old bad
new good

>>734140190
Mainline games suck, spin-offs are bretty gud

>>734140338
pmd sky was new at one point

>>734140190
Z-A has a 4.7? I thought people liked that one?

>>734140962
It's terrible

>>734141021
why? I'm curious.

>>734140962

It's just bandwagonners lowering the score

What pattern?
>Critics like Pokemon
>Fans disproportionately enjoy Mystery Dungeon

>>734140962
reviewbombing from seething faggots

>>734140190
Yeah, you shouldn't care about scores
Even the user score since for bigger games it's just review bombing or counter glazing

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>>734140190
Baldness pattern

>>734140962
A large majority of those negative reviews were from people that are motivated solely by the Twitter algorithm.

>>734140962
The DLC was pretty bad

>>734140338
Funny bippy

Except people playing that GKCslop have probably never played DQ Builders which is better.

>>734140190
The gaming press has always been shit to Mystery Dungeon games, Pokemon or otherwise.

>>734141065
>>734141276
>>734141495
I'm not really a person who believes review bombing is actually usually a thing so I'd need the actual reason they're doing it to determine if it's legit or not.

>>734140962
No, why did you think that?

>>734141512
it has farming and pokemon collecting so it's not dq builders

>>734140962
It got reviewbombed to fuck, like every other game since SWSH except LA. If you scroll through the reviews on metacritic you'll see half of them are just seetheposts.

>>734140962
They downgraded it from PLA, having the whole game take place in a single goddamn city with no open field environments.

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>>734140962

>>734141614
Well maybe it’s Minecraft or Animal Crossing or both.

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>>734140962
angry palkek shills

>>734141646
oh lmao

>>734141619
I feel like Scarlet and Violet weren't review bombed. They were released in a pretty unacceptable state.

>>734141576
Shiren deserved better.

>>734141581
There were a fair amount of negative reviews due to the game being ugly and repetitive, but a lot of those reviews are just people going "THIS IS FOR PALWORLD" since the lawsuit was going on at the time. There was also a lot of misinfo about the game going around making it look way shittier than it actually was. Not trying to say it was a masterpiece, but the reviews for it are a lot less earnest than say the ones for Scarlet and Violet, which deserved scorn.

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>>734141724
>Had to ctrl+F to find that

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I see right through you.

>>734141724
>latinx name
Yeah that makes sense.

>>734142092
Air Riders is great but not $70 great.

>>734140190
I thought this was kind of universal with all new games

>>734141837
Yeah that's fair. But I still think the game would likely have a 5-6 without the bombing

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>>734140962
Bandwagoning retards have been shitting their diaper about every Pokémon game on the Switch thinking that they're going to accomplish anything, while the games have enjoyed unprecedented success and Pokémon has become more popular than ever

>>734141581
It's not "review bombing" in the sense of a coordinated campaign, it's just a vocal minority of seething manchildren who have been loudly crying about how Pokémon is bad and dead and needs to change for the past 10 years
Think like the Sonic "fans" who have spent their adult lives shitting on the series since it went to 3D

>>734141738
Scarlet/Violet got significant actual negative media attention and poor real reviews (and still became the second-best selling game in the franchise in spite of this)
This is something that actually matters unlike anonymous user reviews, which is why they're actually responding to that and pivoting from the business model they've had for the past 15 years to take their time with Gen 10

>>734141724
>>734141646
>even the journalist gave it 78 must be palworld fans

even with those comments the game overall wasn't anything special besides a throw in the air to try to bring back the people who liked mega evos only to flop hard on some of the designs and actually butchering the dlc, also >>734141738
don't take those comments serious there's a lot of criticism's given to this game as someone who manage to beat the game under 70 hours it's not all that its more deserving of 72 considering it's combat didn't really have that much depth, to the point it got boring after 20th royale battle not to mention the pvp is boring after having to deal with the same matchups in a row, the grinding for the golden caps was tedious as hell battling the same trainer over and over for the stat increases; the city was very bland after exploring half of everything the ones that were somewhat unique was the sewer and cemetery, I'm confused why fags like this are trying to beat around the bush and excuse every criticism from palworld fans

>>734141576
mystery dungeon is what opened my eyes to the truth of """reviewers"""

>>734142239
A 6 is pretty fair. It's a solid game with a fair share of problems.

