>>153681428
Maybe they should all roid up

>>153681428
He would have been a HOF without the roids, just without the video game numbers. His eye for the strike zone is probably the best ever.

He's a top 5 all time player, it's just that he was an asshole to the (((baseball writers))) so they worked to destroy him. However much you think you hate the BBWAA it's not enough.

>>153681428
Best to ever do it, and it's not particularly close, HOFer before he ever juiced. Everybody was juicing and the commissioner loved every second of it till some butthurt senators got involved. The only reason he isn't in the HOF is because he didn't bend over and spread his bussy for some pencil neck reporters and (((they))) held a grudge.

>>153681508
most guys were on the juice in the late 90s andd early 00s, Bonds was still far and away better than everyone else on it, it was a weird type of re-leveld playing field, he was amazing without the juice and amazing with it.

>>153681521
I saw a study done a few years back where they anonymously polled 100 former MLB players from the 90's about roid usage. The consensus was that about 80% of all MLB players were on some form of PED's. One guy commented that you were actually more well known and talked about if you were totally clean and when asked what player was known for never doing PED's, the vast majority said Ken Griffey Jr

>>153681541
the year of the home run chase, Griffey was neck and neck with Sosa and McGwire and then kind of faded. He ended with something like 52 or 56 HRs, which is normal for like, a MVP tier year from one of the best players ever. So I always thought of that difference between Griffey and McGwire/Sosa was the effect of the juice.

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#1

>>153681500
/thread

>>153681500
The (((baseball writers))) voted him MVP seven times. They liked him just fine when he was the best player in baseball by a mile.

Over half of the players on the Mitchell report were pitchers. Didn't seem to help them against Barry.

>>153681428
Roids or not. He still deserves to be in the Hall. Yeah obviously he cheated but it's just not complete without him

>>153681428
The GOAT
Was top 10-20 all time playing naturally against a league of roiders, and when he decided to even the playing field he put up video game numbers, as old play by play guys who don't play video games love to say
And people forget that he caused so much butthurt that he got blacklisted, dude still had a few years left in him. Especially if he went to an arcade league team and didn't have to do anything but swing

>>153681428
He was no Alfonso Soriano

>>153681500
His teammates hated him more the writers ever could. I don't think he has a single friend from the ~20 years he spent in pro baseball

>>153681428
I don't know but Sammy Sosa is white now

>>153681444
They all do

>>153681500
This is true, baseball writers (sports journos in general but especially BBWA guys) are the prissiest little divas around.

>>153686153
>>153686432
>>153686465
All accurate

>>153681508
This. Steroids did not make him the best, he was already the best.

>>153681428
I got him 4th. He just wouldn't be GOAT tier without 01-04, so I can't fairly put him above Ruth, Babe, and Ted

>>153686664
>Ruth, Babe, and Ted
Lmao Ruth, Mays, and Ted*

>>153682046
Babe Ruth would have 10 without the 1 time rule. Ted should have 5+ too

>>153686507
>This is true, baseball writers (sports journos in general but especially BBWA guys) are the prissiest little divas around.
My list of worst baseball writers:
>Jeff Passan
>Ken Rosenthal
>Literally anyone who writes for fangraphs
>Ben Lindbergh(but mostly because he hosts a podcast, despite having the worst podcasting voice of anyone alive)
Good baseball writer:
>Joel Sherman
>Bob Nightengale

Top 10 baseball players of all time:

1. Barry Bonds
2. Willie Mays
3. Josh Gibson
4. Satchel Paige
5. Hank Aaron
6. Cool Papa Bell
7. Ken Griffey Jr.
8. Jackie Robinson
9. Bob Gibson
10. Babe Ruth

If you disagree, you’re racist.

>>153681428
I know nothing about baseball, but I know this man is a great player and a legendary asshole

bump

>>153681428
Below everyone who didn't cheat.
That's how it works.
LeBron is also ranked below everyone who didn't cheat.

>>153686440
The Giants organization treat their players like shit, Brian Wilson talked about this many times.

>>153681500
He was an asshole to everybody.

>>153681560
And he still hit more HR's than both of them.

>>153703077
>integrity
Baseball is Cheating: The Sport. Bonds did it best in an era overflowing with juicers. It's ahistorical to leave him out of the HoF

>>153704211
The HoF is a joke anyways. They leave all-time greats like Bonds and Rose out as punishment then have guys like Andruw Jones and Edgar Martinez inducted. Half the people in the Hall shouldn't be there.

>>153704296
Rose isn't in there for pedophilia though.

Probably still GOAT
he’s the best player in the batters box in history
if we want to believe what we currently know of who did and didn’t roid, in my opinion Griffey’s peak is up there as the best to “not roid” and play in the “modern era”
Mantle probably could have been the GOAT if he didn’t drink his liver to death

>>153704296
>guy with most MVPs
>guy with most Cys
>guy with most hits
>all missing
p-please care about our hall

>>153704179
Past MLB players would love to have Bonds and SF Giants team were full of faggots. I could care about these retards in sports journalists and former players.

>>153681490
>His eye for the strike zone is probably the best ever.
He's up there, but the guy who has the best eye is Mike Trout

>>153716514
Giants team is superfluous

*

>bad fielder
>bad in the playoffs
>no rings
>cheater

>>153716514
Everything said about him throughout his entire career was that he was a massive shitbag to everybody around him. Coaches, teammates, reporters, fans, and even the players he was coaching in Miami. Some people are just pricks.

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>>153681428
couldn't even throw out bream at the plate. 0/10

>>153689916
lol I haven't heard a Lindbergh podcast in years and I remember his soijew voice lol. Ironically over the years that type of voice has become standard on NPR and places like that.

