>>5128742
thats like saying farms are an evolutionary victory for cattle and sheep

>>5128742
>>5128765
It's mostly a question of whether they'd have survived without humans and how fucked they'd be now without humans

>>5128742
I'd say it's a victory until they're so domesticated they can't survive in the wild

>hot peppers went from being isolated to a few valleys in the Andes to growing on every continent except Antarctica
yup, I'm thinkin they won

>>5128742
you can call it a symbiotic relationship.

>>5128742
I want to BITE into those fucking shits like you wouldn't fucking believe. They can be glad to be in your pic and not near me rn.

>>5128742
>critters that will shit your seeds out nearby where you already grow don't want to eat you
>weird hairless creatures bring your seeds to grow you on entirely different continents because they think you're tasty
they wonnered i believe

>>5128742
Garlic smells great to me and mosquitoes hate it

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>>5129030
>chop some garlic for cooking with
>mfw the smell lingers on my fingers all day, no matter how many times I wash my hands

>>5128742
Well the main reason the dodo died out is that it reportedly tasted like absolute ass so nobody bothered domesticating them like we did chickens and co.

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>>5128742
>Is it technically an evolutionary victory (for it) if a plant gets farmed for food?
Not even technically, it's just an outright victory. Plants are semi-cultivated not just by humans but by other organisms, but like with all other things within human influence, cultivation with humans is just a process in nature that then gets turned up to 11. When we say "domesticated" it is not exclusively about animals as we domesticated plants first in anthropological history. Most of the biosphere adjacent to human habitation, not even directly within human living space, is comprosised of domesticated fauna. If you're an organism who has living conditions that occupy the same ideal range that humans are comfortable with, you are going to prosper wherever humans move to by extension because humans change local biospheres to opperate within their comfortable niché. We have half a dozen botanical classifications for these plants that grow alongside human activity with Archaeophytes, Kenophytes and Ephemerophytes which all fall under the classification of Anthropophytes.

>>5128765
It's not.

>>5129037
rub your hands on stainless steel under running water for half a minute. that usually fixes it because the chromium oxide on the surface steals the sulfur particles from your skin. look it up if you dont believe me.

>>5129030
All females on this planet hate it. Really makes you think

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baked garlic on some bread is so fucking good bros.
But it makes my farts the next day smell like absolute DEATH

>>5128742
The avocado would have gone extinct already without agriculture

>>5128742
>an evolutionary victory
its not like there are medals

>>5129109
>It's not.

>If you're an organism who has living conditions that occupy the same ideal range that humans are comfortable with, you are going to prosper wherever humans move to by extension because humans change local biospheres to opperate within their comfortable niché
talking out of both sides of your mouth are we

>>5129395
How am I talking out both sides of my mouth?

>>5129396
because you said that whenever an organism is getting farmed its an evolutionary victory, then immediately said that farms arent an evolutionary victory

>>5129416
First off, we are talking about plants. Second off, my statement is not at all exclusive to farming. See:
>We have half a dozen botanical classifications for these plants that grow alongside human activity with Archaeophytes, Kenophytes and Ephemerophytes which all fall under the classification of Anthropophytes
These include non-farmed/non-crop plants.

Second off, equating animals with plants is fundamentally non-applicable. One thing applying to one does not mean it exactly applies to the other.

>>5129417
>Second off, equating animals
Third off*

>>5129417
and i was talking about a more specific situation, rather than a general one, you cant just fall back on a wider point when talking about more specific situation, its almost moving the goalpost, and even then that point doesnt exclude farms, theyre still animals living in the same range as humans, we didnt go to antarctica to domestic penguins, it was the jungle fowl, or pigs because they were there
also its really not, we fucked up plants just as much as we fucked up animal genetics, it was just done faster with fewer ethical complications because its plant, it doesnt bleat, but that doesnt make what you did unnatural

File: GettyImages-1367692156-68ddab3104884560977b60b4b2b00865.jpg (127.7 KB)

