Thread #255181
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Jiu-Jitsu General: Coincidence? I think not edition
>Daily deals https://www.bjjhq.com
>Instructionals https://www.bilibili.com
>Smoothcomp https://smoothcomp.com (not sure why we post this)
>Belt Checker https://www.beltchecker.com (back online)
>Thread topic
In light of the mass rape and child SA scandals happening every other week at the very top of the sport the only way forward is to drop the whole "Brazilian" thing
BJJ is too tainted to continue
Previous: >>243740
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>>255303
I don't think once a week would be enough (unless you're maybe just maintaining some already built-up experience), but twice a week sounds doable to me. I train gi 3x week, no-gi 2x week, and kickboxing 2x week. I'm improving at kickboxing more slowly but the improvement is definitely there.
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>>255305
I started off training once a week and could learn concepts like escaping mount, retaining guard and doing simple submissions. You will want to learn faster though so you'll probably end up going more.
If you do anything once a week you'll learn more than if you never did it
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>>255331
It's a franchise so it can't be good, very high probability theyre going to hit you with a long term contract that has a hugh cancelation fee, and they'll make you buy all their apparel because you're only allowed to wear their branded stuff there
If you decide you don't like jiujitsu you're gonna have like $500 of gracie barra branded shit you were forced to buy and nobody will want
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>>255399
Well if I were to direct it I would do a set of spectacular takedown attempts that are foiled until it ends in a body lock takedown, then quickly going through the positions such as passing guard, side control, kesa getame for example and then finishing with a couple of subs being escaped maybe even a sweep that ends in a final sub.
It can be interesting just has to be fast paced no stalling
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>>255400
There was a Korean girl doing butterfly guard to me and nestled my bulge right between her feet, and then later was on my back and did it with the hooks
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1st ibjjf competiton this week end, lost gi and nogi 1st round. I'm complete trash. I feel like i don't belong in this sports, i'm 1 year and a half in, on steroids and lost vs people with 6 to 9 months of time in.
Couldn't do shit, was on defense all the time i can't attack for shit and my defense is swiss cheese given how much holes it has in it.
Even in sparring, i never win against anyone who isn't a brand new white belt. Smaller than me with who joined at the same time ? Get tapped or just survive for 5 minutes but can't put them in any sort of danger. Bigger than me ? Can't survive 5 minutes, i will get tapped at least one or two times.
I feel like trash and feel like i'm a complete waste of time and energy and should quit. Legit angry and sad about myself.
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>>255417
You focus too much on taps. Set better milestones.
Also at this level BJJ is complete chaos anyway. It takes a while to actually get a proper game plan. A few months more experience means little.
Honestly pick better milestones outside of you tapping or getting tapped. Learn simple concepts like why underhooks are important or why to never extend your elbows in a bad position.
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I have been trying out Octopus Guard for the past few weeks and it is genuinely the most fun bottom position there is.
Really feels like a "crossroads" position where I have many opportunities to get into and various paths to go from. Getting into the position isn't too hard and the basic defense is pretty solid. My biggest issue right now is sweeping and attacking from it but so far it really added a lot to my rolls.
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>>255474
I heard it varies whether they teach standup at all, but the places I go to have taught me stuff like
Single legs, double legs, seio nage, hip toss, collar drag, uchi Mata, outside trip, body lock dump
Now the issue is you will probably be drilling these with minimum resistance. It's up to you to ask your partners if they want to start standing in sparring so you can try these things out and see what works and what just gets you guillotined. Another issue I find is even if you get a single leg sometimes the other person just flops to the floor and pulls guard.
