>>97585107
I'm sure you had only good and honest intentions in posting this as your image.
Either that, or just announcing that you are a flaming faggot.

>>97585140
What's objectively wrong with this image? Explain it without being bigoted.

>>97585150
You posted it purely to provoke people who hate anything LGBT-related.

>>97585107
I agree with you first statement. But what is the problem with starting at level 3?

>>97585107
>Game doesn't fucking work below lvl 3
>S-stop trying to fix it!
Make me, bitch. Unless WotC plans to fix it themselves, the game starts at lvl 3.

>>97585517
>Game doesn't fucking work below lvl 3
It works if you change your expectations

You are dungeon delvers, not super heros

>>97585517
worked fine for me 20+ times now
is this a skill issue?

>>97585150
>Archer Inventive
>only one bow
>and it's in the off-hand of the 2-handed sword
>also, three differrent dual-wielders
>ROYGBIV-compliant

SKILL

>>97586486
>multiple official level 1 adventures have opening encounters which state should only incapacitate the party if everyone gets dropped in the ambush/scripted encounter and they should get rescued and minorly inconvenienced

Yeah I dunno the issue with 5e is that’s it’s bad lmao. If you have to intentionally pull punches with goblins and zombies and giant rats because they have a solid chance of winning against a level 1 fighter in your heroic adventure game maybe it’s not well designed. Though to be frank this was always a problem with level 1 starts for d&d. A lot of encounters can just kill you if a single attack lands from the 5+ enemies in said encounter and they roll high. I remember my first character when I was a kid with Keep on the Borderlands and how we got TPK’d by a random giant insect encounter. I think they were bees or wasps or something.

>>97586449
But the game in question doesn't actually support dungeon delving. You aren't dungeon delvers, you're just shit superheros.

>>97585107
A game should be playable at all of its levels.

>>97585107
I think this is cool besides the axe dude.

>>97586552
Fun fact: Even AD&D had a mechanic for surviving at 0 HP. Insta death wasn't the intended way of play

>>97585150
I know you're just trolling, but I'll bite.
The image itself is a bigoted dogwhistle. The Pride flag, being associated with Pride Events is a symbol of bigotry (closeted and allies are not welcome), criminal activity (unwanted sexual touching of strangers, public indecency) and child sexual exploitation (teaching 8 year old boys how to twerk on grown-ass men).
It is also a symbol stolen from and used maliciously to mock three of the largest religions in the world.
>>97585140
You, on the otherhand, just kill yourself.

Now, to the OP's actual topic.
>>97585107
You fix the problem by bringing back the concept of the normal man and the man-at-arms being the default assumed NPC. Not every city guard needs to have PC levels or 3+ hit dice.
Once a 1st-level character is actually more powerful than a common blacksmith, the urge to default to higher levels goes away.

Which edition started the Level 3 argument and why was level 3 chosen?

Reminder: if you're starting at level 3, you're not allowed to say 5e is good.

>>97586602
It wasn’t insta death it was all of us getting to -10 because of giant beeeeees

Iirc they all had like a single d4 hit die but we just whiffed all our attacks and failed most of our saves against the poison. My dad was the DM so he just kind of mulligan’d the fight and let us keep going with the loss of some equipment because it was me (9) my friend (10) and my brother (7) playing fighter (Legolas) fighter (Gimli) and fighter (Aragorn) because we were all super into lord of the rings at the time.

>>97586659
>>97586661
A game should be playable at all of its levels.

>>97585150
They've got what looks like a single suit of armor, haphazardly shared amongst 7 people and they all seem more concerned with wearing as much large, untailored chunks of fabric as possible, rather than any sort of combat readiness.

2/10. These gay mercenaries would be dead within moments of a real battle.

>>97586659
5e

Because 5e says that you can't do your class features until level 3
Because "balance against level dipping" or some shit

>>97586667
and hopefully you learned that running is a viable tactic

>>97586706
We didn’t learn fuckin shit lmao

>>97586706
how are you gonna outrun flying insects
I still have my 3.5 monster manual and all of the CR <1 giant insects fly faster than an adventurer can run.

