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Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

fuck off jew worshiper

>>84041671
Lord I believe: help my unbelief!

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God made me an atheist

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>>84041887
even if this is true, choose to be Christian

>>84041959
He can't though only the chosen respond to God's voice

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>>84041959
>choose to be Christian
It's not a choice, you can't just start believing in something because you want.
>>84041974
Then what I said is true and God wants to see some people going to hell.

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>>84042191
>It's not a choice, you can't just start believing in something because you want.
You can, even the language used in the bible presents it this way.
>Deuteronomy 30:15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;

> John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

Even just in everyday life, peoples opinions are formed by listening to a certain viewpoint, republicans listen to fox news radio, the other guys listen to that other thing. Actions also cause feeling which supports belief, (if you do something nice for someone, you'll like them more (you cultivate the feeling of love by loving others in action)). When the bible says

>Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
It's meant sincerely, the one way "unbelief" plays into it is if you say the words without directing them to Christ in prayer.

Salvation is unattainable to man by his own efforts. Sin pervades our thoughts, desires, etc. Sincerity, purity, honest seeking of truth almost doesn't exist by God's standards, if it were otherwise, God would not have had to send His Son. The life, death and resurrection of Christ was no trifling thing.

If you want to get saved, you can, by asking Christ to save you. Salvation is eternal and cannot be lost. Jesus Christ came to save sinners. This is why the Gospel is known as the "Good News". Please ignore the calvinist. He is messed up on doctrine to believe something like that.

>>84041671
Ephesians 6:12

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>>84041974
There are multiple verses that destroy calvinism's "limited atonement" I will post maybe 4 of the more well known ones.
>1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
The sins of the whole world
>Mark 16:15-16 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Every Creature
>2 Corinthians 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
Died for all
>John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Loved the WORLD = everyone in the world , WHOSOEVER believeth = anyone that believes

Now, the typical calvinist (which I assume you are for pushing such a doctrine) defence for this is
>John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
This interpretation, of course; is crushed to pieces by the following quote from Christ, talking about His impending crucifixion.
>John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
So we can see that all men are sinners, God loved the world, sent His Son, Christ was born of a virgin, lived a sinless life from birth to death (overcame the world) died on the cross with every sin upon Him, and therefore paid for the sins of all men, and that whoever puts their faith in Christ will be saved according to the bible.

Finally I must ask that you don't let yourself be influenced by crusty secondary sources on the bible (commentary bibles, calvin, luther, catholic writers, atheist "bible scholars", etc). Theology is less than worthless in every regard, and I hold it in no small disdain.

>>84042300
>Salvation is unattainable to man by his own efforts.
Man you just reiterated Calvinism while trying to make a case against it, and then at the same time promoting Baptist eternal security even though Baptists deny Augustine's original sin and the consequence of total inability to respond to God that derives from it that produces Calvinism. If you're gonna accept original sin but also argue for human free will you should make the case that God gives everyone the capacity to respond to Him out His love for the world despite their innate corruption as a result of the Fall, in other words that we have prevenient grace, or take the Baptist semi-Pelagian view that original sin is bunk and we're able to respond to God naturally and that Augustine stinks and perverted the gospel

>>84042368
I'm a bad Calvinist I think everything John Calvin wrote sucks (he takes verses and then explains how they mean the opposite of what they obviously mean) but I also think generically that God is in perfect control of everything and makes all things ultimately lead to His perfect ending as just a fundamental aspect of being God and I'm working out what the Bible actually says about it instead of what people say the Bible says about it

>>84042191
>Then what I said is true and God wants to see some people going to hell
That's why you are supposed to hear the gospel preached and be baptized and go to church and take communion because the word and the ordinances of God are instruments of grace that stand to enlighten and effectuate the reformation of your soul

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I'm giving your vile jew one hours to be useful.

>>84042406
Just terrible. Your definitions are wrong. You've been poison-pilled by reading trash. Start again in John.
To start with "Original Sin" is just "sin nature", but even if I try to fix one thing you're errant on, there are probably a hundred similar problems you've developed. It's like you tried learning a martial art from a joke school. Start again in the Gospels. Avoid theology and secondary sources this time. Try to keep to the law of first mention if the meaning of anything isn't clear.

>>84042506
>avoid theology
You will end up believing in nothing, especially not the Trinity

>>84042545
I believe in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, no theology required.

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>>84042300
>peoples opinions
Religion isn't exactly a opinion.
>Actions also cause feeling which supports belief
I already acted like a christian once, I used to believe in God, go to the church and pray every night before sleeping for my entire childhood.
>by asking Christ to save you
I already did that but nothing ever happened :(.