I find no gi you are more likely to learn more wrestling and standup and do light standup sparring as mandatory
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do you guys remember that story i think it was in the 50's where some gracies or jiu jitsu guys trapped a luta livre master and broke his arm with an iron bar? i remember reading something like this i swear i'm not crazy, i researched it everywhere but couldn't find anything, feels like i'm getting gaslighted
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>>255524
Sweeping is a concept not a technique
A sweep is achieved when you cause someone's upper body to tip beyond the center of gravity on their lower body
If someone is upright with their hips under their head they can't be swept, you need to disrupt that so their head is over the floor and not their hips
Secondary concept, they will then post with a limb to stop from toppling over, so secure the limbs on the side of the body you intend to tip them to so they can't block it
I know this is an obvious simplification but if you think of a sweep in terms of meeting these 2 conditions and not a set of techniques you'll have success
>>255474
You'll superficially learn all the basic ones but not learn how to actually do them because bjj class you'll just rep the finish with a compliant partner the whole time and spend 0% of your time practicing the setup under live pressure which is where the skills actually materialize
BJJ stand up typically is Kung fu tier as far as realism goes
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>>255331
The individual franchise might be good, but GB is known for sketchy business practices - long term contracts, forcing you to buy their merch to train, etc - and that's not something the coach can do much about, because it's coming from the corporate hq
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>>255387
Hard one, mostly because I suck and hardly ever get a submission period. I love front headlocks in concept, but hardly ever hit them. Kimura is cool, so are ankle locks. The one I can get semi-consistently is the ol' reliable ezekiel
Only against the Indian subcontinent
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>>255553
This is basically the best general advice on sweeps.
I had a lot of moments during sparring where I ended up sweeping opponents and didn't actually know how I did it step by step. You get a feeling for it when your opponent is off balance but there are also concepts to help you.
When in Closed Guard, getting the opponent's elbow across the center line, opens up a lot of attacks like sweeps or potential back takes. Sweeps are great to combo into other types of attacks. I often go for a Hip Bump Sweep and immediately follow it up with trying to get a Kimura if the opponent blocks the sweep. This also works in reverse when the opponent postures up after a Kimura attempt and you get a Hip Bump Sweep.
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Why are so many beginners insecure about being beginners? I am not judging them but like what do they expect when tapping to someone who has been training for 7 years and has a 20kg advantage?
It's not the end of the world. Just show up and you will get better.
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>>255749
They arent good people. Do your research bjj isnt an original martial art.
The gracies also have a long criminal tracj record
many people dont like them for a variety of reasons a big one being that they think the track record the gracies have encourages poor behavior in the martial art
the gracies also have a massive history if talking insane amounts of trash and then never being able to back it up(see sakuraba vs the main gracie family members, he broke their arms and brutally beat them.)
the gracies also do not take losing evry well at the early days of the art when they lost they cornered the wrestler in an alley and broke his arm and legs
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>>255792
what they also do is take other peoples students and promote them to black so they can have more black belts on their record. or they'll hire black belts from other schools and claim them as their own to again have more black belts beneath them.
the gracies are notorious for this.
massive chance that at a gracie school if you're instrutcor says "im a blakc belt under X gracie" they're lying and got it from some no name but were hired by a gracie to run that school. why? because it sounds good.
Not many people are gonna trust the guy who has 1 or 2 black belts underhim but the guy with hundreds even low double digits, absolutely
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>>255793
and the only deal for accepting this?
you get to use the name gracie for your school and say you're a black belt under renzo or someshit. You still have to pay THEM for using the name on top of the facility you're renting
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>>255749
They had the right idea with JJ, but the family as a whole is... not good.
Both in the sense that they're not great people and in the sense that they're bad for the sport - contrast the IJF and IBJJF and how they run their stuff.
(I genuinely hope IJF would embrace BJJ and nogi rulesets as separate disciplines of the same sport, which it effectively is, so that we would have a competent governing body, and because it would really shit in a few people's cereal)
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So I've been training for a couple of months and always try to warm up with drilling single leg from a standing position
It always feels so slow. It takes me like 2 seconds to level change, drop down, slide my foot across and then stand back up. Also when I try this around the house it fucking hurts even on carpet
Are single legs that slow, am I doing something wrong? Obviously I can never pull this off in sparring. Unless I grab their leg from the clinch
Or is shooting for singles just something you can't learn as an adult.
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>>255845
They're full of beans and just trying to copy what they see people do in wrestling
Well wackity schmackity doo if I copy what they do then I'll be good too!