>>97586659
In 5e you gain like 5 to 10hp per level
A level 1 fighter has maybe 11hp, armour and a fighting style to reroll 1s and 2s
A level 3 fighter has 33hp, heals D10+3 and can strike twice once for each short rest, and has 4D8 of temphp on a bonus action

Low levels are too swingy and with no options for recovery, crits are often lethal. Also you dont have any abilities so its boring

>>97586702
That's fucking weird. Level dipping is great fun.

>>97585107
I only run games from level 3 to level 5.

>>97586773
If you want to have fun, you should play a game.
5e is for collaborative storytelling and improv theater.

>>97586659
Most classes don't get their archetype until 3 except for some notable exceptions, like Clerics get to choose at level 1.

>>97586747
Creativity
Scare them off with flame
Throw food as bait
Jump into water
Just run, unless they have a reason to chase they will stay in their territory

Actually reading the tactics of a creature is also important for the GM
There should always be a reason something attacks

>>97586949
Specifically we were in a tunnel but the main issue is that one of us went down immediately so if the other two ran that would mean they would die on the ground alone. Also our median age was 9.

It’s kind of neither here nor there ultimately. But there’s multiple issues at low levels in d&d from fragile characters to lack of mechanical flexibility to simple low options for starting characters in general. Over the years I’ve moved to the Storyteller system because a freshly generated character is just far more interesting and capable than a level 1 or even level 3 d&d character can be. Though that system has its own problems, namely even worse combat where you can survive a werewolf for three turns then get shot once by a cop with a .38 special and torpor

>>97585107
>Normalising starting at level 3, isn't.
What's the actual reason you have against this? High enough level to have some freedom in backstory and features that are helpful, low enough that there's still plenty of growth to have. And like other people said you don't have to start off pulling punches with CR 1/4th trash just to get people to a baseline level of combat.

>>97586917
What really intensely pisses me off about 5e is just how much of your class identity is blocked off behind level 3 and the archetype. IIRC it was an attempt to stop multi-class dips and front loading features which I guess succeeded, literally no one multi-classes in 5e except to exploit interactions.

>>97587553
>>97587564
>Waaaaaah I want my cool stuff NOW I don't want to wait
Go play video games

>>97586773
5e is weird about letting people pick up big power spikes too easily, even though things like warlock's magic weapon invocation or fighter's action surge really arent THAT crazy without the rest of the kit (unless you're dipping because you're out of options like a level 10 barbarian, but then you're out of options so you dip anyway)

dumbest part is you can still dip, it just has to be one of the S tier classes like cleric that gets its subclass feature at level 1

>>97587571
>Paladins can't smite, something they're known for until level 2 and don't join an order until level 3
>Druids can apparently commune with nature and are likely raised by a Circle of like minded druids but don't actually choose one until level 2
>Ditto for Monks except until level 3
>Warlock doesn't get access to the details of their pact until level 3
It's telling that 5e's DMG recommends only taking one session to get to level 2 and recommends fast tracking you to at least 4 before it slows down. Fucks sake, even Baulder's Gate 3 gives a lot of these guys I mentioned above access to their subclass at level 1. Except martials I guess they can go fuck themselves.

>>97585107
Yeah, that's why my TTRPG starts you with all of your major abilities at level 1, and they improve as you gain levels, rather than giving you fuck and all at level 1 and giving you all of your major abilities at level 3+.

>>97587564
WoTC also think that DM's should never kill players except for narrative purposes, that Creating Magic Items is nothing but a gateway to Powergaming, and that having literal different SPECIES OF HUMANOID have differing stats is 'racist'. So I really don't care what the fuck they think.

>>97586917
>>97587564
As of 2024, all Classes get Subclasses at 3rd level.

>>97587628
>WoTC also think that DM's should never kill players except for narrative purposes
Yeah, because if you just shove your players into a meat grinder at best they'll become apathetic and not give a shit about the game, and at worst they'll fuck off and replace you. Players don't give a shit if their character dies, it's just a waste of everyone's time when a PC dies. They care about NPC dying. If yours don't then they're numb and can't roleplay for shit.
>that Creating Magic Items is nothing but a gateway to Powergaming
Untrue, magic item creation rules exist and are usable by the players, and magic items can be purchased. There are even rules for a GM making magic items.
>that having literal different SPECIES OF HUMANOID have differing stats is 'racist'
Except they do, they have plenty of humanoids with unique abilities, you're just malding because you're autistic and hate change, even when it's for the better (being able to pick +2/+1 >>>>>>>>>> stats tied to race/background/class).

