>>34433205
once were doubt and the will to self considered evil.

>>34433205
The problem with SSRIs is that they work, that is what makes them an insidious drug. They will numb the fuck out of you, yeah. But they also rob you of the insight that sometimes fear is healthy, sometimes anxiety can alert you to something important, sometimes depression is an invitation to self reflect, sometimes anger truly is a sign to go and act. And SSRIs rob you out of all of that. They might protect your mind for a time, but they absolutely erode and dull your instinct.

>>34433205
There's no anxiety that can't be completely cured through introspection and meditation. Emotions come from thoughts, and your thoughts are entirely within your control. It takes practice and persistence, but you can be both drug and anxiety free if you put the work in. Anxiety grows when it isn't confronted and shrinks back when it's proven wrong, so just waiting around for anxiety to disappear on its own will never work.

>>34433205
>I have quit for 3 months and once again am in the same situation in what should be a very happy and bright time of my life.

I believe you. But who said you had to feel good about things when things are good? What law is there that says that? Which corner of the Universe is it etched that says "Thou must feel happy when things should be making you happy, or else!"

That isn't a real rule or a realistic expectation for any human to follow. You are allowed to feel conflicted, you are allowed to feel bittersweet. And those moments are not random, they're not maladies. What they are is they're usually the feeling you get when you are measuring your present with your last and lamenting what could have been, or you are measuring your present with the future and fearing the future may resemble your past. This is all normal to feel, and as shit as it is, it's the very thing that helps a human seek a balanced present. It's the minds way of applying pattern recognition into your emotional state.

If you villainize it, yeah you are gonna suffer. If you accept it, you will still feel bad. But it will be way lighter to carry on your shoulders. You become a strong person at the end for it. SSRIs only weaken people.

>>34433254
I agree (to an extent) but realistically what do these "instincts" provide me that is a benefit in the modern world? I am not a hunter gatherer. I live in an urban evironment where holding stable employment is much more important for survival than reading and physically internalising every remark and sign I get from others.

>>34433263
But it doesn't shrink. I can genuinely say I have pushed myself in ways most people wouldn't have to get out of my comfort zone and "face my fears". It doesn't work. Yes the panic attacks are irrational and the situations I may fear don't actually occur, I completely understand this. The actual discomfort and agony around panic attacks does not go away though and eventually it just results in making my world smaller to deal with the discomfort. In a simpler time, this would probably be the intended reaction - you survive by avoiding all threats and staying on guard. The issue I have is it is completely incompatible with modern life. If I had 0 responsibilities or dependents then maybe, but the reality is I need to be reliable and able to function in this shitty material world to support those who depend on me.

>>34433288
>employment is much more important for survival
for the survival of your miserable comfort.

>>34433299
For my mortage and family more. I understand your point, but what is the alternative? I don't think defaulting and failing what are considered basic duties of a man in society is going to bring me happiness.

I'm not trying to knock you guys, I get what your trying to say, and there is probably some truth to it for someone in their early 20s with 0 responsibilities. What I am really interested in is if anyone has personal experience or success quitting these medications while balancing real life commitments that a functioning adult might have.

>>34433288
>I can genuinely say I have pushed myself in ways most people wouldn't have to get out of my comfort zone and "face my fears".
Forcing yourself to do something you're afraid of while still being afraid of it isn't what I meant by confronting. I mean you have to trace it to the root and dispel the fear completely, by changing how you think about things. It's not enough to simply say "I know my fears are irrational". You have to completely dismantle the thoughts that created that fear in the first place and then rebuild. You have to know yourself before you can overcome yourself, and those fears come from you and nowhere else. You've been trying to change your outward effects, when you should have been dealing with the inward cause. Studying helps a lot when it comes to building those new thoughts, so if you're into reading you could look into Stoic philosophy or Buddhist theology for guidance.

>>34433205
Why don't you want to use sertraline? Are there any side effects for you? What's the problem? Just wake up and swallow the pill.
Maybe propranolol would be a better option.

>>34433308
it's called struggle anon. it's called not being afraid of having your blood spillt. it's embracing life itself for the perpetual death it brings upon you.

>going to bring me happiness
>balancing real life commitments

your body isn't rejecting those criteria because you evolved to survive in the literal jungle. embrace the metaphorical jungle.

>>34433378
Because I somewhat agree with the posts here (although what I need is the advice on how to go about embracing this, not the theory itself). I am conflicted between the idea that just because the medication works does not mean it is the best solution long term, whilst also trying to be realistic about stability and modern responsibility.

As with most topics, there is so much information online the is conflicting nothing makes sense. Any reasonable doctor will say the long term goal is to reduce the need for medication. My question is how, and has anybody had personal success with it?

>>34433205
>>34433205
>>34433205
You have to slowly dial back the amount you use. However, continuous usage will rewire your brain, and I'm not simply talking about a built substance dependency. SSRIs reduce your emotional reaponse to stimuli and your mind comes to expect this. Essentially, you'll have to readjust once you return to normal reactions to things. This process can be overwhelming and often leads people to return to SSRI use.