But I think overall the younger writers (including Peff) are way better than the old generation of guys who are just insufferable fart sniffers. I think if you saw the votes for the roid guys there would be a clear generational divide where the younger guys are mostly voting them in.

>>153717403
>bad fielder
Only if you disregard the 8 gold gloves from a time before awards were a total meme. That's why he became an absolute batting god when he decided to respec all into offense - he had a fuckton of defense and speed points to redistribute

>>153720228
gold gloves were even more of a meme back then, note how he didn't even win his first gold glove until he broke out offensively in 1990. (which is also when he actually started roiding, just took it to a new level in the 2000s somehow). coincidentally also his last season as a good fielder

>>153681428
He went from a top 10 all time player to the single best hitter of all time.

>>153682046
1. Judge MVPs + Ohtani MVPs = Bonds MVPs. Still incredible, but you should know your post became outdated once Ohtani won his fourth.
2. Also, what the other guy said about the one and done rule back in the day.

>>153720228
Bonds cost his team the World Series with his atrocious defense. He bobbled a bloop single to left field in Game 6 against the Angels in the 8th inning and the error allowed the Angels to take the lead after being up 5-0 in the 7th inning and up 3-2 in the series

>>153681428
For hitters? 2
Hank A. #1

all time id say hes like 5-7 somewhere in there

It just too hard to say how many balls wouldnt have gone out if not for the extra juice

>Roids
>Armor
>Stands on top of the plate
I don't know where to rate him, but his style would not have played well facing pitchers like Bob Gibson.
He was the best hitter of the roid era, but was shit at everything else once he started roiding.
Unroided he was a top level player of the era and a HOFer, but I don't think he would've cracked being a top 10 alltime player.
Anyway, Roger Clemens is the bigger snub. He had a great career before the roids.

>>153725116
This is a ridiculous take, especially considering the fact that they arent relevant at any level without Bonds and his historical '02 postseason (or his MVP reg season). Ill break it down below:

1. SF doesnt make the postseason without Bonds, who won the MVP and led the league in literally every meaningful category.

2. They dont win the NLDS without Bonds - he hit 3 HR in 5 games, 1.233 OPS, and provided the insurance homerun in the final game of the series.

3. They dont with the NLCS without Bonds -
1.312 OPS with almost .600 slg even though the Cards refused to pitch to him! He was walked 10 times in 22 PAs lol. Santiago was able to win NLCS MVP because of the "Bonds Treatment", which was a real term.

4a. SF should have won the WS, but the team failed Bonds (not the other way around). He put up one of the all time greatest WS performances of all time. 1.294 wasnt his OPS... it was his slugging! His OPS was 1.994, which was equally insane. To round it out, simple math will tell you he got on base 70% of the time which is also an historic number. He was [almost] literally impossible to get out, providing power at a rate only seen a handful of times before.

4b. Bonds set the Giants up to win the WS in game 6 as they went into the 7th inning up by 5 runs. Unfortunately, the Giants bullpen blew the lead and they went on to lose the game 6-5.

5. Despite being one of only a handful of examples of a single player in baseball dragging his team to the WS, simple minded fans will only understand the narrative they are told. The 2002 version of Bonds could have dragged any number of teams to the WS that year; the Giants had no business making the playoffs, letalone game 7 of the WS.

>>153686440
Tony gwynn, but i dont think that counts when your only friend is someone who got along with everyone.
>>153686432
PREACH!!!
>>153686465
Nah man. Dark Sammy's back
>>153686642
Yessir, by a wide margin. He was the best player in the NL during the HR chase and nobody noticed. That was his turning point.

>>153700338
For someone who knows nothing about baseball, you sure know baseball.
>>153703209
Have more details? I never heard about this.
>>153704211
Get Selig out of the Hall. Put Bonds in.

>be secretly black and beat up white plumbers in segregated league
that's fine
>be one of two black guys beating up white plumbers in newly unsegregated but still some rayciss holdouts league
that's fine
>do speed/greenies/cocaine/whatever other uppers
that's fine
>work with your entire organization from top to bottom to cheat with sign stealing
that's fine
>be one of Manfred's designated "superstars" who gets balls that can travel 30% further than what eveyone else gets
that's fine
>do roids in a league where everyone is roiding
NOOO YOU CAN'T DO THAT
....Actually you can, as long as you smile during interviews

>>153704296
Jones was underrated as fuck. He deserves to be in, although i do agree there are guys who need to be pulled. Either way, baseball easily has the highest bar for entry out of the big 4.
>>153716394
I 100% agree, although there is actually a logical reason to keep Rose out. Unlike PEDs, which were never specifically referenced in the MLB rules, gambling was explicitly restricted and mandated a lifetime ban. Again, I disagree with Rose's exclusion but the rule was clear and well known (back sox scandal), and he rolled the dice anyway.
>>153716895
Feel my ubiquity

>>153717403
You're trolling but i cant help myself.
>bad defender
This is the insane take that made it obvious youre trolling. Bonds was the 2nd best defensive outfielder of his time behind Andruw Jones (yes, Bonds was better defensively than Griffey).
>bad in playoffs
Anyone who follows baseball understands the importance of things like lineup protection and sample size. He had very little of either during his early years in Pittsburgh, which fucked up his reputation. His '02 postseason was historic, and he was at his best during the WS.
>no rings
Stupid argument. Of the big 4 sports, baseball is the one where a single single player will never be enough to bring a team to a ring. Even so, the closest we've gotten the past few decades come down to three players: Bonds, Ohtani and Judge, thats it.
>cheater
Accurate, although he was merely the most talented cheater amongst an industry of cheaters

>>153681428
#1

>>153728579
>He deserves to be in,
No he doesn't.

>>153728868
Yes he does

>>153681428
greatest player of all time and it isnt particularly close