Except they are doing a totally different sport
In wrestling the stance is much lower with the legs further back so you need a more explosive penetration to get access to them, We are much more upright
They lose points for stepping out of bounds so they can't just run backwards infinitely like we can in jiujitsu
They are awarded for amplitude of their takedowns so they need to generate a big lift, we aren't and we don't. Clumsily tripping or dragging someone to the ground with no impact at all scores the same as the biggest throw you could muster
And finally they wear shoes and we don't so they are capable of generating a huge amount more explosive drive much faster than we can
Your take down's in jiujitsu should be based off of arm drags, Body locks, Trips, and snatches
We aren't wrestling so stop wrestling
If you must model yourself after wrestlers look at Greco not folkstyle
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>>255417
stop competing for a while until you formulate a game plan and have an answer from every position that is muscle memory
then sign up for a local tournament like a fuji or grapple industries
IBJJF tends to attract the more serious competitors so no surprises that you would lose desu I went to a local tournament and got an ex professional athlete, you just get bad luck in this shit and competing is kind of ass anyway
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>>255803
Is it fucking time for Daddy Wiltse to make a new video?
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>>255181
>ex gf dating 6'3 balding mongoloid
I like Muay Thai better but tf is my little shit gonna do if that nigga blitzes me? is training at world renowned bjj gym 10m from me my best bet? they have kickboxing to but I just wonder how you guys manage strikes or distance in an actual scuffle
for context i'm 5'7 155 but like im ballooned up from 130, super small frame and just been weightlifting for last two years. I want hit 175-185 weight wise but it's gonna be a mission without roids atp i'm already extremely muscular
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>>255181
put the b back in the bjj before I blow this whole shit up
these niggas were and still are the only ones that make this sport cool, all the hard ball brazilians are what made this shit cool. if any of you niggas got into this shit from mikey or gordon, leave. All the juice heads are based - Rocha especially.
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>>256034
>I like Muay Thai better but tf is my little shit gonna do if that nigga blitzes me?
simply heem him
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My experiences with BJJ (Gracie), during my first month, coming from a JKS karate purple belt (8 years of training):
Despite not knowing how to pass guards, I know some finishes, like classic armlocks, the Americana, and the rear choke—really basic stuff. I say this from my experience, but from what I saw, there is hardly any consistent drilling. Most of what you learn is simply rolling, in a “free-for-all” way.
You learn some standard techniques, then you do some 5-minute rolls (which, if you are a white belt, are completely useless—and I’ll explain why). One day you’re learning how to pass the guard, the next day you’re learning a sacrifice takedown, then you have leg techniques. In my experience, there are too many unrelated techniques. For a white belt, it would be better to learn the real, true, raw basics.
Here comes the comparison: like how I learned in karate. Of course, I say this based on what I find the most pleasant and easiest way to learn, but you get the point. You start in position A, which opens a range of possibilities that can evolve into different locks and other positions, both for the attacker and the defender. In this drilling motion, a flow state makes it easier to associate the movements with muscle memory. With fast-paced, repetitive movements, it becomes easier and more intuitive to learn.
In karate, it was drilling, drilling, and more drilling—hardly any fighting. And now I know why most white belt fights are completely awful. And I mean it—absolutely horrendous. There is no technique whatsoever; only brute force counts when you’re a white belt.
Well, now I know why so many people are attracted to BJJ. In most of my rolls, the opponents relied on their weight advantage to get tight top pressure, which they would hold for two very impressive minutes. That amounted to absolutely nothing of value being learned.
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>>256169
That’s why I prefer not to roll with white belts. I leave that for purple belts and above; they are very eager to teach, and I enjoy their patience. I much prefer drilling if I train with white belts.
Apart from this, one thing that makes me uncomfortable is the risk of injuries. A guy started training a few days after I joined, and two weeks in, he broke his foot. What the fuck? How does someone break his foot while training as a white belt? That’s what I’m saying. I don’t know what these guys have in their minds (well, I do—it’s shit) to go so hard while training. You’re not going to a world championship. We’re training for fun, for leisure. Stop going full mayhem on everybody.
