Thread #563489580
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Visual Novel General #7536
This general is for the discussion of English-translated Japanese visual novels.
All posting of untranslated visual novels belongs on >>>/jp/
E-celeb shitposting is not allowed.
Kindly use spoiler tags appropriately when discussing plot spoilers to facilitate smooth discussion.
>Having trouble with your VN? Try the following before you ask for tech support:
1. Be in Japanese locale
2. Read the Readme
3. Check https://rentry.org/4chan-vn-help
4. Copy error messages with CTRL+C and paste them with CTRL+V into DeepL
5. Google it
>FAQs, Recommendations, and Other Useful Things:
https://chartanon.github.io/moechart/
https://files.catbox.moe/j3dd0n.png
https://github.com/marisukukise/japReader
>Need a novel with a specific element?
https://vndb.org/g
>Download Links:
https://rentry.org/4chan-vn-links
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>>563489848
Redman and Blueman.
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Confess...
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>>563490213
https://vndb.org/v30807
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>>563490459
Play Great Deceiver.
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>>563490387
It's okay, there's no way I'll ever believe Margot is under 22 years old
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Why do megane/class rep heroines never look like this?
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>>563492428
It's always uggos like this
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>>563490387
Get in.
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>Writer ghosts for over a year
>Out nowhere he comes back and announces Aselia remake, coming out maybe this year even.
I REALLY wasn't expecting that.
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>>563490710
She's literally a minor.
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>>563494320
https://ci-en.net/creator/11851/article/1775357
https://ci-en.net/creator/36204/article/1777985
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Please work and let me be unbanned...
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redrizzler here
this thread gon be bussin ong fr fr no cap
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>>563494825
I missed even (You) and (You) are one of the biggest monkeys I have seen in this general...
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>>563494984
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>>563494314
>i heard it can get grindy.
Kinda, not really? The grindiest game (base Rance Quest) had so many patches before getting localized that you have a in-game double exp and gold option to cheese through everything. Sengoku Rance is very anti-grind if you're just beating the story, you just use the characters as you get them. Every from 6 onwards is pretty long though. You could enjoy Rance 01 and 02 since they are pretty short.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMPBTIdenkk
Going through a "life-changing" read really feels like you took a pill that makes you feel like this world is real and that you exist here... that this is your reality, and the one you go through when you wake up, go to the toilet, and sleep is the fake one... we only exist online, this is our reality, if it wasn't? the world would have not allowed it to exist... for a universe this vast to be inside our own vast universe... we live in multi-universes but in the same one... this is not science... this is magic... the scientists of today are hacks who are very slow in doing things because they don't believe in magic, the best scientists? they are people you don't know about and use magic mainly to do everything that would shatter brains... those things being the computers and the internet... a small universe you can hold in one of your hands, yet it is so vast, the human brain can't comprehend it, and it is ever-growing and never-ending... reaching new levels that we who are living in this age would have never imagined it to reach them... our lives and souls in the current internet? will be forgotten for the future generations even if we left our legacy for them..we are under the mercy of the server masters who can delete our whole self in one click of a button..all of our works and years..our life itself that is living in this digital world could be gone whenever they like..doesn't this make them too powerful? should a human being really be allowed to have this much power? giving the soul and taking it is something exclusive to God. even if the spirits and devils did their best, all they can do is take it..but they don't give life..but those humans with their new-age magic now can make you live a second life inside a new-verse, and they also can take this life..how is this fair? how is it fair for us to live twice and also die twice? we can't live forever in the first world..why can't we live forever in the digital world?
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>>563496965
Heaven Burns Red (ヘブンバーンズレッド, Hebun Bānzu Reddo) (stylized in block capitals) is a free-to-play mobile role-playing video game[citation needed] co-developed by WFS, Inc. and Key. It was released on February 10, 2022, for iOS and Android in Japan.
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>Eleonore's daughter helps her fight Lisa
KINO. She should desintegrate from pure seethium alone.
>declared she dislikes women
>is the manliest female in cast
Ain't no way she's losing given Masada's thoughts on the matter
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We love used goddesses here.
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I love Karen
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We love Karenposter, AIsis, Detbro, Manager, 1788king, Floodbro, JOPcuties and every other /vn/cutie... make this general a general of love~
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>>563499379
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>>563499924
Meant for >>563489979
>>563494956
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Im a complete newfag when it comes buyfagging i have only two dakis and thats it.
Was going to buy kazusa and chachamaru figurine/daki as remembrance of great vn and i loved them that much, also might as well support the devs because i pirate everything. Anyway i found out its all limited and gets sold out quickly, so its over basically? Expecting new merchandise from such old works are out of question, bro how fucked am i?
I guess i will keep checking amiami with some false hope :/
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But legit, finishing a ~life-changing~ ge really changes you as a person... Like am only feeling butterflies and flowers for like the last 2 days since I finished another story from Maeda-sensei... my life got changed 3 times and they were with Heaven Burns Red, Angel Beats! 1st Beat and MOON. the first 2? they made me incapable of playing anything else after finishing them and I just feel so filled emotionally... while the last one? it was like living through a nightmare that lasted for a couple of days... I don't even remember what I was doing throughout it other than how I felt very cheap and not like my usual self... it did change me... but that change? it was one that felt like it turned me into something very rotten and bad... which is amazing for a vn to do when am so much in love with myself...
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She's so great
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Will it ever be topped?
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>>563501115
*cackles*
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>>563501115
You mean Shiturashi itself topping this? Don't think so. This was the most chuuni/fun moment in the whole 200 dreadful read... Rena deserved to be in a better ge with a better writer ,-,
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Don't be dead when am around...
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Very cute and smart for a retard.