>>734140190
That Nintendo is giving more and more money to reviewers?

>>734142435
I mean I'd have no problem with the reviews if they legitimately bought the game and disliked it. But something tells me the people who were mad at Nintendo over the Palworld situation and rated the game a 0 probably didn't buy the $70 pokemon game...

>>734140962
How? It was total trash.

>>734142435
There's a lot of legitimate criticism to be made about Z-A but the bulk of what people complained about especially early on was shitposting about window textures and claiming that the game looked and ran worse than PLA or SV, which is just factually not true

>>734142435
>I'm confused why fags like this are trying to beat around the bush and excuse every criticism from palworld fans
Because most "criticisms" from Palworld fans just boil down to "how dare Nintendo sue Palworld, fuck you".

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>>734142396
>excusing its sales despite it being mostly carried by pre covid era

>while also excusing it poor release quality

>Game is populated by retarded fans who would rather spend 200k just for some holographic Charizard card that just paper

you do realize tcg alone can keep pokemon afloat right? even if they ditched the games they wouldn't even have to worry about production costs

>>734140962
it actually got review bombed hard because it's okay to review bomb any game on nintendo.

>>734140190
This just shows that pokemon can be good. Just not when gamefreak is involved.

We live in a
>reality is subjective
>your feelings determine value!
>it's all relative!
Era. Nihilist nothing matters dont think about anything.
If you're interested read a little about the Greek philosophy collapse into nihilistic subjectivism.

It doesn't matter that the games have been shit on story, gameplay and oh god especially the technical level since the 2010s.
People aren't thinking they're just consuming and going OH I LOVE POKEMON DONT YOU FEEL IT EVERYTHING IS GREAT.
A globalized world of perpetual mental 4 year olds who even if they're aware they're lying to themselves won't stop doing as they've been taught.

Alternative take:
Pokemon was never good.

I like ZA a lot more than expected.

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>>734142632
thats the literal definition of beating around the bushes though also am i supposed to take journalist seriously if all they can write is "ITS SUCH A BREATH OF FRESH AIR THAT MY CHILDHOOD POKEMON CAN FIGHT LIKE THE MOVIE AND ANIMES" and nothing else they don't detail whats special about the game and most of it, is its fun both these review can be subjective and i'm tired pretending it's not. so once again am i supposed to take reviews like this seriously Aswell despite them not inquiring what special about them besides the nostalgia wanking

>>734140190
K....K.....Kan.....
KANTOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO YAAASSSSS

>>734141043
I wouldn't say it's exactly "terrible" but it's very "ok"
It's kind of like a game that has an idea and then they don't know what to do with it, and what is there they didn't have the time or budget to polish it up.
>What if we did action combat?
>Pretty much just MMO cooldown combat but now you're fighting with your own pokemon's jank ass pathing and repositioning, sometimes the lock on
>What if the player had to go through ranks Z through A?
>Skip through half of them, not for unjustified reasons either because:
>What if we had these battle zones where you take advantage of the action combat to battle in rapid succession?
>Amounts to mindlessly one shotting lower level pokemon for increasingly longer amounts of time, especially the fucking post-game shit to get the last bit of story good lord
>What if we had the entire game take place in a city?
>Raises questions about why there are wild pokemon in the city, that the story itself addresses as a problem over and over, yet never does anything with
>What if we made it a sequel to XY?
>Doesn't really do anything for the game, only like 4 returning characters which barely get screentime relative to the OCs, most of the story is spent doing menial tasks
>What if we did big spectacle battles with the new mega evolutions?
>Same jank combat you've been doing the entire game but now you've gotta dark souls roll around while your pokemon wails on a damage sponge for too long
It was just like, what was the direction for this game? What do I even like about it? I was kind of hopeful going in since I liked PLA, but whatever I guess

>>734142727
>excusing its sales despite it being mostly carried by pre covid era
Sword/Shield broke records before covid and Scarlet/Violet broke records three years after covid
You don't know what you're talking about

>tcg alone can keep pokemon afloat
lol

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>>734141512
And this information is from you pulling it out of your ass I assume?

