>>97597595
>What houserules, homebrew, or fan rewrites do you swear by?
Glory Overwhelming is cool for 3e but doesn't really solve any of the problems with 3e so much as just makes it much more awesome. I'd swear by Demake too, sure.

>>97597595
TAW. Accept no substitutes.

>>97597595
Haven't run it yet, but:
>TAW (or parts of it)
>some exalt types from Demake/Black Vault
>charms from Ink Monkeys
>3e stuff on a case-by-case basis
>Lunars can have Fair Folk abilities, although not easily
I have vague ideas of altering Alchemicals to be based on adamant and Autochthon's elements/poles as well, but I'll see how the book does first and how hard it would be to change (and then not do anything about it because how often do people even play Alchemicals).

As a side note, does anyone have a copy of the Infernals Homebrew Charm Compilation [2e] from the Onyx Path forums? It allegedly had, like, over 1000 pages of charms for underutilized Yozi and antebellum/Gunstar Autochthonia Primordials.

>>97597595
Are there Hades-style versions of the other Incarna? Because if not we need some!

>>97598845
>3e stuff on a case-by-case basis
I appreciate 3e being listed under homebrew.

Create a 3e starting character that could feasibly take over the Realm. This character does not get any additional experience. Describe the means and the process.

>>97598981
Easy, it's a DB with Breeding and a lot of social Merits representing connections to and favor with Dynastic bigshots from multiple Houses.

>>97598981
Solar, any kind but Night is ideal, so long as they have strong and clear Past Life memories of what they need to do and the stealth/social skills to go through with it. Stealth into the Imperial Manse / Penitent / old Palace of the Deliberative and wield the nigh-unlimited power available to become the ruling power with your legitimacy being 'The Empress did it, so me doing it is just as viable'. You could disguise as the Empress like I see everyone saying but there's common DB charms for seeing through that and it'd basically just be cosplay with all the eyes on you.

Any splat, start with Ally 5 (The Scarlet Empress) under mind control that is shaky as hell, something like 'My Peacock Shadow Eyes Lies Are Bumping Into Each Other' or 'I have an Eclipse Oath and a dream' or 'Slave Collar goes BRRRRR sure hope it's never damaged or questioned despite being plainly visible'.

Insert directly into Peleps Fukof with a build that's as accurate as possible. You rule the Realm... technically. 'Technically' is the only reason it works, because otherwise you couldn't afford/take the (N/A) merits.

>>97599288
>Peleps Fukof
*Tepet Fokuf
His name is always "Irrelevent Water DB House Fuck Off" in my head.

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>>97598964
There doesn't appear to be.

>>97599292
And ge's not even from a primarily Water-Aspected House...

>>97598981
Infernal. Azimuth. Athletics Primordial: Wind-Born Stride, Racing Vitaris, Foam-Dancing Haste, Earth-Skimming Gale Tread, Killing Wind Stride, Ceaseless Murder Wind, Surpass the Silent Wind, God-Monster Thew, Strength Is Destruction, Behemoth-Sinew Surge, World-Shaking MIght, World-Warping Charge, Tower-Toppling Hubris, Meteor Hoofprint Stomp, Creation-Trampling Rampage, Infinite Might Expansion, Universe-Collapsing Juggernaut Beast and Transcendent Devil-Body Perfection for 2 dots' worth of Devil-Body abilities (costs 12 BP). Devil-Body has: Pestilent Apotheosis with the Hellish vector for Iphimedeia, The Revel Outside The Gates (1 Hardness-ignoring agg damage every day at the minimum, as symptoms intensify adds crippling penalties, increases damage levels and compels the victim to dance), Dispersed Form and the immobile version of Expansive Form. The circumstance for being exempt from this Torment is a formal declaration of recognition that the Infernal is the rightful ruler of the Realm, up to and including acknowledging the Infernal as the heir of the Scarlet Empress if the viewer has a government position or citizenship in the Realm. This declaration must be made in good faith, preferably strong enough to constitute a minor Tie.

The Infernal rushes (automatically succeeding, thanks to Surpass the Silent Wind) to the Scarlet Empress' throne. He stabs himself in the gut with the nearest sharp object to manually activate his Devil-Body. He erupts into an immaterial malevolent presence whose mere touch spreads a disease that makes 3e's Green Sun Wasting look like the common cold, has physically assimilated an area out to long range from the centre of the Blessed Isle, and can respond to anyone who disagrees AND can strike an immaterial target with powerful shockwave attacks, Feats of Strength and being metaphysically larger than anything else in the universe.

>>97598981
Solar supernal craft, get those charms that allow you to pull a second sword of Creation and nuke the Realm.

>>97599681
He also a Supernal Craft Twilight as a 5-dot ally. The Twilight uses her ability to just churn out Realm Defence Grid-tier constructs to work on building Hell-flavoured Realm Defence Grids conceptually similar to the bow that Ligier made for his suitor in the Tragedy of the Five-Arrow Prince out of their son in how it combines Solar Essence and the Essence of Hell. It's main purpose is to expand the Infernal's Devil-Body until it physically encompasses the entire Blessed Isle.

The Infernal takes over the Realm by simply becoming the Realm. This could have been accomplished with either Mind-Corrupting Puissance to alter the psyche of all individuals in the Realm into copies of the Infernal, or Overwhelming Passion to command absolute adoration instead. But I am taking a conservative definition of "the Realm" to include a population which chooses of it's free will to serve a ruler however reluctantly, and avoid getting into questions of autonomy or how the ST should resolve endless (Attribute + Ability) vs Resolve rolls for everyone in the Blessed goddamn Isle.

Also, for the purposes of the Twilight ally's politics she is basically Lyta if she was born a Twilight.

>>97599626
Holy shit Tepet aren't even Water? How are they Air? They only Air-ish thing they do is exist/stop existing in the North.

>>97599681
>Dispersed Form
Just realised I screwed up remembering Dematerialized Form’s name and cost. Okay. New Devil-Body plan: Expansive Form, Mind-Corrupting Puissance (remembering the Infernal as the Scarlet Empress’ legitimate heir) with the Devil Aura vector, and Overwhelming Passion (overwhelming loyalty to the Infernal) with the Hellish Touch vector.

I was hoping to be more initially low key about this, but given the point costs involved I suppose absolutely wrecking the palace upon deployment then spamming Psyche effects on everyone too dazed to remember to switch on their mental defences has it’s merits in terms of actually preserving useful lackeys.

not to poopoo but

>>97599681
>>97599701
>>97599754
>rushes to the Scarlet Empress' throne
>Expands out to long range from the Scarlet Throne
Okay, I can see several issues here.
First, her throne's in the Imperial Palace which contains the Imperial Manse. You transforming there looks a lot like a bug running into a bugzapper.
Second is that rushes don't prevent you being attacked or even make you go faster and require you have a character within medium range to target, so just on basic rules mechanics that fails to zero effect. It definitely doesn't, like, protect you from any of the people who'd be in the way, and there are a lot of people in and around the Imperial Palace given that it's the Imperial City who would be in the way.
Third is that your end effect doesn't do much of anything? Like sure let's say you don't get zapped, you're still only blotting out a single upper class neighbourhood of the Imperial City, not the whole of the Realm.
Fourth is that you're putting yourself in range of a lot of spirit killers iirc.

>The Twilight uses her ability to just churn out Realm Defence Grid-tier constructs to work on building Hell-flavoured Realm Defence Grids conceptually similar to the bow that Ligier made for his suitor in the Tragedy of the Five-Arrow Prince out of their son in how it combines Solar Essence and the Essence of Hell. It's main purpose is to expand the Infernal's Devil-Body until it physically encompasses the entire Blessed Isle.
You mean war manses? That sounds... very slow. The RGD isn't a directly craftable thing, it's a network of war manses. Also, every demesne on the Blessed Isle is already capped and occupied by interested parties.

>>97599751
I don't think they do anything particularly Water-ish, either. That said, being soldiers is a shared theme or association of all Dragon-Blooded Aspects, one of the Air Aspect concepts suggested in 1E's Exalted: the Dragon-Blooded is "philosopher-general", and the same book says that Air-Aspected followers of Mela "are often among the Realm's premier military strategists" (among other things). I think Tepet's martial focus fits their predominant Aspect just fine.

Guys I did a rough calculation of exalted essence charms, mas and spells [Discounting dragon king/dream sould/umbral and exgent types modes and charms]. Until now (core, poc, and pg manuscripts) and there are around 1700 between the three of them. Point being my newb group doesn't speak english, so I'm going to translate all that. I think I'll start by doing the Essence 1 universal charms and those of the pc splat they're picking. How can I make this more efficient?

>>97600633
Such a daring and ambitious madness is definitely worthy of Exalted. This is the kind of task where I'd be tempted to suggest trying whether some AI or another might not be useful.

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I'm not sure I understand how Rush is supposed to work.
>move within short range of an opponent (not close range)
>use rush
>rush itself doesn't move me, it just makes me move if the opponent moves
>if the opponent moves, I follow one range band, which still puts me at short range.

>>97601087
And then on your next turn you can use your normal move to close the distance and engage the enemy. Otherwise, with everyone moving at the same pace, you could never catch an enemy who starts at a medium range or further away from you and keeps moving away on his turn. Rush being an extra movement on top of that normal range band you can cover on your turn is the key here.

>TQ

Reskinning lots of Alchemical Charms as Lunar ones. The years are never kind to the latter, and Alchemicals always show off how the writers have gotten better at Charms in the intervening span of years. Especially in 3e, where the edition really stretched on.

>>97601104
The "Have to move towards the enemy" is doing a lot of work. I was wondering why you can't just use this to stay at short range. I can't read.

>>97599681
It's a neat idea but I don't think you can trigger devil-body through self-harm without a charm. That feels jank to me. And the imperial throne is the most well fortified place in exalted next to Yu-shan so you'd need a better plan and a circle to help you out.

Taking over the imperial mountain is tops idea though - with a certain spell you can even move it around if you wanted to. Shits hilarious. I'm about to say something dumb but The Wandering Earth and Hell-Soothing Reprieve feels like things that I would make and I find that fun.

>>97599805
Yeah I'm going to be real: This entire scheme is predicated on the fact that we know more about how Devil-Bodies work right now than we know about how manses work (nothing outside of hearthstone powers), and the idea that in-universe characters cannot perceive their own character sheets so I would assume the Realm as a whole, which is mainly leery of the Silver Pact because of armies of beastmen and the Lunars leading them NOT supernatural or destructive war assets on par with the RDG itself, would be greatly cowed by someone just showing up and totalling their biggest weapon.