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>>563502960
My favorite route and heroine in Extra
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>>563504449
it's translated tho
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I felt like playing a bit of Dracu Riot during my lunch break (I work remotely and live with my parents who are right behind me during this breakI'm a loser, I know. But I love them so much I hope this will go on for years and years. Too bad by father is 80 already). 2 minutes into it, I see this. I don't think I can continue playing. Back to Octopath Traveler 0 I go.
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I want to blogpost the trapge or even the shit Liar-soft... but am still going through the life-is-changed-syndrome so I really can't read and my body is also sensitive from yesterday... and I know that if I share my feelings about HBR here I will annoy /vn/cuties and I don't want to annoy my friends...
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Do you like it when moebutas appear in a VN?
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>>563504930
>>563505086
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Aoko owes me sex.
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>>563505989
Forgot to mention that I look like this >>563505856
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>>563505881
It's owari for EOPs
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>>563505881
>O 0
>l I
>w is called "double u" when it's 2 Vs
>B 8
>6 b
>2 Z
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Would you still like Akiha if she was green?
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I cant bring myself to care about moege girls, almost on gachachit level disinterest and im not saying this to be an asshole, right now im reading majikoi and im enjoying the casual romance but none of those girls will live rent free in my head like kazusa or chachamaru or micher does(few examples)
Cant help but wonder why is that the case? Too little hardships to make the relationship meaningful? No struggle/problems to overcome to add emotional weight? Really cant put in words the reason i wonder if its just my tism acting up or is there anyone else like that.
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>I don't love Akiha
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>joke old man is behind everything
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>>563507430
*sad buhiii noises*
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>>563505856
>>563506096
He looks pretty high IQ, just look at his glasses.
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>>563507795
Couple of days ago I was mentally unwell so I went on TF2 and I was saying lots of mean things in the chat, one of the players was Polish and I told him about AIsir and what he goes through here and what anons say about him. He told me our community seems like a shithole so I bullied him more to take revenge for us and to save our name from belittlement V-V
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My favourite little homo
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Qruppo status?
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>>563510648
He need to teach all the thread how to JOP like him and to forcefully turn all EOPs into JOPs... I think /vn/cuties would start caring more if this happened~
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>>563510934
it's an easy way to get (You)s from chuds
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>>563510934
>>563511056
Please don't be so mean to the zoomers, they don't know any better...
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>>563511167
Jun Maeda
KEYno
MANYO
erogamescape
steam
r/visualnovels
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>>563511280
>>563511226
dumb newfags kek
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>>563511113
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>>563511961
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>>563512071
Try to do anything to me and your fate will be sealed~
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>>563512502
I really doubt he is cuter than the guys I know which I also don't view like that at all. Am simply built for women. This is how us, biological men are built like~
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>>563512703
>traps or femboys
Don't mix fiction with real life. I like them in fiction but the ones in real life... they just don't seem right, I don't mind them existing... but to be in a relationship with them?... I think if I like the personality of them so much, I would make a man out of them and fix them... this is IF I was a girl, but am a man so why the hell should I do it? Am not into men at all!
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KIMIKAAAAAA!!!
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>>563512793
Look at the timing dum-dum... INB4 "VIP or 2 IPS" you really think am a hacker/cracker/coder to do this?...
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>>563513449
I'm taken! Leave me alone!
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>>563513416
I really really REALLLLY don't want to take a shower... but if I used the toilet to R07, and the timing was correct, I would blogpost it and then go finish the cohabitation nukige I got only 2 CGs left in and finish the last couple of h-scenes from part 2 of Monster Quest Girl... after that I will take a shower and clean the filth of being an nukigeMONG out of me...
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When you see a loli!
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>>563513098
Make a man out of him >>563513314
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It's Muramasa Monday!
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>>563514413
Such a shame that such a delicious brown is wasted on NTRmasa.
>>563514448
Same dev as the reincarnation vinny, yeah? I gotta read more of their stuff, I though-roughly enjoyed the aforementioned and look back on it often.
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>>563514405
I remember checking the archive before I started reading Angel Beats! 1st Beat to see if anons here talked about the TL or some secret patch here or there, and there was like only 10 posts in all of /vg/'s history? it was mostly 1 anon talking about it... I wish he was here to be my eternal ally...
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>>563514552
Die uminegro! you don't belong in /vn/
>>563514413
Based
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>>563513992
She's maybe the best girl
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>>563514965
That would have been a war crime.
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billboard top 100 material right here
https://soundcloud.com/rokuhara/ame-no-you-ni-namida-ga-ochiru/s-inlWO d4ZLb0?in=rokuhara/sets/rokuharas-b est//s-aH3VreiWF1L
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>heroine gets raped
>"heh your small cock could never satisfy me as much a mc-kun's cock"
>you manage to save her before the villain shoots his sperm deep inside her womb
Is it cuckshit at this point? Even if the heroine didn't enjoy it?
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>>563516081
If the villain fucks her vagina it's NTR. If he fucks her ass then it isn't.
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>>563513314
Right! Before I forget, look what you did to my music recap T0T
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>>563516817
I'd like that.
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>>563489580
>See a physical copy of Albatross on ebay for $120ish
>Agonize over buying it for weeks
>Finally do it
>Seller instantly cancels my order
Hey, come on...
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>>563516989
By last two I mean this and last, not >>563513736 don't get atri'd
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I want to rape Reinhard
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>>563518036
this
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>>563517897
moeGODS are always welcome
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Seeing how there are lots of /vn/cuties who hate type-shit really makes me feel comfy and happy to be around sane posters. The internet is really infested with those type-shitters, I filtered most of them so I don't see their posts anymore, but am happy to see my allies still fighting back against the evil side of the industry. Always remember how they caved for gacha AND all-ages while making tons of money even as an eroge company... they really sold-out just to make more money and not to stay alive like the other poor vn makers...
