low carbohydrate or low fat diets can be summed up to simply restricting krebs cycle either way and in low fat cases to somewhat restrict randle cycle
Both lead to lipolysis anyways, but the problem with low fat high carbohydrates is that the only foods that are full of micronutrients and have a decent macro profile like milk (anything other than whole uht milk or raw milk will have an abysmal micro profile, unless dubiously "reinforced") or whole yogurt or nut butter (peanut, almond etc) or chocolate are in the area where you're getting both fats and carbohydrates at once sometimes almost equal ratios so they wont always fit your macros. If you take out the fat you take out micronutrients.
I guess the preference for keto is to incite you to eat more whole animal foods to get your micros dialed in, but personally im not a fan although im not against it because i find restricting fruits or honey weird
CICO denies any of this is relevant and assumes your body is a bomb calorimeter that treats everything that goes into your stomach indiscriminately and cico midwits will just tell you "akchually that's just increasing the "CI"". They legit think we can solve fever by "raising or lowering the temperature" and just dip the person into cold water tada celsius in celsius out biology doesn't exist goy you should only use thermodynamics

>>77214481
You do it in conjunction with general cico.
Keto metabolism is a bit higher than carb metabolism so there's an adjustment there. But you still have to excrete more molecules than you eat. Keto is just generally good for heath and satiety

It’s a lot less mentally taxing than cico. It works with many people’s biology. If your blood sugar and insulin spikes lead to extreme hunger then keto just removes all that shit and makes dieting easy. You also lose a bunch of water weight at the start so it’s very motivating in that way. But long term you will need carb refeeds to perform your best imo and it also just gets really fucking old. If you find a good way to cycle keto dieting that fits with your lifestyle it might be optimal for you, worth a try

>>77214481
>why would you do it over regular CICO?
It works because of CICO. Also it makes you lean very quickly because you lose water weight, and it enhances your cognition. People also find that they don't feel drowsy post-mealtime

>does it have real benefits beyond appetite reduction -> weight loss?
All diets are an appetite management game.

>what are the main downsides?
Until you're fat adapted it's hard to perform as well in the gym as when you have carbs. It's also hard on your social life.

>>77214629
>It works because of CICO
Kek

>>77214481
No reason except for restricting certain foods makes you more mindful and prevents you from snacking.

The water weight you lose can also help with motivation.

>>77214481
Correlates to heart disease and colon and bowel cancer if consuming lots of red meat

>>77214481
>why would you do it over regular CICO?
1. Because you don't get hungry.
2. It's healthier.
3. You become fat adapted (which is a lot better than being blood sugar adapted).

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>>77214481
Keto works. CICO doesn't.

>>77215081
For the gorillionth time, those studies linking red meat to cancer failed to isolate variables properly.
Subjects of the study who ate red meat were also more likely to smoke, (and be less health/wellness minded overall) leading to a correlation of higher cancer rates.
Vegetarians will also quote these studies while eating goyslop "meat replacements"

I've lost weight doing both, keto works mostly because youre less hungry due to having more stable blood sugar producing less ghrelin, also fat and protein is highly satiating causing you to eat less overall. It literally does come down to calories
The benefit is that most fatties lack self control and have an all or nothing mentality so a restrictive diet where you can't even have a little bit of carbs ends up being easier to stick to.
the down side is you are thirsty as fuck all the time and you are absolutely worse in the gym without carbs

>>77215160
In order for this image to have any validity whatsoever, they'd have to post how much calories they are eating (CI) and how much calories they are expending (CO). People on Keto do this whole "unlimited calories!" bullshit and then only eat like 1,500 calories a day. Which, by the way, is CICO.