This is another thing I encountered: the amount of outright violent and truculent guys who do BJJ is abysmal. Not even counting the insecure and passive-aggressive ones. Jeez.
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>>256171
One thing that impressed me was how my teacher was an absolute douche when teaching some stuff. He made some gay jokes when we were training grappling while standing, which at the time made me feel SO MUCH SHAME. WHAT THE FUCK. THIS IS A JIU-JITSU ACADEMY. It was the last place I expected to hear a joke about “guys hugging themselves.” You know what I mean? Like, what the fuck.
Then he came with some passive-aggressive stuff. First, it started with him being a little too harsh when showing some chokes. My training partner got one drill wrong, and he took it out on me. Fuck my life. I brushed it off.
Later, he did the gay joke. Then, another day, he did something even more aggressive and, in my perspective, an outright threat. He was showing how to do a triangle when the opponent is standing and you are on the ground, and he said, “He’s gonna try to stand to leave the triangle. He won’t be able to. He’s going to punch the ribs. He’s choking. Then he’s out,” all while looking straight into my motherfucking eyes.
L M F A O? What the fuck?
Anyway, I don’t know what to say to continue. I was so baffled at the moment that I just… what the fuck. I kind of dissociated a bit. Like… what? Is this really happening? Did the teacher just threaten me? What the fuck.
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>>256172
Well, the “cultish” behavior of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu I didn’t really see, but I understand why there are so many violent and authoritarian guys in Jiu-Jitsu. It’s the nature of the martial art. It is warfare based on complete domination and submission of the enemy. There is no mercy, no pity. I see guys actually enjoy dominating others just for the sake of humiliating them.
I think one the things that makes them not understand me is how i don't commit to most of my fights, how i'm calm and nonchalant to the situation i'm in, when i get choked or in a lock, i simply tap and have a complete indifferent look in my face, maybe most expect frustration but i just don't give a fuck...
This is becoming my diary, but one thing that I noticed was how I made some guys insecure. I started noticing this when many guys became passive-aggressive, even though I outright don’t do or say fuck all to them. It annoys me a lot. I wish I could find it funny, but it’s more of an annoyance than anything. Anyways, that's it.
Thoughts?
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>>256169
>For a white belt, it would be better to learn the real, true, raw basics.
I've been training for a few months now and still mainly lost and most of what I'm learning is a waste of time because the fundamentals aren't really taught, not even in fundamentals class
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>>256169
>One day you’re learning how to pass the guard, the next day you’re learning a sacrifice takedown, then you have leg techniques
Sign of a poor gym and a lazy coach. Good gyms usually follow some sort of curriculum - even if there isn't some sort of long term plan, there should be at least "blocks" a few weeks long with specific focus. At my gym, for example, we just started such block focused solely on body lock passing and I expect it will last at least another month as all the positions and variations are explored. Before that it was octopus guard, before that it was back control and escapes, before that mount and escapes, before that side control. Not exactly a super coherent curriculum, but within each block, we spent enough time to actually understand the position, its variations and its nuances
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>>256169
>>256171
>>256172
>>256173
no offense but you sound sort of gay and retarded. also
>A guy started training a few days after I joined, and two weeks in, he broke his foot
very well couldve been his fault. i had a trial class guy explode his own knee drilling an open guard pass after i told him three times socks on the mat were a bad idea. white belts being the most dangerous people on the mats and theyre not limited to hurting others
>>256185
>weeks of octopus guard
lol
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>>256215
>>weeks of octopus guard
I don't know how long it was, since I couldn't train for like two months, but I'd guess it was maybe three weeks, twice a week for that particular class, probably by popular demand if I had to guess
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What is a good way to enter octopus guard when your opponent has you in side control?
I got it to work a few times but this was more because the opponent's outside arm was already in a position for me to switch there. Which escape attempt is the best setup so I can follow up with octopus guard?