>>5129457
The point is that the ethical consideration of plants v animals are different, that's why I dismissed it. My other point was also that you don't need to propergate something directly within a human biome because domesticated plants are not exclusively crops grown in a farm, they can be things like pic rel >>5129109 which provide no outright benefit to us but has tagged along where ever humans settle. Animals, which arn't plants, which are reared in farms, which is thetefore more niché than general domestication which can occour indirectly or adjacent, is not an equateble argument regarding plants benefitting humans being an evolutionary victory or not, because you are implying some level of ridiclous by highlighting how that logic could apply to farm animals which it does not. There is a different weighting there on the process of domestication and the organism in question.

If you want to make an arguement about natural vs unatural circumstances causing an organism to reproduce complicates the conclusion whether it is a sucessfull evolutionary victory is another thing though probably more at the root of the argument you want to articulate which, even in that instance, is not really a strong one because you have to define what is a natural process and what is not. You can't really argue everything involved with humans makes x process unatural because it's an arbitrary distinction and if we are talking about evolution an argument can be made that humans are part of the process.

>>5129457
>>5129486
If you made the argument that things such pigeons and rats are an evolutionry victory, you would be actually closer to the plant argument. But by zooming into farm animals specifically you distance how the two things can be equateble.

>>5129486
The majority of animals have no more "ethical" value than plants. They aren’t people and have very little relationship to the human psyche and human well being. They aren’t dogs, cats, and monkeys that partially interact with a healthy sense of instinctive empathy. They are naturally separate from us and are basically funny meat plants. Ethics have an aesthetic bias because ethics are a naturally evolved animal behavior and depend on the senses. There is no metaphysical horseshit beyond that and the supernatural does not exist - only a few superior species who developed truer math and more advanced manufacturing before we did (and also farm us for biomed products - you don’t notice and neither does a cow).

It is only when we push farming to the extremes of torturous conditions and high speed, high volume slaughter that what little short lived worth they have accumulates.

the domestication of livestock was actually a huge win for livestock up until the invention of the chinese piggery tower, which was only a minor setback and is due to be counterbalanced by the lost selective pressure causing their remaining intelligence to regress until they are fully adapted to their new niche.

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>>5129488
>the domestication of livestock was actually a huge win for livestock up until the invention of the chinese piggery tower
I had to look up to believe that. Multistory pig auschwitz

>>5129489
The pigs intellect produces little value to us or them, unlike the superior intellect and better honed social and linguistic processing of the somewhat comparable dog, and actually poses challenges for mass cultivators, so be assured the pigs suffering will be short lived on an evolutionary timescale. If they are not modified, the lesser health of more intelligent swine will result in them surviving poorly and not reproducing as well.

Also be assured aliens will not put you in a piggery tower. You are more like a chimpanzee to them and in the worst case scenario they still want you to think nothing of your real situation because it’s just better science if you can’t tell they’re interfering (most humans have yet to discover this simple but vital improvement for valid ethological studies). Now, other humans, on the other hand, will gladly put you in a piggery tower. They’re a pretty shitty and retarded species aren’t they?

>>5129489
I'm surprised they went through the hassle of painting the edges red. Such effort, so detail.

>>5129520
I'm just surprised they haven't installed suicide nets.

>>5129259
That is delicious, really need to make that again.
My recent favorite garlic related recipe is filet mignon + shallots and garlic. You cook the filet mignon, then cook garlic and shallots in butter for awhile, then put douse the filet mignon with the buttery mix for awhile. Its so good.

I fucking love garlic I eat that shit raw

>>5129657
same, it smells and tastes great

>>5128779
Not really. It's a question of their environment. They would have a particular niche in their ecosystem, but domestic plants and animals have human society as their ecosystem. Their ability to reproduce is entirely based on human interest, which their flavor chemicals provide for, so they are successful in their home environment, which is now domestication. An individual plant has kind of a grim survival outlook but that's true of everything in nature, while on the population scale they are extremely secure.

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