>>97587646
>Untrue, magic item creation rules exist and are usable by the players, and magic items can be purchased
You know those rules are optional and the DM can tell you no, right?

>>97587744
As of 2024, no they aren't. All Tools have a list of what items they can be used to create and RAW can be used to craft magic items using the rules in the DMG (which does not mention them being optional at all, and in fact explicitly mentions:
>The Player's Handbook contains rules on brewing Potions of Healing and scribing Spell Spell Scrolls. To create other magic items, follow the rules below. In these rules, "you" refers to the character crafting the magic item.

It also says the only requirements to craft magic items are:
>Time (listed via tables)
>Proficiency in Arcana
>GP to spend on materials (rather than a shitty exhaustive list it states the GP represents material cost, which has its own table for each rarity, with reductions for scrolls/Potions)
>The spell prepared if said item can use a spell

Also:
>ERM AKSHUALLY THE GM CAN SAY NO
Isn't an argument. The GM can say not to any rule. All rules are optional before the GM. As the GM, I can change, remove, or add any rules I want and you as a player can do nothing about it, so whining about optional rules is pointless in a discussion about TTRPGs.

Read the book, man of dark complexion.

>>97588047
>level one is often the lowest people do
Gee, really? Why is that do you think?

>>97586552
Oh my god. Where to even begin.
First of all, stop using D&D.
Now that that's out of the way. It's important to understand what character levels mean. Level 1 does not mean "start here". It means this is a character who has seen some adventure and lived to talk about it. He's not a completely unseasoned mudfarmer's teenage daughter level of competence, he's knows which end of the sword is sharp. It doesn't mean it's fine to throw him at a goblin village.
Character levels are an approximate range of power. You are not supposed to just "start" at level 1 just because that's the lowest level. This isn't a video game. Your character's entry into the story might be as a hardened veteran mercenary of extraordinary skill having earned his reputation not just by surviving but by taking part in adventures and combats which were important enough to have observers survive and document them. That's level 3. Are you an archmage who manipulates the fates of nations and casts epic spells to ensorcel the lands surrounding his tower such that none dare approach without invitation? That's level 11. Are you a demigod who contends directly with the greater Powers of the cosmos and occasionally, through might or guile, bests them or bends them to your purpose? That's level 20.
You are supposed to pick the level range that depicts your story and the characters in it. The game does not just automatically start at 1 and then go on till 20. It's supposed to start at an appropriate level for the characters' introductions, depicting them as they are at the beginning of this particular tale. Then... IF and ONLY IF... their deeds warrant a higher character level to depict their power, they MIGHT level up... IF and ONLY IF the GM fucking feels like it because he agrees that you are too powerful to be depicted at your current character level.
That's the fucking end of this discussion.

>>97586641
>It is also a symbol stolen from and used maliciously to mock three of the largest religions in the world.
Based.

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>>97585107
It depends on your story. When you do a heroes journey from the start, than Lvl 1 is correct. When you do a story were semi professional characters meet than Lvl 3 is good.
>>>/co/152448760

>>97585107
ew they look like they play D&D 5E 2024

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>>97585107
>he still plays 5th edition
>in 2026

>>97586486
>I've been applying band aid for 20 years all on my own, the system is fine
This is your brain on 3.X

>>97587637
You're not really selling me on switching to 2024, anon. If anything, you're doing the opposite.

>>97589394
I was just stating a fact about the system. I don't care what you play or don't play.

>>97586641
>symbol of bigotry (closeted and allies are not welcome), criminal activity (unwanted sexual touching of strangers, public indecency) and child sexual exploitation (teaching 8 year old boys how to twerk on grown-ass men).
I don't see any republican iconography anywhere there though.

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>>97590191
>I don't see any republican iconography anywhere there though.
Axeman's underwear.

>>97586659
2E. And not even as a common houserule, it was part of the default character creation for Dark Sun from the original box set.

>>97590191
Seems logical. Everything aforementioned is clearly not part of the Republican agenda ergo you won't see them there.

>>97592504
>Bigotry, criminal activity, rape, child sexual exploitation
>Not part of the republican agenda.

The attorney general of the united states, and a list of files from a late mr Epstein would seem to disagree with you anon.

>>97585150
Okay, we're going left to right.

