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/gq/ Infographic Emporium:
https://imgur.com/a/gq-infographic-emporium-1-00-1lZ5xw6
Legacy Infographic Reserve: https://imgur.com/a/k-infographic-reserve-AIKzwWF

>Last time on /gq/, a man bought a pimp cloak. Another man wanted updates on the pimp cloak. Someone put a pimp cloak on a food delivery robot, Radovan got radios, and Hesco never tested M993 at any of their plates.

>QUICK ARMOR GUIDE 2.161
CODE: * = active NIJ-cert, ^ = NEEDS SOFT ARMOR, DND = do not drop, ** = military.
>Special Rifle Threat (M855A1, no M80 <44mm BFD):
Budget: Hesco T212 or L211
Mid-Range: Hesco M210
High-End: Hesco U210 / U211, LSAPI**, or Tencate CR-6450SA.
>CONUS Minimum (M80, M855, M193):
Budget: Expired Hesco 3611C, surp SAPI**^, or Gilliam 6001
Mid-Range: Hesco 3612* or 3810*
High-End: Hesco 3811* or 3811LV^DND
Elite: Used Cercom CER-EMH**^
>CONUS Medium (M80 + M855A1 or BZ API):
Budget: Used Protech 2120-5
Mid-Range: Hesco 3411* or LTC 19513
High-End: LTC 28780**
Elite: VelSys PBZSA** or LTC 28791** or Hesco SC3812
Elite-Plus: Used Ceradyne MH3 CQB**^DND (10x M995) or used Cercom CER-SOPS**^
>CONUS Optimal (M855A1 + M80A1):
Budget: Highcom 3S9 (SAPI-cut)
Mid-Range: Used LTC 28550** / 28590** or Highcom 3S9M* (SAPI-cut!)
High-End: Used LTC 28595**
Elite: Used LTC 28570** or VelSys TSA**
Elite-Plus: Tyr XHA4/S6/T(DND) or GEN 6 LTC TSA
>Level IV / CONUS High (.30-06 M2AP):
/pfg/: Used Protech 2014G or Gilliam 1023
Budget: Hesco 4403* (bare minimum)
Mid-Range: Hesco 4601* (+ Level III) or surp ESAPI**^ (REV. G-J preferable, adds M995 / 3x M2AP vs 1x)
High-End: Hesco 4800(DND), 4800LV^DND, or Protech 9812-R1(DND)
Elite: Tencate CXP-800 SA or Ceradyne SOF ESAPI MK.II**^DND
>Level IV+ / CONUS Extreme (Various)
Budget: Protech 2230 (fast M2AP, $300/set used)
Budget-Tungsten: Gilliam 8002 (.300 Winmag Swiss P AP)
Mid-Range: Adept Colossus (7.62x51 Swiss P) or REV. C XSAPI**^ (M993)
High-End: Rev. D XSAPI**^ (M993+)
Elite: Ceradyne 96034** (7.62x51 Swiss P) or ECSAPI (M993)

OP is pretty faggy today won't lie.

>>64893419
OP is always a faggot

Friendly reminder dripfags are a direct result of airsoft kids growing up into real steel.

Chinesium plate infographic when?

>>64893426
I knew the AI magazine pic would make this a fast bread.
>>64893442
thermals and neon tape due to multicam blue on blue enable it, IMO.

The question is, armor autism or dripfaggotry. What is the future of /gq/? Call it.

>>64893459
Soon as they release the 2.0 version of the pimp cloak with MSAP shoulder plate pockets in >>64893397.

>>64893463
it has nothing to do with OP pic
at has to do with rather there's a good gear discussion or if it's just armor autist posts

>>64893470
It's statistically proven that AI magazine op pics make the threads fast af. Also we've got like twenty armor infographics and people are asking for more. It's... strange.

>>64893463
>The question is, armor autism or dripfaggotry. What is the future of /gq/
those aren't futures...
I'm praying for a revolution of electronic optics creating cheap quality night vision and thermals to carry /gq/ into the next generation
nylon and armor innovation has stalled pretty hard and I don't know that there is anywhere for it to go

>>64893477
I actually agree completely. Armor HAS stagnated. The top shelf plates of today are just the top shelf plates of five years ago but about 5-7% lighter. The truth is that armor ceramics have been the same for decades and we're just getting incremental weight reductions from slightly better UHMWPE backers.
As for Nylon, everybody is figuring out moar frag armor by the looks of it.
>cheap quality night vision and thermals
and here the Chinese come to save the day!