On to addressing my case for why I think that's viable.

>First
So, the EXPANDED Expansive Form rules state that the Infernal can destroy or displace terrain within long range while transforming, can count being 3 range bands closer (but not further away) for attacks, and can count any area in long range as difficult terrain for enemies. The exact nature of this destruction is open-ended (warping space and crushing it like a layer of the Demon City are both given) and only stated that it can be temporary or permanent. As I said, we do not have manse rules. We do not know if manses are still indestructible. For what it's worth, Hand of the Maker SEEMS to imply manses can survive backlash stemming from Solar Circle Sorcery without instantly ceasing to be. But as are as I can tell from RAW, an Infernal transforming atop a manse just flat out squashes the manse with no save. Giving the Infernal major feat of strength-enhancers is just the cherry on top.

>Second
Yeah I kinda fucked up here, will address that in another post. Actually christ I need another post already

>>97599805
>Third
The main idea is the end effect will 1. scare and bruise a lot of important people before 2. either threatening them with a horrific disease or lovebombing them with Psyche effects to make them go along with it. The idea is to do it hard and fast enough while a lot of important people are gathered that once they're all compliant with the Infernal's goals, it takes a lot longer to both mobilise the Realm's war machine and actually find out what happened.

I'm aware Psyche effects aren't...great, but the Infernal can spam them for free, for what it's worth.

>Fourth
Well with the revised Devil-Body that may be a non-issue, but I really like dematerialisation as a stopgap for a lot of physical differences so to split the difference: Let's go with Expansive Form, Dematerialised Form and Overwhelming Passion with Hellish touch. Ouch, that's a lot of points used up. But this is a starting build, after all.

>Second
And here is my actual major fuckup. In my hubris I somehow assumed that an Essence 5 Athletics Charm nearly identical to those Solars and Abyssals also have with prerequisites that make you go fast would, you know, make you go faster.
After reading >>97601087 I am also no longer sure how Rushes are supposed to work. I assume the devs think it's important given Solars, Abyssals and Infernals all can, but damn I might as well invest in Resistance instead. By Pain Reforged, Scar-Writ Saga Shield, Hardened Demon Flesh, Immortal Fiend Invigoration as a stopgap for harm, I suppose. And Nightmare Fugue Vigilance, Murder Is Meat and Incarnate Divinity Appetiser (Gods, elementals) so the Infernal never has to sleep and can eat through killing while lovebombing people.

>>97599805
>You mean war manses?
>That sounds very slow
I'm not sure what I mean desu, because again-total lack of manse rules. Ultimately I think the bare minimum is a recurring artifact that can emulate a refluffed Voice of the Apocalypse (Karvara's nuke) which repaints the terrain with the Infernal instead of Zen-Mu instead. I just assumed that would be a manse not an artifact because it...kinda sounded like a manse effect, but I guess 3e really does not give a fuck about what Evocations can and can't do as long as they vibe with the artifact's basic concept.

>>97601732
>That feels jank
Well, it just says the Infernal has to suffer great physical agony; taking a crippling injury, being tortured and falling into lava are all examples. I chose Azimuth deliberately because the caste has by far the most seemingly flexible activation option unless you really stretch the definition of getting offended. Would asking a friend like Not Lyta to kick the Infernal in the balls be cheese?

>The Wandering Earth
I was thinking Hand of the World-Makers myself (if it was an E5 Infernal and not a starter character as per the prompt) because of how open-ended it sounds. I do wish we had more coherent rules for HOW well defended the imperial mountain is because otherwise I'm kinda spitballing in the dark.

>>97601971
I think the devs want the imperial mountain to be a "you" thing, with its defenses being numinous. I wish we had more ideas on how to design it as well or what all could be inside it and how you'd stat those things up. I don't want a canon "dungeon" for it but I need help.

I'm a bit behind on my lore however so maybe there is more stuff on how the imperial mountain works then I know.

>>97602027
Yeah I agree on that because of how goddamn numinous 3e likes to be, which is why I was comfortable with swatting it using Expansive Form because the devs also seem to want certain Devil-Body powers to be "you" things. I've tried to follow the lore stuff, and the Dragonblooded books/AT8D are a lot more interested in telling you about military deployments, culture and finances than how hard besieging the Imperial Manse is.

I'm not saying Under the Rose was a masterpiece, but I am saying a simple dungeon crawler with First Age robots and STATTED hazards is far preferable to 3e endlessly waffling about meaningful opposition to PCs as what I can only interpret as an overly reactionary response to 2e statting nigh-unbeatable foes. 3e's writeup for Ligier is a welcome step in the right direction, even if I still think he could stand to be a fair bit more impressive.

>>97602061
High level monsters in Exalted 2e are just puzzle bosses. It's nothing new, if anything it's extremely basic. I totally agree with wanting more "usable crunch" if that makes sense. Narrative stuff is fine and I don't WANT a single canon option but I still need mechanics and ideas. It's there mind you, look at the infernals book and all the cool ass places and adventure ideas, I just wish there was more.

>>97602027
>I think the devs want the imperial mountain to be a "you" thing, with its defenses being numinous
The Imperial Manse's defenses were never really made explicit in 1e/2e either. It was just a place the Empress went to regularly to show why people didn't think her disappearance meant her death, which nobody else was able to see into or enter. Also the nuclear codes.

We can assume no combination of second circle demons or direct use of Sidereal charms can get in because interested people who use those (Mnemon, the Gold Faction) have been interested and trying for centuries. We know it's only sometimes lethal. Beyond that it's up in the air afaik.

What exactly is available to Solars from the other books?
They can learn a few different martial arts but not at full potential because they lack some keywords.
What about charms? Can a solar pick charms from the sidereals book, for example?

>>97604142
Martial Arts, sorcery and Artifacts with their Evocations are available, Charms of other kinds of Exalted aren't.

>>97604180
Understood, thank you.

>>97604142
>>97604222
Assuming 3e
There's also a thaumaturgical ritual or two in at8d iirc, and a couple of merits like Divine Heritage and the extra mutations in Lunars. Necromancy from Abyssals is available to Solars up to second circle. If 'other books' means other books aside from Core, there's also a lot of Solar charms in Miracles of the Solar Exalted. There's Eclipse Charms randomly strewn through antagonist sections and bestiaries that Eclipse-caste and/or Divine Heritage Solars can get access to. Finally (I think), Crucible of Legends has alternative rules that might be relevant to a Solar.

>Faultless Ceremony
>When the Sidereal officiates over a ceremony, her actions impart a meaningful bias to destiny within the purview of her Caste. The world will bend in its best attempt to impart happiness and fertility on a couple wed by a Chosen of Serenity; a Chosen of Endings who oversees the conclusion of a dead man’s affairs speeds those affairs toward a swift, equitable, and relatively painless resolution; and a warship launched by a Chosen of Battles will find fortune and opportunity in war, at least up to the point that the influence of happenstance and circumstance can influence its success or failure.
What kinds of ceremonies would fit a Chosen of Secrets?

>>97605271
Vows of silence, thieves whose crimes leave no clue about them, hiding conspiracies, etc...

>>97605271
>ritual blotting out of someone's name due to them being the kind of person whom history should forget (very relevant to the current time of year)
>archeologist ribbon cutting for a new dig site (are there even archeologists in creation?)
>joining or starting a thieves' guild, mystery cult, or other secret society (like the Masons)

>>97605493
>are there even archeologists in creation?
Scavenger Lords.

Can I get like a top 15 best DB charms in 3e? Or at least 10?

Surely it can't even be that hard considering how fucking awful 99% of them seem to be.

>>97608055
The top 25 are the Excellencies themselves, followed by signature charms.

>>97599558
>There doesn't appear to be.
Well, that needs to be rectified ASAP!

>>97608055
>3e Dragon-Blooded Charms
>awful
Are we living on the same planet?

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>>97597595
Exalted 3 or Exalted Essence? Which is more recommended for a total newbie to the system but who's always been interested.

>>97609218
3e has more depth, Essence is a little simpler but more boring.

>>97609218
Essence, probably. It's not my cup of tea, but it's more approachable than 3E, and it's got all the Exalted.

>>97605271
>What kinds of ceremonies would fit a Chosen of Secrets?
Vows of silence (e.g. when you introduce someone to omerta or oversee them signing NDAs), vows of truth (like when you swear to speak the truth and only the truth in court), rituals that guarantee exclusive access to secrets (i.e. filing patents) or throw those secrets into the world (i.e. adding your spell to the Book of Three Circles), induction of a Sidereal into the Bureau of Destiny, final signings of non-public accords, treaties, or backroom deals, almost any work partnership agreement between mystics, the ceremonial construction of shadow manses while preparing to build manses proper, and I'd strongly consider giving it to the first opening of a completed manse.

>>97609218
>Exalted 3 or Exalted Essence? Which is more recommended for a total newbie to the system but who's always been interested.
Essence, definitely.

>>97608219
Lmao wut.

>>97609218
Essence for two reasons: I dislike the fact that the optimal approach in combat is to have a bunch of cheerleaders buffing one guy, and Essence fucking insulted me as an Infernal fan personally.

>>97609218
>>97610643
3e I mean, autocorrect being weird

>>97597595
What’s the best Exalted fanart you are aware of? Because we need more of it!

>>97612645
I would post Admiral's stuff but then I'd get depressed again.

>>97613205
Nothing wrong with being sad buddy, we're here for you if you change your mind.

>>97609218
I'd say either 2e with errata or 3e using whatever splats you want. Essence is way simpler but I don't find that to be a selling point for games myself. They're all pretty okay even if Essence is boring.

If you want something easier to run then use essence but that's only time I'd ever use it personally.

>>97609234
>3e has more depth, Essence is a little simpler but more boring.
NTA, but more detail please.

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>>97612645
artchad of course

>>97605595
And also savants. The line is blurry.

>>97608219
If they think those DB Charms are awful, they should waltz back to 1e and 2e to see what the deebs had to deal with. Extra soak, but not against anything significant like an attack enhanced with Charms or a dangerous sorcery spell! Perfectly parry a non-magical attack!

And then, much like DBT, they then had Defense from Anathema Method, a stupidly broken power that stole every other Charm's lunch. Buy it and be the terror of Solars and Lunars, or leave it alone and suck! Not even the Essence 4 and 5 Resistance soak Charms will be able to save you!