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>>734140962
ZA is the direct opposite of PLA, and thus focuses on battling, and direct character driven stories opposed to catching, lore and "vibes" that PLA focused on. The graphics are, putting it kindly, mediocre, and the fact that it takes place in one city really feels repetitive, especially since they did nothing to make the different sections of it feel different. That being said, I am a Huge ZAfag and felt like I was playing a videogame version of one of those 2000s pokemon movies what with the battling in an urban environment.
>Fans of PLA who(rightly) felt betrayed
>People who(rightly) thought the graphics were shit
>People who thought the game was shit (cuz sometimes it just doenst click)
>Genuine reviewbombers.
Between all that, I can see it getting a 4.8. In a perfect world where its a Switch 2 exclusive and gets to flex its muscles graphically I could see it going as high as a 6.8 or even a 7.2.

>>734143129
My biggest issue with the gameplay is that since there are no abilities, most of the megas are genuinely just bad. Because the entire point of a lot of mega in the first place was giving the pokemon access to incredibly powerful unique abilities.

>>734143135
i hope you're not forgetting post cov because it inflated it sales higher with covid and NTM its wasn't really much of a game with standards at the time it also had like 2-4 years to sell copies before the inveitable S/V came around, it's still overrall a shitty game, also where am i wrong? tcg can literally keep pokemon afloat for years on end nothing says "You gotta Buy em all" unlike scalpers and collectors

>>734142182
Same for the other game

>>734140962
Bacause it's garbage

Was PLA really that much better than ZA? I never played LA but I enjoyed my time with ZA. My friend told me that everything outside of catching Pokemon in LA stunk.

>>734143719
PLA is not that good. It has no replayability.

>>734140962
It's terrible if you play games that don't have Pokemon in the title. If you're an action RPG gamer, it's an awful action RPG.

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>>734143746
I don't even like this game, but replayability has to be some of the most retarded yet widespread arguments I see to talk about whether games are worth it or not
If a game is fun, you'll replay it; if it's not, no matter how many variables per playthrough there is, you won't want to replay it

>>734143719
Depends on the person maybe
PLA is my pick of the 3D games, but I also wouldn't call it exactly a good game. It's kind of like one of those 6/10 budget JRPGs that isn't really that good but it does certain things well so you click with it.
It's nice that it focuses on catching since I like pokemon for the world primarily and does so better than ZA, the controls are all upgraded from SwSh/SV and feels like a modern video game, the battle system is slightly different from normal which helps it feel good to play, the small touches, art direction, and general atmosphere are pretty nice, and I actually really liked the final boss. It's very simple yet cool as fuck

>>734144116
Maybe it's not that retarded if its widespread.

>>734144116
>but replayability has to be some of the most retarded yet widespread arguments I see to talk about whether games are worth it or not
Its fucking pokemon nigga those games live and die on their replayability

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>>734140190
The pattern is pokeshit has been a creatively bankrupt franchise for over a decade so please go to >>>/vp/ and let us complain about gacha games and ecelebs in peace.

>>734140962
Because they didnt give us mega flygon though...

>>734144182
Yeah, it's well-known that popular = good
Certainly not that the idea is braindead and easy to fall in as it makes you sound like a smart ass in front of a crowd retarded enough

>>734144369
People deleting their save files and replaying games are an extreme minority; I never did it myself. If I replay a Pokemon game, it's because I bought a game/changed computer

>>734142589
yeah, but you would think a bunch of diehard pokemon fans would change that user review scores a little higher but i guess they aren't that enthusiastic to actually care, also why are we acting like both parties haven't been review bombing each other games from the very start of the drama?

im not genuinely defending any of that behavior but it's hilarious to cry sheep when both have been doing that from the very start when the drama started to brew on twitter, but don't get me wrong, both games have their fair share of criticism and even though i didn't like ZA i did enjoy the catching mechanic and even somewhat the end when you fought mega floette, i also didn't fully enjoy palworld but i did enjoy some aspects of the game like the minimal (I don't know if i used that word right) way of taming animals unlike ark and how they handled the usually problem with survival base builder games with the annoying grinding that is collecting resources with conveyors and all while the way you're base feels alive with pals interaction

>>734142589
>>734144597
People are still saying that the entire map is one model, despite this being disproven.