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>>563517897
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>>563518825
>>563518036
then stop crying about aiGOD and abDULL
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>>563519035
KEYno created the all-ages genre. Here is the difference~ they didn't cave, they are the ones who changed directiones willingly because their story are art and h-scenes are not~
>gacha
After HBR was released, they also released 11 visual novels... how many did TYPE-SHIT release? Red Garden is coming any day right? wwwwww just sit down used-goods moePIG~
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>>563519516
PIG, stop talking to me if you got nothing that is worthy of my attention, this is the last time am responding to your account
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>>563519640
maybe on planet maedacuck cock guzzler retard
>>563519745
AISIR HE'S HERE ONEGAI
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QA...
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>>563520387
Yeah, the one where Yamato gets kidnapped (optional: where he gets anally raped in a bad end) by the sisters and has a threesome to escape, then he gets a double blowjob from Momoyo and Miyako at their hideout.
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>>563519478
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>>563520517
Ishi-san is a hard worker.
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>>563521096
https://vndb.org/v14494
Nah I'm good.
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>>563521096
https://vndb.org/v57431
How am I supposed to find this?
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>>563521096
Hidden gemmy?
https://vndb.org/v62780
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>>563521096
https://vndb.org/v50510
I would've played it if JOPing wasn't a big fat lie and everyone seems to have a little slave next to him telling him what is happening in the story instead of them reading it themselves
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>>563521096
https://vndb.org/v5913
I don't particularly like rape
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This week's top selling VNs (fanza)
#1 - LLJ
#2 - Genrin no Kishougun Remastered (pre-order)
#3 - Yuukan Madam Club
#4 - Oppai Bunny
#5 - Souten Koihime -Shigen no Ou- (50% off sale)
#6 - Saimin Seishidou (30% off sale)
#7 - Icha Ane! (50% off sale)
#8 - Dimension Totsu Lovers (pre-order)
#9 - Lip lipples (70% off sale)
#10 - Nukitashi 1+2 Pack
Last week >>562732409
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>>563522546
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>>563516751
Yay!
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>>563522546
>#3 - Yuukan Madam Club
Based!
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>>563522546
Oppai will never stop winning.
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Rape is the most interesting themes when it is done correctly, Japanese got the right idea to write about it, but they lack the professionalism to write it without inserting certain fetishes and moans here and there and turning the whole act into mockery of how real rape is. Rape victims do not react like that. Yes their bodies will still produce fluids, this is a normal physiological reaction, but they will not enjoy it and suddenly turn into a type-shit girl enjoying being used-good by the whole servants and master new, and old. Rape victims will also be mentally scarred in such a way that will lead them most of the times to do drastic stuff or changes. Something also most writers don't capture correctly and they make the raped girl keep going for it. It reminds me of a joke that Bobby Lee (Asian-American) made about how he was touched by that guy as a child in the street and he kept going into that street for the whole summer always getting touched. He is saying it as a joke and for the shock factor..but those writers? They legit make the girls this brain-dead to the point of somehow always falling to the rapist..I understand that the Japanese got that comedy rape theme they love (Rance lived for years and years thanks to the MONGs), so I know that me reading those nukige and expecting to get serious rape is kinda mb, but also,a work like DD that got props for showing how the girls suffered from the rape is a JOKE. I will never forgive those reviewers who fooled me. What was shown about them after the rape is them talking to the MC for 20 seconds and then getting cured from the shock of the rape..you are telling me that a girl who just went through the worst thing a girl can go through regarding her body would take this much to get cured? But when I call the writers MEN PIGS I get called a foid? KYS with all due respect <3 not everything is about comedy and laughing.Raping,killing children or eating them.Those are heavy topics.You can't just write them for comedy
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>>563522546
>>563522871
Sei GODjou won
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>azusa on the yt recommended
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>>563522241
>>563522312
Because I like the idea of rape but girls crying and stuff makes me sad.
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>>563523531
Madosoft is popular too. It's just that they have no new release other than fandiscs and projects by their B team.
Hamikuri and Cafe Stella have similar amounts of votes on EGS.
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Vns for this feel?
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>>563523786
based yuzu modders
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>>563524527
You already said that, きさま!
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>>563499331
>>563500202
>>563507430
Imagine liking wa2 lmao. Jk, taste is subjective and it's ok if you liked that vn :)
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>I hate JOPs!
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>>563525141
Only if its side character, only bugman wants to see main heroine raped by others.
Again i tolerated some of rape by others ges and it always feel cheap and cant compare to real kamiges that dont rely on such trash.
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>>563525248
Muvvy luvvy? Saya no Uta?
>>563525291
It's not about what you want to see, vns are more than just power fantasies(maybe)
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>>563525263
clannad was my firstanime
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>>563525380
>I think appeasing normiefags by removing a core part of what made something special in the first place to become the same as the slop goys consume was a good thing
>...wait, why are all vns samey slop now just like anime and manga. How could this happen????
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>>563525534
I mean I don't see why you'd want them. I was comparing to Cafe Stella because it and Hamikuri released in a similar time period.
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>>563525641
>literal monster that can instantly kill a man somehow gets raped
Srsly? Thats your ground breaking argument?
Even funnier then she herself went looking for someone more that will "accept" her, what a slut.
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>>563525897
There are lots of shit in any given medium. More news at 11. You think every song released is gonna be a banger and not terrible/samey shit? Books? Movies? Anime? Vn's are no exception. It was their unfiltered nature that allowed them to carve out a niche and push out some of the most iconic works that shaped this medium.
