The biggest problem is that I feel stuck. I think I want to leave, but I can’t seem to actually do it.

What’s holding me back:
>guilt — like I owe her something
>fear of her reaction (she doesn’t really accept the idea of a breakup)
>fear of how I’ll cope afterward
>feeling responsible for parts of her daily life
>feeling like I need to do the breakup “perfectly” and not hurt her too much

I’ve also realized that I’ve been hoping I could explain things in a way that would make her understand and accept it, but I’m starting to think that’s not realistic.

I feel very alone in how I see this situation. To me, things feel far beyond repair. Mentally, I feel like I’ve been “done” for months already. I don’t want to live a life where I’m constantly pulled into these kinds of conflicts.

When things have gotten bad in the past and I’ve tried to break up, she has reacted very strongly — crying, begging, and pressuring me to stay — and I end up backing down.

Has anyone been in a similar situation?
How did you actually go through with leaving?
And how did you deal with the guilt and fear?

>>34422402
>My partner strongly believes that “love is a choice”
If that's true, she surely isn't choosing to love you, specially when she throws everything at your face, blames you in everything, and go on these long rants wasting your time. She seems like a boss girl. Why would you want to be with a person like this? I don't blame you. I do believe love is a choice, but you cannot change the other person, if she is burning you out, it's better to cut off the losses. What kind of advice are you looking for, cause just saying "how to get out?" is a useless question. You very well know how to get out.

AI — slop — of the — worst — quality

>>34422428
I admit this partially. Ai has helped me in writing this. The problem isn't something that i could put to word by myself alone anymore. I'm way too burned up to sit down and do that. These things keep happening, and they stress me out, and i'm anxious about the next inevitable time it will happen. Constantly like walking on a minefield. My body has also worked abnormally for two years now. I get no wet dreams anymore. Semen builds up and mostly comes out when i take a shit.

I think about this and how insane this all is and try think of a solution. Try to think what i should say to her. How to do this fairly. And then it gets so overwhelming that i finally just stop thinking about it and just try to survive a week at a time.

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Just... go?

>>34422422
She clearly is often in a mentally altered state, and i also do feel responsible. I don't want to be with her but i don't want to hurt her anymore than is "necessary". I fear how she will take it. This is my first (and probably last relationship), we are both in our late 30s. I don't know how to go through with this and not backpedal. Maybe i should take her stuff to her apartment when she is away, but that would also seem radical.

>>34422460
I can't "just go". Every attempt always turns into hours of emotional pressure and I end up backing down in the end, always. I know it sounds simple from the outside, but it doesn’t feel simple when you’re inside it. And i can't just breakup with a message or a letter either cause that would feel like rotten thing to do after all this time.

>>34422463
>we are both in our late 30s
This is going to hurt, a lot. Delaying it will only make things worst, cause you clearly don't want to have a relationship with her, neither kids, and her fertility is almost over now. She will blame you, get angry, and maybe even try to mess with your life, any women that gets to this age childless has mental illness, it goes against their biology. By this age, my grandma had already birthed 7 or 8 children. It's not the same for a guy to be childless by their 30s, men can still have children past 90 years of age, women can't. She has just a few years to start trying, and even if she found a suitable partner right after you break up with her, there's still a process, like dating, marrying, when she finishes all of that, she probably won't be able to conceive, and even if she met a guy right now wanting to have unprotected sex with her, it would be a risk pregnancy. You fucked up by not breaking up with her before. Everyone in your social circle will turn on you, and I guess they aren't wrong in doing so. You were too much of a pussy to do it before, and you're still delaying it. If you didn't want to hurt her, you wouldn't have delayed, this will do much more damage than any words you can use to break up with her.

>>34422402
>In the past year, she has also started calling me a narcissist during arguments
Women will say this to any man who refuses to agree with her or comply with her demands. I have never met a good person who unironically uses the terms empath, narcissist, or gaslighting. Two of these things exist but the words are almost universally abused by the most self-absorbed, completely unaware ghouls on the planet.
Based on your description this woman externalizes all her problems. She does not look inward to evaluate her own behavior. She will continually find a way to foist her mistakes or shortcomings onto others. This mindset is completely in opposition to growth. I cannot say whether or not either of you are bad people. I can however say SHE will never change. The mechanism that allows her to is missing. If you want this to stop you must leave.

>>34422478
She has always vetoed it. I couldn't ever imagine doing something like that to someone. She has done it to me. At best things are well and at the end of the day i still feel like some sort of a dog on a leash. And she seems to be unable to take even i a miniscule amount of blame from why were are still here. Like i know i have fucked up. But it's not just me why we are here. And i often feel so alone in all of this, realizing whats going on but being unable to do anything helpfull. I've lost track on how many times i have said
>so why the fuck do you force this relationship to continue if i'm such a bad person?
Nothing comes out of it never. I've said that like 4 years now. Why does she want to keep me. Well, i know why, she says "i'm the love of her life and she doesn't want anyone else"

And i do often think what exactly should i do to pay something pack? Get a vasectomy and live the rest of my life alone? Is there a sum of money i can pay and be done with this? What should i do so i could at somepoint look back and think "well it was bad but at least i ended it in the most humane way i could". That i wouldn't just feel a heavy sense of guilt and regret until i finally end myself. That's what i also think, a lot. A lot of feelings of sadness, regret, guilt, that i life with every day.

>>34422504
>But it's not just me why we are here
I know, but you're the man. This relationship is all fucked up exactly because of that. She has all the masculine energy in this relationship, which inverted the positions. This would never going to work. The thing is, for those that are outside, they are not going to see as you see it. They are 100% going to blame you. Because as I said, you're the man, you are the one who controls the relationship, it's an unspoken rule. They are not going to believe you, like, you were not held at gun point to stay in this relationship... My advice: Break up with her, and record it for your own protection, and do it fast. If you live together, take all your shit from home before doing it, cause she is gonna get very, very aggressive, or cry, or make false accusations. Be prepared...

>>34422477
Then don't do anything?
Why even make a thread? You know the answer. Just leave her. She has no respect for you and she's mirroring argument tactics she sees on tiktok. The relationship is a humiliation ritual for you right now.
Go. The act of doing so is actually really easy. I get it'll be hard emotionally but as the relationship is now 3 things will happen:
1) you'll get broken down into a shell of your former self
2) you'll live an extremely chaotic life of nothing but drama, bitterness, and hatred
3) you'll murderer her
There's no repairing the relationship at this stage.

>>34422407
Trust me when I tell you that none of that will hurt as much as staying with someone who sucks the life out of you. I have friends in the same situation. I've watched the torment themselves for months, even years before they finally left. Their lives weren't easy after but the relief they felt was worth it. You're not going to live some kickass bachelor life after leaving but you will get the experience of being free from someone who, at this point, only serves to make your life harder with no respite.

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>There's no repairing the relationship at this stage.

>>34422402
get away from her, if you stay around a narcissist for too long you turn into one.

It's also really hard trying to figure out how to talk to her about this because even our understanding of the situation is radically different. It makes finding a solution together pretty much impossible.

From my perspective, the situation looks like this:
>we are two people caught in a very unhealthy dynamic that has developed over years
>both react strongly in this environment, and both of us contribute to the escalation of conflicts in different ways
>i see our arguments as something that involves two participants who are both struggling with stress, frustration, and emotional reactions that have grown more extreme over time
>i understand her reactions but i'm also dead tired of listening to them
>i distance myself emotionally when the conflict ramps up
>we should breakup

She sees the situation very differently. In her interpretation:
>the core problem is my personality, particularly what she believes to be narcissistic behavior on my part
>in her view the conflicts exist primarily because of my manipulation, my unwillingness to take responsibility, and my inability to recognize my own harmful behavior
>breaking up would essentially mean i'm betraying her and there will be dire consequences to that

Often when I try to talk about the situation as something that involves both of us, she experiences that as me denying responsibility. From her perspective, acknowledging that there are two sides to the dynamic feels like an attempt to shift blame away from myself. And this makes her angry, as does my emotional detachment that she feels is arrogance, coldness and narcissism. She is also frustrated that she still tries to make this work and i don't put the same amount of effort. I said that i cant do it anymore but she doesnt listen. During the past few months i have essentially stopped rebounding back to how i was as a boyfriend to her normally, after our conflicts. The best i can do right now is to pretend that i'm that person.

You sound really immature and she's probably somewhat in the right for browbeating you. Also she's right that love is a choice. Feelings come and go, what do you think happens when you get old.

You seem like your life has no purpose, you aren't interested in anything and you have no goals. At least if you get married you would create a family, but if you just break up with her you're not going to do anything with the extra time, all you're going to do is just find another girl to browbeat you.

On the other hand if you're just going to be in a relationship forever and never get married you should consider breaking up and becoming a monk.

>>34422402
>denying responsibility
>unwillingness to take responsibility
What is the thing you're meant to take responsibility for? What is she referring to? What makes it YOUR fault specifically?

>>34423775
She thinks i’m responsible for most of our problems.
The main things she points to are:
>lack of intimacy/sex
>my emotional withdrawal during conflicts
> not meeting her expectations as a partner
>my behavior during arguments

I don’t think those things are completely wrong. But we heavily disagree with why they are happening. I know I started withdrawing years ago instead of engaging, and that probably made things worse over time. I do take responsibility for my part.
But the issue is that responsibility feels very one-sided. When conflicts escalate into hours-long arguments, name-calling, or repeated accusations (like calling me a narcissist), those don’t really get acknowledged as part of the problem.

The dynamic ends up being:
>I’m expected to take responsibility and change
>but her behavior during conflicts isn’t really open for discussion

Most arguments turn into very long, one-sided monologues where she talks and I mostly listen. It doesn’t feel like a conversation where we’re trying to understand each other. It's more like being talked at until I eventually give in or apologize just to end it.
Over time that has just burned me out emotionally, which probably feeds into the withdrawal she criticizes. So it loops.
That’s why it feels stuck. It’s not that i think i think i have zero responsibility, it’s that i don’t feel like responsibility is shared in a balanced way.
At this point I don’t think taking more responsibility on my side is going to fix something that feels fundamentally one-sided. Or more like doing that will cost me mentally something that i don't want to be paying up. I feel like the only way this will work is for me to brainwash myself into seeing all this differently. Nobody should be demanded to do that.

>>34423458
I get where you’re coming from about love being a choice to some extent. I don’t disagree that long-term relationships require commitment and effort, not just feelings.

But (i think) there’s a difference between “working through difficulties” and staying in a situation that feels consistently harmful and draining. We were doing the first for years until i collapsed and now we are in the second state. And on top of that there have been stages of worsening in addition to that, on both sides. Clearly this is toxic. And i don't use that word lightly.

This isn’t about feelings simply “coming and going” over time. It’s about a deeply harmful dynamic where my attempts to disengage or calm things down are seen as more wrongdoing and then that escalates things further. As an example:

Sometimes things get so bad and stressful that i start to sweat and my heart rate goes up, i finally i just want to leave and go outside to calm down. Before that i have asked her to calm down many times. And then she physically prevents me from leaving the apartment in a situation where we both are clearly in a very bad state of mind. (Sometimes she has even tried to take my phone, keys or shoes away) Surely i don't have to say what that has sometimes lead to? So either i physically force my way out or be forced to stay in a deeply stressful situation. And if things go south, i am once again blamed for a situation where i actually tried to leave to calm down, and before that i had listened to her rant for hours.This doesn't happen often but it's clearly a thing, and there has been at least 20+ instances of it during the past few years.

That’s not something I think can be solved purely by deciding to “try harder.”

>>34423458

cont.

You’re also making some assumptions about me that aren’t really accurate. I’m not looking to jump into another relationship or “find another girl.” I'd much rather be alone and try to make peace with that then throw the die and see what happens in my next relationship.

All this has caused me to second guess my insanity and just what i actually even am. Let's play with the idea that i'm all the things she is constantly saying i am. Well in that case the correct thing to do would also just be alone and guard other humans from the cancer that i seem to be.

And i do have goals, and stuff that interests me, this situation is making those harder than i feel they should be. A lot of days i try to juggle
>mentally rebounding from something that just happened
>trying to figure this mess out
>dealing with all the negative thoughts and feelings processing all this is causing me
>being productive
>rest mentally by doing something i actually like

I manage that barely, and often think that life just shouldn't be this hard, constantly.

>>34422402
>My partner strongly believes that “love is a choice” and that you should always keep trying no matter what.

Your partner is correct. Too bad she doesn't listen to her own advice because if she did, she'd choose to consider your feelings and actually help you feel more at home with her.

>>34424332
>And then she physically prevents me from leaving the apartment in a situation where we both are clearly in a very bad state of mind. (Sometimes she has even tried to take my phone, keys or shoes away)

Ah so you're dating the narcissist then. She called you one because that's what real ones do, they "DARVO". (deny the attack, reverse victim with offender). It's a strategy so that if you deny it, they can deny it back. Keeps the waters nice and muddy and confusing. And I think she is fucked in the head because no sane person takes away keys or shoes to control someone else like an animal or a child like that.

>>34424377
I don't find much use in flinling accusations and fancy words (like she is doing) in our arguments, but i have read discussions on the internet. Some videos i have watched about examples of narcissistic rage fits sound just like how she sometimes talks to me. But i think that can be explained by her just being so tired from all of this. We struggled for years until things started to get that bad. It wasn't like that before.

Other words that have resonated with me are codepency, bpd and trauma bonding. I don't think she was like this before. I believe her when she says that it wasn't like this in her previous long relationship. I just feel it isn't narcissism. I think that the situation is just sick and we are both at our wits end. I'm also probably somewhat autistic so that's part of this also. I just shut down in conflicts, and try to reason with her. And that makes things worse. And i do also get how she might see my emotional distancing as narcissism. But i don't think a narcissist would struggle with this amount of guilt. I do feel a lot of guilt from all this.

>>34424399
A narcissist does these things by choice. A narcissist is not someone who distances or pursues due to emotions. A narcissist is someone who makes someone else do those things by use of manipulation.

For example, let's say you are doing something or want something I don't want you to do or want you to have. All that's needed is to throw a distraction to blind you. Like deliberately sabotaging something like money or security or inventing a problem out of thin air to then accuse you with it, which takes your focus off the thing I did not want you to have, and even makes you feel guilt if you tried to pursue it. That's how it's done, friend.

Anyway maybe she isn't a pathological NPD. But make no mistake, people can still be narcissistic, we all can, everyone is capable. All it takes is the right (or wrong) stressors. Narcissism is simply
"I don't care about how you feel, I want you to care how I feel."

That's narcissism. Everyone's felt it. Whether or not we act on it is a matter of discipline or maturity and it sounds like she isn't being mature at all.

Maybe she was better before, but clearly something knocked her down into a regression of immaturity. Any idea what that could be? Was there any big bad events inside or outside the relationship that occurred?

>>34424420
>Any idea what that could be?