I can use another, similar affliction as an example: let's say your thyroid fails and causes you to spiral into a depression. You begin to succumb to overehelmingly negative lines of thought. This continues for some time until the root cause (a faulty thyroid gland) is finally identified and addressed. However, even after medical treatment, the depression persists. This is because years of negative thinking reinforces itself, rewiring the brain to generate unhealthy lines of thought with increased incidence. So now, you will need to actively identify and challenge your negative thoughts until you are, more or less, healthy once more. It is essentially the mental equivalent of a coma patient waking up to find their muscles atrophied. Once you get off SSRIs you will have to expend great effort to confront overwhelming feelings and react with measuredly. You will have to rehabilitate those muscles. This will be your great challenge.
Unfortunately, more time spent of these medications often makes this task harder.

You'll need to find and employ anxiety reduction strategies (deep breathing, grounding, etc.) and limit your exposure to potential stressors (multitasking, sleep disruption, sensory overload, etc.). Obviously, some of these can neither be avoided nor reasonably controlled (interpersonal conflict, health crises, work troubles, etc.)

I am assuming every other manageable variable has been taken care of here (friendship, exercise, diet, etc.)

>>34433205
Not permanently. Years ago I quit them for a while but eventually went back. I’m going to try quitting them again some time in May. I know it’s going to suck so I’m trying to take care of all the hard, stressful things I need to do before I start.

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I know this is stupid, but to me, quitting coffee was much harder.
I was on SSRI's but after a psych eval, i got diagnosed with ADHD. And my therapist explained many of my depressive/anxious moods can be traced back to that.

So i stopped taking SSRI's and started Adderall, which was an awesome turn in my life. Problem is: i was a heavy coffee drinker and mixing stimulants with stimulants wasn't a good idea. Specially because it was ruining my sleep.

After 9 years being a heavy coffee drinker (~1+ L daily), stopping it was horrible and took me several tries. There are coffee shops everywhere and everyone offers you. It's really hard.
And then there's the withdrawals, turbo-headaches and low mood.

I know, it's stupid. Coffee is usually harmless on its own, but fuck me it was really difficult to quit. Anyway, tangent aside, SSRI's were a breeze to quit, i haven't felt any side effects and i don't really "miss" them. Well, i don't really.

>>34434659
lmao.
>just start amphetamines OP. ull have no issues quitting your SSRI

>>34434684
Achktually, i had a 6-month gap between quitting zoloft and starting adhd meds. And during that period it was more of the same.

My point isn't recommending ADHD meds like lollypops, because these should be rightfully restricted for clinical cases. All i was trying to say is i felt no withdrawals quitting a year-long treatment

>>34434694
>restricted for clinical cases
you're only reinforcing OP's problem. OP is a "clinical case" for SSRIs, because without them he'd be bed ridden for months without seeing a way out. if you refuse to put faith into experiencing your very own emotions and thoughts properly, even if it means you lead a more complex and significantly harder life than NPCs who either lack your emotional depth or are drugging it away already, no one will ever be able to give you a reason why you should experience yourself clean. it's the same for amphetamines. you're a clinical case because you're unable to force yourself into activities make sense (currently -reason is temporal-) without taking them. you're giving up your individuality and unfathomable depths for a smoother ride, exactly like those with anxiety disorders on antidepressants.

>>34434723
Sure, that's a nice spiel and all, and I'd love to embrace my individuality and i find your words encouraging and free-spirited.

However, when you have a history of consistently failing societal expectations and its structures like school and a deeply troubled past, that is a little hard to do, no?
Sure, all these vibrant interests and quickfire wits can come about charming, but it doesn't matter when you missed an important deadline because you were "embracing" or "recharging" your emotional energies. You're fired.


And as a cherry on top, nobody cares if you're "unique" or need "accomodations". Either you fit in or starve. That's just the way it is.

Welcome to our beautiful and inclusive society.

>>34434741
It's not really about being vibrant and quick witted, as much as it's about being the master of yourself. Anyone who hasn't mastered himself is by necessity a miserable slave to something. Whether that thing is drugs, pleasure, attention or wealth doesn't matter, they're all enslavement. So what you're essentially doing is keeping yourself locked into a state of servile misery by refusing to master yourself, and allowing external things to be your master instead. You can meet your deadlines and live cleanly, it just takes self discipline, but self discipline is synonymous with happiness, so it's worthwhile no matter how difficult it is. "But that's hard to do" has never been a valid reason to avoid doing anything, especially when it's something that relates back to your health and well-being.

>>34434751
>You can meet your deadlines and live cleanly, it just takes self discipline
aren't you a slave to deadlines, cleanliness, and self discipline then?

>>34434771
No, submitting yourself to self-discipline means you're the master of yourself. You're aligning yourself with your higher nature, which is reason and prudence, while rejecting your lower nature, which is animalistic and driven by appetites. Meeting your deadlines and being clean are just favorable consequences or side-effects of having good behavior. No one can be a slave to self control because self control by its very nature is liberating. It means you have control over your own faculties, and refuse to be enslaved.