>>77215377
Point is calories as a unit of measure dont matter

>>77215404
Calories matter, but obviously if you try to only eat 1500kcal of fast food per day you will end up binging. What you eat is important for satiety, counting calories is important for tracking and controlling your intake. It's still going to be imprecise, but much better than eyeing it out and it's the only way to lose weight fast without binging because you ate too little

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>>77215377
You can eat more calories on keto and will still lose weight. I don't know why anyone would bother measuring (estimating, actually) calories in their food. The calorie measurement has nothing to do with obesity. CICO is a scam.

>I expected that even though I was eating 2500 calories a day, an increase of 500 calories a day for me, that I would not gain much weight, I already knew that eating fat and protein doesn't make you fat.
>The biggest and most unexpected change was losing so much body fat in the 30 days. I lost 19.6 pounds by the end of the month
https://ketogasm.com/the-bacon-experiment-interview/

>>77215666
>ketogasm.com
topkek btfo by your own reply

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>>77215668
You win. I cannot rebut vague criticism of a domain name.

I will now have to use the "new concept in weight control" (cico) advertised to people by sugar information inc in 1957. It won't help me stay lean but at least I will be doing what literally every mainstream organization, food manufacturer, and pharmaceutical company want.

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1 - It's a very well established scientific fact that elevated insulin levels block the body's ability to burn fat (lypolisis).
If your goal is to lose BODY FAT, not just any body weight, you need to keep low insulin levels, or you'll struggle forever.

2 - Our body doesn't produce the correct type of insulin to deal with dietary carbohydrates.
Our insulin rises too slowly to match the blood sugar spike caused by carbs, and remains for long after they're gone, causing tiredness.
The type of insulin we produce is appropriate to deal with the blood glucose spike caused by consuming large amounts of animal protein (meat).
This is proof that our biology is that of an obligate carnivore animal.
Here's a doctor explaining it: https://youtube.com/shorts/ihJDXwOnpxM

3 - Carbohydrates rot your teeth.
Without modern dental hygiene technology (toothpaste, toothbrushes, etc.) your "normal balanced diet" would result in multiple rotten and lost teeth before 30.
That alone is all the proof you need that carbohydrates are not a part of your biologically-mandated natural diet and are harmful.

4 - Chronically elevated insulin bloats you and makes you retain water.
A lot of the "body fat" that people try to lose with a non-ketogenic approach is just water retention that you simply cannot lose without dropping the carbohydrates. Picture related.

>>77215710
This is true.

>>77215674
Nta but I think anyone whose dietary habits are so out of whack that he frequents sites dedicated to specific elimination diets has absolutely zero credibility when it comes to bulking and cutting.

>>77214481
Keto doesn't even reduce your appetite unless you're fat. When I do it (<13%), I am just ravenous all the time.

I'm angry because I wasted months with this retarted diet.

>>77215666
>You can eat more calories on keto and will still lose weight.
That's objectively false. Keto dieters are just too stupid to properly count calories.

I've done it myself and Keto/carnivore were the fastest way to gain body fat.

>>77216379
Frequents?

>>77217770
Nice try, vegan.

>>77217791
>ketolard doesn't know what it means to frequent a place
Indian?

>>77217805
Who are you saying frequents what website? Based on what evidence?

>>77214481
>why would you do it over regular CICO?
lack of willpower
>does it have real benefits beyond appetite reduction -> weight loss?
yes, it's very hard to go over maintenance with keto foods
>what are the main downsides?
headaches, temporary hair loss

>>77214503
>If you take out the fat you take out micronutrients.
lol what, only worthwhile high micro high fat foods are eggs/fatty fish, rest is like, organ/lean meats, beenz, whole grains, great micros/macros.

>>77214481
>over regular CICO
no
do both

>>77217995
It's even harder to go over maintenance with high carb food. Only thing that makes it easy to go over maint is fat+carb combo. Start eating wonderbread with jelly, you're gonna get bored after a couple slices.

>>77219852
as a certified sweets enjoyer, i can confidently say you're talking out of your ass

I'm back on keto and I didn't get the energy/brainfog you are meant to get.
Took about 2 weeks to get my shit together, literally.