>>64893463
>What is the future
Hopefully death if that's the only future. If you retards goal was to kill /k/ you're doing a good job.

>>64893488
The entire board? Sheesh. If we post the RMA sucks infographic ten more times is that gonna kill 4chan?

>>64893488
>general that has been here for over a decade is killing /k/
>not the no gun euros turning every thread into retard tier Ukraine war shit posts

>>64893504
>>64893488
>inb4 but but but the armor autism!
Armorus Maximus, the first armor autist, was spreading dreams of .338 Lapua rated Hexar or some shit in 2016 and things were just dandy.

>>64893504
Nice reading comprehension retard. You're a /bag/ shitter aren't you?

>>64893535
>the armor autism!
Called it, kek. Some flavor of armor autism has been here a decade. The autists have changed, but the 300 post debates on HESCO VS RMA or MUH MEHLER VARIO or IS HIGHCOM SHIT remain.

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>>64893535
I read what you wrote, dont get upset at me for not knowing what you meant, what are you my ex?

>>64893542
>remain
That's my point. If our future is this forever than I would take death. I made the mistake of replying to (you?) earnestly and got a wall in response unrelated to my post about bullshit. /nvg/ is dead and we have to take refuge here and you can't even have a conversation about anything without
>*insert literal walls of nonsense about body armor)
or
>DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP
I would rather this thread not be an extension of /arg/.

>>64893548
Then, uh, let's talk about night vision?
Gotta start a conversation to have a conversation. I'm eternally annoyed I bought a BTS35 when I could have waited five months to buy a Oneleaf.

my pimp cloak hasn't shipped. :(

>>64893584
The trash sniper awaits the p90.

>>64893689
I should really get a ruger 5.7 but doc roberts said the terminal ballistics are bad.

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>>64893689
>>64893693
https://x.com/KelTecOfficial/status/2025919697896821096

Keltec has you covered
>>64893559
Burris never a good choice

>>64893703
I got it for $800. Works great, just saying I could have saved up another $600 and gotten a oneleafio that mogs it with a 640 sensor and no NUC. Plus USB-C and an LRF.

>>64893713
can 1 leaf work as a clip on or is it stand alone only?

>>64893735
Standalone

>>64893735
alternatively, how good is quick detach for keeping zero? I'm sure it's fine for red dot but what about a high magnification scope on a one piece mount?

>>64893751
Depends on how good the mount is. It's China so no benefit of the doubt. Some people do report the mount is kinda shit and needs threadlocker to avoid zero drift. The MARS thermal is very market disruptive so I'd wager a good amount of the complaints are competitors doing guerilla reverse marketing.

>>64893703
Gimme a KP50 with an FRT, jungle mags, and 100 rounds of tungsten AP from Stiletto and we're in business.

FYI, Protech Level III PE plates (no M855!) on Gunjoker for $300 a set.
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1151503903

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https://www.dvidshub.net/video/996573/day-one-us-army-best-drone-warrior-competition
>>64893807
>No 855
This guy wants a plate with nuffin??

>>64893947
M855 is dependent on velocity, so if you're only up against ARPs you're not going to get blasted through like a 20" musketoon.
That's straight up cope though and there's only four pounds between a set of these and a set of LTC 19513s that reliably stop A1.

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>>64893758
I meant more my 3-18x scope, if i swapped it for the thermal at night, could I swap it back without having to rezero?
would need a new mount because current is non-quick detach and chinesium

>>64893992
Uh, maybe? 100% depends on the mount.

>>64893693
Out of a pistol it doesn’t have much appeal. They are cool, but most are built like trash. I haven’t had a chance to handle a dedicated five seven but my expectations are low. The s&w was horrendous.
>>64893703
My god. It’s beautiful. I kept waiting for the trailer to switch to a porn scene. Also, did they fuckin give the briefcase to Jeffrey Epstein at the end there?

>>64893703
so it's a P50 with a faster reload?