>>34434751
>self discipline
Like i haven't thought and tried (and still do) that, dummy.
Like I haven't used calendars, to do lists, timeblocks, kanban, mindfulness and whatever method i could come up with
Like i haven't been lashing myself all these years trying to be the best i can and categorically failing at important steps.
Fucks sake. Why am i feeding this troll?

>mastering oneself and living cleanly
Yeah, sure. Infuse my skin with chlorophylls and my feet with tree roots and I'll do it. Or give me time dilation device. I'll glady sleep 10 hours a day and peruse my own personal library i so desire to dwelve into everyday.

Something tells me you have a very cushy life and never had any significant struggles.
...And you think I'm a lifeless husk painfully unaware of the joys of freedom, choosing to be a drone in a system that wouldn't think twice to crush me in its gears.

Of course, dummy. I know how good it feels to be whimsically free, dummy. To explore the latent human potential, dummy. But you can't pay your bills by being Aristotle, dummy. Nobody's going toil for you to finance such lifestyle, dummy. And nobody cares if you're a self independent hermit, dummy. This isn't a communitarian society, dummy.

>>34434783
>rejecting your lower nature
is lower nature an accident? not part of your true self?

>>34434790
you'd always find excuses to reject your self anon. it is always the hardest thing to experience and the part of your self you're already conscious of (~your 'ego') will always find reasons to be scared of incorporating the part of you that's still in the shadow.
until you can will your self without even thinking whether it would starve you to death or not.

>>34434798
It's there intentionally and part of your true self, but its proper place is in submission to your higher self. A man who lets his lower self command his higher self is like a household that's run by the children, rather than the adults. Children are natural and they have a place, but their natural place is in submission to a higher authority because they aren't capable of discernment. Likewise, our appetites are not capable of discernment and must be bridled.

>>34434790
You've tried and failed to succeed, then decided to take an easier route. The point is that you'll never find the success that leads to happiness if you keep taking easy ways out instead of persevering. Why do you think I'm the troll when you're the one being aggressive, offensive and hostile?

>Something tells me you have a very cushy life and never had any significant struggles.
I was raised in an abusive household and lived in poverty for most of my life. I used to be so damaged by the experience that I'd scrub my skin for hours, until it bled. Assuming that anyone who has overcome their issues must not have had real issues is an egotistic coping mechanism on your part. You can't admit your own failures to yourself, so you assume that your trials must be the harshest in existence, and that nobody has to struggle other than yourself. Frankly, it's disgusting behavior, and it's the reason you haven't grown past your current immaturity. You can be better than this, you just have to try and stop lying to yourself.

>>34434856
>Easy path
Lolno, the easy path would've been claiming welfare and neeting or dying/being institutionalized.
You know... the fate of many neurodivergents.

Wouldn't it be funny if i was taking responsibility and being in charge of my mental health by following through treatment? Oh silly me, tehee.

>No treatment! Take responsibility and do it my way!!
You claim to be reasonable, but essentially what you're advocating is for people to stop seeking medical attention and follow whatever path you have laid out in your mind... If it has any semblance of one anyways.
... And you shame them, then get your feelings hurt because they rightfully reject your warped and uninformed views on the matter.
"Frankly, it's disgusting behavior"

>Rough times
I'm sorry you went through those things, abuse breaks people and often victims are unheard. But just because you are victim does not mean you're incapable of being an abusive person or hold toxic world-views. (cue, Maus)

That's all i have to say to your, there's nothing else this conversation can accomplish.
Best of luck and farewell,
- Anon.

>>34435033
>you can do it if you try is an abusive world-view
nah he's right, you just seriously need to grow the fuck up

>>34435033
>And you shame them, then get your feelings hurt because they rightfully reject your warped and uninformed views on the matter.
How can I be uninformed about something that I witnessed in this thread firsthand? I called your current and visible behavior disgusting, not your lifestyle. You can't pretend as if you didn't just make gross assumptions about another person for the sake of shielding your own inflated ego. You just did it, and everyone is a witness to that fact.

Hopefully you can mature to the point where you're able to take responsibility for yourself. Your behavior in this thread no doubt mirrors your behavior elsewhere. You should work on it before throwing stones.

>>34434856
you are the abusive household now with the child being subjugated to it, anon. the child is in you. the ruler of your household was wrong. children know better.

>>34435117
>Children know better
>Proceeds to take a fork to a live electric current

Yeah they sure do.

>>34435117
There's nothing abusive or painful about subjugating your impulses and appetites. The whole point is to avoid pain. Someone who eats in moderation gets to enjoy his meal in peace, whereas somebody who knows no restraint ends up making himself sick and full of regret. Reason always knows better than passion, just as a wise adult always knows better than a foolish child. The things I suffered growing up were the result of not having any wise adults in my life. I was a child being ruled over by children, and children are cruel.

>>34435143
>Reason always knows better than passion
if you just look back in history, what's "reasonable" goes through substantial transformation with every age. passion largely remains the same.
all people that actually made substantial changes to reason were able to, at some point, go against it and do what was, in their time, unreasonable.

>>34436463
>what's "reasonable" goes through substantial transformation with every age
no, it hasn't. reason is static. it's mathematical. you're conflating social trends for reason.