>>16920927
>Nobody is paying enough attention to this
Imagine thinking this in a world where every government has been stockpiling chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons of mass destruction for decades.

>>16920927
Solar panels are made pretty much exclusively from the 3 most common elements in our planets crust, carbon and copper. Only copper has any sort of realistic limitation on it's use and copper is 100% recyclable and still relatively speaking abundant enough to power human civilization hundreds of times over. Phosphates we have enough for hundreds of years and global populations are already on a seemingly permanent downward trajectory, food insecurity is also a self solving problem. The richest people with the most weapons that uphold civilization won't suffer from poorest people dying. Sand is a meme, you can make more sand if you need to, sand is only "running out" in the abstract as in the places you want to extract sand the cheapest are also places where doing so can destroy habitats or something. Sand is quite literally infinite resources on earth. All metals are essentially a nothing burger, they are all basically infinitely recyclable and the amount we currently have dug up is already enough to sustain our civilization let alone all the stuff that's still in the ground and the stuff that hasn't been dug up because it's not yet economic to do so.

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Scaremongers can't into basic marked dynamics.
The scariest thing that can happen, is going to be oligarchies deny market mechanics like scarcity from happening, meaning the decline is underprized.

>>16920927
anon, we are not running out of anything, we are running out of cheap things
maybe it is capital which is not sustainable?

>>16920927
Resources are not going to run out. We won't make it that long, civilization will fully collapse long before resource exhaustion. We will probably be back to the stone age by the end of the century.

>>16920927
Therefore, increase the efficiency and sustainability of the human subject through eugenics and unregulated engineering for the purpose of Speciation instead.

Make humans resistant, eventually photosynthetic, or more coherent and specialized towards the specific biomes they inhabit so they don't require infrastructure and further extraction of resources except for the ones needed for interplanetary diffusion. Giving to our biological systems the means for effortless survival resolves the main drive for infrastructure construction, which is discomfort.

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>>16920927

>>16920927
We won't run out any time soon like >>16920932 says.
What's truly concerning, is that right now (+1000 years or so) is our only window to go interplanetary.

Imagine trying to restart our level of industrial capacity without easily accessible coal and oil.

>>16920932

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>>16920927
Wow another anti-tech thread yet again.
>Even if we switch to green energy, we will run out of the metals needed for batteries, solar panels, etc.
You do realise you need resources for literally everything in life, even for a pre-industrial culture? In fact pre-industrial cultures were often WORSE with resource management given the lack of record keeping for more mundane things. For the Western World at least, they literally thought that wildlife was infinite and species cannot go extinct. Picrel is a history of forests in Europe and its why Europe has no Old Growth Forests today.
>A civilization goes through an Industrial Revolution, exhausts their entire planet's resources in just a few hundred years, then dies.
An industrial civilization that dies is bound to rebuild itself once things settle down. Our records & documents number in the BILLIONS, there are many MANY things that just can't be unlearned, despite your peasant fantasies. Engines, electricity, germ theory, and other fundamentals of industrial civilization will most likely remain with humanity at some level no matter how our future ends up.

>>16920927
Solar panels typically last between 25 and 30 years, with most reputable manufacturers offering warranties for this duration. While they rarely stop working abruptly, they slowly degrade, losing about of their energy production capacity annually. After 25 years, panels usually operate at over efficiency.

Make a home with a water supply to grow food, 2 x solar panels manufactured every lifetime.
But people are still cross-contaminated with space/time.

>>16921910
It's true. I quantum-jumped into the future when William Shatner went into orbit. I knew him in the past from another jump. It was American parliament in the 3000s; someone was on a journey there for a speech, and I followed him.
It's all back to basics, then, with a few technologies centrally splashed in.

>>16921967
reddit

>>16922164
They were a fraction of what America is now in population as well. Transportation and energy had a total breakdown. They were trying to feel what America was like in the past.
From other trajectories into the near future, example, I seen dead cars piled up in a broken down car-park in Christchurch, New Zealand in 2500.

>>16921950
>Engines, electricity, germ theory, and other fundamentals of industrial civilization will most likely remain with humanity at some level no matter how our future ends up.