>>64894006
Yeah I'm liking this KP50. Stick a thermal red dot on it. Cyberpunk blaster.

>>64894033
Yeah and you can jungle mag it so you get 100 rounds on the gun, so it's easy to grab and go.

>>64894034
Drops the mag as a courtesy to aid in clearing its inevitable jams.
>>64894037
It’s like they saw the p90 mag couplers and wanted their own version.

>>64894122
This calls for a double jungle. 200 rounds. Make it like those revolver shotguns and just have the mags rotate clockwise.

>>64894140
We just solved the optic height problem on the p90.

I have come to the conclusion Longfri KEKS RMA with the 4SICMH vs the 1165 GEN2.
Weight: 5.7lb for a 10x12 nominal vs 5.5lb for a 9.5x11.5 nominal with bottom corner cutouts. If the 4SICMH used 1165 sizing it'd be 5.2lb.
Cost: $299 for the 1165 vs $349 for the 4SICMH.
Drop testing: Neither is tested but the 4SICMH has at least plausible thickness for foam.
Both are multi curve, neither is certified, the RMA is thinner but that comes at the cost of durability. The 4SICMH has a silicon carbide strike face versus Alumina so it should also have better performance against M995, for example. IMO, Longfri wins.

Also Tacticon can't pay the bill for their website host or something. Maybe they should have pawned their "how to dropship like a boss!" classes harder.
>CONTACT YOUR HOST TO GET THIS RESOLVED
https://tacticon.com/product/level-iv-8-lbs-multi-curve-armor-plate-taspiv/?

FUCK YEAH I LOVE LUGGING AROUND 30LB OF SHIT MINIMUM WHILE BEING ON MY FEET FOR 14 HOURS STRAIGHT

>>64894208
>the strongest UHMWPE plate user

Wait, I must have missed the memo. Tacticon is completely bust. Damn. Any news on the RMA lawsuit besides the gun accessory company that was their codefendant settling?

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>>64894033
Basically this company made a p50 conversion and keltec ripped it off
https://stincusa.com/product/st-50-fcg-for-keltec-p50
>>64893967
>M855 is dependent on velocity
Id argue its less dependent on velocity than 193 or copper by way of mild steel core but you do you

>>64894370
Yeah, but that's not reflected in test data for PE plates going off Buff results. Otherwise SS190 would be able to pop weaker SRT type PE plates reliably and it does not UNLESS it's going out of a long barrel. Think PS90. Where it gets tragic is M855A1 being able to clear PE SRT plates like the Tac 11 ARK when subsonic.
Praying the enemy somehow doesn't have a barrel longer than 10.3" is just asking for trouble and all PE plates remain niche because of that, even the new M855-rated breed because we don't know how they do conditioned.

>>64894389
PS90, lpvo, light sniper confirmed.

>>64894408
awww yeaaah

Also, if the ARPs ever get A1 then yeah PE is le toast

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>>64894414
ARP need a definition for this one. Ar… pistol? For a moment I thought you were talking about tungsten 9mm major. Imagine…

>>64894505
fuck yeah brother, tungsten DM91 or 7N31M and pump that shit up. Will beat Level III PE!

>>64894317
Wait, what happened to Tacticon? Looks like they're gone.

Also lol at this thread being like 15x faster and more interesting than the last one. (Except for the guy crying about armor discussion, lol.) I guess AI OP images are the way to go.

>>64894533
From my understanding the flip flops guy, the head honcho, left and the company owed a lot of people money, changed their warranty, wasn't shipping, and finally gave up the ghost.
Similar thing might happen to Trex now that the "star" is gone and the black powder useless breaching charges are in.
>>64894536
Yeah I dunno what it is, we're at over fifty posts like the DOW is over 50k.

>>64894536
I just happened to catch this one with no considering of image. Hoping to get back into swing of projects which some kept me more on ar side. Is good to be back with fast thread

I'm waiting on my damn pimp cloak

>>64894543
Did being sued by Crye have anything to do with it?
> https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/us-dis-crt-ed-new-yor/116587530.html

>>64894579
Yeah that'll do it. Buff was shilling their TASPIV03 plate damn hard back in the day. No more of that $650 8lb alumina-fiberglass business.
Makes me wonder about RMA depending on how the Buffalo fedshow lawsuit goes. I don't think the suit is currently going their way so to speak but I could be wrong.
I'd buy plates sooner than later if anyone here hasn't already. If RMA is found liable or settles out that creates a precedent which could scare more armor companies away from civie sales.

