Thread #97634861
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Why did MtG become so shit? It's it just a case of nerds soifacing and buying any garbage that makes a pop culture reference?
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>>97634861
>all the problems of a TCG going back to its inception
>poor rulemaking and balance checks creates both massive bloat and an ever expanding list of errata and non-legal cards
>create a consumer cycle of requiring constant purchases to keep decks both useable and tournament legal
>netdecking takes off as players try to "solve" the game
>as a result a secondary market fueled by WAACs and whales develops
>secondary market rapidly becomes an avenue for speculators
>company doesn't actually care who the cards are being sold to as long as they sell
>primary market shifts from supplying the player base to supplying the secondary market
>price lockouts occur and tournament play largely becomes moneyball
I haven't played MtG since 2005, how wrong am I?
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>>97634861
Alongside what >>97635118 mentioned (followed by many players switching to EDH for a casual multiplayer format to try to escape price lockouts), MtG's flavor has become such a mess because WotC sucks at storytelling. They're really bad at paying off villains or wrapping up a plot in a satisfying way. That's what lead to the death of blocks, and eventually just licensing out other IPs to rely on other successful stories instead of their own.
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Magic was only ever fun when I was in highschool playing with prebuilts and penny cards, maybe someone has a 20 dollar card. If MTG had a proper way to gauge deck strength it would be more enjoyable. Nowadays I would only buy a couple prebuilt decks and play against prebuilts. Deckbuilding and the power creep propped up by throwing money at good cards destroys the game part for me.
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>>97635118
>>97635172
>>97635207
It's a bait thread. You're just supposed to bitch about trannies.
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Game officially told you to "you are not the audience anymore so move along" when they stopped doing blocks
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>complaining about BLOOMBURROW of all things
come on man. this game can be silly and cute at times
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She actually IS really good.
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>>97636110
it still sucked. it has been observed time after time again that blocks are terrible
you're basically putting your eggs in one basket for half a year. if people don't like the first set, they're almost guaranteed to not like the second. and even people who *do* like the first set likely will get tired of the second and exhausted by the third because it will be the same plane with similar mechanics. having an entire year of kamigawa and mirrodin and time spiral almost killed the goddamn game
Not to mention they all have to use similar mechanics so the design team will exhaust design space, so they continuously get worse as they progress and one of them will universally be much worse then the others no matter what. this was literally always the case.
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>>97634861
Greed and hubris. There are several points where you can say things started going downhill, but the explosive power creep starting in 2019 and the introduction of Universes Beyond in 2020 were the biggest death knells. The competitive scene has disintegrated even on the humble LGS level and the customer base was largely supplanted by tourists and investorfags.
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Card games are the worst of all worlds with tabletop games.
Minis cost a lot, but involve a good amount of personal involvement building and painting the models.
RPGs are relatively cheap and playtime to cost is extremely low, multiple people can share one purchase, etc.
TCGs are expensive and personal expression is low, everyone just makes net decks.
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>>97636731
Anon she is handing two cards to another player every turn to gain her full value. She is the definition of bracket 2 only because in any further brackets any value she accumulates will be outweighed by that. In any format people will gladly eat 10 damage to the face if it means drawing one more card and she's handing them out like candy.
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>>97637085
You don't play a lot of commander do you son? Lets talk about the pixar-mom-sized flying rabbit-elephant ass in the room.
Ms Bumbleflower is a 1/5 Vigilance; or she would be, but in any metric that matters she's a 2/6 Flying Vigilance, cause either you're dropping a spell to haste her and she goes airborne or you're setting her fat ass in the way of any attackers for a turn, then you'll have a full round of mana to start nonsense.
What a cheat though, you say, you have to give your opponents cards to get any value out of this? How bad can it be? Well it's a precon that's got Triskaidekaphile, Twenty Toed Toad and Simic Ascendancy all in it; draw her the wrong number of cards and damn that's game over right there.
Sure though, each turn if you're lucky you're one of the next contestants on "You draw a card.", in fact here, draw a lot of cards so long as Ms B keeps getting to draw. Everyone else at the table is begging you to stop drawing but you're sure you're going to get use out of this dumb bracket 2 rabbit and then you go to combat and they go "Naughty Naughty, why don't you guys sort this out on your own" and you get Illusionist Gambited into just fucking DELETING one of the other players at the table, and they've got like four or five other ways to do that too.