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>>563489580
>best vinnie this
>best vinnie that
>{HE} joins the chat
>Maruto shivering
>R07 getting bullied
>Shimizu Hatsumi Smirking
>SCA-Ji doing it in his pants
>Narahara feeling betrayed
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>>563525636
This has to be a falseflag, vn is the easiest medium to self insert.
>most of the time unvoiced mc (you can turn mc voice off if it bothers you that much)
>characters facing (you) when talking with sprites
>importance of (your) decisions
When i was 12 i could self insert as vegeta when playing in playground you just have to be very self hating and depressed to not being able self insert in vns kek
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>>563526101
>some of the most iconic works that shaped this medium.
>has to use "some" because Kamineko destroys his argument
Anyways you should push for vns with more interesting sex scenes that have a better connection to the plot. Also more varied fetishes, not ntr-slop though.
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Did an R07... so now like I promised, will blogpost the trapge... I will take a shower after so we FINE.
>>563523691
Like the folklore EU stories... somehow they are always about kids getting eaten... EU fellas are real weirdos ~_~_~_~
>>563524428
If I was a rapist, no /vn/cutie would be safe and I would find a way to turn all of you into women and then impregnate (You). But am not so you are safe!for now
>>563524491
But like you can't even reach me without getting beheaded, why do you try to sound tough online?
>>563525003
Both types of rape can be good or can be bad. The rape-by-MC written by Narahara for his first ge were very childish and terrible.
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>>563526484
The point is VN's were able to carve out a niche for themselves and put out iconic works because of the inclusion of H-scenes meant they didn't have to hold back and had full creative freedom. Some of the most iconic VN's were eroge. The current tourist epidemic is gonna do to vn's what they did to anime. Samey slop that appeals to the lowest common denominator since nobody wants to take chances to innovate
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>/vn/ cuties do be like that
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>>563526890
Could be worse
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>>563526949
>>563526265
>you have to self-insert into every vn !!
Are you a dumb zoomer? Only they are this obsessed with self-inserting.
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>>563526856
It's a postulate. You invent some random set of laws and then calculate its implications. If they are a consistant with all real observations then you have a new theory. Otherwise you reject the laws.
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>>563526921
>Some of the most iconic VN's were eroge.
and some are all-ages too lol
>Samey slop that appeals to the lowest common denominator since nobody wants to take chances to innovate
already applies, nothing new. sometimes a rare innovative eroge still comes out and same goes for all-ages
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>>563527171
That has absolutely nothing to do with my post. Are you?
>>563527006
True but still irrelevant to my post.
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>>563526856
>>563527183
scientific laws aren't "laws"
you can't prove anything in science, you can observe that things empirically match a theory
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>>563527254
Most of the iconic ones were eroge lets be real. We get less innovative eroge now cause vn's are in a transitory period of appealing to normies/global market. This has been going on for years now. You get the rare exceptions like qruppo but those are exceptions.
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>/vn/ is filled with erogeMONGS/nukiMONGs
But I still love this place...
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>>563527757
>are in a transitory period of appealing to normies/global market
Or because a lot of the big writers have moved on/are working on never-ending projects? Nothing made in the last 6 years compares to the best of 2000s/2010s.
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>>563527878
>>563527183
>>563527397
>the average /vn/ anon is a cutie
Is this a law, a postulate, an observation or a theory?
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>>563528241
it's a wild baseless theory or postulate at best because you have no evidence to back it up
there's no observation
you don't know what any /vn/ anons look like let alone the average
you can have a theory about anything
>i have a theory that there are six serial killers who post on /vn/
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>>563527361
Calling someone soulless because he can't self-insert is dumb because reaching a certain age makes self-inserting harder for most people. Zoom-zooms have an easier time doing it, especially when the mc is in his teens/early twenties.
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>>563528336
Yes it does, plenty of vn writers that move on to all ages or vn companies that transition to all ages. Some transition to gacha but then we go into the debate if a vn company moves on to gacha, are they catering to the market or have they simply become something else?
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>>563528048
Math is not a science.
Science is defined by using the scientific method. You hypothesize something, you conduct an experiment, you see if the results support or refute the theory.
Math doesn't rely on experiments (unless you're doing some silly applied math thing). Mathematical laws are laws proven by axioms.
>>563528625
Oh my god, no, you dumbass
You can't "prove" the "law of gravity". Every formal and informal experiment ever conducted is consistent with the theory of gravity being proportional to mass times inverse distance squared. But that doesn't "prove" gravity works like that. Maybe gravity only works like that 99.99999% of the time. Maybe it's actually proportional to inverse of distance to the 2.000000001th power.
>rarely ever deviates
that would make it not a law
It's critical that a scientist (or science enthusiast) understands that it's literally impossible for science to prove something in the affirmative using the scientific method.
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>>563528290
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Science?
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>>563529042
You're conflating the theory of gravity with the law of gravity. Gravity is what we call the 'thing' that pulls us back down. We KNOW that thing is the 'force' we have to overcome if we want to leave the ground. That IS proven retard. You can jump up on earth ad infinitum until the sun blows up, you will ALWAYS come back down.
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>>563529354
>>563529042
Uhm? Visual Novels?
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>>563529458
The best character in visual novels is a Scientist.
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The new sequel to Making Lovers you lads keep talking about!?
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>>563529354
>You can jump up on earth ad infinitum until the sun blows up, you will ALWAYS come back down.
You don't know this. Science doesn't say this. Someone could jump tomorrow and float off the planet. You just have faith in this happening. You would be right to have faith. I wouldn't bet against you. You have a 99.999999% of being right. But you're not 100% right. Science doesn't prove anything, it only disproves hypotheses. Math, on the other hand, is uniquely able to classify things as 100% true. That is the meaning of a "proof".
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>me after I open /vn/
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I think Kurusu poster is right.