Red: Apparently built for stealth, bright white hair. Cloak is way to long and would catch on everything. Its ragged already, so obviously it does and provides absolutely no benefit whatsoever. Its way to big. No armguards, not even gloves. Where the fuck to you sheathe anything or carry any gear? No helm? 4/10

Orange: Dunno why you're dual wielding, but fairly solid. I hope it's cold wherever you are otherwise you're going to overheat like crazy. No bags or anything. No helm on a clearly melee front liner. 6/10.

Yellow: What. 'Plate' on a dual wielding dex focused build. I'm going to assume the pauldrons are attached to a breastplate. I hope. No gloves, but at least you have bracers. No hat. No place to stow weapons, no bags or anything. distractionatbest/10

LGBTQWTFBBQ: Not terrible. No hat but might actually survive a skirmish at least, the gorget piece is great imho assuming its sitting on a breastplate which I hope it is. Honestly, not the worst. 7/10.

Greem: Probably the best here. Good choice of weapon, armor looks serviceable and solid and not overdone. Could use a gorget and a hat and some mail-kilt like leg protection but a fairly well rounded setup. 8.5/10, would adventure with.

Blue: What. No armor (may have chainmail? can't tell off of the right arm), greatsword and bow weapons with no place to carry either, stupidly huge cloak and scarf and mega-chunky boots along with no arrows. Gloves/bracers combo okay. what the fuck are you doing. sidecut/10, the first to die.

Purple: Not terrible. No hat, gorget collar could be taller, assuming a breastplate. Dual wielding again. C'mon. The sash is retarded and long enough to trip on. No gear, no lower body protection. 5/10 apply yourself.

Green is the only one with any sort of practicality about her (pretty sure its a her) beyond the technicolour vomit in the middle. I don't care who or what they like to fuck, most of them are functionally useless imho.

>>97586949
That's ironic. I recommend reading the monster entry yourself before advising others to do so.
Giant honey bees aren't scared of fire.
Giant honey bees aren't distracted by food.
Giant honey bees can wait indefinitely for you to run out of air.
Giant honey bees do not have any particular compulsion against chasing foes, or against leaving territory.
There are no tactics for giant honey bees listed in their entry, other than congregating in swarms and using allies for hive defense.

If you have to ignore the rules for the game to function, the game is bad, and you should play something else.

>>97587571
So you're just straight up admitting the game is bad and has been obsoleted by other, better, more fun products? You sure showed him!

>>97587744
Which is true of all rules in all RPGs. What's your point?

>>97593162
>Giant bees are usually not aggressive except when defending themselves or their hive.

Literally they just wouldn't attack unless provoked to begin with

>>97593162
>>97593236
also see
>A giant bee that successfully stings another creature pulls away, leaving its stinger in the creature. The bee then dies.

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>>97593241
wanna try that again, sport?

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>>97593236
Why are you lying about what the rules say?

Guys I also said they could be wasps why are you still arguing about bees it’s been three days and the time that happened was before Bush was in office stop fighting

>>97593294
>>97593277
I guess you missed the part where we weren't talking about 5e dipshit

>>97593311
5e is the only game, dipshit.

>>97593314
You make a lot of threads and make bad arguments for seemingly no reason. I don’t really know why you do this. Is someone paying you per reply?

lol schizophrenic

>>97585107
Lvls 1-2 are intensely, explicitly tutorial levels for first-time TTRPG players. 5e is appealing to the widest audience of knuckle draggers possible. find a better system if starting at level 3 bothers you for some reason

>>97593173
I'm pretty sure in AD&D/3.5/PF as long as you can cover the gold costs and time the DM can't tell you no unless you're trying to do really bullshitty stuff that might be bending the creation rules.

>>97588412
I love how you losers are still butthurt about 3e.

>>97585517
The game stops being fun after 3

>>97586641
Okay, but can you explain without being bigoted?

>>97594163
define bigot

>>97586659
It's always been a thing to some extent, because level 1 historically has been boring as fuck. but level 3 was chosen for 5e specifically, because it's when classes are actually allowed to function.

>>97585107
have you tried not playing 5eD&D?
other systems exist.

>>97586770
>low levels are too swingy
Oh no you don't automatically win the encounter sorry I mean curated cinematic action scene.
>crits are often lethal
Lethal? In 5e you don't die at 0hp.