Well, clearly one major factor has been the lack of physical closeness and sex. It has always been very important to her, and I understand that.

The problems started a few years into the relationship when I began studying for a new profession. During that time my mental health started declining due to stress and the fact that I had almost no time to myself. Our schedules didn’t align well, and after long days I was often completely exhausted, sometimes even falling asleep during dinner.

Around that time, our intimacy naturally decreased. It wasn’t a conscious choice from me, but it affected her deeply. Arguments about intimacy soon became more frequent and emotionally intense. Earlier on, those arguments could escalate badly. Over time, I changed how I reacted: instead of escalating, i started shutting down, withdrawing, and often just agreeing or taking the blame to calm things down. (At some point i finished school but things didn't go back to how they was.)

>>34424500
Yeah if it's autism then it's not a conscious thing to shut down emotionally or withdraw sexually. It's because autism means your emotions and your sensory perceptions are closely knit together. Means if you feel stress, you ain't gonna fuck. Because fucking is already an overwhelming thing for your body already and therefore your mind. So you will naturally wanna not do it. The more she pushes and stresses you out about it, the more worse it gets the less your body will feel stimulated or desire sex.
She is making the issue worse. But she probably doesn't know how this works if you've truly got autism.

From her PoV she is feeling insecure because she thinks you lost love or attraction for her, evidenced by your lack of wanting to fuck her. She may even be scared you've been cheating too. Because people suspect they're being cheated if their partner stops wanting to fuck them.

If you want the quick and easy solution to this, tonight when she crosses your path near the bedroom, just go and take a hold of her and start kissing the fuck out of her. Take her on the bed or over the bed, whether in top of her or behind, give her a good stabbing with your manhood and she will act like an angel after the deed.

Also. From those issues, soon followed another major problem: our living environment, which has gradually deteriorated over the years.

It started with her wanting us to put our trash in one of the two kitchen sinks. At the end of the day or two she made a trashbag and i took it out. Then the time between her making the trashbags got longer and longer. Sometimes she actually cleaned everything up but that has been years now, maybe 2 or 3.
Slowly it evolved into something much worse. Now there are multiple trash piles in the apartment, especially in the kitchen and bathroom. Papers and newspapers are scattered around. Both sinks (kitchen and bathroom have been unusable for months, and even basic maintenance (like fixing a broken bathroom light) feels impossible because the apartment is in such a state that we can’t realistically invite anyone in. I wash the dishes using a handwashingbowl and the shower facet. When i talk about cleaning it all up by myself, she gets angry. Says she must be the one to do it, and she might get a nervous breakdown if i did something to it.

I’ve adapted to functioning in this environment, but I feel a lot of shame and discomfort about it too. If I had a free choice, I would never live like this. At times, the apartment even feels psychologically oppressive.

She has at times reflected that this situation might be connected to a need for control in a relationship that felt uncertain to her, especially during the period when I was exhausted and emotionally withdrawn. I can understand that perspective, and I do feel deeply responsible. There is always talk of her cleaning the place when she has more time and energy, but work and our ongoing problems leave her drained. I understand that too, but this has been the pattern for a long time. And i'm tired of understanding this.

> Can we talk about this like adults?

> Can we agree on this?

https://www.choosingtherapy.com/fair-fighting-rules/

Decent place to make a first step I think

>>34424553
>Can we talk about this like adults?
Nah never say that in a heated discussion with a partner. The implication is you think you're the adult and you think they're not discussing like an adult, the message it reads as is "You are a child".

OP should unironically take the pent up frustration on her pussy. I am usually an intellectual, I usually don't like to be so crude and crass and tell other guys "bro go fuck her", this is the first time I've had to tell some other guy this:

But OP>>34424500
There is tension in your relationship, years worth. There's one of three ways to relieve this tension:
Break up, have a heartache and tears and pain
Keep arguing, keep fighting, keep building up resentment with no solution
Or
Fuck her, and fuck her hard. Take your woman by the hand, March her ass to the bedroom, or if you have the capability, scoop her up and carry her to the bedroom, and throw her on the bed and get on top of her like an animal and go to work on her, unleash all the tension down into her pussy. Remember if she says "stop" you stop. Kiss her as you begin, if she's kissing back wildly it means she wants it. Take her and have thunderous angry makeup sex. Let it all out that way

>>34424580
Seems to me you haven’t seen a pussy in a while since you’re so obsessed with it, am I right?

>>34424519
>>34424580

Why the hell would i want to have sex with a person who puts me through this?

My desire to do that needs at least that we are in some kind of good terms. Like today it's just been a barrage of words. When i left the apartment that changed to barrage of phone calls and messages.

If anything all this has made me almost asexual. Or more like i'm thinking surely there are better ways to live than stressing constantly about if my dick is working in a situation that is hostile to me. I often dream of living a simple life and just jacking off once a week, spending like a hour do that. You guys imagine that as someone who probably have a way more normal working sex drive. That would be me spending about 121 waking hours less around a thing that has just become a huge source of anxiety, stress and literal pain for me.

It's overrated. Nothing is worth the things i'm going through right now. And imagine if she got pregnant? Things can always be a little worse.

And doing something like having sex with her after all this just signals that all this has been okay. None of this is what i signed up for and when i make compromises with what kind of treatment i put up with, a small something falls of off me. And things have been falling off for years until i stopped to rebound like a half a year ago.

Yeah, it's clear to me that i should break up. If it was that easy i wouldn't be in this situation. And i wouldn't have to live with this almost constant slight pain. It's been with me for like 2 years now. Can you even process how bad things are if someone just stops having wet dreams cause of a mental bug? Libido is almost gone, most of the semen comes out when i take a shit. Imagine what my headstate could possibly be right now that i would much rather deal with that than to have sex with this person.

>>34424629
You don't have angry orgasms? You can't rechannel anger or frustration into horniness? Sex is a stress reliever, OP. It relieves stress and provides a MASSIVE payload of hormones for both partners. So yes, fucking will knock the shit out of the tension you have with her and her with you. There are emergency marriage crises therapies in parts of the world, where they lock the man and wife in a room with nothing but a bed, and they encourage them to argue and they leave them in there. And fast forward a few hours, the man and woman are fucking their brains out, and afterwards as if by magic the man and woman are holding hands, giggling like schoolchildren and suddenly the divorce has been called off.
Because it works. Get in there and go give her a right good plundering.

>>34424629
Also

Two things you need to confront:
>And doing something like having sex with her after all this just signals that all this has been okay
So you want to withhold affection to punish her?

>Imagine what my headstate could possibly be right now that i would much rather deal with that than to have sex with this person.

>This person
That person gave you almost a decade of her life. "This person". The fuck?

>>34424656
It’s not about punishing her. I just dont feel that kind of connection anymore.

Having sex when I feel "this disconnected" would be dishonest and just make things more confusing for both of us. And it feels like lying.

I didn't mean “this person” as disrespect, i'm just describing my current emotional distance.

The point is that I’ve been mentally out of this for a while, which is why I’m trying to figure out how to actually leave so the hurting can stop at somepoint. Like i'm just done with all this. This isn't healthy.

>>34424629
And get your hormones levels checked man, fuck sake. I am not a coomer or advocate for degenerate shit but if you're a man with testicles and all you can muster is, and I quote:

"I often dream of living a simple life and just jacking off once a week, spending like a hour do that."

It's called being hyposexual. Opposite of hypersexual. Both of them are sexual disorders. The key is balance and getting to a healthy middle ground. And I am not saying "hahaha low Test low test low test" or questioning your manhood. Truth is testosterone doesn't directly boost male sex drive. You're not less of a man for it but Jesus man, don't just sit on what is most likely a hormonal blockage, go to a doctor

>>34424670
>Having sex when I feel "this disconnected" would be dishonest and just make things more confusing for both of us. And it feels like lying.
It isn't lying, at all. Lies are linguistic, lies require words. Lying is not a physical action at all, sex is a physical action. You cannot lie in sex, penises and vaginas don't have brains and they don't talk.

And I know what you're getting at I know you are saying you don't want to behave an action that is contrary to how you mentally feel. But you also want resolution to the problems and I am giving you that resolution, I am telling you what can resolve conflict. And then your partner will become more receptive and give you what you want. Because maybe she also wants to give you what you want, but just like (you), she has these barriers stopping her and making her feel resentment as well, just like (you). There is a big barrier between you and all you need to do is punch through that barrier with one big fuck.

>>34424683
Is this how you resolve conflicts in your own relationship? Do you have any other conflict resolving related tips?

>>34424676
Testosterone has been slightly lower than it should probably be last time i had my bloodwork done. And i constantly sleep less than i should, about 5 hours a night. With how our daily routines are it's hard to sleep more.... And she thinks that 5 hours "should be enough" anyway. So then that's that.

The possible autism probably also raises the requirement for my minimum sleep needed for me to function properly...

>>34425086
Yeah and if it is autism that explains why you are extremely repelled by basic disputes in a relationship, because it's like taking sandpaper to your brain and shredding the shit out of it. No one likes disputes but for autists it's 1,000% more intense.

Look man between that and the hormonal low, maybe it's not such a good idea to personalize this all? Maybe it really could just be turned around with the right body care.

>>34425086
>>34425127
So here is the plan of action:
Go to a shrink, go get autism checked.
Go to a doctor go get your hormones back in order
Then get that woman in the bedroom and give her the business.
And if all goes well if things are clear skies, and you get all nice and giddy and feel well with her once this shit is cleared up, reach into a pocket and get that woman married to you. Nine years of partnership is x3 times longer than average waiting time for that ring. And believe me, it's not just your woman who gets resentful after having no ring after a 3 year wait, it's all women, every single one of them. The only women who claim the contrary are women who don't have a man.

Bump

I might write a bit more here in a couple of days to clarify some parts of the situation and the dynamics in this relationship.

This is already the most I’ve ever opened up about this, even anonymously, so id like to put a few more thoughts into words while I’m here. I'll keep this thread alive for a day or two until i get that out, and a few days after that.

Not really looking to debate everything point by point anymore, just trying to describe the situation as clearly as I can. Maybe something comes out of it, maybe not.

>>34428247
My friend, what are you doing? What are you doing? What is this debating and all this analysis? You are like me, so analytical and stuck in the independent details that you refuse to accept the reality of what it is as a whole. So confident you can either solve this or reach the clear, satisfying conclusion that you should break up, based on al the data and information.

More information and analysis won’t help you decide what to do. That won’t work, you can’t think yourself out of problems. You can gather all the details and their interpretations that you want but that’s not how decisions are made. I don’t want to be in the relationship anymore have to act. Action is what creates change.

But I know you think you can think yourself back into wanting to be in the relationship, but no, that’s not how it works my friend.

Listen to yourself bro “I don’t want to be in the relationship anymore.” You don’t want it anymore. The desire is no longer there. Could it return? Who knows. But look at what you are doing, running your brain on this shit, typing up essays of endless analysis.

I know it’s scary to say and fulfill through action the phrase “I’m breaking up with you.” It’s like a magic portal you step through without knowing what’s on the other side. But it’s the saving grace in front of you waiting for you to stop unnecessarily tormenting yourself and just step through.

I know this person is fused to your heart, but they are not for you.

“This difference feels impossible to resolve.” No, it doesn’t FEEL impossible to resolve, it IS impossible to resolve because that’s your experience of reality.

How To Get Out? You get out. You take the action. Say the magic words “I am breaking up with you.” that’ll shift everything. Having said that to her, that phrase is not up for debate. Simply inform her of your decision and leave. Go live your life again.

>>34428495
Nta but action can do one of two things. It can break a relationship or heal one. He's probably stuck on optics. He knows he would be seen as a piece of shit for taking up 9 years of someone's life, and that someone is still interested in him, still wanting to work through things, that someone by the way, a woman of all things, begging for sex and wanting to remain committed after 9 years and no engagement ring. Not saying she's a sacred flower for being a woman but in reality, there are so many men who would never believe a woman like that existed even if you showed them evidence. They would call you a liar. A woman 9 years loyal to someone who doesn't have sex with them when asked, and even sticks around with him engagement ring to show for it. You have any idea how rare a thing that is? It's almost unheard of.

So yeah OP dumps her and alot of people are going to be pissed. She'll be pissed, her family will, maybe his own family and a few friends. OP should brave himself for that. Not trynna talk him out of leaving but he is gonna have to bite the bullet and prepare for that storm when it happens if he wants out. It is unavoidable.

Some people will tell him not to take the "sunken cost fallacy" and to not feel in debt to 9 years of loyalty and to just break up. Which is true too. Except sunken cost fallacy when applied to humans is antihuman. Why? Because humans aren't time and we are not money. We're human beings, not livestock or objects to be weighed up against "sunken costs".

If the guy hasn't went down the couples counselling path yet, throwing away 9 years would be unwise. But it's his life. He's allowed to make unwise decisions so whatever he chooses, he needs to choose and stick to it.

>>34428509
I agree that he has to pick. He has to pick what to do and take action. Also I think it’s important to stay flexible. If he picks to stay and shit is still fucked up or keeps coming back, he needs to change strategies or leave. And if he decides to stay, he absolutely needs to set a time limit on how long he’ll keep trying.

But I’m not buying your moralization of sunken cost fallacy because “it’s a human being”. We can moralize anything that way. I could say by staying in the relationship he is torturing that woman and himself, trying to make things work with someone that he can’t make things work with. So he should break up as people are not things to experiment with. He wants to restrict her freedom and change her instead of leaving her be freely her (and she wants to change him).

Him being seen a certain way I understand too, you gotta weigh the cost of social ostracization with the benefit of not dealing with that one person anymore. And then also weigh how hard it was to get a woman to begin with, and how long and ho much work it might take to get another one. Seduction is a completely learnable skill, but I don’t know if OP sees the truth of that. If he doesn’t, then the cost may appear higher simply out of ignorance.

“You have any idea how rare a thing that is?” regardless of how rare it is, you are ignoring the ocean of diarrhea by the sunny beach.

As I was saying, we can debate and analyze and think and logic and calculate allllllll day, but in the end just LOOK at what’s happening and LOOK at what he’s doing. Look at it for what it is, not just the content he’s relaying to us.

Fucking heart rate issues and sweating from dealing with the person you are in a relationship with. Holy hell dude, listen to your body. Chronic stress will hurt you badly. But you won’t listen, you’ll think it away.

But I do agree with you that he has to pick and act. As long as he doesn’t pick, he’s keeping himself in the worst of the places.

>>34428608
All fair points but keep in mind: We only ever have one half of the story. If OP's GF made the thread and went into detail of her grievances, framed everything from her perspective that she is dating a man who doesn't seem to listen to her needs, has these issues where he blows up or shuts down every time she tries to get through to him verbally, and when she tries to reach out emotionally or sexually he goes cold and distant and refuses to even reconcile that way, hasn't showed any signs of change and hasn't shown any promise of engagement for almost a decade, maybe she too would report psychosomatic (body stress) as well.