>>97613998
so? doesn't magically make them good in 3e

>>97614206
They're at a level of functionality that the game has never seen.

>>97614256
>>97614206

>>97614206
>so? doesn't magically make them good in 3e
What is it that magically makes DB bad in 3e anon. Their low Essence/dicetrick charms are pretty awful, surely, but that doesn't magically make them bad.

>>97613649
God. From what I remember comboing charms in Essence is less of a thing and more clunky/not intended. Teamwork rolls reign supreme so everyone should be doing that, which isn't an issue but it's a bit boring.

I like to compare it to Mutants and Masterminds. If you like that, you should like essence, unless you really love that exponential growth thing M&M does.

2e and 3e however has a ton of variety and you can make builds that are really "your own". They just feel good when you "get yourself going". All three are very flexible but 2e and 3e are definitely more so mechanically. They have what I call a rock-paper-scissors-bullet element that I think really makes a game good.

If you want the mechanics to be as simple as possible I'd go with essence but again, wasn't really my thing lol.

>>97614461
>From what I remember comboing charms in Essence is less of a thing and more clunky/not intended
It's definitely still a thing, and it was definitely intended, but it's also definitely more clunky. The one-charm-per-step rule is written to put strict limits on the charms you can stack together. The way they did it is pretty clunky, but made a hard upper limit to how much you can stack in a way that didn't exist even when Combos were a thing. It's a huge divergence from 3e's 'stack every dicetrick possible' paradigm to say the least.

>Teamwork rolls reign supreme
Too true. I'm probably going to make them combat-only if my group starts spamming them again. Being able to stack your rolls together without a cap makes everything out of combat way too easy.

>2e and 3e however has a ton of variety and you can make builds that are really "your own". They just feel good when you "get yourself going".
Essence does that as well, now. It only really felt like it didn't when it was just the core, and especially in the preview, because advancement is so stupidly fast and there weren't so many options which meant you could just take everything. Exalted is really bad when PCs get to the stage where they have basically every charm and that's not any different in Essence.

Weird movement/range rules for 3e:

Riding a mount doesn't remove it from the combat order or use up your or it's actions unless you're commanding it to attack. This means that the mount can move a rangeband while you're riding it (moving you), then you can jump off and run forward another rangeband in the same round for two rounds of movement without Rush/Disengage. It is also possible for you and your mount to Disengage or Rush separately, in which case an enemy moving closer to you might move your mount and then optionally also make you move another rangeband away, or an enemy moving away might move your mount closer and then you move another rangeband closer. At my table we have called this technique the launch system, launching, and catapulting.

How far ranges and rangebands go is not mechanically defined, it is narratively defined by comparison to things like fighting space and speaking distance. It is possible for a small character to be within a large character's close or short range bands (i.e. 'in your face, easily close enough to attack with a hand-to-hand weapon', 'close enough the opponent could reach him at a quick sprint') without the large character being in the small character's close/short range bands. If you are attacked by the Palanquin's statues, for example, it's arm range is much further than you can shout, and if it's using Palanquin as a weapon you'd have to cross a city to attack back.

Characters typically move at a regular speed of one rangeband per round unless taking specific combat actions / magical actions to accelerate, usually reliant on other characters (i.e. Rush, Disengage). The Falling rules do not explicitly make an exception to this. Terminal velocity in Exalted is one rangeband per round.

>>97615286
Does dismounting not count as a movement action in itself?

My current game I'm playing a haltan character and filled in a negative intimacy for "linowan: ancestral enemy".

Thing is though, the canon linowan depiction is kinda stupid. Halta are a country the size of china with skilled mages and martial artists, in touch with nature yet not dumbass hippies ignorant of scholarly pursuits. They live in treetop cities and have Fae allies and animal scouts and spies.

Linowan are canoe Indians who hate technology with no scholarly traditions. They have a certain degree of "supersoldier eugenics" from the tinkering of a first age solar, but the impact of that seems kind of minimal on practice. How in the fuck have these guys kept a war with halta going for 700 years?

My group and storyteller agree that they need a bit of a homebrew tune up to make sense, any ideas for that?

>>97615387
I mean the simplest answer is secret support from exalts. There's a Sidereal who loved the Exalt that worked on the Linowans in the first age and provides behind the scenes support in finance, logistics, etc. to fend off the more powerful aggressor without directly intervening.

>>97615321
It's never said to be an action of any kind, so if it was going to be anything other than something you do as part of a movement action, it'd be a miscellaneous action. That would still make you able to catapult, it's just also be taking a combat action and thus making it slightly less good in a charge.

>>97615387
>My group and storyteller agree that they need a bit of a homebrew tune up to make sense, any ideas for that?
The Realm backs them. Make that backing more firm, maybe throw in something about Wood Aspects being able to seize control of them or work their charms better through them to justify their persistent interest. Beyond that, their trees aren't traversable like the Haltan redwoods, so any attack needs to come on the ground, and the Fair Folk know that. Many Fae go after Haltan invasions like foxes after grounded pigeons.

>>97615387
3E doesn't portray Halta as,wildly out of scale with its supposed arch-enemy as 1E post Kingdom of Halta and 2E did, so in this particular matter I'd just suggest going with 3E lore.

>>97615546
nta 3e also presents Haltans as terminally stupid so forgive me if I think your opinion is wrong.
>Food is rarely cooked, lest fire spread to the tree.
>pg67 At8D
That's a 3e original right there. Their redwood's fire resistance is harped on regularly throughout 1e/2e and fire is so not a problem when they're properly prepared that they have the trained non-sapient monkeys stoking their forge fires unattended.
>Animals such as forest baboons, giant wolf spiders and many similar creatures actually perform much of the simple manual labor in Halta. Trained animals harvest fruits and nuts, carry messages, stoke forge fires, clean and perform a wide range of similar tasks
>pg24 KoH
The whole splinter kingdoms coming off Halta also disappeared, and that's the kind of thing that adds a lot of depth to a setting.

>>97616152
That's is a fair but pretty minor point, and doesn't change the fact that the scale and dynamics of Halta and the Linowan seem a lot more sensible in 3E than in 1E/2E. I'd actually be more sympathetic if you complained about 3E's Linowan writeup instead, as I personally found the way Linowan royalty works in 3E to be pretty silly.

>>97616200
>as I personally found the way Linowan royalty works in 3E to be pretty silly.
How does it work? Is it as nonsensical as Varang's castes/spheres?

>>97616200
>That's is a fair but pretty minor point
I don't know about minor. I only know about it because someone else ranted about it, which says something since that's the only thing I've heard about 3e's Halta comes from you and translates to it being thoroughly enshittified. I haven't done more than control-F and skim for either Linowan or Halta in At8D. It's enough to know it fits the standard of writing for 3e/At8D and move on because my eyes are glazing over. I read the sections relevant to the areas I play in and avoid it like the plague otherwise.

>>97615387
Make Halta smaller, more isolated, and less advanced technologically, while the Linnowan have much more contact with the rest of Creation, and have relatively advanced tech like steel and firedust weapons.

>>97616233
>I have never read the 3e lore on Halta, but I know it is shit because some guy on /exg/ whined about it

>>97616322
I have skimmed the 3e lore on Halta, so I know that it's shit. I think that the fire thing is not a minor problem because some guy whining about it is 50% of the discussion.

>>97616231
Their royalty consists of the greatest masters of each skill, with high queen being chosen from among this merit-based royalty through a series of contests of skill. There is, for instance, a guy whose title is entertainer-royal, who's currently the most venerated singer among the Linowan. Obviously it builds on the previosuly established merit-based nobility of the Linowan, but I feel like it takes that whole concept too far, making meritocracy and pursuit of excellency the Linowan hat in a way that makes it feel less like a living, breathing, could-plausibly-exist society. Previously Linowan nobility was determined by achievement - though generally by feats of daring and martial prowess than just skill in any pursuit - but royalty was passed on within the royal clan, not through strict rules of successiopn but through the royal clan's matriarch naming her own successor. That felt more believable to me.

>>97616233
It's take a lot to enshittiify Halta compared to how it was handled in the previous editions. I do agree that the danger of forest fires is exaggerated, but I don't remember anything else particularly dumb in the Haltan writeup, and for once it's actually believable that the Linowan might be equal opponents to Halta, and that in itself is enough for me to forgive what is, again, a fairly minor spot of stupidity.

>>97616351
Most of the discussion on 3E Halta I've seen is just "well, at least it's not 2E Halta".

>>97616152
I was one of the first niggas in the community to complain about this change, I still don't get why they insisted on food rarely being cooked while also saying they have an "Oi mate you got a loisence for that kitchen?".

Leaving aside how much that writeup overestimates the danger of wood fires, why the fuck wouldn't society have communal large canteens to address it?

>>97616363
I don't see Halta being bent over backward to make Linowan relevant as an upside or improvement, so...

>>97616495
>Leaving aside how much that writeup overestimates the danger of wood fires, why the fuck wouldn't society have communal large canteens to address it?
Not a fuckin clue. Completely ignores every other use of fire as well. Maybe they just saw coldwood in 1e and because you aren't allowed to have fun exotic materials that actually do anything in 3e they figured with it gone Haltans would have no way to do the thing they used it for.

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halta's main advantages over the Linowan in this edition is dubious Raksha alliance and trained animals. Linowans have masks that give magic.

In previous editions Halta had a million people and Lightning Ballistae and Lunars had a penchant for defending it + Bull in the North, while Linowans had maybe a DB who'd show up sometimes.

3e Halta isn't too bad, it's just the fire thing is pretty distracting.

>>97616495
Simplest and most likely explanation is just that writers wanted to make a tree-based culture distinct from ground-based cultures and didn't think things through beyond their first inuitive ideas on how things might work.

>>97616519
>I don't see Halta being bent over backward to make Linowan relevant as an upside or improvement, so...
If by "Halta being bent over backwards" you mean "Halta being on about the same level as other regional powers rather than on a whole different level of its own", then I'd sure as fuck consider that a straighforward improvement.

>>97616521
>In previous editions Halta had a million people
More like tens of millions of people. It has more than a million people in its capital alone. I think it had a standing army of more than a million people. The dumbest thing about 3E writeup being an exaggarated and poorly thought out fear of fire is an immense improvement to the previous Haltan writeups.