It is largely accurate that science cannot "prove" anything in the absolute, affirmative sense (e.g., "X is 100% true forever"). The scientific method relies on inductive reasoning and falsifiability, meaning theories are only supported by evidence and can be disproven by a single counter-example, rendering them tentative rather than absolute truths.
Key Reasons Science Cannot Provide Absolute Proof:
Inductive Reasoning: Science draws general conclusions from limited observations (e.g., "all swans are white" based on seeing 100 white swans). This never guarantees the next observation won't be a black swan.
Falsifiability (Karl Popper): Scientific methods are designed to falsify (disprove) hypotheses, not prove them. A theory survives only as long as it has not been proven wrong.
Provisional Knowledge: Scientific knowledge is always subject to revision based on new data or better measurements.
Alternative Explanations: For any set of data, multiple hypotheses might explain the results, making it impossible to definitively claim one is "the" absolute truth.
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>>563529674
Are you going to cite quantum physics now? Also if we're going on nothing is 100% right then mathematical proofs have been disproven before.
Humans are not perfect, science, logic, math and how we interpret or generate their abstractions are all subject to human flaw, so NOTHING is truly 100% proven
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>>563529458
No visual novels here, dummy
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>wasting all of this time trying to understand "science" when it is just simply the new type of magic of this age that is millenniums backward compared to the old OG magic that only {THEM} know about today
Do scienceMONGs really? ww
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>>563530104
I hate "ChatGPT what should I think?" posters too. Hopefully you're at the very least you're reading and understanding that argument for yourself and not just "looks like X won this argument"
I will keep posting Kurisu though.
>>563530131
Then those proofs were wrong. But there are correct proofs. If you take a right triangle in the Euclidean plane, the sum of the squares of lengths of the legs is equal to the sum of the square of the length of the hypotenuse. That will always be true, 100% of the time, forever. There is no counterexample. There can't be a counterexample. It's a truism, a fact, a proven certainty, that "science" can never approach.
Every positive integer can be expressed as the sum of four square numbers. That's a fact. There is a proof for it, and that proof is unassailable, and so I can say with 100% certainty that it's true.
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>>563530104
We can extend this and say our laws and understanding of the universe hinges entirely on our subjective observations and it could be completely wrong for all we know. But in practice for our day to day applications, things like the laws of gravity, the laws of buoyancy are treated as proven until some freak occurrence completely unravels everything we know about the natural world.
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>>563530827
Although he is often misquoted, Ludwig Wittgenstein did not actually write Subarashiki Hibi.
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>>563530523
>But in practice for our day to day applications, things like the laws of gravity, the laws of buoyancy
This is fine. This is why we do science. It's very helpful and applicable to our world. It helps us predict things and get things done. Theories help make the world make sense.
>treated as proven
This is sort of fine. Yeah, we can assume gravity and electricity and radioactivity works the way we think it does, and that it will keep doing that tomorrow, and build machines and undertake huge projects that rely on those assumptions, and we'll almost certainly be fine. Almost certainly. Not certainly. A good scientist avoids using the word "proof" and should probably avoid using the word "law", although they can be useful shorthand.
The entire epistemic foundation of science is that we have theories that fit our observations, and that it's always possible one future observation will overturn the entirety of what we think we know. It's always what we think we know, not what we know.
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>how the scienceMONGs look at you when you spit the fact of how what they know is just simply a big, fat, lie created by {THEM} so that they are always behind in power while {THEY} use magic
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>>563530519
And if some new discovery happens that disproves your euclidean theory? Your integer example is borrowing from Godels incompleteness theorem but you are forgetting one truth. All that we know and observe is subject to our observation. They make sense and are logically consistent in the context of our perspective. There could be entities out there that see things different and completely undermine and unravel what we know to be "true". So in that sense, no nothing is guaranteed. If we are going to operate on the possibility there is some freak exception out there that will violate the laws of thermodynamics, gravity, buoyancy then the same will hold for your mathematical axioms.
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>>563529619
I mean Hamidashi Creative seems to have done well in China (the only region that matters).
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Today I will remind them
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>>563531219
This is a (common) misunderstanding of Godel's Incompleteness Theorem. You will have to take a course on logic or complexity theory to fully understand this. But, no, there will never be a discovery that unravels an existing proof.
Here is your crash course on Godel's theorems. Take any set of axioms. Let's say you have three axioms, A1, A2, A3. These axioms + logical reasoning gives you a set of theorems. T1, T2, T3, T4, etc. These are truths with proofs that come out of the axioms.
This is a self-contained system. Under the assumptions that A1, A2, A3 are true, T1, T2, T3, T4 are true. That is the fact/truism/unassailable certainty that math provides.
What Godel's incompleteness says is that it's impossible for a set of axioms to exist that is both consistent and complete. Complete is the key word here (as indicated by incompleteness theorem). Complete means that ANY statement you can make can be proven true or false. T1, T2, T3, ... makes up every single statement (or its negation) about natural numbers. THAT is what is impossible, not that T1, T2, T3 can potentially be disproven, or that T1, T2, T3 are incorrect under A1, A2, A3.
For any set of axioms that can prove every statement in the system, it's possible to find an inconsistency, a theorem TN that can both be proven and disproven using the axioms.
It's a statement on the limitation of what you can prove using sets of axioms, not a "haha math is wrong and broken, gotcha".
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>>563531056
Why do you keep bringing up theories when I'm talking about scientific laws. They are completely different. Laws are observed like your mathematical axioms. You can repeat it as many times as possible and you will always get the same result. Theories attempt to explain why and need to defend themselves vigorously from attempts to disprove them. I can observe that if the temperature is warm enough ice melts. This is a proven FACT based on observation. You can watch the same phenomena ceteris parabis and you will ALWAYS get the same result. The attempt to explain WHY ice melts when it's warm enough given by atomic theory is not proven 100%. That is the difference.