We don't have both sides of the story and I don't think it's because OP is hiding it. It's because damn, 9 years is a long story to tell for one side alone, never mind two sides. Probably why OP struggles to analyze it all, he's trying to mentally process 9 years of experience all at once from both angles.

Which brings us back to the supposed autism he may or may not have apparently. That's also worth considering too. And chances are he may have it. Because the only people I've ever known in life who retreat to their mind palace to imagine every angle and process this shit, it's autists. Non-autists don't have to, what we do is we just listen to another person's verbal expressions of their grievances and we already know their thought processes. And we are able to then consider our own needs vs theirs and find the compromise, which means less arguing and arguing resolves quicker.

Autists don't have that luxury. They need time to process, time to cool off, time to shut down and recalibrate. Which, if OP's GF is completely in the dark about and she has no idea the type of cognitive obstacles he faces, she will assume bad faith because in her PoV she thinks he does these things to hurt her on purpose.
Maybe if OP stuck around and got diagnosed, and the two of them learned about it, she would finally reframe her approaches

>>34429041
>she will assume bad faith because in her PoV she thinks he does these things to hurt her on purpose.

And I will highlight this point for OP to really get his noggin joggin. I invite OP to ask her that question. "When I shut down, or when I storm off to go cool down, when I go mute and quiet, I need to know, honestly, genuinely, do you feel like I do these things to hurt you on purpose? Do you think this is silent treatment? That I am punishing you?"

OP will be shocked when her answer is going to be a resounding "Yes. What else could it be?"

And that right there is going to illuminate the entire barrier. That it was not her fault. And it was not even OP's fault. What this could just be is a neurological barrier, one that is so easily easily crossed once both partners learn each other's mode of thinking from a new perspective.

Bump

>>34428495
>But I know you think you can think yourself back into wanting to be in the relationship, but no, that’s not how it works my friend.

It’s not that I think I can analyze myself back into wanting the relationship again. It's not that.

What’s actually stopping me is how heavy this all feels. The guilt, the shame, and the fear of what happens if I leave. That’s been the real core blocker for years.

I keep trying to figure out what the “right” and humane way to leave would be, because I don’t want to do it in a way that I’ll regret for the rest of my life.

But at the same time, I’ve been stuck in this sort of mental framework for a long time. Something which her, me and our negative situations have hammered into my head for years.

Either the relationship situation is like this:
a) We are going through an extremely rough patch and it all gets fixed eventually

or

b) It was all a waste, and a huge mistake and I have ruined both of our lives and i have to live with that

And from this follows the interpretation of me as a person:

A) I'm someone who has issues but is at least trying to work through them, that's were are right now. And if i just work on myself enough it's gonna fix all this. I'm the love of her life and finally at some point we work this all out

or

B) I'm a sick person who gets off on abusing my partner, i have manipulated her and and used her and then i just discard him like the heartless piece of shit i am. Her pov goes to this every time i try to talk about breakin up.

>>34430445
cont.

And that’s the part that really keeps me stuck.

Because when I’ve tried to leave before, it always turns into intense pressure of guilt, fear, threats about telling others, and questioning what kind of person i am, until i always eventually back down from that decision. Basically, sometimes literally she says stuff like this:
>surely you are not this kind of person
>surely you are not doing this to me
>i'm so broken after you that i'm not gonna be able to find another man ever again
>i'm not gonna protect you anymore and keep this a secret, i'm going to tell everybody about how sick you are, if you go through with this.

So it’s not that I don’t know what to do. It’s that I don’t know how to go through with it without collapsing under that pressure.

>>34428509
>So yeah OP dumps her and alot of people are going to be pissed. She'll be pissed, her family will, maybe his own family and a few friends. OP should brave himself for that.

I am braving myself for that. That’s not actually even the hardest part for me, i wish it was. What scares me more is how she will react, especially towards herself. That’s been a real concern for a long time.

She has threatened different things over the years, and I genuinely don’t know what she might do if I leave. I can deal with people being angry at me, but the idea that she might hurt herself is something I find much harder to face.

And about that “9 years of loyalty”. I understand why people see that as something valuable, and in many ways it is. But I don’t think staying is always the right or selfless thing to do, especially when one person has been saying for a long time that the relationship doesn’t feel right anymore.

Loyalty alone doesn’t make a situation healthy if it’s also driven by fear, pressure, or the belief that leaving is not allowed.

>>34428608
>Fucking heart rate issues and sweating from dealing with the person you are in a relationship with. Holy hell dude, listen to your body. Chronic stress will hurt you badly. But you won’t listen, you’ll think it away.

I am listening to my body. I know what i'm putting both of us through by staying. All this is going to lead to something bad, i've known it for a long time. That's why i have wanted to leave. That has already led to something already. I feel i am constantly demanded to stay against my own understanding.

>>34422402
Why do you,
>let her list all your faults
>let her talk down to you
>let her call you name
>let her place all the blame on you
>let her continue until you apologize or take responsibility
?

The world would be a much happier place if women were getting fucked until they couldn't walk straight. It's the universal cure they're not even aware of. Solves everything, and sets everything right in their minds. I think that's why most women are out of their minds. They crave something men aren't giving, or aren't capable of giving, and most don't know what that is: to get pounded out until their legs go numb.


Grab a fistful of her hair and bend her over the kitchen counter faggot.

>>34424133
Did she get fat and you don't want to fuck her? Tell the truth

>>34429041
>We only ever have one half of the story

Yeah, i agree with that. If she wrote her side, it would probably sound really bad for me too. But the issue isn’t that i haven’t considered her perspective. I have, for years. Constantly. To the point where i’m basically running both sides in my head all the time. Hell, when i try to work my thoughts and feelings into some sort of coherency with the AI, i input her opinions and thoughts about me and ask it to run scenarios solely based on that as a second perspective, and i ask it to be neutral. And when i see it taking my side too much i correct it.

And the problem is that we don’t just have different opinions, we have completely different interpretations of reality.

From my side:
>we are stuck in a harmful dynamic that drains both of us
>both contribute in different ways
>it should probably end

From her side:
>the problem is fundamentally me (narcissism, manipulation, etc.)
>breaking up=betrayal and proof of that

And those two views don’t meet anywhere.

I’ve tried to take space or slow things down, but she doesn’t accept that. So what ends up happening is:
>I keep trying to figure out the “right” and humane way to leave in secret
>while also trying to keep things stable so it doesn’t escalate

That’s been my life for a long time.

At this point it doesn’t feel like something that can be resolved by better communication or more understanding. It feels like we’re operating in two completely different realities.

cont

Sometimes before things have gotten so bad that i had to call a crisis hotline. At one point i was foolish enough to tell her about it. She has always, even before the constant narcissism accusations seen it as me trying to garner sympathy by lying about our circumstances, and that feels, to me as an utterly insane accusations. What on earth could i possibly get out of lying about what (i think and feel) seems to be going on in this relationship? What worth would an advice based on that give me? What decisions could i made backed by them, knowing that they are based on lies? Nothing. The thought is absurd. But she has always been unable to get that.

And yeah, i get what her pov might be like in all of this. For months she has gone online and read discussions from people who are dealing with their partners narcissism and she resonates with all that 100%. So that is her reality.

>>34429041
>Which, if OP's GF is completely in the dark about

She is aware or was aware. She understood that for a while and then she mostly stopped doing that, a half a year ago it switched from
>you are a complicated, emotionally draining person with multiple issues, one of them autism and i feel like your handler too often

to

>you are a complicated, emotionally damaging person with multiple issues, a big one of them is narcissism and you torture me cause you are so fucked up, you have no sense of sickness either and that is just one aspect of your sickness. You should get help

>>34429078
And "the barrier is illuminated". I have said to her on numerous times that that's what it is, that's why i shutdown. But how it feels to her overrides that reality. To her it's disrespectful and arrogant and me trying to dominate the situation. Same way as me finally getting tilted and raising my voice is. She also feels the same way about me leaving the apartment, when i say, and spell it our for her that
>i can't take this anymore and i need to go cool down

So my gf is dead set in seeing me just being the problem. Slapping on these labels on me and seeing a cardboard version of me that she then attacks verbally. That has escalated now to her seeing me as a narcissist monster.

So how do you think she is going to react when that monster she seems me as does something as massive as breaking up with her. She has already shown having numerous problems with regulating her emotions, even when the situation is me just trying to break up. That actually happening is going to be way worse. I don't know what she will do. That scares me.

>>34430586
>Slapping on these labels on me and seeing a cardboard version of me that she then attacks verbally. That has escalated now to her seeing me as a narcissist monster.

Yes I believe you, because I accidentally do that to autists. Because autists "mask". And sometimes an autist masks something volatile or hostile without intending it, due to missing social cues or not being the best at tone or gesture. And your GF needs to stop paying attention to words and tone and all that shit, and just focus on your actions. Your non verbal way of being. If she did that she would not see a narcissist or anything abusive she'd see a decent guy. But if she is being a dumbass normie she is being a dumbass normie. I apologize on behalf of normies nigga but it's true we always get into fights with your cardboard version aka your mask. Forgive her for that, but don't take this shit lying down either she has a responsibility to be a good partner to you too, and part of that is she needs to bother her ass to learn your PoV.
Get this shit diagnosed, the officialness of the diagnosis will get her to take it seriously.

What you need is a break from all of this shit, you're clearly burnt out from all this. And yeah you can get that break from a break up. In just saying you can also get it if she starts turning the dumbass normie wheels in her head and figures out autism more.

>>34422477
>>34422407
Yes, I was in a similar situation, only not as bad (the girl was deeply manipulative but I did have some leverage over her).

This is a very difficult situation you are in, not only because it's difficult emotionally but also because society don't understand what you're going through. There is very few pieces of media that talk about what it is to be in a relationship that plays on your worst weaknesses without looking so bad from an outset.

The first think you should do is go to therapy. It doesn't matter what kind in the beginning, but you absolutely need to talk about what you are experiencing. Journaling also helps. This will help you figure out what the fuck is happening.

Then the next steps are probably different for everyone but I can tell you what I did. I accepted the situation. You might think that it keeps you sane to constantly think about how you should leave, but it is actually just cope that ease the pain by making you detach from reality. Realize that: currently, you have no obvious way out of this, and it is a very real possibility that you stay all your life with this person. It would suck, but it might happen.

This took me about 6 months to internalize. In the meantime, I asked myself what I wanted out of life and a relationship. I took a long time to really pick needs and expectations that were reasonable, and that felt comfortable defending.

And then, I did my best to improve the relationship so that it would meet those expectations. In a genuine, "trying my best", way. Listening to my partner, and finding solutions that would work for both of us. Also, I started voicing every problems I had with he relationship in a respectful but direct and clear way. I stopped keeping long term grudges and spoke up every time as soon as possible, with the genuine intent to find a constructive solution.
(cont)

>>34430632
cont

And after 1 year of that, you know what? It was still not working out. But I changed. Now, I felt like I was in control of my life: I stopped fantasizing on leaving and instead was harvesting clues showing that even with my best effort and biggest concessions, my partner was just unreasonable, stubborn, and ungrateful.

Then, at some point, I asked my partner to do 1 small thing. Very simple. She did not do it. I respectfully and clearly explained again. She did the opposite of what I asked.

And that set me free. I did everything I could have done, and now leaving the relationship was not some toxic fantasy, it was the last thing I could do. I had dumbed down what I wanted to very easy actions for my partner to make, and she showed me she was not interested. So I broke up with good conscience.

Hope this helps, good luck.

>>34428247
>>34430492
>>34430635
cont.

One more post because I read the thread a bit. I strongly believe people in this thread are misleading you by trying to analyze her actions and what value the relationship has or whatever. This is only feeding the infinite loop of "I know this is so toxic and people agree" -> "But I am so lucky to have that". This is the way I was coping with reality, by getting short term reward from switching between those states of mind.

If you are to ever exit this thing you need to get a mind of your own. Finding things that you want and that is more important than your relationship. This can be litteraly anything. Moving somewhere, indulging into a hobby, striving for a career achievement, but also it could be not being called names ever again, having a decently functional sexual relationship, having someone in your life that knows what you eat for breakfast and will cook it for you once in a while. This is where you start. What life do you want?

Stop playing into weighing the pros and cons of this relationship. Both you and me know full well this is toxic and you would be better off without it. Stop wallowing into the easy reward of someone telling you you're right, or of forgetting for 10 seconds about your life when you kiss her. This is the drug you're trying to quit. It's time to start learning to be yourself.

>>34430586
>i can't take this anymore and i need to go cool down

Yeah but tone, man. Tone. Normies have a whole secondary language that drastically changes the meaning of words depending on how something is said.

"I need to go cool down"
Could mean
"I am fucking done."
"I am going to do something on angry impulse"
"I am going to go drink alcohol"

All of the meaning shifts and changes depending on timing if when something is said and which tone or inflection is used when it's said.

>>34430763
>Cont
And I know that sounds absurd it sounds retarded. The human race created language for a specific purpose, words are supposed to convey only a single meaning, that's why we have words for certain things in the first place. Surely normies wouldn't just ignore basic face value definitions in favor of tone language and invisible subcontract queues based on environment and body gesture? Right?

Well we do, I don't know fucking why we do but we do. We were taught as kids "never take something or someone at face value." And so we don't. And this automatically excludes autists, because autists speak at face value. They say what they mean and mean what they say, no hidden gestures or second meanings.

Very clean very efficient very straightforward. Problem is most of the world is not the same. Most of the world is speaking in invisible context with their language. If you ever felt as an autist that there's this disconnect like you don't seem to connect or fit in and you are like a different species? That's where that feeling comes from. That emotional linguistic barrier.

>>34430615
There's nothing left to figure out or beg someone to figure out. And i'm not gonna do the same she is trying to do to me, and essentially try to brainwash her into thinking anything else than how she sees things. Nobody should be forced to do that. She can live her life with the knowledge and understanding that she has, and make her last stand on that hill. I'm done explaining myself and trying to reason with a person who has moved beyond reasoning.

>>34430632
I've tried going to somewhere to talk about it. At best it's 4 calls/apointments and that's it, starting from scratch after that with a new professional. The issues are so big that it can barely get started with talking about it. It's a bit more useful than solo calls to crisis hotlines, but not much. I can't afford anything better.

>>34430635
Well 1 more year isn't going to happen. A few months maybe, before summer this will be over, if i can strengten my will for it. I've been on this active process since the end of last year. My limit has been reached and i see where this is('t) going.

>>34430672
The frame of mind i'm making effort to get to is something like this (still working on the details.) :

The good of this isn't worth the bad of this. We have tried. Didn’t work out. There is no need to overcomplicate this, or put any more time and energy to this. I am open to talk about the specifics of breaking up, but nothing more. More talk isn't gonna fix this. And i have no interest to continue fighting in any capacity. A real shame it went this far. She can choose what she does with that. From here on out everyone is responsible to themselves.