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Can someone clear up something for me regarding Halta? In 2e there was a piece of art that appeared to be in Halta and they had elf ears...is this ever a thing that's talked about in any writeup or were the artists just being playful?

>>97616578
IIRC there are some pieces of art where Dragon-Blooded have elf ears. Maybe some 2E artist just like drawing them. I don't think they're really supposed to be a Haltan thing. 2E, at least, mentions green hair and unusually prehensile toes as Haltan physical peculiarities, but doesn't say anything about their ears

>>97616495
>Leaving aside how much that writeup overestimates the danger of wood fires, why the fuck wouldn't society have communal large canteens to address it?
It is a modern WW; White Wolf writers are extremely atomized, despite of their desire of doing so, they aren't capable of writing communities or communal activities.

>>97616554
>"Halta being on about the same level as other regional powers rather than on a whole different level of its own"
Do you think Halta wasn't supposed to be the greatest power in it's region by far? That was intentional. There was an entire book about it. I don't know why it makes people freak out that there might be powerful nations outside the Realm and Scavenger Lands but yes, Halta was one. It's big and relatively well populated, but not outstandingly so on the world scale, wow, so immersion breaking.

If you're expanding Halta's 'region' to include the Scavenger Lands, while it was supposed to be greater than any single city-state, taken as a whole the Scavenger Lands dogs on Halta with no contest, whether in terms of population, economy, or military power.

>>97616692
What a ridiculously pseudointellectual armchair psychologist take. The real answer is most likely just this: >>97616524
>Simplest and most likely explanation is just that writers wanted to make a tree-based culture distinct from ground-based cultures and didn't think things through beyond their first inuitive ideas on how things might work.

>>97616578
>In 2e there was a piece of art that appeared to be in Halta and they had elf ears
Fae have elf ears. This is common throughout their art. Not for any particular reason, they can take on almost any form they like so long as they've got the right assumption, but presumably Fair Folk find elf ears fashionable or something. Lots of Fair Folk in and around Halta means more Fae-Blooded equals more humans with elf ears.

>>97616720
Sure. As I said, a regional power. Now it's on scale with other regional powers, which is good. Previously it wasn't, which was bad. People have been bitching about Halta since Kingdom of Halta was published for a reason. And no, Halta actually can't be the greatest power in its region by far while also having an ongoing feud where neither side has an obvious advantage with the Linowan. Halta by itself being comparable to one of the major powers of the Scavenger Lands, rather than being greater than any of those powers by itself, seems about right to me.

>>97616726
It is just a trend in post original WW's demise works, WW's successors moved to "personal, community and found families" themes, but their attempts end up feeling empty and/or disjointed.

It is noticeable that 3e moved to a community/local direction, but similar to the concept of culture hero, the writers cannot fully grasp it.

>>97616748
>As I said, a regional power. Now it's on scale with other regional powers, which is good. Previously it wasn't, which was bad.
No? This is like saying that because Ming dynasty China was isolated it shouldn't have been more powerful than the other nations in it's region.

>And no, Halta actually can't be the greatest power in its region by far while also having an ongoing feud where neither side has an obvious advantage with the Linowan
But Halta did have an obvious advantage against the Linowan. Literally everybody was talking about it. I don't get your complaints.

>>97616810
>But Halta did have an obvious advantage against the Linowan. Literally everybody was talking about it. I don't get your complaints.
It had an obvious advantage from an OOC perspective. That advantage was not predsent at all in the actual dynamic between Halta and Linowa. That's my complain. It's the most common complain made about previous editions Halta - that it makes no sense for Halta and Linowa to be equal enemies, but that's what they're written as. You're bound to have seen that complaint made countless times if you've spend time in places where people talk about Exalted, and I straight up don't believe that you don't get that complaint.

>>97609218
This poor man, someone cut the pockets off his pants.

>>97617034
No wonder he looks a bit pissed off.

Didn't the Haltans used to sacrifice the Fire aspected Dragon-Blooded they birthed?
I don't know if this is actually stated in one of the books or just something that was said in the thread and I just adopted it as fact.

>>97616521
Can Lunars get this big?

t. giantess fag

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>>97617034
These are speedholes, they make the exalted go faster.

>>97617034
Fuck with the God of Pockets, lose your cash.

>>97617059
I can't find such a mention anywhere, but I just quickly skimmed 2E's CoTD: East's section of Halta, so I'm not going to say it's impossible that something like that's stated somewhere. The section of Haltan Essence-users just says that "Haltans regard their native Dragon Blooded very highly", though.

Completely unrelated to that question: just why the fuck is a nation ruled by a monarch called the REPUBLIC of Halta? I mean, I guess it can be res publica while also being a kingdom, but it still seems weird to me.

>>97617078
>Completely unrelated to that question: just why the fuck is a nation ruled by a monarch called the REPUBLIC of Halta? I mean, I guess it can be res publica while also being a kingdom, but it still seems weird to me.
I dunno, let's go to Best Korea and ask their leader.

>>97617066
Theoretically. Lunars have charms that allow them to grow to Legendary Size but there's no ruling on how that big it makes you.

>>97617093
I mean, Best Korea at least shallowly pretends to not be a monarchy. They don't outright call their leader "king". Halta does - granted, it's an elective monarchy, but the monarch is elected from a given family. Just, where's the republic part coming from? It's not like Creation even has any firm, widespread democratic traditions that'd give people a reason to pay lip service to democracy, and Halta doesn't really seem to have any republican institutions. It's a semi-elective, semi-hereditary monarchy where the monarch is elected by and shares power with an oligarchic nobility - not a hereditary nobility, merit-based, but not an elected one. It just doesn't seem very similar to, say the Roman Republic, or any other republic I know of.

>>97617078
>Completely unrelated to that question: just why the fuck is a nation ruled by a monarch called the REPUBLIC of Halta? I mean, I guess it can be res publica while also being a kingdom, but it still seems weird to me
This is how Poland used to work, with its elected kings.

>>97617078
>Completely unrelated to that question: just why the fuck is a nation ruled by a monarch called the REPUBLIC of Halta? I mean, I guess it can be res publica while also being a kingdom, but it still seems weird to me.
Funnily enough, the "Republic of Halta" appears to have been a 1e->2e change. In 1e it's only ever called the Kingdom of Halta (literally the name of the book) and the Haltan Republic. Not sure what the significance was or if 2e devs just didn't notice but it's something.

Anyway yeah, Halta is a kingdom and also the leadership gets voted on so it gets called a republic, iirc usually by insiders/citizens who feel like their vote matters rather than outsiders who just see another monarchy.
>The Council of Nobles, with the advice of the current queen, elects the new queen.
>Many have commented that Halta is a meritocracy disguised as a monarchy. However, nobility in Halta is not hereditary — all nobles win their station through a rigorous competition.
>Every three years, the residents of a noble’s district are asked to rate the performance of the noble in a secret allot. The nobles must make these ratings public, and the Queen and her appointed advisors offer boons and reprimands based both upon these ratings and upon a review of the noble’s performance by the senior nobles.

So what's the deal with Halta and Linowa?

>>97618330
Writers decided to subvert expectations and made the arboreal people into a local super power, but they exaggerated so much that it became dysfunctional in the eyes of the fanbase.

>>97618476
Yeah but what's their deal? History, culture, that kinda thing. Why are they at war anyway?

>>97597595
Weekly Update
>Final Drafts
Alchemicals Companion: Avatars of Brass and Shadow
Lots of Exalted updates! First, Alchemicals Companion is done with redlining and is off to final drafts!
>Editing
Sidereals Jumpstart
Next, the Sidereals Jumpstart is off to editing!
Infernals
Finally, the big one: Infernals is off to editing! Woo!
>Art Direction
Essence PG – Contracted
>Layout
Alchemicals – I’m getting on this shortly, just clearing up some stragglers
>Press
Exigents – Shipping to fulfillment shippers
that's the most substantive update we've had tis year. finally some explanation of the alchemicals delay, and yes a host of supplements for other onyx path stuff has been rushing from layout to launch. maybe in a couple months we'll have a preview
what's neat about this update to me is the infernals to editing change, yes for infernals itself but also more than that. longtime observers will note than when an exalted splat book finishes primary development - around the time they reach editing - outlines on the next splat begin. yes it's one of those splats oldheads hate because they're oldheads, but the question is which one?
it also sounds like exigents printing and shipping has gone rather well. this means their year long backlog of shipped products will start being chipped away at, meaning eventual delivery of sidereals/abyssals and alchemicals once it's finished
if you've ordered it and still want to make changes, this is your last window, link is here
https://www.indiegogo.com/en/projects/onyxpathpublishing/exigents-out-of-the-ashes-for-exalted-3rd-edition/updates/70

>>97618527
>this means their year long backlog of shipped products will start being chipped away at
Oh finally. I've been waiting for my copies of Curseborne, Storypath Ultra, The World Below, At the Gates, and Monster Kingdoms for long enough that they're kickstarting other books in the series before they've even fully come out. I ain't gonna pay money for the second book for a game before I even read the first, and maybe not even then. (Yes, I could read the PDFs. No, I'm not going to.)

I could have sworn I saw somewhere which one it was supposed to be of Getimians and Liminals but I can't find anything now when I look, so maybe I hallucinated it. Either would be interesting because they're both ideas I'd be open to adding in to my hypothetical 2e game, but I'm slightly more interested in Getimians. I'm astonished they made Exigents before those.

>>97618856
>I'm astonished they made Exigents before those.
Exigents was meant to be one of the earliest books, so the fans of the other splats could have the tools to port their favorites to 3e while they were waiting for the official versions.

Ignore the part of the splats receiving ports long before the Exigents' crowdfunding went up.

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So what are some good charms to rush if you're a Twilight with Supernal Lore?

>>97619338
Wyld Shaping and that one charm that gives you XP for knowing math. But honestly if you're a Twilight that's not Craft Supernal, you are intentionally making bad choices for flavor and there's no point trying to "optimize"

>>97619401
To be fair, once you have infinite exp from lore charms, you will wouldn't have a need for supernal anymore.

>>97618500
haltan are a lunar project, lives in trees, breed intelligent animals.

linowan are a first age dawn caste project.
river dwellers, genetic soldiers but because of the ususrpation, they are stuck in aggro mode.

>>97619401
Can't you crack open Solar Craft at E2, though? Seems like a waste of a Supernal

>>97619633
If you have to wait for E2, then the E1 supernal has already won

>>97619567
>Haltan
>Lunar project

One of the worst decisions ever made in Exalted writing and development. The herald of all the dumb shit from 2e to come.