If that doesn't work out for them I'm sure you'll have a solution for the commander damage, or the pile of tokens slowly consuming the table, or the unironic poison counter win (here's some treasures, don't spend them though, oh no, trust me).
She's a solid fucking 3 if there ever was one out of the box and she only gets better inversely correlated with the IQ of your table.
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When casuals took over.
The answer is always that.
Why does stuff enshittify? Because casuals take over.
>Inb4 b-bbut I'm ah ecking casual I'm le different!1
No, you aren't. You are spiritually a shit golem, an indian in spirit.
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>>97637247
Or I doom blade her after I draw a card and now you've spent 4 mana for literally nothing. You didn't even make me spend any cards. Voltron is a fucking joke, that's what it is. It's only viable in brackets where nobody even knows Naturalize or Murder exists.
Look, I know you're very excited with your bracket 2 bunny, but Bumbleflower isn't even like, top 10 precons of all time. Valgavoth is slamming the faces of every other player into a rock every turn and laughing. Dihada gives you 4 treasures every turn then makes your creatures unkillable lifelinkers. Urza makes 10 40/40s, they're all got menace indestructible double strike, and if he dies who gives a shit he's got affinity. Kilo is one Freed From the Real away from deleting the whole table at all times. Hearthrull shits out so much value you're going to forget the other players even have turns.
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>>97637384
*taps my enchantment*
No it doesn't.
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>>97637389
Okay, I tap two and phase her out. Your response?
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>>97637408
where are you getting 18 power from again? either way i just remove her again. you can phase her out all you want but that's just another turn you're left without a commander, you know.
your commander's draw literally caps at 2. every single spell you cast after that? actively benefitting your opponent while you only get a single counter. meanwhile the guy with the World Shaper precon over there has an infinite land sac combo primed to go.
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>>97637427
*taps the sign*
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>>97637438
So you need a card in the board specifically to prevent your commander from sabotaging you? you could use Narset to kneecap the whole table and this is what you're using it for? to make your commander fuck you over slightly less??? Anon, please learn to dream a bit higher.
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>>97637451
Sorry, I can't hear you over the fact that I just smacked you in the face for 17 commander damage on turn 5. As you were saying?
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>>97637459
Okay, I cast Holy Day and your commander does nothing. My turn, right? I cast Freed for the Real and win the game.
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>>97637473
I play against a stock Kilo deck all the time. They have never won and all their turns are just 15 minutes of profilerate juggling until someone casts an artifact board wipe and they have nothing anymore. In the meantime, I just got Flaming Fist off a Key to the Vault trigger and now I'm swinging for lethal. Response?
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>>97637484
>>97637473
Just get a room you faggots.
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>>97637484
>Key to the Vault
anon please genuinely tell me you're trolling and you don't play an equipment that needs 5 total mana and for a hit to connect for it to start to do anything and even then can completely whiff. just play one of the mirran blades and stop humiliating yourself
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>>97637496
i don't see invigorating surge or vanishing in any bloomburrow precons either. either way I don't need infect lmao
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>>97637504
Look bro you can shittalk bumbletron all you want but the fact of the matter is that every player in my group now has a mutual understanding that I am the biggest threat at the table the second bumbleflower hits the board and that they are not safe until I have left the game.
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>>97637333
She's not a voltron deck newbie. The fact you can't tell is all I needed to know your thoughts on the matter aren't worth hearing.
You and the other fucko keep looking for upgrades and garbage to throw onto the pile like it matters, if we're talking blow for blow precons Valgavoth is going into the cuck chair with a Vow of Loyalty as you're scraping your deck to find a sac outlet for your own commander.
And Dihada only nets you 4 treasures on 4 misses, going down to 2 loyalty if you rip it the turn you put her down. Forget dying to doom blade, how's it feel to lose your commander to flying bunny ass as an easy layup? Maybe Ms. B pitied you enough to give you cards, but something tells me she's not going to.
And really? Affinity-100cards.dec? It'd be a real shame if someone were to... say, bounce all your constructs to your hand.
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>>97637521
I don't see how that happened when you're spending 5 mana to equip one (1) artifact in hopes of getting to one free spell when you hit something. If you hit something and nobody has a flying chump from like a bitterblossom or something. maybe your pod is dog fucking shit at the game, have you thought of that?