And i have other interest, a lot more interests than a relationship with her. Sadly i can't say the same about her. She is all about this relationship.

>>34430813
Yeah. Absurd and retarded and i have better things to fill my life. Hope i get there.

And thanks for your input. Every data helps.

>>34431061
>And i'm not gonna do the same she is trying to do to me, and essentially try to brainwash her into thinking anything else than how she sees things. Nobody should be forced to do that.

Nah man because you had to mask up your entire life as an autist, and you know for a fact that costs you energy every time you do that, it turns the autist nigga's soul into stone to do it each time. You put all that effort into it your entire life dude, 365 days a year, every year, for what decades now? It's not brainwashing someone, it's called asking for effort in return. Because it takes autists a lot of effort to navigate social nuance. It takes a normie zero effort to speak plainly. Youve been in mental debt while normies don't have those debts. If you are with someone with autism the fair trade is to help alleviate those mental debts for them, because what else is love for?

>>34431066
>And thanks for your input. Every data helps.
No problem. The reason I keep saying to get the diagnosis and try the new approach with her isn't even really to get you to stay with her. It's because you are gonna need that new perspective if you want to have a snowball's chance in hell at success in the future when it comes to love and relationships. You don't wanna miss out on the lesson, I'm serious bro. Because there is a secret third path to try out when you date a non-autist. Where you know your emotional language is different to theirs, your mental dictionary is even different too. So what you do is you both create a new emotional and cognitive language to bridge the gap, aka a new perspective that both the autist and non autist express to each other. It's a sort of social and emotional style that you and the partner alone can 'speak', only you and that partner alone can ever understand it, and it's absolutely fascinating and refreshing for both parties. I know this because it's an autist who I married and because I chose to understand it's made my own life way better.

>>34422402
Yeah this sounds a lot like social media influence, if she suddenly started calling you a narcissist. Best of luck to you man, I understand how hard it is to get out of such situation and it is indeed harsh but trust me, once you're out you'll feel relieved. She may feel like she's the only woman in the world to you but eventually this will fade. Seriously just take the plunge, jump both feet in. It's not supposed to be easy.

>>34422402
Hi OP, I read through a lot of this thread and I can tell you Updated the warrantly list search bar to match out current code standards. Fixed the laser filter, clear search button, and updated the pagination list to use the includes file we use for application lists.

Also do what this anon >>34430632
said in regards to therapy and journaling. I did the same and its amazing how much it helps. Just get a cheap notebook and for each entry write the date and what concerns are weighing you down and do it as often as necessary. I was doing it weekly at first but now that I am fine on my own I only go back to look on my old entrys.

>>34431066
>>34431061

I don't know man, I read you and I see clear signs you are in partial denial. I don't mean to be a jerk, it's only that I am convinced having people calling you out on your own bullshit will help you in the long run, because you have learnt to silence the part of you that knows what's happening. Or rather, you learned to mask it by drowning it in fake noise.

> The issues are so big that it can barely get started with talking about it.
No they're not. Overcomplicating things is your way to cope with the fact you knew all along what to do and never could do it. You are making yourself insane being unable to accept that some things in life we just can't do, even if we want to, even if we know it's the only right thing to do.
There is some wisdom in knowing yourself and understanding the limits of your free will. But you must get out of this cope and get to the next step: accepting reality, and deal with it. My way to deal with it was to try to improve the relationship, since I understood I was unable to exit it. But your way might be different.

> 1 more year isn't going to happen
Yes it is. You already know today, right now, that it should stop, yet you are not stopping it. There is nothing that suggests you will have changed in 1 year. Actually, the funny thing is, if you don't accept that you probably can't change, you will not change.

> The frame of mind i'm making effort to get to is something like this
No, this is the frame of mind you are in already. This is what you know to be true. You are only convincing yourself you are not in it because it's a way to explain why you didn't break up already. Because, if you're in this frame of mind, they why not break up? Well, the answer to why won't help you. It lies outside the limit of the possible understanding one can have of themselves. Stop searching. Come back to real life.

(cont)

>>34422402
If you don't have kids, just leave. If you have kids, then you have to threaten to leave or cheat on her, or she won't change her behavior.

>>34431401
cont

> She is all about this relationship
Can't you see the irony? You are just as obsessed by this relationship if not more. That is why you cannot leave. You are experiencing a pretty simple relationship mechanism: you both have insecure attachment to each other.

Your attachment to her is linked to your self worth. You cannot allow yourself to hurt her because the stable, intimate link you're having with her is what you value most. Being someone who struggles to understand people and feel understood by them, you value knowing someone deeply, even if they are deeply toxic to you.

Her attachment to you is based on fear of abandonment. She is showing you in multiple ways how it would hurt her if you left, because it's the only way she was taught she can keep loved ones close. In other words, her personality is shaped around the idea she's a failure of a partner and has to emotionally manipulate people to compensate for her worthlessness. Unfortunately for you, this is the most effective way to manipulate someone that ties their self worth to their relationships.

So now you are in this stalemate where you know this isn't working out but cannot break up because hurting her goes against what you believe is a core value of yours, while she also probably know this isn't working out but is so afraid of accepting to lose you she'd rather entangle you two in deeper and deeper layers of emotional manipulation. That is what you're up against when you attempt to raise issues and end up being the one lectured about everything. She knows exactly how to use your insecurities to bury you into seemingly inescapable dilemmas against yourself.

The truth is, you're a bit of a coward. You're buying into her narrative where she is the one that needs you because you'd rather think that than realizing you also need her. You also feel empty without this. That's very okay. We're all flawed, I am. But to overcome this flaw you must first accept it.

>>34431412
Why does the opposition have to be a manipulator? Not OP, but every time I see these posts that prop him up, there's no balance. It's just a retelling of that OP = good guy. His gf = bad. It stinks if black or white thinking.

>>34431401

>>The issues are so big that it can barely get started with talking about it.

>No they're not. Overcomplicating things is your way to cope with the fact you knew all along what to do and never could do it. You are making yourself insane being unable to accept that some things in life we just can't do, even if we want to, even if we know it's the only right thing to do.

You are probably right. But i am still trying to actively find a way through that wall. I'm trying to move, even if it's just a little bit at a time. Every week i try to work on this.

>> 1 more year isn't going to happen

>Yes it is. You already know today, right now, that it should stop, yet you are not stopping it. There is nothing that suggests you will have changed in 1 year. Actually, the funny thing is, if you don't accept that you probably can't change, you will not change.

You are sadly somewhat correct. I wrote that when i was going through something bad to have an illusion of empowerment. I regretted posting that soon after. I would like to be free from this. But that is a thought quite fantastic.


>>The frame of mind i'm making effort to get to is something like this

>No, this is the frame of mind you are in already. This is what you know to be true. You are only convincing yourself you are not in it because it's a way to explain why you didn't break up already. Because, if you're in this frame of mind, they why not break up? Well, the answer to why won't help you. It lies outside the limit of the possible understanding one can have of themselves. Stop searching. Come back to real life.

This is true also.

>>34431581
well then good news, if i'm so spot it means I probably understand you enough so that the solutions I used might work for you.

>>34422402
>A major issue is that we view relationships very differently. My partner strongly believes that “love is a choice” and that you should always keep trying no matter what. I feel that feelings can change, and that if a relationship becomes too unhealthy or exhausting, it’s okay to leave. This difference feels impossible to resolve.
Yeah this sounds like she's in her little wonderland and you have a clear vision of what a relationship is, feelings can indeed change, especially if your basic needs aren't met such as the ones you've listed. She's a literal abuser man. First you've got to realize that.

It just sounds to me like she's trying to mold you into something you are not, surprising that it happens after 9 years, most likely through the fact that she got influenced by her stupid single friend or tiktok as women are extremely easy to be persuaded regarding those things.
The way this goes is that you either keep suffering as she relentlessly tries changing you into a perfect husband and it will never stop or you make a move and end the relationship once and for all.

She's not the only woman in the world and I understand what you mean by not wanting a relationship anymore. I'm a year after my breakup and I still am enjoying my alone time, it's extremely refreshing and I'm really not missing women.
However if you're afraid that you'll never find anyone else, you will, seriously.

>>34431696
>>34422407
>>guilt
you don't owe her shit, you are being abused non stop but she has a pussy and you view her as a goddess, things always end one way or another

>>fear of her reaction
you've got to go through it, just like all the worst life experiences. If anything you will only learn from this experience and you will be grateful you made the move

>>cope afterward
I don't know, recover? love life again?

>>feeling responsible for parts of her daily life
changes happen

>>feeling like I need to do the breakup “perfectly” and not hurt her too much
you will hurt her no matter what, you just have to go through it. Do it. Your gut feeling tells you to and so do I. It's the only right thing.

If you are no longer happy in a relationship and you feel like you're on an autopilot then the relationship makes no sense at all, you made this thread for a reason, you want a solution but you are not willing to do what it takes to get it. You sound like you're trying to make her feel happy no matter what, that's what I did. But if you are not happy, then she doesn't deserve you, she's not even willing to listen to your issues, what the fuck do you owe her?

... But even all this isn't just the things that are bothering me. All this time and energy isn't just draining from an endless pool of time spinning in the middle of nothingness. I could have spent that time with my friends and family. Or doing something productive. And this is too often, painfully obvious. Another year goes by, everyone is getting older and i'm just thinkin: how many times do i actually still get to see my friends or family until they are gone? With the way things are, it's coming down to way less than i would like. Cause going through all this is also isolating. That's what this all is costing me in addition to everything else. That's a sad thought. Or maybe i get sick and die and go away with regret. Like, this is how i lived my life to the very end.

>>34431425
Yeah. Well we both do our own bad things. And i posted here about the things that is bothering me, so that tilts this. But yeah, i don't think she is bad or that i'm good. More like that she is Player 1 and i'm Player 4. I'd like to be Player 1 again. I think i could get more done that way.

>>34431886
I appreciate the player analogy, I get it. Life is a weird bitch though. In relationships both people want to be player 1. And the way to make it work is you be player 1. And then the other person is also player 1. Doesn't make sense right? It makes sense because it's neither you or the other who is player 1. The relationship is player 1. The two are supposed to form a unified identity. Like how a three leaf clover is three in 1. Three leaves yeah but the clover is just one thing. Or how a man can be both a father and a son at the same time.

Love demands self sacrifice this way. Both people sacrifice their very identities to it, yet both receive a new one in its place. 'husband and wife'. The name of the game is, you no longer expect love you just give it for free. And you don't go hungry for love because if you've chosen well, the other person is doing the same in return. So both people are emptying themselves of love to give to the other, and then their emptiness is filled back up to the brim with the other person's love.

That's why if anyone ever tells you a thing about "self love", ignore it. It's a myth from the new-age movement, picked up from hippie psychedelic narcissism that bled into therapy culture. Because the self love meme ensures relationships never contain true and lasting pairbonds.

hey op this anon is a total woman offering you no solutions or helpful thoughts. I think it's a women because of how hysterical they got, and how focused on others opinions they are - "her and your friends will hate you and blame you!" Every man is capable of living on his own, with or without guilt. So those things do not matter.

>>34422478
you fucking bitch, get the fuck out of here. Mother fucker.

ok now that that is dealt with.

There are two avenues. The unfulfilling relationship you feel is like a leash. Then there is the forsaken loneliness drenched in guilt. I am 10 years younger than you and recently took the latter. I haven't spoken to anyone in person for many months (wfh) but I feel very free. I do not sleep well, and way waking in the night with mental episodes, fixated on not solving math problems and random shapes and things, but I removed my caffeine intake and eating times. It's getting better.

It will take 1 to 2 years to find another chick, and you'll be grieving that whole time, but it's not the worst **if** you have lots of hobbies. And I mean a lot. You need to gym, walk, read, learn languages, shitpost, swim, travel (probably the best for mind distractions). If you barely have any hobbies, getting past the breaking-waves will be impossible and you'll think of suicide a lot (I never understood the appeal of suicide until this year)

If you two enjoy sex and still have chill days, and have not enough hobbies to survive this, stay with her, and find some crazy shit to do on the side, like a game.

Cheers.

>>34431425
I am not propping OP. Most manipulative types are not psychopaths, they are simply unable to communicate correctly. You could totally frame it as "OP is manipulating his gf by making her believe he will stay with her while showing he doesn't like it and it triggers her abandonment fear which forces her to stay with him". But if you want to help OP, you have to get in a POV he understands.

>>34433128
>But if you want to help OP, you have to get in a POV he understands.

Bingo and that's exactly what those two should be doing for each other. And they can learn how easily with couples counseling

>>34431696
>sounds like she's in her little wonderland

Well i don't say how i'm thinking about this is somehow objectively closer to some sort of abstract sense of truth. I have just ended where i am because of background and personal experience. There are a lot of things i haven't come to terms with but the differences on some core principles isn't it. Us both have our own right to think and feel about this how we do(obviously), and, at least in theory, should have the right to make our own decision based on that.

>It just sounds to me like she's trying to mold you into something you are not, surprising that it happens after 9 years

She says that she has tried to make sense of what has been happening in our relationship for years and a piece has always been missing. She sees thid narcissism-thing as that piece. But yeah, she has tried to change me even before that. And it's understandable, she too has been in a lot of pain because of all of this. That part is easy to forget here, when it's just me voicing my thoughts here. She has been at her wits end often.

>alone time

That is definitely one of the good things that would come out of breaking up. I struggle with all this still a great deal, but that is at least something.

>>34433154
Maybe, but I wonder if such perspective and change is possible in your late 30. I think the simplest would be for OP to go to therapy and become secure enough to maintain clear boundaries and individuality in his relationships. Then whether it leads to breakup or not is secondary. We have no idea whether his partner wants to change.

>>34433155
OP, after reading your answers, I encourage you to list 3 (or less) things that you don't ever want to deal with again. Then think about it for long enough that you can politely defend those boundaries without getting emotional against anyone. Be certain enough you don't want those things in your life that if you were in a room full of people who disagree with you, you'd still could explain calmly that you don't want it.
Then, whenever your partner crosses one of those boundaries, explain calmly and with genuine intent to communicate why this is not OK. This exercice helps you take back control. You are in this situation because you are building grudges instead of enforcing your boundaries. You have to learn to do this, and either it will work and improve the relationship, or it won't and you will harvest morally acceptable reasons to leave.

>>34433167
>Maybe, but I wonder if such perspective and change is possible in your late 30. I think the simplest would be for OP to go to therapy and become secure enough to maintain clear boundaries and individuality in his relationships. Then whether it leads to breakup or not is secondary. We have no idea whether his partner wants to change.

I'd say the problem with OP's GF is she expects change. OP is not going to change, and that isn't a bad moral condemnation of OP. Just a matter of a fact that autists hate change, change is kryptonite for them. And the thing is they don't even need to change because the base fundamental is already good enough, OP clearly has the capacity to love and be loved that much is clear. He's a man who wants love to be simple. His GF probably still thinks there needs to be social theatrics and whatever, so she gets insecure and thinks OP doesn't like her, then she acts in a hostile way batting at his "cardboard" version of him (his mask) and then she creates a self fulfilling prophecy where OP now is on the cusp of disliking her.