Big agree. Even if shit gets reset to 5000BC, so long as there are people around they will immediately start rebuilding steam engines and electricity as soon as there is any kind of caloric surplus. It’s simply far, far too useful and the prerequisites are basically fuel for fire, iron and copper. Anyone with half a mechanical brain in the modern world could absolutely rig up a basic steam engine with access to tools and materials. Same with electricity. Even if your understanding of electricity was a little as “magnets and copper do something to make electricity”, it would get figured out very fast again. Germ theory is certainly going nowhere, that’s far too fundamental now. You might get hoodoo and voodoo cures for diseases stacked on top if things go really bad but the basics are here to stay. Crop rotation and nitrogen fixing going nowhere either. Plus all the myriad things we have invented that even a cursory description or a shitty diagram would let people figure them out.

>>16920927
We will just trade them for substitute goods as they grow more expensive.

>>16920927
We just need copper

>>16922400
Yeah if silver becomes rare, you can replace it with copper.

>>16922422
What for? I know for electrical purposes Aluminum can replace copper because it has like 65% to 70% of the conductivity of copper

>>16920927
Fossil fuels aren't running out and they aren't necessary to maintain industrialization, only to keep the costs low. None of the other stuff you mentioned are running out and even if they were they could simply be recovered via recycling, at increased cost.

>>16920927
>The Earth simply does not have enough resources
My favorite thing about posters like this is, specifically on this website, this guy thinks he's really smart
Some lunatic on the side of the road shouting at traffic abt the end of the world who thinks he's Elon Musk

>we deplete earths oil
>switch to meme panels
>75% of earths population dies because it's simply inadequate for our size
>wildlife and forestation begins to regenerate
>we revert back to a pre-industrial society
and?

>>16920927
Your Malthusian cult has been around for as long as industrial civilization and you have been wrong on every point every single time for 250 years straight.

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>>16922503
Malthusianism is not what I'm talking about at all. Malthusianism is about the struggle between a growing number of people and a fixed amount of land. I'm talking about ores and other resources that will be gone forever, unlike land.
>>16922470
And we stay as some kind of semi-industrial agrarian society until the end of times. I think that's our fate.
>>16922467
Yes I am fucking smart. Don't like it, prove me wrong.
>>16922463
>Fossil fuels aren't running out
The best fossil fuels already have. The aren't any more anthracite mines, the best form of coal. There aren't any more vertical oil wells like the ones you see in >>16920939. All that remains are shale deposits and "pre-salt" deposits.
>could simply be recovered via recycling
That helps, but you can't recycle everything.

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>>16922422
>>16922400
No, we need everything! Basically every element from the periodic table! You can't create all of our advanced modern technology with just common metals. At some point some things just can't be substituted.
>>16922375
I'm not saying knowledge is the problem, it's resources. If shit gets reset to 5000BC, we are in trouble. As >>16921910 said, all the ores we are mining right now are very low-grade compared to what we used to mine just a few centuries ago. So I'm not talking about some hypothetical future, we have already exhausted most of the good stuff, right now.
And if you don't care about modern technology and are satisfied with basic iron and copper, even that is going to run out eventually. Even on a geological scale, some resources are not ever coming back. For example, most of our iron ore comes from "banded iron formations", which were formed by bacteria during the great oxygenation event. That's never happening again.

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>>16920932
That is true, solar panels are 95% made of common metals. But the 5% rare metals they are made of are that much rarer. I don't think you can make a 100% recyclable solar panel. You can't just separate all the atoms.
>Sand is quite literally infinite resources on earth
We have a lot of sand, but not a lot of construction sand. Beaches and deserts don't count because the grains are round or something. You need to get it from specific places. Sure, you can grind tons of rocks into sand, but that would make all construction a lot more expensive.

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>>16920932
>copper is still relatively speaking abundant enough to power human civilization hundreds of times over
If you would please consult the charts. At the start of the Industrial Revolution, we used to mine copper ore so rich that they sent it directly to the smelter. All of that is gone. Gone from the entire fucking planet!

>>16922801
How would I find these graphs on other elements? Is there a name for this comparison. I am thinking that when someone opens a x mine, they have some definition that makes this area good for a mine and I am wondering about how that definition may have changed over time and where it will be in the future for betting purposes.

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>>16922810
Look for ore grade per year.

>>16922789
>the 5% rare metals
Such as?

>>16922829
Idk man, silver and stuff.