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>>97637539
>You and the other fucko keep looking for upgrades and garbage to throw onto the pile like it matters, if we're talking blow for blow precons Valgavoth is going into the cuck chair with a Vow of Loyalty as you're scraping your deck to find a sac outlet for your own commander.
Why would I give a shit if Val can't attack when he's still drawing me cards every turn?
>And Dihada only nets you 4 treasures on 4 misses, going down to 2 loyalty if you rip it the turn you put her down. Forget dying to doom blade, how's it feel to lose your commander to flying bunny ass as an easy layup
Pretty good, considering you wasted your turn swinging at a planeswalker and I can just recast her next turn because 4 treasures. And now my graveyard is full. Consider that I didn't miss shit. I'm putting my cards in the graveyard for this Reanimate I got here on my hand. Enjoy my dear friend Archon of Cruelty.
>And really? Affinity-100cards.dec? It'd be a real shame if someone were to... say, bounce all your constructs to your hand.
If we're playing Omniscience emblem and we've seemingly got infinite mana I'm just bringing all the cascade spells i have
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>>97637548
IF you manage to connect. IF NOBODY has a fog. Or removal. Or even an 1/1 faerie or bird or whatever. The more jumps a card has to jump through to be useful the worse it is; there's a reason Key ot the Vault is in the bulk rare bin and is never even spoken of in the same breath as all the actually good equipment like, say, Umezawa's Jitte, Sword of Feast and Famine, Cranial Plating or Skullclamp.
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Don't know if anyone cares or if this was already known, but I noticed that the background and some of the foreground of Macar was traced from Disney's Aladdin.
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>>97637604
1. if you just spent 5 mana on the key, your commander is not particularly large because you don't have infinite mana and can't cast the spells you need to make it so.
2. if it IS large, everyone is going to see it coming. "Wow, this guy is going to hit with his "cast a free spell if it hits" creature. Better not let that happen." Is basic reasoning. Do you play with Down Syndrome patients?
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>>97637575
See you're doing that retard shit again where you're just talking about cards in the color instead of cards in the deck. This ain't about your mid netdeck. If you get to do whatever you want then I can ACTUALLY fucking crack the bunny and we can start arguing about how badly big badass high artificer Urza wishes he was a fat-assed rabbit.
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>>97637641
Alright so, let's imagine you ramped like crazy and have like 9 mana turn 5. You just spent... 5 of it to equip, so now you have four, enough for maybe two counterspells or protection spells, assuming you also drew all of them, and if you play them then Bumbleflower is going to hit like a wet noodle because then you're not casting any of these counter and pump spells you need for her to do something that's not "look at the top three cards, it's a land, a counter and a cantrip". Do you just not understand how Key of the Vault is an horrifyingly inneficient use of your mana? 5 mana to maybe get a free spell is fucking awful. Just cast that shit with the five mana.
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>>97637641
We don't even need green necessarily. We have Smothering Tithe and Tataru Taru in White. We're going to space on mana just off of retards taking free cards.
You guys keep talking about her like she's voltron. That's brainlet shit. If you guys can't understand the concept of group hug there's no point in discussing commander at all.
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>>97637660
okay, so... You're still paying 5 mana overall, except now you're waiting even more to even get use out of the card! you spent 2 mana on an artifact that will literally do nothing, and for it to start paying itself you'll have to cast a bunch of shit. and if anything ever goes wrong, you're going to have to pay 3 mana again, and every protection card you include to keep the goddamn creature alive is another card that is a complete whiff if Key to the Vault hits it.
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>>97637683
Man it's wild y'all yugi moto ass motherfuckers always have doomblade to hit the commander but none of you broke ass ninjas ever got mana open to counterspell
Ms B does though; she has her fierce guardianship because you FORCE FED HER FAT ASS CARDS. And if she didn't, she has enough mana in treasures and free lands to row that boat herself if she's gotta.
It's punk asses like you that win group hug players games; cause you sit down with the short bus 'i bought the precon cause it's got a bunny on it' tables and are like 'these edibles ain't shit' and then you know what, Ms. B didn't even need to do anything to kill you, she just held up perch protection and gave the storm player A SECOND FUCKING TURN.