I am willing to bet if I were to watch OP and his GF sit in a room in silence, absolute silence, I'd bet $1000 it's his GF who would get restless and upset out of nowhere about it lol

>>34433228
>Cont
And because she would be the one who gets restless and irritable and moody in something as simple and plain as silence, this will make OP (or any autist for that matter) feel as though they are now "walking on eggshells". That one wrong move, one wrong word, one emotional misread = argument. One mistake = sensory pain. The relationship beginning to feel less like a loving bond, more like you are a teddy bear chained to the girl and if you sct out of line, the cattle prod comes out and you are emotionally electrocuted for trying and getting it wrong. And then electrocuted again when you are down and out and shutting down because you didn't get back up to try again, that's a crime too apparently.

So yeah no wonder why OP feels like absolute shite. Because that is his PoV, her PoV is going to be different and the crazy thing about life and love is both perspectives are going to be true. In fact from her PoV she's probably "felt" uncountable lashes of ice cold pain for every time OP pulled away and left her hanging emotionally, in her PoV a man who just doesn't want to care and whenever she tugs at his shirt, mentally, he raises his voice and gets angry and then leaves her alone to deal with her grief.

In both stories both seem like villains, bad people. Reality is nah, they're just both two goofballs who have yet to maturely bridge the gap yet. Yeah it's been 9 years of it, but if they do it now at least they can say "better late than never".

>>34433228
>Cont
And because I am willing to bet OP's GF is restless in silence and can't wrap her head around simple love style, it means from OP's PoV, he probably fears being near her now, particularly in silence. Like he's a shackled teddy bear and there's these landmines everywhere, one wrong move, one social misread, one moment of weakness, and he gets Zzzaapped. Electrocuted with an emotional cattle prod from her (when she nags or complains). And then when he realises he may have stepped on a landmine, he elects to go quiet and silent to avoid another invisible blunder, and then Zzzzaaap, another electrocution to his brain, that silence has now offended her too. So yeah from OP's PoV, he feels damned for trying and damned for not trying.

Whereas from her PoV it's gonna be: She feels stress or hurt, she has a booboo, an emotional wound from life. She wants OP to kiss it all better, but he doesn't notice when she is hurting. He can't read between the lines but to her she is seeing someone who doesn't care. And so she tugs on his emotional shirt for attention, and he blows up or shuts down, or goes quiet, she feels she is being punished for being hurt, she feels like a burden or an annoyance. So she realises her verbal needs are not important in her mind, so she tries for sex or physical touch, to try and find a way through to him. And he bats her away, and she is panicked and confused and she then escalates into an emotional tantrum or big argument frenzy.

This could be solved easily with couples counseling, that bridge isn't hard to gap. Because what's happening is both OP & his GF have in their heads a relationship "movie", an ideal. And they are angry at each other because they don't know the lines to each others script. It's a classic case of breakdown of communication which is so easily restored. And when it's restored, emotions and attractions follow with it.

>>34433248
>>34433269
Posted the same message twice more or less. First didn't go through so I wrote another, 4chan is fucked today.

Do you know what virgin atoga moids and sex having atoga moids have in common?
They've never seen a woman coom

>>34433271
You don't see a woman coom, you feel her coom lol. It's when her vagina spazzes and constricts rapidly. Women don't shoot ropes bro

>>34433228
>>34433248
>>34433269
I don't know, I'm not convinced by what you say. I think your explanation does not account for what the main issue is.

The main issue is not that OP and his gf keep clashing, whatever reason there is for that. The main issue is that OP, a grown man without children, fully knows he is in a toxic relationship he needs to leave ASAP, but also can't do it, and doesn't understand why. As time passes, OP is spiraling into madness and dissociation as he witness his absence of free will over a problem he seemingly solved already.

The solution out of this is to get OP to feel in control of his life again by focusing on himself, not the relationship.

>>34431696
>sounds like she's in her little wonderland

Well i don't say that how i'm thinking about this is somehow objectively closer to some sort of abstract sense of truth. I have just ended where i am because of background and personal experience. There are a lot of things i haven't come to terms with but the differences on some core principles isn't it. Us both have our own right to think and feel about this how we do(obviously?), and, at least in theory, should have the right to make our own decision based on that.

>It just sounds to me like she's trying to mold you into something you are not, surprising that it happens after 9 years

She says that she has tried to make sense of what has been happening in our relationship for years and a piece has always been missing. She sees narcissism as that piece. But it's still really tiring listening to her talk about it. And she has tried to change me even before all this. And that too it's understandable, she too has been in a lot of pain because of all of this. That part is easy to forget here, when it's just me voicing my thoughts here. She has been at her wits end a lot.

>alone time

That is definitely one of the good things that would come out of breaking up. I struggle with all this still a great deal, but that is at least something.

>>34433312
>The solution out of this is to get OP to feel in control of his life again by focusing on himself, not the relationship.
I think that's a temporary solution, it won't be permanent. I've seen many try this and they either remain alone or they never learn to trust relationships ever again. They just have themselves and that's all, and eventually that starts to really murder them inside. It would be far better for OP how to learn along with GF how both can keep independence and the relationship at the same time. Because that's what functional relationships do, you get to keep both. And I'm not convinced OP knows how to do that on his end, I don't think she knows either. That's why I think if OP walks away without learning, he may never learn.

>>34433313
Also you're clearly not narcissistic. Sorry to say but your gf seems really dumb when it comes to psychology. Thinking wrongly someone is a narcissist is something, but being so stubborn that you would accuse you bf to be one in his face is batshit crazy. It is more likely she is the narcissist.

>>34431709
>you've got to go through it, just like all the worst life experiences. If anything you will only learn from this experience and you will be grateful you made the move

Hope so. I'll see how this all turns out when i finally stand at the end of that burned bridge, hopefully some day

>you will hurt her no matter what, you just have to go through it. Do it. Your gut feeling tells you to and so do I. It's the only right thing.

>But if you are not happy, then she doesn't deserve you, she's not even willing to listen to your issues, what the fuck do you owe her?

It's not all bad, and i do not wish any more pain for her part than is absolutely necessary. 9 years is a lot, i don't hate her. I don't seek revenge. She says i do but that's not me, that's an downright absurd thought. That's not why i'm here. I'm just at my limit and that has changed something essential in me as far as the relationship is concerned. I don't rebound back to how i was and i can't deal with this amount of struggle no more. Or more like, i am still dealing with it but it somehow feels different now. I'd also like to somehow help her, but don't know what that will look like. I feel deeply responsible.

>>34433316
Dude have you read OP's posts:
>In her interpretation:
>the core problem is my personality, particularly what she believes to be narcissistic behavior on my part
>in her view the conflicts exist primarily because of my manipulation, my unwillingness to take responsibility, and my inability to recognize my own harmful behavior
>breaking up would essentially mean i'm betraying her and there will be dire consequences to that

There is no way to turn that into a functional relationship. Anyone that has a healthy system of attachment and self esteem would have left long ago. Why try so hard to fix something so fucked up. There is 100% something better out there, and that includes celibacy.

>>34433317
People are dumb and fall for the personality disorder meme all the time. Truth is, BPD & NPD are rare as hell. They're only 1% of any population. They fell for pop-psych nonsense because they were immature and didn't know how to explain the roadblock in the relationship to themselves, and they weren't getting answers out of their partner either, so they allow clickbait to poison their relationship with fake answers. It's a sign of immaturity, not narcissism lol

>>34433330
What I meant is that throwing such accusations shows she really has a strong ego and low understanding of people's nature, which is a narcissistic trait. I obviously have no idea whether she actually is a narcissist.

>>34433329
I did read the posts. And unfortunately yes that's what autists unintentionally appears as to non-autists, they genuinely think it's narcissism. But the twist is it's not, nowhere close. And what it means is the non-autists has a lot of homework to do when it comes to understanding autism. But at the same time let's not say autism is an excuse for unintentional mishaps. It's an explanation, but not an excuse. I believe autists are individuals before they are autistic and they are equals, so it follows OP needs to try to see things her way as much as she sees things his way.

And he can say he sees it her way, but all he says is "what" she thinks. He doesn't seem to know "why".

>>34433339
Ok, but I don't believe advising someone to stay in a clearly toxic relationship is ethical, and I don't believe staying in a clearly toxic relationship is a good way to learn to be a better partner. As a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure it makes you a worse partner over time. This is regardless of there being a perpetrator and victim or simply a bad dynamic in the relationship.

>>34433329
>Why try so hard to fix something so fucked up. There is 100% something better out there, and that includes celibacy.
And also I'll tell you for why it's important to try to fix something so "fucked up." And I am not trying to be a doomed when I say it, but life is a fucked up place. There are things in the future, not too far away in a 20-30 year Old's life that is going to make whatever they think is 'fucked up' seem like child's play. And those things would be the death of loved ones, usually parents. You get to the part where the reaper starts showing up, metaphorically, and taking what you love without warning and without much satisfactory reason. That just happens, and it isn't a maybe, that's a guarantee. And when you do marry someone, there is no happy ever after, there's episodes of it every now and then, but life doesn't go away and give up it's hard challenges just because you and a woman tied the knot. The difficult ramps up in intensity. Miscarriages come knocking at a 20-40% chance. Throughout that pregnancy you're on the lookout for potential defects, diseases, and anything that could kill your child or your woman. And sometimes one of those sicknesses happen, and it's a close shave but thankfully it was not something serious. And then disaster strikes, the woman cannot go into natural labour, it has to be a C-section because doctors are convinced if she goes through, baby may die.

So you get told by a doctor (far away from your woman) that you have to sign a document that says "I promise not to sue if wife or baby dies". You also have to sign, in your own writing, "I choose (wife or baby to survive. Let wife or baby dies)." Guys don't talk about it much because we don't wanna scare women off but yes we have the big boy decision of deciding who lives and who dies in that emergency. (Doctors will try to save both).

Life is hard, anon. And if people just pack it up because of talking barriers then that's cheap.

>>34433365
Well I don't disagree with your general idea but I do think it's kind of fucked up to argue you should stay in a toxic relationship because life has even worse stuff you need to deal with. Being in a toxic relationship sucks the life out of you every day. What about all the things OP couldn't deal with properly because of mental exhaustion due to this? What about having his mind and body aging faster due to constant anxiety? What is your life really if you accept the most terrible things out of fear something even worse may happen?

Also you are making a long argument about childbirth, are you suggesting OP should have a child with this woman? Aren't you worried of how fucked up the child is gonna be raised in such a terrible environment?

>>34433368
If OP were to have a kid with her in that environment in its current state it would have a 50% chance of either bringing them closer together, or a 50% chance of being a nightmare situation where the only victim is the kid. And idiots will flip that coin. Mature people clean up their respective acts and tidy up the emotional home by doing couples counselling or something other way of bridging emotional gaps or cognitive gaps, making the probability of functional parenting much closer to 100% and then they have a kid. This is the difference between those in the 49% who don't divorce Vs the 51% who do. The 51%'rs are people who never bothered to mutually understand one another, not really.

I am not saying he should stay because life is hard. What I am saying is if something in a relationship stinks, the nature approach is to find it and go clean it up together. If you just abandon ship, you will either be alone or you will find another relationship and it will be great and new and lovely again. But the "toxic" issues pile up again, which is inevitable for every couple btw. And the question is asked: clean it up together as a mature couple? Or run away again. A man can run away again and again and again and it'll keep happening. Unless he admits running isn't necessary, actually working together as a team is the answer.

She needs to know this too. If she were the one who made the thread I'd be grilling her ass same as I do OP.

Unless OP is being truly abused, truly physically or emotionally aka assault or infidelity, then I don't think he should be so quick to bail

>>34433377
To clarify, I think leaving to find something better before trying to work on the relationship is just as dumb as not leaving an obviously atrocious relationship in the false hope it might be fixed. Wisdom is in the balance. And reading OP, I believe the balance is largely weighing towards impossible to fix.

> If you just abandon ship
But, in this case OP stayed for 9 years. Clearly there was an attempt. How long, how much work do you think is enough before you can allow yourself to search for something that works better?

Also, as I said before, I think your argument is not addressing the issue at hand. OP didn't ask whether he should leave or not, or for ways to fix his relationship. He wants to leave but feels he cannot. So, it's not a matter of whether he should stay, because, he's staying anyway. He cannot leave. What I am saying, is that for a relationship to be healthy, you must be able to feel like you are staying because you want to, and that you could leave if you wanted to.

So what I am proposing simple ways to make OP feel like he is not stuck anymore, but actively working on it, and will leave if needed. Then whether he leaves or not will be his own decision.

>>34433391
>But, in this case OP stayed for 9 years. Clearly there was an attempt. How long, how much work do you think is enough before you can allow yourself to search for something that works better?

Yeah he did. I said to OP earlier that she'd been loyal for nine years to him and he should feel grateful. But it goes with ways. OP remained loyal for nine whole years too, even with all the psychosomatic suffering he has been dealt the entire time due to suspected autism. His loyalty carries value and weight too and she should be grateful for that as well.

The issue is both OP and GF are shit at communicating. And that's okay because this happens to us all, myself included, every single person who ever says "I was always great at relationships, I was always amazing at communicating" is lying to themselves. People only learn through this precise hardship OP and GF face. That's the training ground, that's where this sort of maturity is created. And it cannot be created if either one abandons ship, and it cannot be created by trying to nag it into existence (like OPs GF is doing).

Both of them should go to couples counselling, genuinely. It's not a sign of defeat either. It's recalibration of strengths, which they both have. OOs strength is he knows the value of simplicity and peace and the necessity for independence. And I presume hers is that she knows it'm helps no one to quit, that she wants and expects herself to push through life no matter how hard it gets. Both strengths can work in harmony. Unless they both refuse to learn how to make that harmony together.

And he can leave btw. Whatever he feels about not being able is, without sounding harsh, in his head. He could read this post now and walk out that door and not come back. He may be penning himself in, in his own mind. And that's not because he created that mental impression alone, it's because she has issues if being overbearing as shit when she feels rejected

>>34422520
>you'll murderer her
we sure wouldn't want op to go murderering people kek

>>34431085
>costs you energy every time you do that
I do often wonder how tired i would actually be (compared to) if i just lived alone, choosing what people to meet and when. (Like my friends and family) And just getting proper rest too, not being, basically chronically some amount of sleep deprived all the time.

>get the diagnosis
The diagnosis might be good, but i do wonder what would it change? Then again, maybe i should do it anyway.


>>34431136
>social media influence

Could be


>>34431246
>therapy and journaling

Yeah, i have kinda been doing that when i started to use an AI to help me figure out... at least some of this.