>>16922783
>No, we need everything! Basically every element from the periodic table! You can't create all of our advanced modern technology with just common metals
No we only use some metals from the periodic table. Iron, copper, gold, silver, nickel, lead, aluminum, titanium, and zinc. And most of them can be smelted without modern infrastructure.
>And if you don't care about modern technology and are satisfied with basic iron and copper, even that is going to run out eventually
You highly underestimate how much metals there are. Especially iron and copper as they are some of the most abundant metals on Earth. Even if in some extremely unlikely scenario where we run out of these ores, there is so much scrap metals they can be recycled for many many centuries.

>>16920927
Blanket the entire earth with solar panel

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>>16922783
I don't really count materials we could effectively recycle from what we already dug or refined out. Future civilizations/species picking up from where we left off might actually have an easier time in that department, since they may have to use simpler forms of refinement. If you're dealing with scrap copper and lead, for example, you wouldn't have to use froth flotation, which involves handling lots of dangerous acids, and processing tons of ore for every kilogram yield.

It's mostly the coal and oil, the consumables. All the easy pickings have been mined out, geological processes that replenish them (yes they are still replenished) are incredibly slow compared to what Earth had before.

I just don't think future species can reach this level of industrialization again if the only accessible oil is shale oil. We are Earth's last chance.

STOP LETTING BROWN AND BLACK PEOPLE COME IN AND EAT WHITE PEOPLE'S SEED CORN OR WE WON'T BE ABLE TO DO THE THINGS WE NEED TO DO TO PREVENT A HARD COLLAPSE

>>16922967
>white man's technology is poisoning everything on earth
>white man's greed is exhausting every resource in sight
>white man's weapons are a threat to everyone on earth
>white man's leaders and corporations are corrupting all nations within reach
>white man's words of self-pity, hate, hubris and division fill every social space it's allowed
Good riddence!
A thousand years of whitewashing history, religious indoctrination, burning down cultures and pretending the universe revolves around white people.

>>16922789
Solar panels do not have "5% rare metals". 99% (more if lots of concrete has to be used) of a panel and it's associated structural supports are made out of oxygen, silicon, aluminum, carbon and copper. The next most common elements are hydrogen and fluorine which is in some of the plastics and the additives in glass like Sodium, Magnesium and Calcium. All of which we have infinite amounts in the ground for solar panel purposes. Tin and lead come next which combined represents maybe 0.05% of the material, mostly used in the solders. Silver is used in extremely tiny quantities. Anything after that is used more in the concrete by accident than the actual panels do on purpose
>You can't just separate all the atoms.
Non argument. You can melt all the important materials (copper and aluminum) and slag the rest because they literally do not matter
>We have a lot of sand, but not a lot of construction sand.
You can make more sand, if you need rough sand feed rocks trough a crusher, if you need smooth sand feed it trough a washer. It's not complicated stuff. Again this is purely economic and environmental argument not an materials issue. Just because it's currently cheaper to pay some Vietnamese retard to dig up sand in Mekong and thus cause environmental devastation doesn't mean that sand isn't literally anywhere and can't be manufactured it it came to that from extremely common materials
>>16922801
Again you aren't making an argument. It's perfectly logical that people would mine the best stuff first.
At a very generous 5 tons of copper per MW of solar, 25% capacity factor and 36 000 TWh of electricity consumption in a year you only need about 100 million tons of copper to power the entire planet. That's a margin of safety of about 50x in comparison to world copper resources (which themselves are increasing yearly despite mining). That can easily grow into 3 digits with pretty minor reduction in copper use which happens pretty much automatically as price rises

>>16923222
I should also noted and this really can't be stressed enough that vast vast majority of the copper use in said "solar" from my example is not copper as some kind of magical element that makes it all work like silicon is but rather as part of wiring. Nearly 100% of the use can be removed by simply swapping copper wires with aluminum perhaps leaving out the most crucial electronics and then just building few more panels to compensate for any loss. This is the actual reason why we have enough copper for hundreds and hundreds of times our energy use even though we have "only" maybe enough copper to produce 100x our electricity and like 20x our total energy use (since oil and gas burned for non electricity reasons has to be replaced too, primary energy use is about 200 000 TWh) with the logic of the previous example with minor copper savings. Just by swapping out copper cables for aluminum you instantly apply at least 90% reduction to copper use so all those figures get an easy 10x to how far copper can take us and as copper becomes rarer more and more gets replaced by aluminum so that number will simply keep creeping up too.

>>16922852
Reminder that the first mass produced cars were electric and they only died because gas eventually became cheaper and easier to deal with. We'll manage. Probably.