>>734143516
>focuses on battling, and direct character driven stories opposed to catching, lore and "vibes"
Oh shit nigger what are they doing. When I played Arceus I was thinking like "will be really nice when they polish all this stuff up." Battling and character stories were the most boring part.

>>734140962
It's a downgrade from PLA in nearly every aspect
It also somehow looks worse and there's only one area
Did I forget to mention that they were advertising $30 dlc despite the game not being out yet?

>>734144825
>It also somehow looks worse

>>734144825
>Did I forget to mention that they were advertising $30 dlc despite the game not being out yet?
Damn, that's insane. I've never heard of a game that's done that before in the history of video games.

>>734144825
the dlc is hot garbage which makes it worse.

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>>734140962
I watched my friend stream Legends arcesus for like an hour and he just walked around looking at pokemon and occasionally catching them and then asked me what I thought about it and I had to struggle to think of something to say that wasn't just "That sucked", so a 4.8 makes sense to me

>>734144671
and pokemon fans is still saying palworld was made with ai despite it being disproven and not once proven whatsover so your point is? that people are stupid and will not acknowledge their mistakes, that's the world anon you can't expect people to all be smart if that was the case we would've exonerated isreal from the very start they asked for help

>>734141581
>I'm not really a person who believes review bombing is actually usually a thing
You're retarded then.

>>734143516
PLA focusing on catching Pokemon you never used was far more repetitive than anything in ZA.

>>734140190
New pokemon mystery dungeon when? new pokemon rumble when?

>>734145959
nta but did you not play the za dlc because the missions to clear the stages require you to just spam catch a bunch of random bullshit and fill up your boxes with garbage.

>just 3 samples
>pattern
Huh?

>>734140962
The one city thing mindbroke retards

>>734146207
>New pokemon mystery dungeon when?
Never because the Switch remake flopped.

>>734146215
There's nothing like the PLA research tasks that force you use Tackle on Bidoof 25 times. You just catch 50 shitmons of the same type and release them immediately.

>>734140962
It's objectively a terrible game and the its shill defense force has no counter arguments other than "you just hate it cuz it's popular to hate it"

>>734146387
fair enough.

>>734146483
Objectively you have ligma.

>>734145819
If someone owns a game and has played it and didn't like it, they should have every right to give that game a negative review.
If someone didn't play a game their review should be deleted.

>>734146523
Yes, and ZA remains an objectively shitty game. Can we move on to the next thread or are you going to start naming boogeymens?

>>734140962
Digimon Story fanboys review bombed it.

>>734146537
*If someone owns a game and has played it or if they tried to play it and the game didn't launch despite them meeting system requirements.

>>734142092
i enjoy this for sakurai. fucking piece of shit deserves it

>>734146537
It’s just people spamming 0s to bring the score down as “revenge” for the nat dex being removed if has nothing to do with quality of the game

>>734146890
If someone bought and played the game and didn't like it because the Nat Dex was removed, they have a right to give the game a 0.

>>734142092
Kirby slop is overrated. The game is so shit that even the Sakurai bonus couldn't save it.

>>734147086
That’s just arguing that review bombing is a legitimate reaction to playing a game not that it doesn’t exist lol

>>734146890
I refuse to play any pokemon game without the full dex.

>>734147253
moving the goalpost

>>734147253
if someone gave a game a 0 because it was bad that's not a fucking review bomb. a review bomb is if someone rates a game bad that they never played or for reasons outside of the game itself.

>>734147253
Leaving a 0 isn't a review bomb. That's just a review. A review bomb is a large scale coordinated set of low reviews meant to tank the overall review score. The original post was the belief that these reviews being large scale coordinated attacks aren't "usually" a thing. Not that it doesn't happen, but rather that low user scores are more organic than that and actual bombs are rare.