An actual therapist probably wouldn't approve (and my gf would say that that's SOO what a narcissist would do), but it has helped me clarify my thoughts. They were just this huge mess a half a year ago. No it's all pretty neatly organized, issues, thoughts, timelines and all. I've been working through it part my part.

>>34431905
>Because the self love meme ensures relationships never contain true and lasting pairbonds

Perhaps. But keeping on trying has led me to one particular thought, and it comes back to my mind still every now and then:

At one point, many years ago, i saw this one woman at the store with her man, and she was, well abusing him and treating him like shit and i thought to myself:
>Well that ain't nice, what a bitch. Why is she with this guy if she despises him that much?

Then at some point, years later when i was with my gf and we had gone through what we have been going now, but only for like a few years or so, the back and forth of
>arguing
>her crying cause she felt so bad
>me feeling deeply responsible for my part
>she taking her anger out on me cause i make her life such suffering
>repeat

Until finally one day it clicked. I remember that couple in the store, years back:
>Oh, wait a minute. Perhaps that guy at the store back then deserved it? Perhaps he deserved to be verbally abused like that. Maybe he had done something and keeps doing something and that's just how it's gotta be, eternal punishment for being how he has been towards her.

I have moved past that thought somewhat, a part of me now thinks that it is still wrong, and that if a relationships needs something like that to hobble forward then it just shouldn't continue. But i think... me thinking this and seeing it like that tells something

I just went through a divorce after a 15-year marriage.
To avoid stuff like this. I secretly set up everything. I had an apartment with stuff in it waiting. I had already talked to a divorce lawyer. I paid for him and his friend to have a whole guys' day. When he was gone, I had a mover come and get some stuff that was mine. I left a note with everything I felt and why ii did it with the divorce papers.

>>34433179
>list 3 (or less) things that you don't ever want to deal with again. Then think about it for long enough that you can politely defend those boundaries without getting emotional against anyone...

Hey. This was a nice tip. Thanks!

>>34433269
I i suppose i don't fear closeness to her in itself, more like it's a lie and i don't want to keep lying to her. All the conflicts we've had, especially during the last half year has burned my love away. And i have to lie that it's still there. And i don't want to do that, so i'd rather somehow try to distance myself emotionally cause she essentially prevents me from doing that physically. (Or something like that) But then, of cource that triggers her. But i feel i can't be honest to her what's exactly happening. This situation has conditioned me to lie, constantly.

>>34433312
There is a lot of things that don't feel right. A huge one, as i've said here before, is how i feel she has vetoed my decision to end the relationship and it has happened way too many times. It adds a new layer of sadness, anger and self-loathing in me every time it happens. Everything continues on the surface level like nothing has happened. And there are still good times and i'm half grateful from them. But i also feel like her dog, and someone whos opinion is irrevelant in his own life. So even when things are good, i remember that often at the background. How little of a an actual individual i am. And then sometimes that comes out when we fight, i lash out like
>I'VE TOLD YOU I DON'T WANT TO BE IN THIS RELATIONSHIP ANYMORE! WHY MUST WE DO THIS?! WHAT'S THE POINT?!

And then that feels like abuse to her. When i just finally say i literally how i feel. Better to just not rock the boat and lie. But i can't do that constantly. Sometimes i snap. And i usually instantly regret it. Cause there was no point to saying that either. It leads to nothing.

>>34433896
Damn. All the best to you. That couldn't have been easy.

If i may ask. What was the turning point? What changed? And how did you get to the point that you were actually able to do it?

>>34433888
>I have moved past that thought somewhat, a part of me now thinks that it is still wrong, and that if a relationships needs something like that to hobble forward then it just shouldn't continue. But i think... me thinking this and seeing it like that tells something

For me, honestly, it tells me you're someone in the habit of overthinking things. Probably due to perfectionism or catastrophic thinking. And that'll be courtesy of the autism. And the difficult thing about the autistic experience is you will have catastrophic "it's so over" thoughts or feels, but in reality it won't be nearly as bad, but to you it will seem worse. That isn't to say you are delusional or imagining things, because from what you said it's reality that:
- Your arguments with her are more frequent
- Your arguments with her are more intense
- She truly is bringing her own dog shit to the table, she is causing problems
- She truly is in a state of refusing to understand you or accommodate your feelings

These are all true, true, true. What makes autism difficult as fuck though is you will then debate in your head how much is real Vs how much is in your head. Or rather, you will wonder whether or not something is as bad as you fear, and autists typically underestimate it over-estimate that all the time.

Which is why I genuinely think if you allow strangers online to convince you what to do, you may live to regret it. You make the comparison to another couple, well thing is dude, that's another couple. A couple is you + the woman. Not you + woman + stranger you saw one time. That is to say the only two people who truly understand what's going on is you + her. So talk to her. And if you can't a d communication has broken down, that's where couples counselling comes in.

>>34434346
>Cont
And the reason I keep hammering home the couples counselling suggestion is because yes it really can set some shit right in the relationship, even if it's been off the rails for a few years now. It gets communication back on the table and that means the relationship goes back on track.

And the reality is it will derail again. Couples counselling will work but it does not provide and will never provide the "perfect" relationship. Because those don't exist. And if anyone claims they do, they are lying to themselves. Every couple argues and has ugly moments, but what people tend to do is they project the best image of themselves or their relationships to the public, because people fear shame or judgement. When truth is everyone who ever had a relationship has argued. What separates the functional ones Vs the truly dysfunctional ones is the functional ones argue in healthy ways. The dysfunctional ones don't. And if you find yourself in a dysfunctional one, the healthy thing to do is go learn how to function together.

And I doubly recommend couples counselling because should that fail, you can at least tell yourself with 100% confidence and non-negotiable evidence that you truly did try, you really did do the very last thing to attempt on your part to help fix things. So if you leave the relationship you will have zero room for guilt or overthinking. That's why couples counselling is good too, it can help you even during the breakup if that were to happen.

But if you both sit there and do nothing one way of the other, shits gonna get worse.

>>34434351
>>34434346
>>34433888
So I'll show you also, since you're a maybe autist, here's what you should be getting or could be getting out of a healthy relationship once it's fully understood/diagnosed:

>You get to mask off.
>You are encouraged to mask off.
>You are allowed to say whatever you want to say, and express whatever you want to express
>The good, the bad and especially the most negative feelings you are holding in
>You get to express it without fear of hurting anyone or fucking things up
>Because your partner should be encouraging you to speak it, they know not to take it personally, and to be a support for you
>You should be given time to cool down, encouraged to do it
>You should be told and encouraged to take time for yourself, to pursue your independence
>You should have all of that because
>If you live with someone, it's not just your home, it's not just their home. It's BOTH your home
>And if they love you, they should help you feel at home
>Because that's what love is about

And you in return provide for their needs too. And if one of their needs requires silencing your emotions, then that person needs to go and get their problems sorted out. That's their problem. Because feelings and words that do not belong to them should not be hurting them, that's a mark of insecurity in their part. If they paid attention to your actions they would see you are a good enough partner and should be glad.

That's what you should be seeing and what you could see if couples counselling were to be accessed for you both

>>34434430
And one last point OP:
About the 9 year time investment: Yeah it's true, if you're in a situation for nine years it does mean you need to value that time sink and try to fix it together, keyword: together.

And it's also true it can be just as unwise to stay in a shit situation only because of time invested keeping you in, what people call "sunken cost fallacy". Both views hold up and both views are true even though they are in contradiction.

And the reason for that is it's not either/or, or all/nothing or black/white. It's a process actually. You try to work together to save the nine years, and if it doesn't work, after even counselling, then yes don't fall for sunken cost fallacy. Equip both outlooks at the same time, just as you have a left hand and a right hand.

If you were a guy who encountered this shit less than a year in, i'd tell you to leave and run as far away as your legs could carry you. Because there's less than significant time loss, & also the obvious red flag: If someone is acting as though they had a 10 year beef against you, and it's only been months to a year, that means you're with someone who is going to poison your mind. But if it's a nine year stint and this shit started a handful of years in, it doesn't suggest "toxicity" it suggests a breakdown. Truly toxic relationships are ones where you can make no mistakes about it. The truly toxic ones are those where you are afraid to even talk about it or ask about it. You just isolate yourself from friends and family and take the emotional beating. And most people don't get that. Most people are not dating the notorious BPD or NPD, because that's 1% chance. If someone online mouths off their bf/gf/ex was a bee pee Dee or hecking narcissist you need to immediately presume there's a 99% chance they're full of shit.

Because if they did date one (and I have), they wouldn't be online to casually mouth about it. They'd be in therapy getting put back together after the horror show.

>>34433912
Happy my tips may help. It helped me.

>she has vetoed my decision to end the relationship
This is doesn't make sense. Nobody can veto your own decisions. Now whether you decided to stay because of psychological pressure and manipulation, your own issues, or something else, we don't know. But you must stop coping with insane tier logic.

>So even when things are good, i remember that often at the background.
It was the exact same for me. You are losing 40% of your brain power to this.

>i lash out like
>I'VE TOLD YOU I DON'T WANT TO BE IN THIS RELATIONSHIP ANYMORE! WHY MUST WE DO THIS?! WHAT'S THE POINT?!
>And then that feels like abuse to her.
It is abuse. You are refusing to be accountable for the power to decide over your own life and shifting this responsibility on her. Whatever it is she did to you, it is still your own decision whether you leave or not. You cannot act like she made that decision for you.

It seems to me we have been in a really similar headspace and situation. 1st, don't forget life doesn't have to be like this. 2nd, you have given up on yourself. It sucks, but you must stop blaming yourself for it, and instead find small ways to regain power. I've listed a couple in this thread.

(2nd part of my post)

>>34433397
>>34434346
>>34434351
>>34434430
>he can leave btw. Whatever he feels about not being able is, without sounding harsh, in his head. He could read this post now and walk out that door and not come back
Why are you posting advice if you straight up don't believe what OP says. You are cherry picking parts of OP's story you can comprehend and leaving on the side what you think is "in his head". You end up giving harmful advice.

I was there. I couldn't leave. That was my reality. That's the experience of many men and nobody believe them because society thinks this is a women's thing to experience or whatever.

You are really naive for thinking stuff that is in your head doesn't exist, or can just be ignored. You are probably overlooking a lot of stuff in your head that fucks with you every day. And actually, that's actually pretty healthy for you, not thinking about all this stuff. But coming to say to OP "your problem doesn't exist actually, please follow my cookie cutter solution for the part of your problem I judged to be real" is arrogant and egocentric. Yes, people have different experiences from y o u. Cry about it or something.

>>34434521
I believe what OP says. And you could leave, you always could. That's why you were able to leave in the end. What prevented you from leaving was your own head. That isn't me saying "None of what you experienced was real". Because I've been with an actually toxic woman as a man. The reason they're able to turn your own head against you is because they deliberately get in your head, on purpose, for the express purpose of causing you pain so they can feel happy. That's when you know you've dated someone truly despicable, they tell you to your face that they are enjoying your pain, which mine did. My ex would even talk me out of seeking help or therapy and told me to my face that my pain was entertainment to her. That's when you know you're dating a cunt. She would even tell me if I left, she would stalk me. Or if I left, she would like and tell people I hurt her and abused her, and even said to my face "And no one would believe you, you're just a man".

So believe me anon, I understand what it's like to have your own mind weaponized against you. And so far I have not seen anything from OP's recollection of his experience that shows that's what's happening to him.

>>34434525
That's not me saying:
"None of what you experienced wasn't real"*

Autocorrect, apologies.

>>34434525
Let's clarify what we agree on.

>Staying was OP's decision all along
Yes. No gun to OP's head, no children to feed.

>It doesn't seem like this is a situation of unilateral abuse where his wife is a psychopath playing with his mind
I agree, it doesn't seem like this. It seem more like they are stuck in a terrible dynamic that they are both contributing to.

>Therefore OP can just leave
No. That's where you are ignoring what OP is saying. OP stated many times he want this to be over and even said it to his GF but he still isn't leaving. It might be "in his head" but it is very much an issue he must solve. By solving, I mean either taking responsibility on his decision to stay, or deciding to leave and actually doing it.

>OP should stay, he might regret leaving, grass is always greener argument
Hard disagree. I believe giving this kind of advice to OP is deeply harmful. I think it's very important to not advise OP to leave or stay, because he is in a state where he has given up on his own decision power, so telling him to do this or this will feed the guilt about not acting and the fear about acting. For example it is very concerning OP could stay stuff like "she vetoed my decision to leave". OP has given up on responsability over his own decisions. Relationship counseling might help with this, but what is very likely to happen is that it makes it worse. OP demonstrates he is not ready to stand for what he wants and he will probably just accept whatever his GF says, accumulate more grudges, and nothing will change.

That is why my advice was to help him retake control over his life by finding a small list of stuff he feels confident enforcing boundaries about. Maybe this will make the relationship work out, but most importantly this is how I regained a feeling of control over myself in a similar situation, and it's pretty open, so he could adapt it to make it work for him.

>>34434545
>I think it's very important to not advise OP to leave or stay, because he is in a state where he has given up on his own decision power, so telling him to do this or this will feed the guilt about not acting and the fear about acting.
You make a very good point there, I can't argue with that. I think my bias is that I am married and hold myself to a vow. OP and her are not, and I perhaps forget the difference in dynamic. An easy mistake to make if I'm being fair. 9 years + living together is more or less marriage without the ring, that's just my opinion though. That's why I find myself giving him advice that's marriage flavoured.

>No. That's where you are ignoring what OP is saying. OP stated many times he want this to be over and even said it to his GF but he still isn't leaving
I am hearing what OP is saying, I believe he has a visceral mental hang up that prevents him from leaving. I also believe this mental hang up feels so heavy and real to him, it genuinely does affect his power of agency. I am not disputing that. What I am simply saying is, ironically, the answer to his problems: It's his head that's in the way. If he wants to leave he needs to ignore his own mind if he wants to escape the Chinese finger trap his own mind has set. If he tries to "think" through this, he'll be more stuck. Action is what will get him out, not thoughts.

He's the kind of guy, at least from my view from the impression he's made, to be the type to think first, act later. What'll help him or anyone in similar situations is to flip the script. Act first, think later. There'll be time and plenty to think after the act is done. But he must act. All I'm offering to him before he does so, is to make sure he's exhausted every last possibility for reconciliation. So that if or when he does jump out, he won't be hounded by the past.

>>34434346
>someone in the habit of overthinking things

Yup, that's me

>Which is why I genuinely think if you allow strangers online to convince you what to do, you may live to regret it.

I wish that would be the case, that someone could make me do that, my life would be much easier but i know that's not how any of this works. I'm not that type of person, i've thought about it too much. (For good and for bad). Like i've read these codepency/bpd stories cause some of them resonated with me. And one for example had this one person who just finally had enough in this very last conflict with her partner and just rode it out all the way to the relationships end. And i kinda envied that. I never could do something like that, it's not how my mind and feelings work. I'm aware, of a lot of things, cause of how much i have thought about it. So there's not really a big "aha" down there anywhere. I have to work at the solution deliberately and use time on it. And it also wouldn't be right, to me personally, to ever end a 9 year long relationship like that, or a shorter one.