>>97620270
It is from 1e...

>One of the worst decisions ever made in Exalted writing
Not even the top 10, and this being generous and excluding anything not related to Lunars

>>97618856
Art direction is the bottle neck because they go to the malaysian sweat shop instead of a proper set of artists.

>>97619338
the nuke charm

>>97610648
>>97610643
3e looked like plenty of fun for Infernals, though, from what we saw of that kickstarter preview?

Isn't Halta basically a rain forest anyways how the hell would a fire even start and spread if everything is just damp live wood. At most you're losing some leaves before it puts itself out.

Maybe it's just very... dry for some reason. Which would be dumb, cus live wood is wet af.

>>97621151
It's not a rain forest, but sure, live wood not being that flammable is exactly the reason people think Haltans being so scared of fire is dumb.

>>97621208
Fires should still be an issue but no more and possibly even quite a bit less then what we have to worry about in the modern world imo. They still need a fire department and such though because well, that's just life.

>>97621151
Many writers who work for WW and everything descended from them are basically these people from the city who have no clue what they're talking about outside of their own view of things.

>>97621282
They seem to be super into rome and greek stuff as well. It'd explain why everything is super gay but only in a really old way. It's funny, as much as people don't want more christian stuff in this game I don't want more roman shit.

I think christian and catholic and mormon stuff in games is real neato, I totally understand why you don't want more of it in exalted then what is already there. Rome should be the same fucking thing.

I'd like more ancestor worship stuff if I were to pick anything to focus/add into the game.

>>97621390
The Realm should at least not have those ships.

>>97619338
>So what are some good charms to rush if you're a Twilight with Supernal Lore?
Power-Awarding Prana. It's super deep at 13 charms, but it's worth it. As Supernal Lore it basically gets you every charm if you have the time and motes to invest and prepare for it, since nothing stops you activating it multiple times. It lets you break Essence minimums by +1 on every other Ability. It's even fully Stackable so you can dig deep into whatever charm tree you want even without having much of any investment in it.

If you think the nuke charms in Lore are good, then congrats, if you have Power-Awarding Prana then you can use them any time you want. And also all the Wyld-Shaping charms. And also the obscenely bullshit Evocation awakening charms. And also if you have a couple dots in a situational Ability like, say, Medicine, Bureaucracy, Investigation, Survival, or so on, then suddenly you're about as good a medicine-man, merchant, detective, traveller, and so on as somebody with ~5-7 charms in their field, whenever you need to be. You can swap around your loadout, so while they've dug deeper in the tree you've got all of the options available.

Also all of the prerequisites are training charms, which you will quickly find are absolutely broken busted bullshit obscene strong if you start dumping all of your splat xp into teaching your circle charms: since you can get into the first three or four charms of any tree with Power-Awarding Prana and teach those, absolutely everybody is going to want to take your training, even if it's just to pick up some stuff lower on the tree that they skipped while shooting for capstones with Supernal.

I don't understand what the Bureaucracy skill actually does.

>Law stuff
That's just Lore (Law). You either know the law or you don't.
>Accounting
You need a skill to count? At most you might need Linguistics to put it in coherent writing.
>Organizing stuff
How is that not just Presence or Socialize? And even those shouldn't be necessary in most cases, you can just tell people what to do.
>Selling stuff
Again, Presence or Socialize.

>>97622100
It actually is law stuff and organizing. Being good at talking doesn't make you good at organizing things, neither in real life nor in Exalted, and there's more in successfully and effectively organizing people than telling them what to do. Bureaucracy's also accounting, as there is more than straughtforward counting to it, of course. It's understanding organizations, markets and other such systems.

>>97622100
Just giving core parts of it to another ability obviously makes it look less useful. I could say steering a ship should be in Athletics instead of Sail because its physically demanding and that guts Sail the same way, but that's not the way it works

>>97622100
>organising stuff
>shouldn't be necessary in most cases, you can just tell people what to do.
"Why is Lore necessary when I know the lore", kind of question. "Why is Investigation necessary when I can put the pieces together without rolling", "If my character shot them in the head why roll damage, that should be an instant kill", "Why is Medicine necessary when I can just diagnose illnesses and proscribe treatment myself"

>>97622118
>>97622652
>>97623029
Did you really need to reply to me 3 times?

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>>97623034
>there's no way more than one person could disagree with my retarded opinion

>>97623078
You're not slick.

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>>97623034
>Did you really need to reply to me 3 times?

>>97619338
I'm gonna ask the same question for but an Occult Supernal Eclipse.

>>97623214
Out of curiosity, was it explained why Eclipses gained Occult in 3e?

>>97623256
Presumably to make it easier for them to act as diplomats to gods, fae, and demons. Can't interact with them very wel if you don't have the charms to even see them.

>>97623034
Why even ask a question if you're just going to get upset about more than one person actually answering you, anon?

>>97623256
I don't know if it's been explained by the devs, but the diplomat caste that's supposed to deal with, among other things, various kinds of spirits getting the Ability that's largely about dealing with spirits seems pretty straightforward to me.

>>97623256
Why didn't the caste for diplomats and explorers get Survival? Why didn't the caste that's supposed to speak to gods and negotiate with spirits get Performance, which governs prayer?

Ultimately it's because Eclipse is and always has been a wastebasket for people to throw trash they didn't have a plan for into and that didn't change in 3e.

>>97616312
Yeah "nerf halta" isn't a solution for buffing linowan, especially since the campaign is already in motion lol.

>>97623214
Anyone?

>>97621893
>swiss army solar
nice

>>97616858

Guy who asked for advice in the first place here: I kinda like halta being the size of china with some interesting advantages from the combo of subtle lunar patronage and being the only power to survive the balorian crusade via diplomacy with the Fae.

The big issue is very much just the fact that Linowan are kinda pathetic, in my eye. They're a dumbed down stereotype of a specific narrow type of native american, with their only advantage being some vague statements about a solar eugenics project.

>>97623657
You definitely should both nerf Halta and buff Linowan until they meet at a halfway point where both make sense and can work as meaningful but not insurmountable opposition to each other. If too much about canon Halta has already been established as being true at the table already for that to be an option, though...Well, Linowan need bigger numbers, for one. Buff Linowan masks a bit, and let them make lesser but still efficacious talismans as sort of a lesser application of the same skill and knowledge that goes to their mask-making. Maybe expand on their ferocity in combat to come up with some kind of a berserker tradition and let them, I dunno, get highg on mushrooms and ignore wound penalties while also getting bonus die to physical rolls, or let them get possessed by local spirits of war or ghosts of great dead Linowan warriors or something and channel their power. If nerfing Halta is a no-no, just let the Linowan have low-level but fairly common magic of some sort that'll even the odds. Or alternatively just let the hardened Linowan savages be innately superior to the decadent Haltan civilization, like a bunch of Conans on canoes.

>>97623753
I don't personally have a problem with the basic idea of a Threshold civilization the size of Halta, but I just kind of feel like it being both that big and tree-based is a bit too much specialness for one place, and that Halta's size somewhat detracts from the fact that a tree-sized civilization would be an immense achievement even if it was a lot, lot smaller than Halta is. I'll note that the Linowan are also long-distance travellers and traders, though, so they've got that at least going on for them.

Had my first run using the essence quickstart, was a lot of fun considering it was just a short brawl with a couple of players to test the system out. We had to work around some stuff with the abyssal mage because some rulings of his spells weren't fleshed out, but the exigent carried the day.
I had them navigate to the water manse to investigate the water corruption by the abyssals, they were quickly confronted and fighting ensued. A few rounds later the water was on its way to recovering and there were abyssal bits floating in the river. I'm probably going to continue the story for a bit to allow another player to try the system out, most likely involving some other premade PCs as NPCs, then we'll move to another edition and create new PCs from scratch.

>>97624553
Janest or a homebrew one?

>>97624922
We used the premades, it was janest. Her kit looked fun (and strong) on paper when I was reading the pregens, but that coupled with some good rolling was something else. Three NPCs abyssals didn't manage to do much. I could have handled them a little differently tactics-wise I suppose, but it was the first time for me as well so I was just testing things out.

What are the best charms or spells to deal with a flood?

>>97616741
>but presumably Fair Folk find elf ears fashionable or something.
With how meta they can get, they probably know that Fae are expected to have ears like that, lol.

>>97626333
Personally or geographically? Most splats can no-sell an elemental damage like a flooded room for example

>>97626529
Geographically, "controlling floods" was an important aspect of imperial China.

>>97623390
>Survival

They don't strictly need it. Sail is used for navigation, so they could determine their position anywhere in Creation (the same method is in use everywhere, using a jade compass to determine the direction of the Imperial Mountain).

>Performance

Prayer, and leading large groups in it, is the Zenith's job. Eclipses tend to be more personal and behind the scenes - that can make a deal with a god with prayer as a promise, and they can set up a society that prays (This is what Socialize is good for, along with Linguistics), but they're not going to micromanage that shit if they're expected to treat with gods. That takes up vast amounts of time, because gods don't really pay attention to it and work on schedules highly inconvenient to humans.

>>97626333
The standard craft artifact combo.

>>97626541
Then its a sorcerous working, that's your main method for reshaping landscapes

>>97626333
>>97626541
>What are the best charms or spells to deal with a flood?
Ramparts of Obedient Earth seems like a clear winner. It's one of those flexible charms that can be useful in a wide range of scenarios, so lots of Dragonblooded want it anyway, and it fits this role perfectly. In sorcery the terrestrial circle is either not enough with canon spells or not fast enough (Raising the Earth's Bones can do similar to Ramparts of Obedient Earth, but it takes quarter hours per cast) since floods are usually scary because they come rampaging through with effectively zero warning. Going up to second circle sorcery, it's going to be Torrential Cascade for the flavor win, literally controlling the flood.

>"5 dots in an attribute/ability is totally special bro"
>the elite mortal soldier statblock has 5+5 in dex and melee
>you can get thousands of these dudes at chargen
>you can mass produce them with an e2 charm

Is this like Lord of Light?

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>>97627898

>>97627898
Not in almost any way. The most you could say is that the gods in Lord of Light act like (not 'have powers like') gods in Heaven. The powers of gods in Exalted are also kind of like divine attributes (not divine aspects) in Lord of Light.