>>97586641
>It is also a symbol stolen from and used maliciously to mock three of the largest religions in the world
Rainbows are not the property of any religion. They are a naturally occurring phenomenon.

Either way people complaining about mocking christianity are some of the whiniest bitches alive. Sorry that people are allowed to make fun of your religion now, I guess you'll just have to settle for the paltry centuries of global hegemony it enjoyed. Sorry.

>>97592504
fell for it again club

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>>97585150
I'm just not a fan of Renly's Rainbow Guard. It was completely presumptuous of a second son to act like he had the Seven on his side when he wasn't the rightful heir to the Iron Throne regardless of Joffery's heritage.

>>97593841
The Dm can tell you no in any situation for any reason or no reason.

>>97594353
The players can tell you no in any situation for any reason or no reason.

>>97594429
Nope.

>>97594180
>a narrow-minded person who obstinately adheres to their own opinions and prejudices
>especially : one who strongly and unfairly dislikes or feels hatred toward others based on their group membership

>>97594353
While true, abusing that power will soon have your players leaving your table. You can't just say no for no reason.

>>97593574
NTA but the anon you were replying to was being sarcastic

>>97594276
Reread the story of Noah and why they the rainbow flag was invented.

>>97592504
We have the deposition, Anon. She was 13 years old, Anon. She was a fucking child, Anon. She was a child and he covered her mouth with his greasy, orange hand so no one would hear her screaming. He specifically asked for his child to be a virgin, Anon. He wanted blood, Anon.

>>97594289
In fairness to Renly, Stannis is a moron.

>>97596781
They can certaintly attempt to leave, if they don't value their limbs.

>>97585517
Ironically, 5e is most fun if it's capped at level 10

>>97603643
based trump btfoing normies as per usual

>>97603724
"Game doesn't work below level 3" was mostly a 3e thing IIRC, because of feats retardation.

>>97585150
Very well, I shall offer you the worst insult of all, it's boring. Milquetoast fantasy for "everyone" is boring.

>>97603725
"How's it going 4chan? Having a normal one?"
>"People who don't rape children are fucking normies."
"Oh.. guess not.."

>>97603815
> In the end, the Party would announce that two and two made five, and you would have to believe it. It was inevitable that they should make that claim sooner or later: the logic of their position demanded it. Not merely the validity of experience, but the very existence of external reality, was tacitly denied by their philosophy. The heresy of heresies was common sense. And what was terrifying was not that they would kill you for thinking otherwise, but that they might be right. For, after all, how do we know that two and two make four? Or that the force of gravity works? Or that the past is unchangeable? If both the past and the external world exist only in the mind, and if the mind itself is controllable—what then?

>>97603815
kys normie

>>97604884
And here we see the pedophile in his natural habitat.

>>97605225
Gonna cry? I'm fucking your kids right now btw lmao

>>97585150
Lame power rangers

>>97588077
How is any of that a response to the post you're replying to?
Is this just a copypasta that you mindlessly dump into every D&D thread? Are you a bot?

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>>97586702
>Because "balance against level dipping" or some shit
except a level 1 Fighter still gets proficiency with every piece of gear in the game, lel

>>97587590
The thing with BG3 is that you hit level 2 as soon as you finish the tutorial chapter, and hit level 3 shortly thereafter assuming you're doing thing in the "intended" order, and only then does the leveling slow down. And the only fight you really have to do at level 2 is one where you have a bunch of allies, the enemies largely ignore you in favor of attacking said allies, and you start the fight with a Rally buff that amounts to a 50% increase to your health pool.

So yeah the game basically speedruns you to level 3 and is playing softball with every encounter that happens before then.

>>97593162
Compunction. You meant to use the word compunction there, not compulsion.

>>97585107
So are they all men but the one at the end on the right?
Is that the joke?

>>97586773
Maybe. But it completely defeats the point of a level and class system, and does so in a way that makes the results profoundly dysfunctional. The correct solution to the problem (assuming you insist upon using a class and level system at all) is to just completely forbid any multiclassing at all. It just doesn't exist as an option. If there isn't a class that does what you want, then you just have to deal with that on your own somewhere else, not at my table. The classes are there, there are a lot of them, they're all different... If that isn't enough for you, then fuck off. I have more important things to do with my time than to babysit your buildshittery and troubleshoot the problems you're causing yourself or the rest of the party.