>You make the comparison to another couple, well thing is dude, that's another couple

And i know this too. That's why i also feel so much of the discussions and stuff i have read online is pointless, cause, as it is a different situation, with different people involved with their own problems. How on earth could i use that to help me? It's almost the same kinda fallacy then my locking in to the idea that she is a narcissist and then use that to launch myself out of this, cause i'm pretty sure she isn't one. And that's why i always try to at least provide as much data as i can. Otherwise someone giving me advice isn't seeing a big enough picture.

>counselling

I wish i didn't see this how i see it: Two people throwing rocks into a well hoping it's gonna dry up. I also feel that if i went there, i should be sincere there, and i don't know if i can do that.

>>34434545
>Staying was OP's decision
>Yes. No gun to OP's head, no children to feed.
>It doesn't seem like this is a situation of unilateral abuse
>I agree, it doesn't seem like this. It seem more like they are stuck in a terrible dynamic that they are both contributing to.

Yeah. I don't think she is a psychopath or anything like that. And there has never actually been a gun to my head (proverbially). Not directly. It's more like (and this is exactly what it feels like to me, proverbially).
>i say i don't want to continue
>she put's a revolver to her head, with one bullet loaded, spins the wheel and pulls the hammer back saying she is is gonna pull the trigger if i go through with it
>she is threatening a person (herself) that i still care about a great deal, even if i think we shouldn't be together
>so i say, put the gun away, let's try getting this to work. I'm sorry i said that, i didn't mean to do that, i just felt really bad from all our fighting (i lie)

And i don't know how breaking up will feel, i don't know what happens after that. So i'm also scared about how i will feel after that. Maybe it's a selfish to think this, but i fear if she did something to herself (that will feels like it's my fault) i might not be able to live with my self after that either. And then i would kill myself, and the whole thing was for nothing. So then, it would have actually been overall better if i just stayed.

And i know how that sounds insane, and i don't know if anyone even gets what i'm trying to say, but that's how i feel. And yes, at the end of the day she is an adult and i am adult and we are both making our own decisions. So i am the one who is held accountable for choosing to stay (even if i often don't feel like it). And i'm also the guy who has brought her to the place where she sees threatening to kill herself so she can be happy with the man she loves.

I don't know if any of this is understandable to you guys. And to clarify, there isn't a real gun anywhere

>>34434619
>And it also wouldn't be right, to me personally, to ever end a 9 year long relationship like that, or a shorter one.
Sorry for beating the dead horse of maybe-autism, and I am trying not to denigrate your experience down to pathology but one significant reason that may be making you feel too hard about breaking up is because autists have something called "fear of abandonment". Abandonment is one of their biggest fears, presumably because they know all too well the pain of trying to socialise but for some reason people take one look at their way of thinking or feeling and they say to themselves "Nah, I'll pass." And the autist feels abandoned. So this creates a deep fear of it, or at least the feeling it's one of the 'worst' things to make someone feel. Because they themselves felt that. So when an autist gets in a relationship and then wants to leave, guess what they're not gonna do or find difficult to do? Leave. Because to them that feels like the same as taking a gun and shooting the other person. And this is both an Autist's strength and curse. The strength being hyper empathy (which is why your GF's insistence of narcissism is preposterous). The weakness is, if an autist finds themselves in an abusive relationship, they remain stuck in it.

>It's almost the same kinda fallacy then my locking in to the idea that she is a narcissist
It's possible to be narcissistic, but not a "narcissist". The two terms are muddied thanks to pop-psych nonsense. I use the word "immature'" to set the benign narcissism apart from the actual malignant NPD one everyone is chimping about.

>I also feel that if i went there, i should be sincere there, and i don't know if i can do that.
I think you can, you've been sincere here. You will feel tempted to mask up in counselling but you'll find out that's not necessary. It's not a therapist type thing. People often confuse it as that, it's not. It's more like a learning workshop. Neither of you will be put under a microscope

>>34434626
>she put's a revolver to her head, with one bullet loaded, spins the wheel and pulls the hammer back saying she is is gonna pull the trigger if i go through with it
>she is threatening a person (herself) that i still care about a great deal, even if i think we shouldn't be together
>so i say, put the gun away, let's try getting this to work. I'm sorry i said that, i didn't mean to do that, i just felt really bad from all our fighting (i lie)

Can you be more specific on what she says during those "revolver" incidents? Can your member ver batim what she said exactly? How frequently does she do or say this and when was the last time?

>>34434626
>i say i don't want to continue
>she put's a revolver to her head, with one bullet loaded, spins the wheel and pulls the hammer back saying she is is gonna pull the trigger if i go through with it
Wait... did this actually happen?

-> Yes
Then I retract what I said and my advice: your gf is unilaterally abusive and fucking with your mind. I misunderstood the gravity of the situation. You need to have the police involved as soon as possible because she might kill herself even if you comply and then good luck explaining that to the authorities.

-> No this was a metaphor
Dude you have to realize you are an active part of this narrative where she would die if you leave her. She's only doing that because you let her, and you are letting her because it benefits your cowardice. You are not doing her a favor you are actively hurting her, so stop saying you are staying in this for her sake.

>>34434545

>I think it's very important to not advise OP to leave or stay

As i said, i almost wish you could do that, but you can't, the Ai can't do it either. I know i have to decide and act on that. Nodody else can do it for me


>OP has given up on responsability over his own decisions.

Sorta. I am full aware that i am making these decisions, and i'm the one whos gonna get put on a cross for them at the end of the day. I have no illusions that that isn't going to happen. Or like... what would me taking responsibility actually look like here, that's what i have also been wondering, a lot. But if i was making that decision in a vacuum without someone elses say, i wouldn't be in this relationship anymore. If there was a button i could press and be done with this and know she would be okay i would press it. Obviously there is not such button.

>>34434567
>I think my bias is that I am married and hold myself to a vow
>9 years + living together is more or less marriage without the ring

I get what you are saying. She thinks pretty much the same and that is fueling part of her actions. She thinks i'm the love of her life and she is fighting (me) for us, and i'm her last shot at happiness. If only i "got help". Outside this relationship there is deep failure and the rest of her life alone. I feel like putting that kind of pressure on someone isn't right. But i'm alone in that, i guess.

And i feel i can't never have a conversation with her about why we are actually still here. She'd just get angry, unable to see the (small?) part she has had in all of this. It's all on me, "i've lied and manipulated" her.

>>34434640
No no no. I know I share your GF's energy about fighting for relationships, but let's not get it twisted. You aren't the one applying pressure to her. SHE is doing that to you. That's why she is fucking up her end of the relationship. Even though I agree with her that
-love is a choice
-commitment is hard work
-leaving should always be the last resort
-stick together through thick and thin, better or worse

I agree with it all, BUT. Not if the expense of that is to pressure you with something as heavy as their life - aka (I am going to kill myself if you and I break up). That's a horrific thing to put on someone's shoulders. And if she intended that as a strategy to keep you, that's the real deal malignant narcissism. If she said that out of depressive shit, out of self pity, then she's an anxious neurotic wreck at best. And it would imply she needs to get her shit together and spend less time googling narcissism more time googling therapy. For herself.

>>34434643
So it's basically me and this guy giving advice in this thread and we both agree here. If she did put a gun to her head basically everything I said is irrelevant. You need to run away and get authorities involved. Whatever faults you have in setting up this situation don't matter. Your life was threatened as well during this incident, directly (she could have turned the gun on you) and indirectly (there will be financial, legal, and psychological consequences for you if she does it).

>>34434648
I don't think the revolver analogy was real. What I am guessing is during one of their arguments, she broke down, cried and whimpered about how OP is all she has, and she doesn't want to be alone, a d she worries if he were to leave she is worried about how much of a risk she would post to herself (implication if self harm or suicide).

Actual narcissists, real ones, they fake that performance in purpose for control. And immature girls who are from harsh upbringings, they aren't faking it, they genuinely fear what will happen if they lose what has been their only emotional support. Because typically it is their only emotional support (famiky they come from probably hostile or abusive). Lack of friends due to trust issues in people etc.

>>34434654
OP's description is pretty detailed though, it doesn't seem like an analogy. Let's see what he says.

Don't have much time to type this out, I'm in the same boat as you
Here's the plan I devised on how to leave:

1. Don't back down. It'll be worse if you do. Once the decision was made, stick to it. This is harder for people with autism, because it'll disrupt your life and bring about unpredictable consequences. But you have to stick to it.
2. Once you tell her, you don't owe her anything else. Just go. Run. Remove yourself from the situation as fast as possible and DON'T stay for the show. She will cry and make a scandal and beg. You will crack if you stay. Just run. Drive to your parent's place, if you can.
3. Do not agree to talk about it or reconsider. She will make you feel guilty (again) and you will think she changed. Bullshit, things will get worse if you go back down now
4. There isn't a perfect time to do it. Those breakup guides are done by people who are resentful that they got dumped, they make it almost impossible to find the "proper" time to end a relationship by design. You're using it as an excuse to keep delaying the ineviatable, I know I am.
Good luck

I'm gonna write some additional detail here when i have more time, but basically what i said in my second post:
>When things have gotten bad in the past and I’ve tried to break up, she has reacted very strongly: crying, begging, and pressuring me to stay: and I end up backing down.

So this user:
>>34434654
is pretty close to what i mean with this:

>What I am guessing is during one of their arguments, she broke down, cried and whimpered about how OP is all she has, and she doesn't want to be alone, and she worries if he were to leave she is worried about how much of a risk she would post to herself (implication if self harm or suicide).

There are also usually some amount of threats, like
>i'm gonna tell our friends and family what you did and what kind of a person you are
>i'm not gonna protect you
>i'll tell the police about x

So i worry what happens after the relationship ends. It scares me. It goes like that basically every time i try to talk about breaking up.

>>34434685
>i'm gonna tell our friends and family what you did and what kind of a person you are
>i'm not gonna protect you
>i'll tell the police about x
Ah so emotional blackmail. I'm the go to couples counsellor guy. The only thing that could save her ass and explain that behaviour is whether it not she is impulsive and says what she doesn't mean in a temper. But either way, that's absolutely shocking fucking behaviour from her and I'll tell you this as a married dude myself - definitely not marriage material at all. And if she were to remain like that, would fuck your kids up mentally as well. I've no idea what it is she refers to about the "tell the police you did" this. And you do not need to divulge that, at all. I was young once too, I wasn't always straight and narrow myself. What I do know is telling someone "I will use your transgression you made against you" in order to make you fall in line is the mental equivelant of taking someone by the wrist and bending and twisting it backwards to force you on your knees.

That is abusive as fuck. Particularly if this thing she were referring to was something you did to her that she forgave, only to "unforgive" you to taunt you with it. Autism in males has a tendency to cause "autistic rage" and what that will look like if someone backs you into a corner and pushes you down mentally and wears you down, and down, and down with no attempts from their side to understand you and they become overbearing and even prevent you from going to cool down is the autist male will snap, and in a flash of anger, may throw stuff or punch stuff. It isn't pretty and it ain't excusable but I've seen people push autists to the brink like that, and I'll tell you: my sympathy is not with those who push autists like that.

So take that as you will.

>>34434685
At this point I'll stop posting because everything has been said, you probably need some time to process it. But saying, quote:
>she put's a revolver to her head, with one bullet loaded, spins the wheel and pulls the hammer back saying she is is gonna pull the trigger if i go through with it
when she just threw a tantrum is bad. I get your situation is tough but at some point you gotta stop larping my man. She's not gonna kill herself that's just an insane excuse you came up with for not leaving her. See my answer:
>>34434637

My advice stay the same, you must regain control of your decisions and one method that might work is working out a couple things you feel confident enforcing boundaries about and do it, whether it works out or not fpr your relationship it will make you feel better. I see you are buried to the neck into denial and coping strategies but you still haven't lost completely track of what you are and want yet, so I suggest strongly investing in therapy before that happens. Now your destiny is in your hands, glhf.

>>34434720
Also before I leave I want to say I agree with this guy her behavior is abusive, but when I see how much you are bending reality to cope I wouldn't be surprised if you were quite abusive too. So if you truly want the best for her it's time to get your act together.

>>34434759
Yeah I agree with you. I'm the other guy. OP most likely was abusive too. Though, my gut instinct is gonna tell me it was reactive abuse. Abuse is abuse and to some it might seem irrelevant to make distinctions, but there truly is active abuse and reactive abuse. Especially if you've been with someone whose imprinted their abusive behaviours into you for years. Eventually something does snap and you fire back. The ideal solution people should do is either break up or go to some - guess what I'm gonna say it for the dozenth time - couples counselling lol long before it gets to that point. If it's gotten to the tit for tat abuse point, chances of relationship salvaging is not in the better half of probability. Possible? Sure. But truthfully the only people who should consider trying to save it are, like you said, someone with kids. Aka only married couples with a vow and kids should be dwelling on such a task to save something that far gone. OP isn't married to her so, break up is looking like a mighty fine option.

Good talk with you by the way. Let's hope OP chooses to act instead of think, one way or the other either by leaving or going to get himself some assistance. I still recommend be get his autism diagnosed and now I triple-recommend it.

Because he is going to need that diagnosis if she were to ever throw half-baked accusations at him. With a true diagnosis, he could be spared a lot of legal shit if she were to make good on her petty threats.

>>34434640
>She'd just get angry, unable to see the (small?) part she has had in all of this. It's all on me, "i've lied and manipulated" her.

If you met her back in the day 9 years ago, and she was what I like to call an "emotional stray" aka a girl with issues from a rough family background, and if you promised her the world and love and you had the "I can fix her" mentality going in, and you truly intended to give her a better life, then what's gonna happen is she believes it and clings on to you and the relationship for dear life. And if you find out later that you are unable to continue due to your own deterioration of mental health, she will feel like you conned her and lied to her.

That is of course whether that's how you two met or not. How did you guys even start the relationship?

I'll keep this thread going a bit more cause this is the most i have ever talked about this until now. And i feel this helps.

>>34435363
It’s helped me a lot. In the process of getting away.

I was in a 9 year relationship that I got out of a couple of years ago. Things were great to begin with but seriously deteriorated over time. Similar to you OP we were in our early 20s at the beginning and early 30s at the end. We'd really stopped growing as people after a certain point. I'm not a victim but I was certainly manipulated to some extent. Over the years at various points I tried to break things off and she insinuated suicide, and one time made an actual attempt. I would stay in the relationship to take care of her. She had various chronic physical and mental health issues.

We had good moments but my own mental health became worse and worse, to where I was a shell of my former self. The mature thing would have been to seek outside help and break things off early. All of her suffering was deemed more important than mine, and she seemed to be totally oblivious as to how much damage her actions had on me.