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Mahoyo part 2 doko?
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>all of those wall texts
Do /vn/cuties really think we like to read in this general...
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>>563532460
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>>563532256
Here's a concrete example.
"There is no number x such that x^2 = -1".
This is "true" under the integer axioms. But if you add the axiom "there is a number 'i' that when squared gives you -1", and you're now working in the complex numbers, this statement is now true. The truthiness or falsiness depends on the axioms. But once you get those axioms, it's provable or disprovable (or neither).
Godel says there's no set of axioms that is both complete and consistent. We don't care about inconsistent axiom systems because in those, you can prove True = False and then you can prove literally anything. Inside of our incomplete, but consistent axiom sets, like ZFC
>>563532384
You are retarded. Die.
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>>563532648
>>563532814
>>563532950
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>>563532929
https://www.reddit.com/r/visualnovels/comments/1s9npdu/nekoday_revivin g_the_visual_novels_industry/
Pretty much this!
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>>563532384
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_law
Read this god damn article.
> It is generally understood that they implicitly reflect, though they do not explicitly assert, causal relationships fundamental to reality,
> As with other kinds of scientific knowledge, scientific laws do not express absolute certainty, as mathematical laws do. A scientific law may be contradicted, restricted, or extended by future observations.
>Science distinguishes a law or theory from facts. Calling a law a fact is ambiguous, an overstatement, or an equivocation. The nature of scientific laws has been much discussed in philosophy, but scientific laws are empirical conclusions reached by the scientific method; they are intended to be neither laden with ontological commitments nor statements of logical absolutes.
>Like theories and hypotheses, laws make predictions; specifically, they predict that new observations will conform to the given law. Laws can be falsified if they are found in contradiction with new data.
>>563532880
Yes, I meant False. It's true in one axiom set and false in another. Thanks.
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>>563533341
Let me guess
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender
made you mad, chuddie?
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>>563533408
meant for >>563195362
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>>563533295
>wikipedia
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>>563533295
>wikipedia
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>>563532256
That is not what i was saying. You cited the axioms of natural numbers and i brought up godels theorem to counter that as his first theorem asserts that "no consistent system of axioms whose theorems can be listed by an effective procedure (i.e. an algorithm) is capable of proving all truths about the arithmetic of natural numbers. For any such consistent formal system, there will always be statements about natural numbers that are true, but that are unprovable within the system. Equivalently, there will always be statements about natural numbers that are false, but that cannot be proved false within the system. "
>There will never be a discovery that unravels an existing proof
Polya conjecture? Malfattis problem? Busemann-petty problem? And many other widely accepted proofs that were later disproven via new discoveries?
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>>563532648
That's not an example for Gödel's incompleteness theorem. There is no number x such that x^2 = -1 is false in the real numbers. There's no inconsistency and no incompleteness.
The halting problem is a better example.
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>>563533814
>false
*true
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>>563533991
The VN in the OP.
https://vndb.org/v1390
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>>563533707
Read this.
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>>563533991
https://vndb.org/v183
Written by the Butcher as well.
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all le hecking science can be deboonked if you change the basic assumptions everything is build upon
sadly, all of them are non-falsifiablefor nowso they are instantly discarded into the pseudo-science/metaphysics bin
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>>563534305 (Me)
...as >>563534092
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>>563533595
>Godel's Incompleteness Theorem
As I tried to point out, this says nothing about the validity of proofs. Heck, even proofs in
>Polya conjecture? Malfattis problem? Busemann-petty problem?
Did ChatGPT spit these out for you? None of them had proofs that were overturned. They were conjectures. Akin to scientific hypotheses. As counterexamples were found, they were disproven.
It's possible for a lower-profile proof to contain a mistake, and be overturned, but that just means the proof was wrong. "Find the error in the proof" is a common exercise. Some proofs (like the Miyazaki abc-conjecture controversy) are less trusted than others. But there are many, many proofs out there that you can bet your life on.
> widely accepted proofs that were later disproven via new discoveries?
This has (probably) never, ever happened. Widely accepted conjectures or theories being disproven, yes. Widely accepted proofs? No.
>>563533814
It's not, no, it's an example of your choice of axioms determining the truthiness or falsiness of a statement. The statement S = "x^2 = -1 has no solutions" is true in one set of axioms and false in one set of axioms, and those are both valid proofs. That's just an early step in understanding Godel's theorems which I find is useful to show new students to help clarify what it's saying.
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>>563534408
Both are not about visual novels you monkey. This is why we only use /vn/ during KINO American hours where the anons here start talking about vinnies... Americans will save the day once again~
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https://vndb.org/v11687#main
>short (5h from 4 votes)
Whoever rates these reading times has got to be ctrling through the plot.
I've been reading for close to 6-7 hours and still haven't unlocked a third of the h-scene gallery.
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>>563533295
If we're going to operate on that assumption that scientific laws are just as susceptible to being contradicted, disproven as theories are, then how do you contend with things like the discovery/invention of imaginary numbers? Squares of negatives was undefined under existing mathematical laws because there is no set of integers that when squared will yield a negative number?
Under current existing mathematical axioms, the number 0 presents a lot of problems, most famously division by 0. Who is say someone down the line doesn't discover something new like the imaginary numbers case that later disproves division by 0 is infinity/undefined?
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>>563534385
>Heck, even proofs in
I don't know where I was going. I think I was going to say that a proof in an inconsistent system is still "valid", ergo., if you do have a proof for both TN and "not TN", and you use that to prove (TN and not TN => 1 = 2), then 1 = 2 under your axiom set. The proof is valid, the theorem is true in your system, but the conclusion is obviously junk.