The story is in no way similar and the themes are absolutely not coherently mergeable. Lord of Light is science fantasy following an arc where Buddhism is central and right among a Hindu world, and Exalted somehow picked up almost none of those undertones when it was riffling through wuxia's pockets.

>>97627893
>"5 dots in an attribute/ability is totally special bro"
This is only said in 3e, where the rest of your stuff isn't the case anyway. You're right that it's not actually special in 3e if you take the world as presented and not the world as the developers would want you to understand it, but that's neither here nor there.

>>97627893
Are you considering the fact that if elite soldier was a PC, his attack pool would include weapon's Accuracy and most likely a Specialty? I agree that the statblock is overtuned, and beyond that, using the same stats for an elite soldier and a mortal champion seems pretty dumb. Still, from what I remember that statblock isn't quite on the level of an optimized mortal with a medium weapon.

>>97627898
No, but Mahasamatman is a great Zenith

>>97627913
>and Exalted somehow picked up almost none of those undertones when it was riffling through wuxia's pockets.
Exalted isn’t what it claims to be, wuxia, anime, dunsany, etc... references are just trappings to disguise its true Moorcockian nature.

>>97628298
That's why I didn't describe it as wuxia, I described it as riffling through wuxia's pockets. Wuxia does commonly have buddhist themes and actually just outright buddhism floating around, mostly because of Journey to the West having it as ultimately superior to everything else even in a mashup with taoism, confucianism, and local religions. Exalted doesn't, but it does grab a lot of things from the genre beyond supernatural martial arts.

>>97623214
Anyone?

>>97628475
Uncanny Shroud Defense and go pick up something that can make you health levels in combat like Injury-Forcing Technique, Feit of Imparted Nature, or Wound-Knitting Exercise - is what I'd say, but they're all high Essence comparatively so what's the fucking point. Take the charm anyway since it's the best thing Occult's got.

Occult is not a good option for Supernal, as Abilities go.

>>97628642
>Occult is not a good option for Supernal, as Abilities go.
Shame. But thank you regardless.

>>97628642
They should really let you take Celestial and Solar circle sorcery as an Occult Supernal, but with the caveat that you only get your control spell until you reach E3/5 as supernal covers charms, not spells.

>>97628912
It's a real shame because my Eclipse concept was being a tribal shaman type who is exceedingly competent at dealing with all sorts of spirits and strange creatures on his people's behalf. But if Occult isn't a good supernal to fit that concept I'm not sure what is.

>>97629072
That's Presence with a few Occult charms.

>>97629090
Wasn't Performance the one you use for praying to spirits?

>>97629103
Performance is for prayer / worship, negotiation would be presence and socialize

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I miss this motherfucker so much

>>97630671
I vaguely remember something about a catdaiclave but I don't remember the details and google isn't showing much.

>>97631617
>When a visitor to Cat Forest truly impresses the Suzerainess as a person of great virtue, as judged from her unique perspective, she may bestow upon that per-son a gift. Endowments may include artifacts (she once gave a daiklave made of cats), delicious and long-lasting food, enhanced senses or a cat as a companion.
Compass of Celestial Directions: The Wyld pg131

>>97597595
I use my/Sandact's Solar revamp for Solars. Or at bare minimum the crafting system. Holy fuck I hate the RAW 3e crafting system so much. I'd take 2e's crafting system back (with crafting fields as specialties) in a heartbeat

>>97632598
>I'd take 2e's crafting system back (with crafting fields as specialties) in a heartbeat
It sucks that Crucible made a simplified crafting system with a single, all encompassing craft ability and a much better take on craft XP, but could not create any Craft charms for it.

>>97632479
This right here.
This is what 3e is missing.

>>97620785
Yeah not sure if I was clear but I fucked that up, 3e is definitely preferable for Infernals.

>>97620770
God-King's Shrike is weird in that it's simultaneously inapplicable in any reasonable timeframe, can be negated by any Celestial Exalt with a specific anti-God-King's Shrike Charm, and if it does hit then nothing in the current system is really prepared to represent the mechanical consequences of it. It's basically Introducing a Fact(TM) that the ST has to scrap whatever plans he had for that region and write how it's going to shit.

>>97633511
>God-King's Shrike
Prophet of Seventeen Cycles is ultimately better in basically every way. It fires faster, after a day instead of a week, which is a timeframe most games actually run stories rather than downtime in. It's discriminatory in that it targets exactly what you want to and nothing more, and it applies both bonuses to people supporting your plans and troubles to your opposition rather than only troubles. It also applies equally well in and out of combat, can generate positive outcomes as well as negative ones, whereas Shrike is a pure demolition tool. The main problem with it is exactly the same as the problem with Dogstar Ruminations, in that it's up to fiat what actually happens and how bad it is.

>>97633660
To be fair, isn't it only able to target ongoing projects? And not, for example, another Exalt who is just chilling or travelling or is simply waiting for your duel to commence.

>>97633817
>another Exalt who is just chilling or travelling or is simply waiting for your duel to commence.
Ongoing projects is either not defined at all, or is based on Leadership projects in which case it might as well not be defined at all. The way that everything other than the ongoing project sentence is written definitely seems like it could be used on pretty much anything. At the very least an Exalt who is travelling can almost certainly have their travel (which is an ongoing project) disrupted since the one example given specifically for Prophet of Seventeen Cycles is Mnemon moving vs not moving her army. You should be able to predict that Sir Braver Exalt will not attend their duel because of suspected treachery (attending the duel is an ongoing project/goal) or that Chill Guy Exalt's ongoing attempt to chill will be called off in favor of greater matters (attempting to chill is an ongoing project/goal).

>>97597595
Monthly Update
>Predevelopment
Infernals Companion
Essence Extended
>First Draft
Essay Collection lol last seen here
>Redlines
Even the Heavens Will Burn (Essence Player’s Guide novella)
>Second/Final Draft
For the March Lords (Essence Player’s Guide novella)
Alchemicals Companion: Avatars of Brass and Shadow
>Development
Essence Storyteller’s Guide
>Editing
Sidereals Jumpstart
Infernals: Crowned by Hellfire
>Post-Editing Development
Riders from the Sunless Lands: The Abyssals Companion
>Art Notes Prep
Agents of Heaven (Sidereals Companion)
Champions of the Divine Flame
Infernals: Crowned by Hellfire
>Art Direction
Essence Player’s Guide
>Layout
Sidereals Storyteller Screen
Abyssals Storyteller Screen
Alchemicals: Forged by the Machine God
>Press
Exigents Storyteller Screen: At Studio2
Exigents: Out of the Ashes: Shipping to fulfillment shippers
Sidereals: Quoting
slow progress most of the month with a burst at the end. the highlight is the beginning of exigent shipping in the next week and after that the deliver of other extant onyx path books. as i noted here >>97618527 infernals reaching editing may indicate either liminals/getimians being prepped for production relatively soon, but that is just a trend i've seen happen

>>97597595
testing

Remind me, is God King Shrike a charm where you're deliberately calling a a biblical plague down on your enemies like you're Moses, or you more like Superman's dad predicting his own homeplanets destruction?

>>97634346
You predict it, and your solar magic rewrites Fate to make it occur

>>97634346
Much more the former than the latter. You aren't actually predicting anything and you are 100% calling down calamity, but it can look like you are from an outside perspective unless some specific interactions happen to prove that it is the Solar making it happen rather than predicting it's happening. Sequential Essence Disruption (which targets 'ongoing magical effects') turns it off and cancels the doom, for example.

>>97634346
The latter, despite making more sense as the former.

I blame it on the "charms don't exist in universe".

>>97634485
If charms don't exist, then how do charm swapping powers / eclipse anima work?

>>97634591
The devs didn't think about it, neither they thought about how to deal with Alchemicals and Sidereals.

>>97633501
I think I get what you mean, but is it just a sense of whimsy, of the possibilities? Is it the ability for the material to not have to take itself seriously and forget about keeping things numinous™? I could just say soul, but it's hard to make that my mindset if I was going to run the game. Am I thinking too much about the process vs the outcome here?
(My first exposure to Exalted was Keychain of Creation, and a daiclave made of cats seems like something that would fit in it's setting, which was always just vague enough to make me want more).

>>97598981
Social skills and artifact crafting will get you there no matter what you do. Put all merits into contacts and retainers. Maybe get Ride and Survival for convenience.

>>97635279
Maybe a reachableness? Even when it has mechanics, 3e's add-ons feel out of reach from players or/and STs.

>>97608200
the artist has several doodles and sketches of exalted characters, and recently he posted finished version of the Maiden of Journeys: https://www.reddit.com/user/pantaipong/submitted/

Ok, the test run was succesful, now I have another player lined up to try the system out, so next session is probably going to use the same characters plus the new one, and we'll move on from where we left off. The thing is, I have the core book for when we branch out from the essence quickstart and start making new OCs, but I already know there's one guy who wants to play a lunar and another one wants an abyssal. Should I have them create some solars with the core book and then convert them, or should I just wait for the splats to arrive?
>you can have all the books at your fingertips
I have them already, ok to read when you're in lunch break, but I prefer physical books while I play.

>>97636101
Just make use of pdfs until physical books arrive, anon. I fully understand preferring physical books, but I don't think that preferrence is enough reason to either have okayers make Solars instead of what they actually want to play or to wait for the physical books to arrive. It's better for the players to get familiar with their preferred splats now rather than later. Just switch to using physical books when you have them.

>>97636146
That makes sense...I will have to bite the bullet then. I still haven't checked all the books so I had no idea how different the splats are, that's why I asked. Thank you anon.

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Are there any print friendly sheets for E3 around? I got a group of friends interested in it and I'd like to run it for them; but all the sheets have a fuckton of color and details and bullshit.

I just want a B&W thing I can print and show them.

>>97636695
>Are there any print friendly sheets for E3 around?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OnLm5Ep35IPuc5YTFf6Gkk14uiwLTWnWeF41Cj8wzbo
is a spreadsheet and looks like it - not good looking, but printable. For something nicer I would have to try removing the background from the official one.

There are so many roundabout ways for a Solar to put an intimacy into you it kind of begs the question of what the fuck is even the point of Presence/Socialize.

Should I have more than 1 Stamina as a mortal PC or can I count on my ST to forget the bleeding rules?