>>84042464
This is a respectable position, I might have been too harsh if you're being honest about working through what the bible says. I've developed somewhat of a prejudice against reformers and their many ills ("going back to the greek" to push the opposite of what the bible says, getting puffed up with complicated theology while not understanding basic doctrine the bible states plainly (plain example what calvin wrote about women's coverings vs that chapter), their high emphasis on philosophers and theologians over the bible (similar to how catholics always claim ownership of the bible, but can only cite James 2).

In general I'd like to challenge you with this verse. I think it's pretty clear.
>2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
The context of the verse is about why God is waiting to end the world/ for Christ to return. I posit that the verse is stating that He wants as many people to get saved first (repent from unbelief to belief), which would deny the Calvinist interpretation of limited atonement/ "elect" meaning anything other than believers

>>84042494
>hear the gospel preached
I already did that and even read the main books of the new testament.
>baptism
Once, the Ps of my old church called the young people together and said that we would be baptized with fire or something like that.

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>>84042650
>>peoples opinions
>Religion isn't exactly a opinion.
Opinions are just beliefs about the world. Religion is just belief about God, the trustworthiness of the bible.
>>84042650
>>Actions also cause feeling which supports belief
>I already acted like a christian once, I used to believe in God, go to the church and pray every night before sleeping for my entire childhood.
My bad, I gave a bad example, I was like that as a child too, and then only got saved in the last years of grade school.
>>by asking Christ to save you
>I already did that but nothing ever happened :(.
If you did it with belief, you are saved. What did you expect to happen anon?

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>>84042666
To clarify, elect does indeed mean chosen.
God chose those who would believe, I think this lines up all the relevant verses without contradiction.

>>84042667
baptized with fire? sounds strange, stuff like reading your bible or getting baptized is only beneficial after salvation, you never see people get baptized before salvation in the bible

>>84042713
Outside of the Gospel of John I guess, since it was written to show people how to get saved (the word "repent" never comes up in that one btw, "believe" does tho)

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>>84042687
>Opinions are just beliefs about the world
>peoples opinions are formed by listening to a certain viewpoint
I thought a little bit more about this part of what you said. But by this logic, the second greentext quoted isn't quite right. For example, if you read the Book of Mormon and start listening to Mormons for a year, are your beliefs/opinions about christianity going to change?
>I gave a bad example
What would be a good example?
>Salvation is eternal and cannot be lost
>you are saved
If I asked Jesus to save me once, believing he was real, I'm saved even if I stop believing on his existance later on my life? Is it that simple? Then why would one follow any of the strict rules of christianity like not doing drugs or not having sex before marriage?
>What did you expect to happen anon?
I was more talking about other things I used to ask for when praying (not money or such worldly things, obviously). Forget about this part, it's not that important.
>>84042713
>is only beneficial after salvation
I was already saved by your standards when that happened.

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>>84042759
>>Opinions are just beliefs about the world
>>peoples opinions are formed by listening to a certain viewpoint
>I thought a little bit more about this part of what you said. But by this logic, the second greentext quoted isn't quite right. For example, if you read the Book of Mormon and start listening to Mormons for a year, are your beliefs/opinions about christianity going to change?
If I chose to change it, as a staunch Christian, I would choose not to.
>What would be a good one?
Action only occurs when you have belief, so it's a bad example all over.
>If I asked Jesus to save me once, believing he was real, I'm saved even if I stop believing on his existance later on my life? Is it that simple?
The argument goes, when you're saved it'll be impossible to completely stop believing later on. (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bible-Verses-About-Eternal-Security/).
I think this verses like this
>Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
and this
>John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
make a pretty strong case for this argument.

>Then why would one follow any of the strict rules of christianity like not doing drugs or not having sex before marriage?
Out of love of God, or fear of rebuke. When you put your faith in Christ, you are born again Spiritually, you're accounted as a child of God >John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Once your God's child, He'll discipline you when you sin pretty much.

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>>84043197
continuing
>Hebrews 12:6-8
>For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

>If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

>But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

>I was more talking about other things I used to ask for when praying (not money or such worldly things, obviously). Forget about this part, it's not that important.
Like good health for family members? That's probably the worst you can feel as a Christian

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>>84043197
>make a pretty strong case for this argument.
>Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
"never knew you" is a pretty good argument for this, one can be at ill with God, ignore God, want nothing to do with God, but when you're saved, you're saved.