>>97594289
He was playing up the 'Well, *I* am a faithful servant of the Seven' angle after his elder brother's proclamation of his Kingship cited a foreign god rather then any of the gods of Westeros.

>>97585107
>1
Feel free to ask me exactly why first level is the best.

levels
>yikes!

>>97585107
Playing dnd 5e is not fine

>>97603744
3e below level 3 is awesome. Just a very different game. You still have shit like wizards using darts at those levels, very iconic.

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True, now roll up a 16th level character, you have a Prime Material plane to save.

>>97608286
nogames
>yikes!

>>97586659
Because 1 - 3 is boring as shit. Its a roleplaying game which relies on combat for progression mostly and the combat in low levels is insanely boring and extremely limited. Most classes are literally just swinging a sword on repeat for 10+ rounds.

>>97585107
My first D&D 3.5e campaign I started at lvl 12.
He's lvl 15 now.
Shit's craaaaazy.
And very fun.

>>97586559
It does, you just have to use the rules included for it that most people ignore, like weight and mundane equipment, that most people ignore.

>>97585150
Women are shit at melée.
Source: 20+ years of SCA and HEMA.

Idk why anyone would play a game that sucks to play for the first two sessions minimal.

>>97585107
I start every campaign off with the players at Level 0. Classes are something they discover usually in session 1 or 2.

>>97585107
The girl with the Lucerne Gammer looks like she might actually know how to use it. The rest? I reckon I could take them. Especially if I'm in my Vendel/Early Saxon gear.

>>97590417
Uh, bigot, it's AxeMA'AM

levels
>yikes!

>>97585107
>>97585150
>Nose ring!
>Tattoos!
>Hair dye!
>Bluesky account!
>Impotent rage!
>Delusions!
>By your gayness combined, I am Captain Lesbian!

>>97606214
Not if you multiclass. Level 1 assumes main starting class, otherwise the rules for multiclassing gives very different bonuses for taking a level 1 dip. You mostly just get the class features of level 1. In the fighter’s case that means a fighting style.

My fix for the level 1 problem was just to start characters off with their Con value as starting HP + class level, and you don’t get +con on level up, just class hp.

You only end up with less hp at very high levels, but I am absolutely fine with this as HP bloat is the second worst part of 5e anyways. It also means if you take a 8 con wizard you aren’t actively throwing.

>levels
yikes!

"Level one, bonus hp equal to your Constitution."

>>97614729
We've already had the King of the Lesbians. Steven would demolish the pretender.

>>97585150
They are alive

>>97590191
Lmao get gassed faggot.

>levels
yikes!

>>97585107
Green is fine. Green and black are good colors for a heroic adventurer. The choice of weapons is kino. The hairstyle is appropriate to not to interfere during combat.

As a warrior, she is larger, more aggressive, and less feminine than other women. No wonder that she is a dyke.

>>97594276
Get fucked, faggot.

God gave us the rainbow as a promise not to nearly exterminate us ever again with a great flood.

>>97596048
>unfairly.

So almost everyone you claim is a 'bigot', is in fact, not one.

>>97603643
You mean the deposition from the kid who admitted much later in life she lied and was coached?

That one?

its hoe 5e works

>>97608361
Boring. Let me be level one and have to deal with a ruined fort full of gobbos raiding a nearby trade route.

>>97585107
This is true
Run high lethality before 3.
Most adventurers don't make it to 3.
The adventurers that make it to 3, get there through at least as much luck as skill, and have probably picked up some paranoia related to how their assorted comrades died to both stupid, preventable deaths, and unpredictable acts of fate alike.
The party should be a veritable ship of theseus by the time 3 finally arrives.

>>97586659
More broadly, 3 just happens to be where characters tend to leave the danger zone of being oneshot by random bullshit, and the game advances beyond coin flips for everything you do. 3 isn't a hard rule or anything, it's just when these snarls stop cropping up.

5e specifically though, most classes have core functionality gated away behind level 3. Some get it a bit earlier, but 3 is the standard. Several classes are just shitty fighters until 3, and several have gaping holes in their action plans because of this.
It actually got worse with 5.5, since now there's shit like Clerics not even knowing what god they worship at level 1, Warlocks not knowing who they made a pact with, Sorcerers not knowing if they're covered in scales or not, ect.

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>>97585150
>Mask off by second post
Low quality bait thread