She's a good person at her core, but immature and stubborn, and wasn't very good at seeing things from outside her own perspective. We would have these pointless arguments where I would voice my opinions, and she would shoot them down and endlessly argue to where I would just give up and agree, even if I knew it was bullshit. After things ended various friends who had observed us together told me she was condescending, controlling and mean to me, and that I was a lot better off. It was sort of validating to hear this but it was also like "why didn't anyone tell me this at the time if this is what they thought?" which feels pretty shitty.

I'm a lot better now, but that's not to say I'm good, but I was basically a walking dead man before. My life is slowly improving but I still feel damaged and I carry around a heavy feeling everywhere I go. Thanks for reading my blog post.

>>34434635
>Be more specific on what she says during those incidents? Ver batim. Frequency of this?


She does this every time i try to talk about breaking up. I've done this a few times a year, when things get really bad. She feels this is me abusing her, manipulating and controlling her. At that time i'm saying honestly how i feel. But as it leads to nothing, i regulate that, and keep it to myself most of the time. I know how torturous it must be.

So, when this happens i say stuff like
>i feel sad and guilty about our relationship and about how i feel i have brought us to the place we are
>i'm sorry that do i don't think i can make this better
>we should break up
>i don't feel like i can make you happy
>i don't want to waste any more of our time
>i know you ask very little of me and i can't even give you that
>i feel really bad and drained from all of this
>this is all really hard to me
>i'm gonna try to get a job and pay you back what i owe you (she feels i owe her, and i agree on that)

cont.

And she says stuff like (some of this is said in sadness, some in anger)
>why don't you love me?
>so you have lied to me when you have said you love me and you want to make this work?
>oh so you don't have the energy for the relatinship but you do for a job that will probably leave you drained of energy? (suspected)
>so after all of this you are going to leave me when you have first utterly destroyed me?
>i'm not gonna protect you
>i'm going to tell my family and friends (and your family) what you did and i'm not gonna hold anything back
>i'm never going to recover from this or ever trust another man, i'm just gonna be alone from now on
>i'm gonna lose my job because of you (cause she will be so broken from this that she won't have the energy to go to work)
>you haven't even tried to get this to work
>i don't want anyone else, your the love of my life
>relationships takes two to work and you just freeload, you haven't even tried
>so you just wasted all this time? the last best years of my life? (as we are both in our late 30s)

During the last year i have also said, on the rare occasions that i talk about it that
>i am past my limit with our conflicts and that i can't take anymore and i don't want to take anymore. I don't want to live like this and keep trying to make this work. I want peace. This just isn't working out

And she has added to her things said, threatening to tell the police what i did and taking me to court


So, i feel, she always gets me to stay in this stupid debate on this and it continues until i give up and say stuff like
>i'm sorry and i didn't mean it, i said it cause i feel bad (or something like that)

And then she says that she gets why i did it but that it's abuse and i should stop. And i agree it probably feels like abuse to her. And i regulate myself and don't bring it up cause i know if i don't actually go through with it, it's just pointless torture. So here i am, wondering just what the fuck i should do.

cont.

So to further clarify. She has always wanted a relationship and that's important to her. If this doesn't work she won't be trying again with anyone. She often says during these debates that
>your my last shot, and i have told you this, many times.
So this is like her second long relationship, second time when she tried a long time to get something to work. This is my first relationship (and propably last)

>>34436522
Threatening your partner with break up is just a jerk move but if those are empty threats you never actually follow up with then yeah it's abuse.

>>34422504
>Is there a sum of money i can pay and be done with this?
There always is but that amount is non-negotiable and you must have the funds to cover it ready. You cannot ask a number and she gives a number and you say give me months or lets set up a payment plan. You ask, she thinks a day or two (she already has a number in mind) and you say I'll pay you on such and such day and I will move out.

The end but never get into any further discussion EVER. When the transaction is complete don't look back or try to justify anything.

>>34434661
>Don't back down. It'll be worse if you do

Yeah, i know. That's why i don't often "try to do it", if i don't go through with it it's just pointless torture. Abuse and being a jerk like
>>34436531
said


>Do not agree to talk about it or reconsider

This is going to be a hard one cause i wish we could talk about it, but her reaction have made that basically impossible. The only way really is say what i think and somehow leave.

Also. Our living conditions make it harder. We live at the moment in my apartment, before that we lived in her apartment. We usually do that a few months at a time but right now we have lived here for a record time. I know she is really tired after her work so that is one thing. I can also support our daily life better when we are at my apartment. So that takes some of the burden away from her and that is a good thing. But i suspect there is something else too. If we again lived at her place it would be much easier for me to break up with her, as i could just leave her apartment and go to mine. And i usually have with me just a backpack of my stuff as the stuff i actually need daily are pretty little and i can always get more stuff from my apartment if need be(which isn't that far). She on the other hand has filled my apartment with her stuff and made a mess of the place. I've told about the state of my apartment in one of my previous posts, here(The sinks came blocked about half a year ago, and the bathroom light broke. Other stuff has been like it has for years before that) :
>>34424521

cont.

We can somewhat operate in my apartment even with all the mess and the sinks that don't drain. Her apartment also has a kitchen sink that doesn't drain and the kitchen is in such a mess that we can't really live there at the moment.

So if i broke up with her, and she was still at my apartment, how exactly would that go? Same as it would go every other time. And i don't fully blame her from all this, how these things go. She has put 1 and 1 together and learned that this is how it just is in this relationship.

>i say i want to break up (which she thinks is just abuse and attempt of me take control when things are really bad)
>she basically manipulates me to backpedal
>and the relationship continues

So all that is logical. And then when things get calmer or later we get back to a conflict she can use that said abuse to fuel her rage and resentment. But as i have said many times here. I thought years ago that we should break up. And she made me change my mind. And since then it has just repeated.

Your problem, and hers, isn't the relationship. As a partnership you two fail. Late 30's man and woman can barely feed themselves and have a roof over their heads.

>>34436538
>There always is but that amount is non-negotiable and you must have the funds to cover it ready. You cannot ask a number and she gives a number and you say give me months or lets set up a payment plan. You ask, she thinks a day or two (she already has a number in mind) and you say I'll pay you on such and such day and I will move out.

As we are right now, living hand to mouth, there is no possible way i could have an amount like that ready, ever. Every month we pool our resources together and end at 0 at the end of the month. I should get a job, which i'm working on, as soon as i get myself into even a bit better of a mental state. And then i hopefully get some financial flexibility. But that's all just one struggle on top of these ones. (relationship issues, being forced to live in a hostile enviroment, always getting too little sleep...)

The reasonable way (to me) is exactly that there is a reasonable sum we agree on and we basically set up a payment plan.

Oh, and like every other summer, she has made plans for her holiday, and i'm a part of them. So that is also making everything more difficult. Still figuring out how that will look. I get that it's important to her and she needs the rest, but i don't know how this all is going to go

>>34435372
This thread helped or talking about it overall helped?


>>34435715
>She had various chronic physical and mental health issues

She has something like that too. And part of the mental ones are clearly because of this relationship.


>The mature thing would have been to seek outside help and break things off early

Yeah. It usually is like that, but i'm personally having a hard time on figuring out what is the necessary amount of outside help here.

>She's a good person at her core

Yeah. I feel it's like that with my gf but a lot has happened and both are getting triggered easily. And how things have gone in previous "break up attempts" has conditioned both of us to operate as we do. It’s not healthy.

>endlessly argue to where I would just give up and agree, even if I knew it was bullshit

Yeah. That sucks, to put it lightly


>I'm a lot better now, but that's not to say I'm good, but I was basically a walking dead man before. My life is slowly improving but I still feel damaged and I carry around a heavy feeling everywhere I go. Thanks for reading my blog post.

Glad to hear you got out. Keep up the good fight.

>>34436623
>She had various chronic physical and mental health issues
Holy shit I was in a similar situation (relationship not working, seemingly impossible for me to break up because guilt and other issues, bad dynamic but also manipulated) and she had that too

>>34436526
The reason she tells you these things is because of her escalation of fear.

>Do you realize what youve done
>I'll tell your family/my family
>I'm not gonna recover or trust anyone
>I'm not gonna protect you
>I'll call da police

It's all her way to try and make you feel what she's feeling - fear. She is afraid to be dumped and lose her sense of familiar. Because to her those 9 years are, for better or worse her emotional "home". And she is afraid of going emotionally homeless overnight that's what she is trying to convey to you, but she does it in a twisted way, presumably out of shame.

If she were a more honest girl she should just tell you "I don't want to lose you, I am afraid to lose you, I fear life without you. I love you." And it would probably actually evoke connection. But she doesn't do that presumably due to her issues with other humans (misanthropy/bad faith). She instantly assumes people are her enemy. She probably picked that up because once upon a time that's exactly what happened to her, I'm guessing at home or whatever. Maybe school who knows. Point is she got fucked around by some humans and she went a bit antisocial. But she still hoped (or hopes) to be in a better place in life and to touch that thing normies have, (love, happiness, security). Because she doesn't have that.

I know all of this because I'm the male equivalent of her. And what I can tell you is if you dump her, she ain't gonna kill herself. People like her find a way to survive. She even makes it clear herself, she tells you that love should be hard work and people should choose it and push through hard shit. She will do the same if she is dumped, she will push through it.

>>34436655
>She probably picked that up because once upon a time that's exactly what happened to her, I'm guessing at home or whatever. Maybe school who knows.

She has insinuated something like that. It happened before her last relationship, i presume

>>34436668
How's her parents? Does she speak of how they were to her growing up? Any signs of alcoholism or heavy nicotine use or drugs or any indication that her mommy and daddy hate each other? (Might be hard to tell from your PoV if they're the type to pretend to be functional when guests are over. But go back to hell when in private.)

>>34436671
No such thing. Never has it seemed like there was any problems

>>34436680
Weird. Because something must be off about her support network (family/friends) if she is that shit scared to get dumped. Humans might seem complex but they're simple, really. If you pretend being dumped is a fall, most people are scared when it hits but they know there's a safety net to catch them to break their fall. They don't fight the break up, they don't do what your GF does, because they know they will be okay.

People with no support network, they know if they are let go they ain't got the support safety net, they know they will hit the ground screaming. Some people know they do have a network but it isn't a safety network, it's an abuse network. And they know if they let go emotionally after being dumped, they fall into a bed of metaphorical spikes and that's why they become so very desperate to stay in a relationship, out of fear.
The break up won't help her in the short term, but long term it will help her. She'll have to learn one day or the other that love isn't about what you can get from someone else, it's about what you can give.

She'll be alright man. She'll do the Azula when you dump her though. A lot of anger fireworks, but just know it's because she's scared deep down and she hates herself for being scared. And when people hate themselves for being scared that translates into anger or fury or wrath.

She will be doing this but without the fire breathing lol
https://youtu.be/5clkiJ_azL8?si=oyhYfh1lW-CeyoFM

The she will stop and he will have to suck it up and figure out what she actually means in life. Doubt she will suicide

>>34436682
>>34436680
Oh and one last bit tbs my help with self understanding. Girls or guys like her, they seek relationships/love to try to escape pain. And they always find their opposite, the one who hopes for relationships to escape loneliness. Weird new age types call it "karmic relationships" and I don't think it's some magic or mystic shit. It just makes sense in reality, because the one who runs from pain will encounter the one who runs from loneliness every time because they can am give to each other what they both wanted. The one who was alone has no capacity to cause pain, at least not intentionally, and the one who was hurt by those who intentionally damaged them, they feel safe with that person.

But unfortunately humans are tricky little bastards. The one who runs from pain will actually begin to miss the pain, and they eventually bring it into the relationship, recreating it with their anger or mistrust. They do this unconsciously. And the one who ran from loneliness will pine for their loneliness, they will miss the days where no one cared, and they will try to escape the relationship to be with loneliness again. And the two who once "rescued" each other will become each other's enemy.

It's a meme as old as time friend. And happens way more often than you think.

>>34436761
One last bit that might help with self understanding*

Tl;dr: anxious attachment niggas really do chase avoidant attachment niggas.

>>34431968
what are your thoughts on this, op, if any

Next time she calls you a narcissist, ask her something like, “if you think I’m a narcissist, then why do you want to continue the relationship?”
To be frank I’ve never been in a similar situation like yours, but I think it’s something I would ask the other person if they were attacking my character. I figure she’ll either retract the insult, which can lead to asking her why she keeps calling you that, or cause her to short circuit a bit. Not sure if it’s a good idea, maybe some other anons can weigh in.

>>34437195
>just add fuel to the fire bro

>>34437195
>Not sure if it’s a good idea, maybe some other anons can weigh in.
If she's binged Dr Ramani Pop psych nonsense all day she will just claim asking her that would be "deflection" or "gaslighting" (both would be incorrect lol)

The BPD/NPD/Personality disorder theatrics is so divisive and explosive that once someone wrongfully thinks you are the heccin bpd or infamous npd, they won't stop, they'll constantly convince themselves you're the boogeyman or something. And if you have autism or adhd, they will notice your behaviours have a pattern or repetitive nature to them and they will convince themselves that they're seeing a personality disorder when it's not.

It really is one of the most disgusting social topics humanity has made trendy as of late. Everyone's ex is a BPD or NPD now. And the funniest part is if you ask these neurotic type of people "Can a narcissist ask themselves if they are a narcissist?" They short circuit lol.
"Yes they ask it because it's a question about themselves."

"Umm no because they don't care if they are or not."

"Yes because they have big egos and focus on themselves"

"Umm no because they have no sense of self at all"

These types of people can't even agree on their own reasoning.

>>34437124
Ah yes. Sorry i missed it.


>>34431968
Not sure if this user is a woman but the points they brought up were valid too. I know what the optics might be about this to some. And that just can't be helped.


>Every man is capable of living on his own, with or without guilt. So those things do not matter.

This is true. Or at least i hoped it would be. I'd like to say such things like the opinions of others don't matter to me, but they always affect me to at least some extent. Perhaps being a real man is to build yourself a tougher skin for stuff like that. That is certainly a worthy goal if one doesn’t have such a thing yet.


>There are two avenues. The unfulfilling relationship you feel is like a leash. Then there is the forsaken loneliness drenched in guilt


Yeah. I guess it comes down to that. Then again, guilt can be overcome. Sometimes i think like
>well, it is what it is
and then i just get over it and commit to thinking about other things and not it. But sometimes i fail at that (obviously). But that idea in itself isn't that complicated. Some times you can filter out the thoughts that ain't useful to you.

>it's not the worst **if** you have lots of hobbies. And I mean a lot.

Well thankfully i have a lot of interests like that. If i can get to where i want to be, there are a lot of things to keep me busy. Actually, that's definitely one of my strenghts going into it.

Anyway. Good that you are doing better than when you got out. It's all a process, towards something better. And sometimes nobody is there to pat you on the back, doesn’t mean that it wasn't a victory still. Fight on brother