I'm not doing dairy this time and so far it's bland as fuck.
I'm basically eating meat and eggs, olive oil and vegetables.

Currently trying to perfect psyllium husk buns.

Just remember, boost your electrolytes, make sure you hit the DRI, get supplements.

>>77214481
Keto allows better insulin control, since your blood sugar is not constantly being spiked by more carbs than you need. As an aside, anytime you eat anything (even a pure protein and fat meal like a steak) the body produces a certain amount of stored glucose, so there is always some inslin release when you eat. But if you dont purposefully eat carbs/sugar you dont wind up with more blood sugar than what you actually need.

All of this emans that on a keto diet, youre insulin is better controleld and lwoer. Lower insulin levels mean that ghrelin and letpin (the humger and satiety hormones) are better regulated, as well. This means that if you have lower circulating insulin levels, your body can better receive/intepret ghrelin and leptin signalling, which means you dont necessarily become as ravenously hungry and prone to overeat.

CICO is king. The law of the jungle. BUT if you want to make it a little easier to stay in a caloric deficit, by not constantly being hungry, then overeating, (and threby maintaing a deficit) KEto can help get your insulin and then your other hormones in line.

In short, keto can be an easier way to comply with CICO than high car/low fat. AND if you do keto with real meat/eggs and real vegetable, your nutrition (vitamins, minerals, protein, co-nutrients) is all on point.

I tried multiple different approaches over the course of a year to lose ~40kg and do recomp and keto/low carb just werks. Naturally I want to eat more protein but also need fats for hormone support and energy. I also wanted to keep a strict deficit and at the end of the day anything with high carb amounts contribute next to nothing to my protein, fat and micro nutrient targets.
>need protein
chicken, beef, lamb, fish, eggs and so on
>need fat
the above has all the fat required (if i have chicken thighs instead of breast) and i can also incorporate dairy
>carbs
rice, pasta, bread, potatoes etc have nothing but carbs
But I thought "shit, how will i get the energy needed to get through the day AND hit the gym without carbs?" yeah turns out you get energy from fat and it's a more linear delivery mechanism (i get steady energy throughout the entire day). with carbs, i was spiking all over the fucking place. i also found that having a carb heavy pre-workout did nothing for me
I lost the 40kg doing keto and being in a deficit. the deficit happens naturally since i'm eating higher satiety food anyway. i have since transitioned to a low(er) carb diet since i just enjoy having the occasional punnet of fruit and some cottage cheese. i genuinely believe low carb is the most natural human state

>>77219846
Organs are usually high fat
>/lean meats, beenz, whole grains, great micros/macros.
These all have shitty micros and only lean meat has good macros here, why are you such a jew ?

i was always wondering who needs keto when you can just fast?
like 3 years ago i lost 97 pounds just fasting alot. got down to 159 pounds within a year. without exercise or counting my calories.

I only got fat again because i didn't count my calories.

>>77214481
Do you want to lose fat? Eat less, keto, meto, seto, doesn't matter.
Do you want an excuse why you didn't eat less? Do keto, lose a few pounds of water, blame it on carbs because you ate them and held water again, keep repeating this cycle while also blaming genetics, hormones, jews and everything inbetween.

>>77214481
You should do it with cico if your goal is weightloss. The perk is don't feel hungry or have chaotic blood sugar. Hell you can drop out most of the fat and being 800 kcal a day and not feel hungry. The downside is you feel cold a lot and dehydrate easily unless you're a salt fiend.

>>77220117
>>77220851
If you have issues with carbs you're prediabetic or diabetic. I get brainfog if I eat cheap sweets but otherwise can live off of bread fine for days, I legit cannot believe healthy people get "crashes" from carbs, seems like an american "raised on sugary cereal" thing.

>>77220854
Liver/kidney/lung/heart are like 5g fat per 100g depending on animal. Beenz and whole grains have great micros and macros. Not to mention phytonutrients. Why are you retarded and or lying?