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>>97637721
anon please please please film yourself in a cedh tournament with your 50 dollar deck playing basics. i want to see it happen so much. i want to see it so dearly . It's going to work right? it's not like literally every cedh deck in the game is running Urza's Saga or something. That would never happen.
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>>97637741
anon cedh does not mean "edh players competing." it means you are playing at the highest possible powerlevel. there is a reason bracket 5 is, explicitly, the cedh bracket.
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>>97637751
Yes, okay
Everyone universally agrees you can make a cedh winota deck for less than $50
You are the one piggie dissenting because you think you need your 1 eligible fetch and 1 eligible shock for your 2 color
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>>97637754
>Bracket 5: cEDH
>Experience: This is high power with a very competitive and metagame-focused mindset.
>"Mindset" is a key part of that description: Much of it is in how you approach the format and deck building. It's not just no holds barred, where you play your most powerful cards like in Bracket 4. It requires careful planning: There is care paid into following and paying attention to a metagame and tournament structure, and no sacrifices are made in deck building as you try to be the one to win the pod. Additionally, there is special care and attention paid to behavior and tableside negotiation (such as not making spite plays or concessions) that play into the tournament structure.
>cEDH, or "competitive Commander" and similar names, is where winning matters more than self-expression. You might not be playing your favorite cards or commanders, as pet cards are usually replaced with cards needed in the meta, but you're playing what you think will be most likely to win.
b5 is explicitly the metagame of the highest possible level of EDH. If you just want to play high power commander bracket 4 exists for that purpose. bracket 5 is the place, specifically, for the meta decks. here is, indeed, the place where you run zero pet cards and literally every fetch possible and bolt yourself in the face to have your mana one turn early. where you windmill slam every meta card into the deck. it is the ENTIRE POINT of the bracket. to contain these people.
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>>97637760
>You are the one piggie dissenting because you think you need your 1 eligible fetch and 1 eligible shock for your 2 color
every 2 color deck is eligible for 5 fetches. you have no idea of what you're talking about.
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>>97637771
>My deck only needs plains and mountains but I will include all these cards that let me search for a swamp or a mountain or an island or a mountain
Tell me you're a retarded piggie without telling me you're a retarded piggie
>>97637776
Cope meltdown by the one schizo piggie who says the one thing everyone agrees is possible isnt possible
What about EDH causes this mindset?
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>>97637785
>>My deck only needs plains and mountains but I will include all these cards that let me search for a swamp or a mountain or an island or a mountain
Yes? Incredible consistency, a card in the graveyard, deckthinning, a free shuffle. Fetchlands are absolutely fucking cracked, there is no reason to not run them. It benefits the performance of every deck that can use them. monocolor decks jam fetchlands into themselves because they're that good. Hell, there are COLORLESS decks that jam Prismatic Vista, the only fetchland they can run, because it is THAT fucking good to have them around.
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>>97637805
>That's cool and all but you're playing a 2 color deck that can win on turn 3/4/5
...and?
the point of cedh is to try and win no matter what. fetchlands see play in literally every format they are legal in. they are literally better then the original untapped duals. why would I not run a card that greatly increases my chances of winning?
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>>97637812
Between a deck with a fetchland manabase and a deck with a basic manabase I will bet on the fetchland one 100 times out of 100.
You genuinely do not understand how big of an impact on your game having a proper manabase has.
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>>97637824
That's cool and all but I'm not the one claiming that the one commander everyone universally sayscan be built as a cedh budget deck akschually cant because you need to spend $400 on cards you have a *checks the hypergeometric calculator* ~50% chance of not even drawing 1 of in the average game
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>>97637847
drawing literally any of them means your chances of winning basically double. Meanwhile, a shitty manabase means you can easily be left doing absolutely nothing for half the game because you simply didn't draw the lands you needed.