>>97638870
>Should I have more than 1 Stamina as a mortal PC or can I count on my ST to forget the bleeding rules?
It's less the bleeding rules I'd be worried about, or even the infection rules, and more the disease rules in general. If your Stamina+Resistance is low enough the Storyteller can at any time make your character go to bed and stop interfering with their plans. If you don't have enough money for a doctor/medicine-man to see to you then you've got a good chance of dying on the spot any time the ST thinks you did something to expose you to the risk. Get rained on? Hypothermia, the cold, you're down for days. Travelling? Malaria, you're dead on the spot. Let a bottle stomach bug inside you to do some healing/surgery? It's been wallowing in shit and has saved some 'for later on' around it's jaws, and you're about to die unless it sticks around to play doctor.

That extra die from Stamina 2 may not seem like much, but as a Storyteller you will absolutely remember people's 1s and call on them when something reasonably happens that would target those areas. You're more likely to face those challenges you're weak against purely because the Storyteller notices you're weak against them and shouldn't let you skip over the normally-trivial rolls.

>>97638932
I'll be straight with you chief. I have never seen the disease rules brought up even once across like 3 years' worth of weekly games.

What would be the modern equivalents of light, medium and heavy armor?

>>97634485
>"charms don't exist in universe"
Charms exist, they just aren't discrete specific techniques.
>>97634599
>neither they thought about how to deal with Alchemicals and Sidereals
They specifically said that Sideral and Alchemicals are an exception to that.

What level of Working would give my lunar sorcerer a bunch of D&D style cantrips to use to do little magic, mainly for stunts but also because they're just objectively useful?

>>97639426
Repeated Ambition 1/2 Celestial Circle Workings.

>>97639614
For pissy little cantrips? Celestial tier?

>>97639656
>pissy little cantrips
For a bunch of charms, yeah. The only thing that makes D&D cantrips weak is their mechanics, not the ideas used in them. In Exalted, Control Weather is on the same tier as Purify Food and Water. When you translate a spell you're doing it based on nothing but vibes, so those ideas behind the spells are all that matter. It's really difficult to determine a difference between Cure Minor Wounds and Cure Critical Wounds that matters to an Exalted game.

>>97639757
>It's really difficult to determine a difference between Cure Minor Wounds and Cure Critical Wounds that matters to an Exalted game.
Bashing vs lethal?

What do you roll to play an instrument?

>>97639934
Performance.

>>97639957
And?

>>97639959
Ask your ST. Mostly Charisma, I guess, but I might acceot something else depending on the context, specific action and possibly the way player stunts the action. I'd default to. Charisma, though. But again, ask your ST.

>>97640203
Why would it be charisma?

>>97640212
If you have some opinion on what it should be, just say so instead of making this into some kind of gay little guessing game. Charisma's the obvious default because it's pretty much the generic social Attribute and mechanically playing an instrument would be some form of social influence, and because other social Attributes seem like a worse fit.

>>97640246
Dexterity. Obviously.

>>97640276
No, I don't think that works. A musician doesn't necessarily even have unusually good manual dexterity aside from the specific movements required by his instrument he's trained to perfection, ket alone good reflexes, balance and gross motor coordination, which are also included in Dexterity.

>>97640297
And in this system that would be represented by having a high Performance and low Dexterity.

Your motherfucking force of personality has nothing to do with how good you are at playing the piano.

>>97640301
Neither do your reflexes. Attribute+Ability dicepools don't work as an accurate simulation of reality, obviously. Social action is still going to use a social Attribute, not Dexterity, artistic inspiration and shit definitely wouldn't be Dexterity anyways, and besides, the idea that musical aptitude is in part about putting your heart and sould into music - which would fit Charisma better than any of the other Attributes - is, if not actually accurate, then at least true to stereotypes and common beliefs about the nature of artistic genius. Realistically, musical skill would just be musical skill, but since Storyteller system requires Attribute to go with the Ability, Charisma's the best fit out of imperfect choices.

>>97640362
Are you just pretending to be retarded?

>>97640364
Do you have anything resembling an argument you might want to make, anon? And why did you even bother asking a question if you already had an answer in mind and weren't actually interested in considering other answers?

>>97640403
>Neither do your reflexes.
>artistic inspiration and shit definitely wouldn't be Dexterity anyways
Do you just not know how musical instruments work?

When I asked the question I was expecting opinions to get split between Dexterity and Perception, hell maybe even Wit and Intelligence could be argued for. But here's some fucking retard arguing tooth and nail for fucking Charisma of all things.

>>97640420
Yes, anon. Social actions generally use social Attributes. That should be obvious. Performance Charms that refer to a specific dice pool talk about either Charisma+Performance or Manipulation+Performance, depending on the Charm.

>Do you just not know how musical instruments work?
I'm not sure if I know how to explain the fact that Attribute+Ability dicepools don't work as and aren't meant to work as an accurate simulation of reality any more simply and clearly than I already have.

Why are you playing the instrument?

>>97640420
>>97640440
Im going to add that combining musical and other artistic performances with Charisma or a given system's equivalent to it is probably the most common way for RPGs to handle performance-related skills. That's how DnD and its derivatives do it, it's how Shadowrun does it, it's how WFRP does it...it's not universal, but it's so common that it's honestly pretty surprising that you seem so suprised by someone suggesting it.

>>97640276
>Dextery
Nah, it is Stamina.

>>97640403
It is the shitposter, sooner or later he will mention "you are banned from discord".

>>97640700
Even Stamina makes more sense if it's a wind instrument. Charisma is retarded no matter how you slice it.
>But D&D did it!
Case very much in point.

>>97640700
>It is the shitposter, sooner or later he will mention "you are banned from discord".
It's definitely a shitposter, but if you mean to say that he's communityfag, I think there's a different tone and feeling to this. Communityfag would've been more verbose, I think, and he wouldn't have resisted telling me that I'm not part of the community this long.

>>97640706
It's how it is, whether you like it or not.

>>97640721
Nowhere in the rules does it say that though. And common sense confirms.

>>97640706
>But D&D did it!
>Case very much in point.
By this logic WW should have named themselves something else, and all exalted devs should do a naked dogeza in public as an apology for being inspired by works mentioned in the original appendix N.

I should be able to use Manipulation for feats of strength when trying to impress the ladies.

>>97640727
As I said, Performance Charms that specifically refer to a dicepool refer to Charisma+Performance or Manipulation+Performance - this goes back to 1E and continues in both 2E and 3E. 2E is probably the most explicit about what you'd roll with Performance, as mechanically Performance would be part of social combat and rules for social combat pretty clearly explain what different Attributes and Abilities do in that context - and the Attributes used in social combat are, of course, the social Attributes. Even in other editions it's clear that, in terms of game mechanics, Perfoirmance is used for social rolls and that social rolls use social Attributes. Because, you know, that's what social Attributes are for. As I said in my first reply, I'd personally be willing to accept other Attributes depending on the context and the stunt, and maybe your ST is the same, but Charisma and Manipulation are pretty obvious default attributes to use for a social roll.

>>97640763
Charms are magic. They don't have to make sense.

>>97640747
Only when using psychic powers, which, for a strange reason, are commonly keyed to it.

>>97640747
Also Constitution should go with Lore because mens sana in corpore sano.

>>97640773
No, when using Athletics. Because impressing the ladies is a social action.

>>97640782
Are you going to roll Instill, Inspire or what, anon? It's going to be either Performance or Presence, by the way. Ladies aren't going to give a shit about you lifting a big rock unless you do it with a flair and look good doing it.

>>97640800
Nope, you can only do feats of strength with athletics. But it's also a social action so I get to use Manipulation instead of Strength.

>>97640771
OKay. Sure. It's still Charisma, though, or maybe Manipulation, even without Charms. As I said, stunts and context matter a lot, but you're not going to convince your ST to let you just reliably use Dexterity for social influence.

>>97640818
Nope, Charisma doesn't help you play an instrument. Makes no sense.

>>97640809
Nah, you get two rolls, one to see if you can lift the rock and another one to see if you'll look good doing it.

>>97640828
Nope, there's only one action, therefore only one roll. Manipulation + Athletics to impress someone with a feat of strength, a social action.

>>97640828
So then there are two rolls for a performance, one to see if you can play the instrument and another one to see if you'll look good doing it.

>>97640821
Sure. As I said twice already, Storyteller system is not a great at accurately simulating reality. Using the same Attribute you use for sneaking and dodging and shooting a bow for playing the violin wouldn't make any more sense, either. What would make most sense would be Performance rolls just using Performance, pure practiced skill, but that's not how the system works, so some Attribute that doesn't actually make that much sense needs to be paired with it. Since it's a social roll, some social Attribute makes the most sense. That's how it goes.

>>97640841
>What would make most sense would be Performance rolls just using Performance, pure practiced skill
No? You could very easily justify Dexterity or Perception as the supporting attribute without any hassle whatsoever. It's solely your esoteric autism getting in your way here.

>>97640837
Listen, I can tell that you're unreasonably angry about this, but how about you go complain to the Discord where the devs might actually hear you? There's no point in bitching on /exg/ about Exalted handling Performance the same way most RPGs do instead of doing something completely different but equally unrealistic instead.

>>97640849
Defaulting to social traits for social rolls and pointing out that most games do it the same way is esoteric autism now? Okay, anon.

>>97640857
>It has to be Charisma even when it doesn't make any sense because... well, because it just does!
Yes. Autism.

>>97640875
You know, I actually went and checked the 3E corebook, and the rules on social influence say that
>The dice pool for an influence roll is always one of your social Attributes (Charisma, Manipulation, or Appearance)
So it actually is explicitly clear that, as long as your Performance roll is mechanically social influence, it'll use one of those three Attributes. 2E also made the same thing clear in its rules for social combat. That should be pretty conclusive, right? Also, you do understand that I'm not a dev and I don't write the rules, don't you? Because you kind of seem to be mad at me rather than the game about things not working the way you want them to work, which doesn't really make sense. Both 2E and 3E explicitly say that social combat/influence always uses one of the social Attributes, and that's not my fault. I'm not going to check 1E because searching for a specific rule in the scanned pdf of 1E core is a bitch. If you just want to make some kind of a generic non-social Performance roll that has no game mechanical effect, at least not one related to the social influence system, then I don't think it matters all that much what you roll.

>>97640904
So we agree that lifting to impress is Manipulation + Athletics.

>>97640908
I don't think that possible applications of Athletics include social influence.