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>>255553
>You'll superficially learn all the basic ones but not learn how to actually do them because bjj class you'll just rep the finish with a compliant partner the whole time and spend 0% of your time practicing the setup under live pressure which is where the skills actually materialize
BJJ stand up typically is Kung fu tier as far as realism goes
Judo and Wrestling surely are better martial arts than BJJ in terms of takedowns, however that doesn't mean that BJJ won't teach you good takedowns at all. Normally rolls start sitting down, however, some gyms when there is a competition coming will make the rolls start standing up and teach you the best setups for takedowns. What you are saying really depends a lot on the gym.
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Can you shove your elbow into someones eyeball to force a reaction?
A higher belt let me high mount him and then just tucked his chin in and did a protected his neck with his hands and I didn't know how to sub him from there
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>>256271
It's a bit of a dick move, but dragging your forearm against their face isn't necessarily illegal. But if you do it in training, only do it sparingly and not very hard, being an asshole to your training partners isn't very productive. And actually aiming for their eyeball is a very good way to get your ass beat
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>>256271
Mother's milk.
There is always shit you can do. Alternatively you can just put your hand on his mouth which is a bit of a dick move but perfectly fine. Though there is always a way to target the elbows in top mount. Worse case you just go back to side control. You can catch a d'arce here if he tries to recover. If he remains static just go north south.
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jitsheads, explain yourselves. what the hell is this?
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>>256271
This is why everyone hates white belts
Because people will allow themselves to be put into bad positions so they can practice things they're not so good at and the white belt thinks "hmm..should I cause this guy physical pain now??"
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>>256283
Well that's why I'm asking. I don't know how the game is played. Im sitting there in high mount and he's winded his neck in and crossing his arms so I can't do anything. A black belt told me you can cause pain to force a reaction if someone is being defensive.
I can get bicep sliced or rib crushed or knee on bellied to force a reaction, but I can't crush his face/neck? Doesn't make sense. But I thought I'd ask because I don't know the etiquette of things. One minute I have someone twisting my fingers off to get out of a guillotine, the next minute I have someone telling me to "watch out for the fingers" when I try to do the same.
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>>256297
>A black belt told me you can cause pain to force a reaction if someone is being defensive.
This implies pressure to the neck mostly like framing against the neck when you are in someone's side control or doing a cross face/paper cutter when you have someone in side control for example.
You are absolutely allowed to pressure various points but some are discouraged or outright illegal. The reason for this is just the increased risk of injury and how sensitive these areas are.
Anything regarding eyes is pretty much banned.
When it comes to fingers you are allowed to hold onto them if you grab all or all excluding the thumb.
Pulling on someone's inside cheek (fish hooking) with your fingers is also banned.
You can crush someone's neck as long as you don't do movements that fuck with the spine. These are mostly still legal but considered dick moves. If you pull a can opener, be at least slow when doing it.
Wrist locks are often banned for beginners because of how quickly you can injure a wrist.
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>>256297
So here's some advice on the situation, don't do things that just kind of hurt and that's all
And it was bad advice from the black belt if he uses pressure points and digging boney parts in to create openings
Because you're not actually developing mechanical skills
Using pain compliance only works when someone cares to let it work, And a lot of people are stubborn and gritty and will just eat that, And now you've charged up their rage meter so you better hope you keep the upper hand because they'll be coming after you
People in the gym will be way more pliable to stuff like that because they aren't coming to class to get hurt for no reason this is just a hobby, And then you'll go to a competition and try doing all that grimy stuff and the people won't even react to it because now it's competition mode, I came here understanding that I might get a little roughed up so I don't care
Basically in not so many words the advice that guy gave you is if you're having trouble finishing the choke just start cranking his neck
Well that isn't really going to help you get better at doing the choke though if every time you're struggling with it you just stop trying and see if you can get him to tap by hurting him
This exact reason is why pretty much nobody is able to effectively do head an arm chokes because that position is really finicky and it's easy to just start neck cranking the person and make them tap from the pain
But the goal of a choke is to make someone unconscious not too make them go home with an ice pack on their neck
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>>256297
>>256320
im gonna piggyback on the last part of this and say if you think you have something locked in and someones not tapping, just let it go and look for something else. if you were actually in a position to finish it they're not gonna escape the second you let go. you can ask them after the roll what specifically you were missing. if there was a gap on one side, if you really were just cranking and they didnt care, whatever. i cant tell you how many times a week i seem to have a white belt try to guillotine me from the bottom of mount. i can eat that all day. theres no point in wasting a minute or two on a failed sub or gassing yourself out because you tried to win when it wasnt a competition
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>>255303
Ignore people complaining about GB, look for a current or former competitive record for people from gym regulars and your coaches.
