Frames signature weapon because it's not only a physical weapon that doesn't run down the battery, it's some shit like genuine Hanzo Steel forged by an old samurai swordmaster, so it's sharp enough to cut through most armor as if it was a beam saber

>>23768852
>no Phase Shift Armor and can't even properly sustain the suits stock weaponry.
Wasn't this problem solved relatively early in the Astray story when they got new batteries?

>>23768853
It's eventually a solved problem but that's where the preference for the sword comes from.

>>23768833
>>23768852
I never read Astray. How does he deal with enemies that use beam sabers?
Wouldn't it just melt his Katana?

>>23768867
I forget if it starts that way but I think they anti-beam coat it, so it can fight beam sabers as if it's one itself.

There's also a latter Astray that gets a sword with VPS tech implemented in it, so it can adapt to whatever it's facing

>>23768867
That's the weird part. How does Astray fight against suits with phase shift armor? The katana would be useless.

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>>23766114
>Even in the anime Orb's neutrality is shown to be complete bullshit, actually moreso without the the Sahaku family machinations invented to save face for Uzumi because they still do all that stuff anyway.
This simple isn't true. Fukuda meant for Uzumi to secretly support the development of the mobile suits and weapons for Orb. It's why Cagalli was so angry with her father during the early episodes of Seed because she believed in Orb's neutrality. But Uzumi betrayed that in order make Orb stronger. She thought he was a hypocrite.

Did you also forget that Seed Destiny literally showed the audience that Uzumi approved the development of Akatsuki? He even left a message for Cagalli to use Akatsuki to defend Orb. Further proof that Uzumi supported weapons development.

The Astray manga screws everything up by inventing a bunch of Orb political factions and each faction having their secret weapons development. Lots of infighting. It also makes Uzumi look incompetent because he can't control his country.

>>23769199
Isn’t he?

>>23769199
The problem with neutrality is that it's a meaningless stance to take if you lack the means to defend your neutrality. Without a means of defending your neutrality, you are just waiting to become a victim of the bigger superpower. Uzumi wasn't wrong for advocating for Orb's mobile suit development and advancement.

Didn't Sunrise say only the animes are canon in Gundam? Why is this Astray debate even a thing?

>>23769535
Astray did get two anime shorts.

>>23769535
Early Astray might have questionable canon to Seed. But mid to late Astray is definitely not cannon given how outrageous and ridiculous it is. Mid to late Astray, you have an army of Carbon Humans, an army of mass produced clones, multiple fully developed Gundam variants using a combination of PSA, VPSA, and TPSA, off-brand PSA developed by Lowe, secret organizations with military power comparable to the EA and ZAFT, the discovery of a special metal that is resistant to both physical and beams, and etc.

>>23769525
>Uzumi wasn't wrong for advocating for Orb's mobile suit development and advancement.
He was wrong because Orb's secret involvement with the EA caused ZAFT to attack the Orb space colony and blow it up. Which killed millions of Orb citizens.

>>23769535
It was an interview. And there they talked a blurry scale with the anime being the definite canon and then things bellow it varying in how "strong" their validity is.

It's really just a way to leave them space to do retcons on extended material, like timelines or tech explanations.

>>23769535
Sunrise has said that everything licensed by Sunrise is canon, with animated works being completely canon and other works being semi-canon.

If Astray says Lowe saved Kira and SEED doesn't show it, then Lowe saved Kira. If Fukuda directs a short that shows Kira barely stumbling out of the Strike and crawling over to Malchio's out of sheer will, then Lowe didn't save Kira.

>>23769751
>Sunrise has said that everything licensed by Sunrise is canon
No they said everything ANIMATED is canon. Everything else is just up to audience interpretation. Since Lowe was never shown saving Kira in the animations, then Lowe never saved Kira. Therefore Director Fukuda is correct.