>>97640929
Harmonious Presence Meditation says it applies to all forms of social influence using all abilities except stealth. Therefore you can in fact use athletics for social influence in the right context, such as flexing to make ladies cream themselves

>>97640946
Sure, why not. That doesn't change feats of strength being Strength+Athletics rolls, though, as they are explicitly stated to be. I mean, genuinely, I see no problem letting someone roll Manipulation+Athletics or Charisma+Athletics to flex in a really impressive fashion, but actual feats of strength have their own rules.

>>97640980
A feat of strength with the intent of impressing someone is a social action. Social actions can only be made with Charisma, Manipulation, or Appearance.

Either agree or admit that you were being fucking stupid.

>>97640946
>Therefore you can in fact use athletics for social influence in the right context, such as flexing to make ladies cream themselves
>Flexing muscles.
>Athletics.
It is obviously strength + presence

>>97640990
>A feat of strength with the intent of impressing someone is a social action.
That's retarded though and incorrect

>>97640998
That's true. But it's in adherence with the logic you have been using.

>>97640990
I still don't make the rules, anon. The rules say that social actions can only be made with Charisma, Manipulation or Appearance, and they also say that feats of strength require Strength+Athletics roll. These aren't my opinions, they're things 3E core says. The obvious and logical conclusion here is that you can't use the same roll both for a feat of strength and social influence.

>>97640998
Yes, at best, the successful feat of strength could be used as a stunt.

>>97641006
*logic the devs were using
You keep talking as if published rules are just some anons personal opinions. I haven't even said anything about whether or not I like those rules. Anon asked what roll playing an instrument is, I answered him, and anon got bizarrely mad at me, and specifically at me rather than the rules or the people who wrote the rules, about it.

>>97641007
Nope, the logical conclusion is that you use one of the three social attributes for that particular feat of strength.

Unless you'd like to recant your logic? You'd have to admit that you were being retarded though.

>>97641027
No amount of Appearance is going to successfully break down a door, whereas strength will. You're making shit up and being annoying about it

>>97641035
Except according to you, some amount of Appearance may be sufficient to break down a door as long as you use it for the purpose of influencing another person, turning it into a social action.

>>97641044
>Except according to you
I said the opposite anon, just now, here >>97641035
You're claiming things I've never said

>>97641018
It might also just impress some people who are already inclined to be impressed by physical strength. I mean, people in the setting form opinions about things even without social influence rolls, and if some scantily clad princess is into gruff, silent men with muscles to share then such a man probably shouldn't have to be a silver-tongued seducer to get anywhere with her.

>>97641052
I'm using the logic you've introduced earlier.

You're free to take it back any time you'd like.

>>97641052
It is the shitposter, he even started with the name calling.

>>97641057
Which post are you referring to? Because it probably wasn't me

>>97641055
This would be using their principles as a leverage.

>>97641027
Brother, you can only use social Attributes for social rolls, and you can only use Strength for feats of strength. This isn't my logic, those are the rules. If you have a problem with those rules, why not go to the Discord and take it up with the devs?

>>97641044
You're arguing with, or maybe more accurately trolling, more than one anon. Not that any anon involved has said what you think has been said, though. According to me, you just can't combine a feat of strength and a social influence attempt into the same roll.

>>97641075
If you're not enjoying the clown shit your own logic opens us up to, then admit you were being stupid and recant it.
>I-I-I'm a different guy!
That's not my problem. You replied to me, retard.

>>97641070
That's not quite what I mean. I mean, if there were social influence rolls involved, then definitely, those Intimacies would be relevant. I meant that people like Exalted don't just slip through life unnoticed and without leaving an impression on anyone if they never roll social influence rolls. A sword autist with no social skills can still gain both ardent admirers and envious rivals through his skills and deeds without ever trying to do so, and so on. I'd definitely let any impressive deeds PCs pull of impress someone even without rolls, it's just that without intentional social influence the way NPCs react to those deeds is sort of uncontrolled, with people reacting according to their own personalities and desires.

>>97641085
What logic are you talking about, anon? Are you still confusing published rules with an anon's personal opinons?

Essence and 3e is more freeform with roll types but the rolls in question still need to make sense. You can't appearance breaking a door because that doesn't mean anything. If you had a charm that lets you seduce inanimate objects then yes, you could use appearance to make doors break themselves. This would need a charm.

A better example is using strength + lore to break a door because instead of trying to strong arm it you're using your knowledge of doors and where specifically to hit the thing. I'm sure there are other examples, like using ranged to break a door because you're shooting it with an arrow that's moving at lightning speed right at the lock.

Seducing the Inanimate
Perm Charm
You can make social rolls against inanimate objects, which can gain an intimacy of loyalty allowing you to use appearance in place of feats of strength. If the object is considered 'owned' by someone you make a contested essence roll first. Objects have a resolve of three or use the resolve of their owner, whichever is higher. If an object with a positive intimacy is used to attack you can use your appearance to dodge the attack instead of your dodge skill. In order to remove these intimacies from said object they must either use a similar charm to make social rolls or make a contested craft roll vs your appearance.

It a rough idea but you get it.

Weird Attribute + Ability combos, is it?

Appearance + Athletics seems like it would be the kind of presentation you would do in a modern bodybuilding competition. Not actually related to how strong you are but to how much work you've done on lifting. Big time style over substance, with a starvation routine to get the "paper thin sacs of ripped muscle" look.

Strength + Presence or Socialize would be the opposite of that, where you're letting it out how genuinely strong you are or else trying to conceal that fact via Socialize, like you dressed in an intentionally shitty fashion that made your otherwise really strong body look bulky and ungainly. This would generally be the kind of thing you'd do to select how tempting a target you are while traveling or going about town. The truly desperate generally won't be dissuaded, though.

Strength + Lore is a really odd one, because what calls for being naturally good at lifting or carrying things and combines with your erudition? Maybe a careful stretching routine to keep your body from cramping or atrophying (the latter is mostly a mortal concern, but still), or your recollection of books and their weight allows your muscle memory to turn to the exact right part of a book you've read instead of needing to use a bookmark.

>>97642581
Strength + lore has the obvious one of strong arming something at it's weak point. "It is said the walls here are thinner, these stones are weak to a certain type of pressure, this metal is easier to bend because I am applying force this way." That's pretty much all I can think of.

Appearance + Athletics could also just be showing off fast you are without actually having to run to prove it. Look at my legs. You're not winning this race. Be real.

>>97642581
>Strength + Lore
This is just how feats of destruction are actually done.

https://youtube.com/shorts/54-kWvzA6vA

I think a lot of the discussion trying to twist Ability+Attributes into weird places are just ignoring that a reasonable Storyteller would split it into two actions.

Playing an instrument as Dexterity? Sure, but the physical requirements to play an instrument are normally Difficulty 0 or 1 - anybody can breath, and block holes with their fingers - so it's not rolled. Influencing someone with your music is Charisma. Maybe both actions are happening, but only one of them is non-trivial and only it's results are significant to the scene, so social influence action with Charisma and Performance it is. Similarly, lifting something to show off is just a feat of strength + a social influence action, not twisting strength into a social attribute.

>>97642697
I don't think we're talking about hitting someone with a social roll by doing a feat of strength at the same time. Dexterity + Performance is an obvious one for showing off how well you can dance, even if you're not using it for a social influence roll.

Not that I disagree with what you're saying. Actions should mean something and if you're trying to do two things then obvious you're going to roll twice. I personally would be rather strict with any of those interpretations though because of the implications with the system. I don't want to rape the mechanics in place.

For the more numinous combinations you're really going to want that to be a charm desu.

>>97642697
Here is how things currently stand: either we can use Manipulation for social feats of strength, or everything you've been saying up to this point is incorrect.

There are no alternatives. Pick one or the other.

>>97643120
There is the obvious alternative of social feats of strength not being a thing, though.

>>97643155
Then you've also chosen the obvious alternative of dexterity being used to play instruments.

>>97642867
>Dexterity + Performance is an obvious one for showing off how well you can dance, even if you're not using it for a social influence roll.
No, showing off how well you can dance is also Charisma + Performance. Showing off is social. Dexterity + Performance would be for dancing exceptionally well, or under exceptional conditions. It's much more likely to be relevant if you need to keep a dance up for some kind of ritual or verification requirements. Even then, if it's something like going across a tightrope while dancing, or leaping chasms while maintaining perfect form, if both sides of that are difficult it would be entirely reasonable to call for two rolls; Athletics as well as Performance.

>>97643120
You're replying to my first post on the topic. If my point directly contradicts stuff earlier in the thread, and if I'm right then they're incorrect, then they're incorrect.

>>97634340
You got any idea if we're getting Agents of Heaven Drafts anytime soon?

>>97643174
>No, showing off how well you can dance is also Charisma + Performance.
You mean Appearance + Performance anon.

>rolls can vary depending on context

how numinous.

>>97643160
No, that does not follow from what I said, nor from anything anyone ITT has said. It's pretty clear that, making the generous assumption that you're not just trolling, you've seriously misunderstood pretty much every argument people have made in this discussion. It'd be helpful for figuring out and fixing the specifics of your misunderstanding if you'd spell out just what kind of logic you imagine to be at play here.

>>97643174
>You're replying to my first post on the topic. If my point directly contradicts stuff earlier in the thread, and if I'm right then they're incorrect, then they're incorrect.
Nah, your point doesn't contradict anything said earlier. Anon's just either misunderstanding or intentionally misrepresenting what people have said.

>>97643251
>No, that does not follow from what I said
It does.

Let me know when you decide which one you want to go with.

>>97643253
I'm going to go with social influence using social Attributes and feats of strength using, well, Strength. I'm also going to go with Dexterity not making any more actual real life sense as the Attribute used for music than Charisma does, but Charisma (and other social Attributes) both making more sense from gameplay perspective and being a better fit for the archetype of a charismatic, captivating performer. That's my final word on this, unless you at some point feel up to spelling out the logic behind your arguments. If you do that, there might be more to discuss.

>>97643267
>I'm going to go with social influence using social Attributes
Then we're going with Manipulation + Athletics for feats of strength. Obviously this is completely retarded, but this is what you chose to go with.

>>97643270
>and feats of strength using, well, Strength

>>97643267
>I'm also going to go with Dexterity not making any more actual real life sense as the Attribute used for music than Charisma does
kek

>>97643280
>>97640297

>>97643286
>playing a musical instrument doesn't require dexterity and coordination
have you genuinely never even SEEN a musical instrument before?

>>97643288
Do you understand the difference between the kind of general motor ability Dexterity represents and very specific movements required by a specific instrument being trained to perfection?

>>97643292
there is no difference