It is the biggest predictor whether you're getting something real or they're blowing smoke up your ass.
>>255345
>>255348
>poor retention
Doesn't matter usually, most gyms have a core cadre of "the actual people regularly training", and "the weekly churn of first time randos who quickly cycle out". Watch for the quality of the cadre and coach, other shit's irrelevant.
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>>256563
The closest bjj gym to me has no showers and train on puzzle mats. It's like 10 minutes away
I currently travel for an hour to use one where I can shower and which uses proper mats. Don't know if the tradeoff is worth it
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>>256732
>legs and knees entangled and being twisted in unpredictable directions
> people cranking on your neck and spine to cause permanent damage before you can tap
>The sport where people drip sweat into your mouth and train with skin infections
>As dangerous as any other sport
What mental illness do you suffer from?
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did a comp recently, went well
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>>256785
>sweat icky
you sound like you either didnt tap because you thought it was "more of a crank" and you try to win training or you rolled the wrong way out of an entanglement and blew your shit up before someone that knew what they were doing had a chance to let go
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Guys, i have hard times to get my hands through openings, like between arms, armpit etc.
I feel it's often very difficult for me to get through to have access to submission.
Likewise, i have huge troubles finishing rear naked chokes because either i get my arms sent away and/or my arm can't get under the chin and i have just the rnc on the face but my oponents never tap.
I'm ofc a stupid white belt, you guessed it, and autistic so i know my coordination isn't the best. But i feel frustrated because i can almost only get tap by doing ankle locks and nothing else.
Am i the only one that is retarded like that ? Is it normal ? i'm a year and a half in, feeling like a brand new guy yet i know what i'm supposed to do, i understand where i have to go and the course of action to get to the win but physically i fucking can't.
I'm 5"11 196lbs with good amount of muscles (around 18% bodyfat) (180cm 89kg in non american unit)
Please, i need feedbacks and ideas on what to do about it. Many thanks.
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>>256804
Unless you are insanely fast or up against noobs, one move threats rarely do anything.
Every attack will get a response from the opponent and the idea is to expand on the reaction. If you slowly go for a single move and try to muscle your way through it will lead to many stalemates.
Attack the nect to get a reaction which means the oppoent moves his arms or shifts his body. Even if you do this for a few moves and can't seem to progress, you may realize that suddenly you can go to top mount because the opponent's attention is at his upper body. Either way, don't force submissions because with same skill level, the advantage lies with the defender looking at one move threats.
I often get side control and have opponents locking up their arms to the point I can not go for any shoulder lock so I just pull a paper cutter or north south.
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>>256830
it happens mostly when i defend, i get a sweep and get the ankle lock. I try not to be lazy and if i'm the one attacking a lot i try to pass the guard and not just go for it. But sometimes it happens because it's fun. I'd say tho, i'm OK-ish at finding my way toward an ankle lock wherever i am even from shitty position as long as the person i'm rolling with doesn't have that much better skills than me but that sounds quite normal
>>256858 >>256805
well noted, very clear thanks !
>>256874
it's not hard when it happens to me desu i get sub a lot and i can't sub anywhere close as much as people are subbing me. Even with beginners i don't bully them as much as i was getting bullied, at equal time on the mat.
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>>257005
No she doesn't train but I got her to pin me in mount and side control. I was trying to teach her some basics. And before I know it, I'm actually doing knee elbow escapes and getting underhooks to escape, showing her triangles etc. escaping high mount. It got me thinking, just how much can I learn this way?
She was also quite good at working stuff out herself like the idea of breaking posture etc
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