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I feel like a relation with God looks like "Believe in me or else you will face eternal damnation" i tried to believe by praying but it doesnt work for me. I dont want to go to hell, but i dont know how to believe and i dont really know what are the reasons to believe in God other then fear from going to hell.

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>>84043702
like what am i supposed to do, i told myself many times im not a christian anymore but theres still this thought at the back of my head that tells me im a sinner and i will suffer in hell, i dont think its a word of God or some shit like that but the result of religious indoctrination i was subjected to from birth. I think i want to know how to make my relationship with God not fucked up or how to move on from catholicism to atheism.

>>84043702
>>84043749
It sounds like you already believe if you have this thought in your head lol, being a Christian is foremostly about being saved, identity plays a pretty small role

>>84044015
but i dont want to believe out of fear

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>>84043197
>If I chose to change it
Paying attention to a different opinion/belief for a long time means choosing to believe in it?
>when you're saved it'll be impossible to completely stop believing later on
What does it mean on my case then? Did I pray wrong as a child?
>Out of love of God
This makes sense, that was what I first thought.
>He'll discipline you when you sin pretty much
>>But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
In this world or in the afterlife? If this is going to happen in this life, what about non-believers? God will only punish them after their death?
>>84043239
>Like good health for family members?
Sometimes too, but generally for me. My health is shit.
>>84043271
>"never knew you"
What Jesus means here is that if one didn't get saved, it was just because one never asked for salvation to him? Is there a difference between praying to Jesus from praying to God if Jesus is God?

>>84044086
>fear
fear of what anon?

>>84044158
going to hell

>>84044087
Sorry to hear about your health. We pray to God the Father through Christ, since only through faith in Christ we're righteous. It sounds complicated but;
Man (prays in the name of) -> The mediator (Jesus Christ) -> (prayer reaches) God the Father
>what about unbelievers?
They're punished after they die, but random things, consequences of their own actions can also harm them in this life.
>Did I pray wrong as a child?
It could be that you didn't really understand it, didn't know what you were praying for/to, etc. It's hard to know the hearts of other people, or to understand ones own past, so i couldn't tell you. If you've put your faith in Christ now, you're saved for sure, if you want to get saved now, just pray and ask for salvation

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>>84044172
Just pray and ask for salvation then anon
>Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

>And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

>>84044209
i tried that numerous times and it didnt work, i dont feel anything when i pray or when i am in church

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>>84044196
>We pray to God the Father through Christ
Got it.
>if you want to get saved now, just pray and ask for salvation
If I do that out of superstition without getting baptized, will I already achieve salvation? But if someone like me gets saved, doesn't it mean that Catholics and Lutherans, which you don't consider real christians (I think I read something like that on another thread), will be saved too?

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>>84044299
>out of superstition
You can't put half your stock in Christ and then half in something else, if that makes sense. Catholics trust in their own works in combination to Christ's work on the cross, Lutherans are similar, they believe you can lose your salvation (and therefore, salvation can only be maintained by their righteousness).
>without getting baptized
this is something you do later on to publicly identify with Christ, unrelated to salvation. the thief on the cross died without it for instance.


>>84044253
>feel anything
why would you feel anything? feelings occur in response to hormones, it's a physical thing. What are you looking for here anon?

>>84044354
>What are you looking for here anon?
i want a relationship with God where i am comforted by the thought he loves me and i love him too, not just fear him

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>>84044354
>if that makes sense
It does. What do I have to have in mind when I pray to Jesus to get saved? Will my life change (ex: becoming one of God's children and being punished in life for my sins) if I do everything right in this process? What if nothing changes? Would it mean that I prayed wrong?

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>>84044401
You don't have to have anything in mind, just be sincere, and focus on praying to God instead of saying words.
>What if nothing changes?
Your life changing afterwards pretty much depends on whether you decide to follow His word, my life was more or less the same until I made more of an effort to go to church, read my bible, etc. This is a pretty common report among Christians.

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>>84044456
>depends on whether you decide to follow His word
But if God starts seeing me as his child, shouldn't he punish me for my sins like he does to my brothers? What's the point of only correct your children who are already obedient (the ones who are already going to the church, for example)?

>>84043702
Trying to love something that is threatening you with terror won't work. The foundation of Judaism is a master-slave relationship because the Hebrews were slavers and then later slaves themselves to Rome. It's all made-up hooey from miserable savages with a terrible sense of morality in comparison to our modern one.

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>>84044549
Sleep well, OP. I will await for tomorrow's thread