The big meta point is that 100% flawless logical proofs and theorems exist in math and don't exist in science. Scientific laws are not 100%. That's the main (only) real thing I'm trying to argue.
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>>563534385
>It's not, no, it's an example of your choice of axioms determining the truthiness or falsiness of a statement.
Okay but Gödel says that not all true statements can be proven from within the system. Where is that in your example?
In the halting problem you assume that the halting problem is decidable and as a consequence you run into a contradiction
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>>563534636
Is the case for most nukige length votes.
Pic related is 1.1 million characters long (same length as muramasa).
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>>563534884
Recommend me hetero trapge right now
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>>563535186
>>563534636
AGP inducing
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>>563534251
too bad just reading this thing is really hard
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>A new kind of simulation game where you become a corrupt official and ensnare the daughters of Edo with your poisonous fangs!
https://vndb.org/v52975
Do you like VNs where you play as a corrupt official?
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>>563535243
Only if you're too weak.
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>>563535001
How long was the oppai ge? vndbMONGs said it took them 20 hours but I was reading it for like half a year?
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>>563534723
This is where I refer you to the example in this comment. >>563532648
For centuries people treated negative numbers as not having square roots. Then someone had an idea and created a system which had an axiom, that something called "i" exists and when you square it you get -1. And that system turned out to be deep and useful and worth thinking about, and now suddenly, a new branch of math existed.
But the original field of math, limited to the real numbers, still existed, and still has an entire world of theorems and laws that rely on x^2 = -1 having no solutions, that are valid and true under the axioms of the real numbers. There was no "invalidation" of existing theories. There was the opening of new theories.
>>563534986
Incompleteness doesn't pertain to the validity of proofs. There exist statements that can't be proven. That doesn't mean that proofs that do exist are wrong or falsifiable.
Again, refer to the "Solve for x: x^2 = -1" example. If x is limited to the real numbers, this has no solution. If x can be complex, this has solutions. That is not a contradiction. If you change the set of axioms you work under, you get a new set of truths and proofs, you don't invalidate truths and proofs in other systems.
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>>563535074
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>pretend bar encounter
cute
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By the way, I think Muramasaschizo is worse than Uminekoschizo.
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>>563535723
How? Now there are 2 scientists.
>>563535760
Muramasaschizo=Muramasahater or Muramasafan?
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>finally subahibi /a/ funthread
>not instantly nuked
>can't post because I got 3 days there
This is horrible.
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I reread Steins;Gate recently andit honestly wasn't as good as I remembered it.
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>>563534385
https://mathoverflow.net/questions/35468/widely-accepted-mathematical- results-that-were-later-shown-to-be -wrong
was my source.
How else do you define a proof then if it's not a powerful consensus among relevant peers of the mathematical community about the soundness of the logic based on their interpretation of the problem?
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>>563534986
>Again, refer to the "Solve for x: x^2 = -1" example. If x is limited to the real numbers, this has no solution
Yeah but for that to be a good example it should be impossible to prove that there are no solutions.
Halting problem example:
Turing machine A can decide if a turing machine T halts or runs in an infinite loop.
Build Turing machine B that has A built-in and does the opposite of what A decides.
If A decides that T halts, then B goes into an infinite loop.
If A decides that T runs in an infinite loop, then B halts.
Now feed B to itself as an input.
If A says B halts, then B goes into an infinite loop.
If A says B doesn't halt, then B halts.
Therefore A can't exist because B can't halt and not halt at the same time. But that leaves us with Turing machines that halt but we can't prove that they do
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>>563536302
>How else do you define a proof then if it's not a powerful consensus
This is not a proof. Consensus isn't proof. A proof is a sequence of steps, building off of existing theorems or axioms, that logically results in a conclusion. It is true that that's what a "law" is in science, basically a widely-accepted assumption that some theory will never be overturned. That's where science differs from math.
"Mathematicians all generally thought X was probably true, and then suddenly someone came up with a counterexample for X" is not a proof being overturned.
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>>563536121
We will use this thread.
>t. us
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>>563536415
I dunno man, there's some seriously stupid stuff in it.
Likewhy does baldie even work for SERN earnestly anymore? He has no reason to report the IBC5100 because that'd fuck over his and his daughter's life. There's nothing in it for him to..
He inherited a house and a shop from Suzuha and shouldn't be pressed for money that badly
Then there's the infuriating Lukako ending whereOkabe decides that he can't revert Lukako's gender in good faith and gives up on Mayuri's life - not even a week in-universe after he sacrificed Faris' father in order to reach this worldline.
Plus the whole premise doesn't make sense because it's based on a time paradox that shouldn't exist as it does according to the rules of Reading Steiner.
Don't get me wrong, it's still a great VN, but it isn't the impeccable masterpiece I once thought it was.
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>>563537263
>Plus the whole premise doesn't make sense because it's based on a time paradox that shouldn't exist as it does according to the rules of Reading Steiner.
??
>side routes
non canon, don't care
>baldie
he knows that if sern finds out he didn't reported they'll -ACK! his daughter
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>>563536829
And who acknowledges the logic that results into the conclusion? Who peer reviews it and says "this is correct"? You and others cite the possibility that something else can come up which contradicts a scientific law. In that case humans adjust their understanding and try to adapt, kinda like what mathematicians did with imaginary numbers to get around cubic problems. Or how cantor came up with the idea that infinity has different sizes. It is currently mathematically "proven" that division by 0 is impossible. Who is to say 10,50,100 years down the road something similar to imaginary numbers occurs and division by 0 is now possible under a new framework?
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>>563489580
Is there a torrent or download for this in Japanese? I really wanna read it, but nyaa only has an english TL. preeeesu, it looks so cool.