>>734147218
>Sakurai bonus
The whole "(X) bonus" shit is the funniest fucking cope. Just because you don't like a game doesn't mean it got a magical fake boost to its score.

>>734147428
What goalpost was moved? We’re in agreement it was review bombed

>>734144597
>yeah, but you would think a bunch of diehard pokemon fans would change that user review scores a little higher but i guess they aren't that enthusiastic to actually care, also why are we acting like both parties haven't been review bombing each other games from the very start of the drama?

Anon if you add thousands of 0/10s and a thousands of 10/10s is going to average around 5/10 regardless of what the user opinion of the game is. The 47% is a meaningless number.

You'd have to remove all the review bombs and reactionary 10/10s othereise you'll never see the real user opinion.

>>734147489
>A review bomb is a large scale coordinated set of low reviews meant to tank the overall review score.
that's not even entirely true either. if a game's online breaks and everyone coordinates negative reviews to try to get the online working, that's not a review bomb that's just people reminding other people to give the game a negative review.

>>734147493
0.01 nintendo gold has been deposited in your account.

>>734140190
That old games don't get console war review bombed?

>>734147550
Bombing it for a "good reason" doesn't mean it's not a bomb.

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>>734141738
>They were released in a pretty unacceptable state.

OF FUCKING COURSE THEY WERE

>>734147550
I think you’re being very pedantic, people spamming 0/10s in an effort to force developer action make people would agree is review bombing even if you think it’s for a good cause

>>734147550
>that's not even entirely true either. if a game's online breaks and everyone coordinates negative reviews to try to get the online working, that's not a review bomb that's just people reminding other people to give the game a negative review.

Its still a review bomb, you don't sincerely think the game us 0/10 and if you did, you wouldn't give a crap if the devs fixed the online. You'd play a better game.

>>734147493
The Sakurai bonus is actually real though.
>"let Sakurai rest, he already does so much for us": the average faggot on Twitter

>>734147715
>>734147724
>>734147869
yes it does dipshit. If the game doesn't work anymore then I'm going to rate the game a 0.

>>734147476
>>734147489
Very rarely is a game a literal 0/10. Anyone that gives a game a 0/10 only does it for petty reasons.

>>734147724
>>734147869
>>734147974
Apparently a game literally not launching isn't a good enough reason to rate a game a 0 according to /v/ lmao.

>>734147974
tbqh any game below 6/10 might as well be considered 0/10

>>734147939
>yes it does dipshit. If the game doesn't work anymore then I'm going to rate the game a 0

Sorry I don't play always online bullshit.

>>734146483
>objectively
You keep using that word...

>>734148118
Dude, you LITERALLY just gave that hypothetical always-online game a 0/10! That's a review bomb!

>>734148004
wtf are you going on about now you’re arguing that because a non functional game deserves a 0/10 review bombing doesn’t exist

>>734148004
I wasn't apart of the hypothetical game conversation. I just said that most of the time 0/10 scores aren't made in good faith.

>>734146537
Review bombers don't play games.

>>734140190
>game review scores only matter when they match my own narrative!!!

disliking sky is the ultimate litmus test for taste, you can feel ambivalent towards it but actively disliking it shows you have absolutely abysmal taste in games

>>734148831
sky isn't that good super is the superior game, but only those with excellent taste in vidya would know.

>>734148617
so, you'll acknowledge both sides had review bombed each other games right and not just say it's only palworld fans?

>>734146537
>If someone owns a game
you failed at the very first point you made. most if not all of those seething 0 reviews are people who never bought the game.

>>734148942
super is good but no sprites reduces the soul factor by 50%

>>734143602
Dragon Quest Builders 2 was worth $60, Pokopia (Dragon Quest Builders 3) is worth $70. Sorry, unc.

>>734148617
This is literally what I said?

>>734140962
you thought wrong

>>734148831
I got the Switch MD and I do not get it I got to a mankey boss fight and stopped game just seemed childish and boring but maybe because I've ascended in regular roguelikes

>>734149249
emulate Sky, it's 100x better

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>>734140190
They really were mean to the mystery dungeon games.
I'm actually glad for it. Taught me as a kid not to take mediafags opinions seriously.