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>>97637881
if you want to play against the people who are putting 600 dollar cards in their decks and not get roflstomped immediately then probably yes. your average cedh grinder can reliably drop winota turn 2, attack, drop a big human like auratouched mage and instantly win the game
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>>97637942
because you need total consistency for this? lotus petal rite of flame ancient tomb chrome mox mox opal mana vault etc. without total consistency allowing it to always have 2WR or more accessible by turn 2 no matter what it will get smashed every game by decks that do
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>>97637958
yeah and I can find "modern skred" or "cedh aunt may" decklists right now too. Doesn't mean skred is anything remotely close to viable in modern or that bringing aunt may into CEDH isn't an elaborate suicide
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Oh wait I think it just clicked for me. Piggie is probably protective over "his" format" that he paid a lot of money for to be "allowed" in and it makes him upset that there's a commander that's cedh viable sith with a manabase of mostly basics. "How dare you not spend hundreds on fetches like I did??" is probably whats going through piggie's mind
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>>97637997
anon please film yourself in a CEDH tournament like i asked, right? i want to see you win against someone who actually understands what are good cards. you can do it, anon, playing angrath's marauders as your wincon is definitely going to work.
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>>97638012
I'm sure your bracket 1 kellan vs gollum vs glissa the traitor vs loot night is all powerful cedh decks anon. I'm sure you can win. Your deck is so well made and you're sooo smart for not playing any of these complicated dual lands. all basics, that's so much smarter. go, anon, win, I'm sure you're definitely going to drop that turn 8 doubling season this game.
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>>97638032
I think I was right on the money with >>97637997 you are having a breakdown and treating it as a personal attack that there exists decks where people don't have to spend as much money as you did to play and be viable
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>>97638096
me:
>google "can you build winota cedh budget"
>every response: yes
>ok for me
you;
>WHAAAAAT??? AHHHHH HOW DARE ANYONE SAY THAT
>SHOW ME THE RECORDING OF YOU WINNING A CEDH TOURNAMENT RIGHT NOW
>NOBODY HAS THE RIGHT TO PLAY CEDH UNLESS THEY DROP $400 ON LANDS LIKE I DID
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>>97636084
I may pick her up just because I play with 3 autists that always gang up and Hate on the dumbest guy in the group every single game. Imma just hook him up fat and hope he smashes the crap out of em. They mald and seethe so hard when he wins and I think its hilarious.
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>>97634861
UB ruined Mtg. RIP.
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>>97637690
I played my first game with the bunny on Friday. It was against 2 izzet spellslingers. She was a 20/20+ after one round, and the only reason I lost was because I didn't counterspell the right threat. At that point we all knew the game was done one way or another and I was in a rush to leave anyway.
The precon kicks ass, keep coping faggot.
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>>97634861
Idk, no one in my area is interested in turtles or marvel so the prerelease for the former was empty and same will be for the latter.
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>>97634861
Time Spiral. It was be beginning of the end. WotC realized they could just keep adding more and more shit like planewalkers and nostalgia (which lead to IP sets). Nail in the coffin was Lorywn set 1, the cutesy dnd character art style really cemented into shit about then. Everything after that was a rocket train to fuck.
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>>97634861
Some combination of this >>97635118 in the purely structural sense, but also Hasbro corporate culture has just caused total decay. They're literally incapable of caring about the game as a game anymore, everything is a marketing scam. It's just total, abject greed. All the woke shit, the power creep, the crossovers, it's all just downstream of myopic greed. The game doesn't matter, squeezing whales of their money is what matters. The shittier the game gets, the more sane people leave. The more sane people leave, the more they need to squeeze the players that remain even harder.
Eventually the only people who can stomach MtG are actual, genuine fucking ideologues who make the Hasbro corporate ethos part of their personalities. Sometimes people like me will have a pang of nostalgia and consider getting back in, but then I enter the threads and see the Spiderman/Fortnite crossover shit, and a cursory investigation of the state of the game reveals it to be a complete dumpster fire, and then I back down.
Why the fuck would I try to re-enter a hobby that's become a parody of itself?
And again, when people like me won't come back and spend money, what does Hasbro do? Squeeze the faggots that remain even harder.
All they know how to do is accelerate their decline to pad their quarterlies.
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>>97644786
>Nail in the coffin was Lorywn set 1, the cutesy dnd character art style really cemented into shit about then.
?????
what the fuck are you talking about?
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>>97634861
>Why did MtG become so shit?
The same reason everything else becomes shit: the original devs lost control. Selling the company to Hasbro was a horrific mistake that damaged Magic in ways that can never be repaired or healed. >>97645306 has it right: Hasbro does not care about the product's quality at all. They just want to whore it out as efficiently as they can.