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>>563537608
>And who acknowledges the logic that results into the conclusion? Who peer reviews it and says "this is correct"?
Anyone who reads and verifies the proof. This is something in theory any mathematician can do. Again, it's possible for a proof to have a subtle error in it that is overlooked, but that just means the proof is flawed, not that theorems don't exist. It's possible to validate a proof and be 100% sure in its veracity. A computer can validate proofs if you define axioms well enough. But most people can trust their own brains.
>You and others cite the possibility that something else can come up which contradicts a scientific law. In that case humans adjust their understanding and try to adapt
This is the key. Scientific laws adapt. Mathematical laws do not. There are no solutions to certain quadratics (you say cubics, but all cubics have at least one real solution) under these axioms/assumptions. But introduce this new assumption, and in this new system, they do have solutions. No laws were rewritten or contradicted.
Fun fact, there are plenty of existing frameworks that people came up with to answer the question "what if division by 0 is possible"? See: the projective real number line. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projectively_extended_real_line
But the existence of this concept, and the work people build off of it, doesn't invalidate existing theorems and truths of integers/reals/complex numbers. It just means, if we consider a mathematical system where division by zero is possible, we get a new set of theorems. See again the x^2 = -1 example. True in one system, false in another, no contradictions.
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>>563537605
>he knows that if sern finds out he didn't reported they'll -ACK! his daughter
It doesn't make sense for him to work for SERN at all in any timeline after Suzuha went back in time and took care of his younger self.
She becomes a maternal figure for him but doesn't end up influencing his life for the better at all? That's illogical.
>non canon, don't care
It's canon to me.
>??
The Alpha worldline is based on the premise that SERN built the first time machine and used it to create a dystopia, but that is only possible because they caught Okabe's D-Mail in their system and raided his laboratory.
This D-Mail, which altered the course of history, caused the worldine to shift from Beta to Alpha into a universe where Kurisu doesn't die - but she only survives in the first place because Suzuha's time machine from the future crashes into the Budokan and cancels Dr Nakabachi's presentation on time travel.
Ergo in the original Alpha worldline, the one where SERN first builds their time machine, Kurisu would've still died because Suzuha had yet to be born and return to the past. Without Kurisu, however, the time machine wouldn't have been completed in the first place.
It's a paradox because:
The fact that Kurisu survives and creates the time machine causes the outcome where Suzuha returns to the past in a time machine and indirectly saves Kurisu's life by cancelling the conference.
All of this happens off-screen and is a foregone conclusion by the time Okabe travels to the Beta worldline for the first time, even though his Reading Steiner should've let him experience the original, unfalsified timeline.
Not sure if this makes sense to you.
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>>563538443
Then what is to say your X^2 = -1 example couldn't be applied to scientific laws then? In the current existing system: Earth, newtonian fluid, human observers, regular matter, archimedes principle is proven as you could repeat this phenomenon infinite amount of times and observe the same result. If for some reason there was some weird exception that occurred, it wouldn't invalidate the fact that objects will float in newtonian fluids of higher density than the given object outside of reality being rewritten.
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>>563539403
>The Alpha worldline
they make the time machine without kurisu. have you played s;g0?
>It doesn't make sense for him to work for SERN at all in any timeline after Suzuha went back in time and took care of his younger self.
i don't remember the details but sern exists regardedless and we don't know how he become employed, maybe he had no choice, suzuha or not
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>>563539987
>it wouldn't invalidate the fact that objects will float in newtonian fluids of higher density than the given object
As soon as science starts talking about ideals and things that don't exist, spherical cows, ideal gases, Newtonian fluids, science is doing math. "In a Newtonian fluid, things float". "In a vacuum, light has this speed." These are abstractions that no longer pertain to real observations. It's not science at that point, because you're not looking at experimental outcomes anymore, you're assuming things and building off of them. At that point, it's math.
Although, actually, to be very precise, there is such a thing as a theoretical vacuum, or an ideal gas, and even then, the "laws" you take for granted can be falsified. Again, my go-to example is to imagine a world where gravity isn't Gmm/r^2, it's actually Gmm/r^(2 + e) where e is some extremely small number we could never measure. There's no experiment we could perform that could let us know that that alternate theory of gravity is false. Therefore, Gmm/r^2 isn't a certainty. It's a law we assume.
At the end of the day: all science can be falsified. That is the definition of science. The entire act and foundation of science is experimentation and trying to falsify hypotheses. If it can't be falsified, it isn't science.
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>>563540586
but the time machine with suzuha isn't sent by sern in any of the worldlines, makise doesn't work for sern, they just use her research to build one
>>563540707
it was written by the dude who wrote mojika, kek
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>>563540967
Two minutes after writing this. Lol. Directly lifted from F/SN.
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>>563539095
>>563540967
>>563542057
Holy shit!
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>>563540967
>muramasa is saber
They have entirely different goals and personalities?
>Ichijou is rin
Wouldn't she be closer to shirou?
>kanae is sakura
Never seen a more wrong statement
As far as ichijou goes, the justicefag trope isn't a unique concept invented by fsn
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>>563542639
I was talking more about archetypes.
Saber/Muramasa being basically the "I am your blade" loyal servant warrior type, which creates a kind of deep master/servant bond, then revealed to have a tragic/human past.
Ichijou/Rin: tsundere, strong-willed, competitive heroine who eventually clashes with the protagonist over contrasting worldviews.
Kanae/Sakura: Basically two-faced, on the surface somewhat simple and openly swooning over the protagonist, but having a darker, cold, violent side and hidden complexities etc.
It's kind of similar in terms of character dynamics.
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>>563547828
>sex with others lost
Maybe on planet retard
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>>563547828
>>563548375
looney troonies, go back to discord
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