>>734148831
Sky is the best PMD but furries overhype it too much because it was the first game that made them cry as a kid.

>>734149382
It's hard proof that the "roguelike" trend is actually just "random content + pick 1 of 3."

>>734149392
I'm not a furry, I just think it's chock full of soul and has some great art and sound design. The story is also the best in the entire Pokemon franchise by far

>>734149392
You're not wrong, but it's pretty good. Up there with the best Shireb games.

>>734149249
No yeah, PMD doesn't give you proper roguelike dungeons until endgame.

>>734150305
are the endgame dungeons actually fun, like if i'm coming from Shiren 5 & 6, are any of the PMD games worth playing if i want more roguelikes?

>>734140962
lmao, no they didn't. stop listening to this fuck ass board.

>>734140190
i don't see any pattern at all. bad critic score = good user score and vice versa? i think you need more than a sample size of 2 to make that determination.

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>>734142490
And also earlier access to games; they probably figured out real quick that they can't just FULLY stonewall journos like they tried to put their foot down for at the start of the generation. Especially not when Switch 2 software sales momentum trends are shockingly poor (especially outside of Japan), nor when people have quickly started calling their leap to $70+ games across the board into question.

>>734151098
They're not awful or anything. But the game was very much built around persistent leveling.

Super is the most Shiren-like, complete with wands that act like scrolls. Try that one. Explorers is also pretty good. Rescue Team's post game is kinda grindy and ass until you finally get to the reset dungeons; the Switch remake is way better for MD fans because it streamlines the bullshit and adds more content to wallpaper over this.

Gates to Infinity has 0 appeal if you want more Shiren style content. It's an ok single player campaign and that's it.

>>734151098
All of them have that long, easy main story to get through first. Rescue Team's story is a nothing burger until the ending while the others are actually decent. If you can't stomach Explorers' story mode, just ignore the rest.

>>734151591
I think i actually have a copy of Super i picked up ages ago to hack my 3DS with when that was an entry point, and even if i don't, i have a hacked 3DS, so i'll check that one out.

>>734152053
Be warned that the entire first half of the story is being a child Pokemon and the handholding that implies.

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>>734140190
>Explorers of Sky: 5.4
What in the god damn
>look up the reviews
>journalists all complaining that it's a duplicate version that doesn't add anything
Meanwhile the reviewer in question
>duplicates his own pokemon review to get extra clicks
Clown industry

>>734148230
he uses it because its the opposite of subjectively
he can definitively list reasons as to why its a bad game by metrics anyone who isnt blinded by fanboyism can appreciate

>>734142545
palworld players don't even think about pokemon at all, believe me

>>734153429
Found this hilarious time capsule. Read these guys seething about every ubiquitous feature of roguelikes as if sadistic PMD developers just invented them to traumatize children
https://www.nintendoworldreport.com/review/15984/pokemon-mystery-dungeon-explorers-of-darkness-n-explorers-of-time-nintendo-ds
>the dungeons are random and I can't mindlessly grind because of hunger. 4.5/10

Now fast forward to 2026 and every 9/10 le hidden gem indie game is tagged "roguelike" kek

>>734154076
You're saying that a derivative work doesn't yield any recollection of the work its deriving from?

>>734143129
>they didn't have the budget
LOL

Money isn't their problem.

>>734154076
A good majority of Palworld reviews are just people saying that Pokemon sucks ass and that Palworld is better.

>>734154412
are any of those recent or from launch?

>>734154076
I don't believe you in the slightest.

>>734140190
>78
That's fucking bullshit, the 4.7 user score is much better suited for it, hell, I'd go the extra mile and give it a round 4.

>>734140962
It's actual trash and the only reason people are saying it's not is because the general consensus is that it's trash and we need to be contrarian on this retarded board.

>>734140190
>89 score 3 days before launch
That shit's gonna fall a solid 7-10 points after launch

>>734154076
>palworld players don't even think about pokemon at all
lol
lmao even

>>734140190
based

>>734140962
lmao

>>734154412
I've seen the same thing happen to palworld's review when its popularity was at its peak so it's no surprise both are review bombing each other