I jist shot my panfs

>>64894758
What snorting boron carbide dust does to a mfer

>>64893442
Boring bitch ass multicam kid

>>64893442
>real steel
Real chinese pot steel.

>>64895520
There is no pot steel in a pimp cloak

>>64893397
How do I achieve this level of drip?

>>64895652
Aliexpress

>>64893397
w2c mag fed revolver carbine pistol?

I want to get one of those ops core raillink arc rail FMA clones off of aliexpress for my helmet but then I'd have to grab another fucking helmet cover since mine has a built in battery pouch on it. Fuck this semen slurping hobby.

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>>64895652
>>64895773
Here it is, on sale!
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256809682841789.html?

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>>64895786
The waves flow... the times change... the shit you need to buy becomes different. Such is the way of the modern import-export samurai.

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>>64895779
Aliexpress secret links young gaijin. You must build honor with sellers so they ship you real guns but not. Aliexpress and alibaba use secret link system for special customers that are trusted with the bullshitto code.

>>64895892
Nah I'm good, it's probably not a good idea making my helmet setup even heavier than it already is, unless I want to end it all by breaking my neck

>>64895923
Embrace the neck surgery by shady doctor mr cheap in chungking mansions. he make your neck ronger.

>>64895923
I bet my helmet's heavier than yours.

>>64897287
Probably, I'm just using a bump setup with 2 pvs14s and it's fucking me up. I can't imagine how bad it would be with a ballistic helmet.

>>64895892
did you really need to use ai to put text on top of an image

>>64897292
yeah

>>64897291
Counterweight? Sounds front heavy. Also switch out pads to PGD. Just saying, people are rolling "IIIA" helmets and quads without glaring issues so there must be another factor in play.

Also new mini thermal from GOYOJO, 256x192 trash sensor, 50hz refresh, and PIP dual digital night vision and/or thermal multispectral, $516.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256811495319485.html
Sensor specs are bad but this could be useful as a subgun thermal for a KP50 or somethin'

>>64897828
>mini thermal
DNT has a good thermal optic which is 100 dollars more. Why would you ever buy this?

>>64897932
>to save $100 that can go towards a $100 pair of GTEAGLE LEVEL IV PLATES ON ALIEXPRESS SONNY!
The Hydra? $800 last I checked, same (bad) sensor res, and this doohickey is also digi NV so you can see through glass and don't get merked by umbrellas.

China's got some new Level IV (allegedly) plates on the block. Single-curve boron carbide + PE from Tactical Xmen. $490 for the set, 1.1" thick, 5.7lb.
Major case of believe it when I see it, not only because B4C is expensive but also because 5.7lb is more SiC territory. Seems very similar to the 4SICMH.
https://www.tacticalxmen.com/TacticalXmen-Lightweight-Level-IV-Plate-Rifle-Rated-Body-Armor-2Pcs-p1732064.html
They claim no cheat ring. It's thick so I think the ceramic is thin and the PE is doing more of the work. Drop protection is iffy.

>>64898502
Tactical X-Men has always been Z-list Chinesium. This is probably a low-grade SiC plate that, uh, might work. Maybe.

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>>64898537
>Z-list
Damn man I was making the Chinese plate infographic still thinking we only went down to D with a hypothetical E-grade for shit they won't even list on Alibaba or MIC because it's such lawsuit bait. The GTEagle rice paper crack arrestor, visible gaps between tiles, ceramic tile array w/ cheat ring plates are D bordering on E because they removed the III and IV from aliex.
>anyways
Specs on the Tactical Wolverine's nuts match the Longfri 4SICMH roughly (same weight for a 10x12, but the 4SICMH is thinner at 0.9" vs 1.1" or 1" for the Xmen plate, they aren't consistent). However, it's about half the price of the 4SICMH which is a major red flag. Looks like a D-list shitter copying homework from a better Chinese company, or maybe this is some kind of rewrapped factory second since the 4SICMH is actually kinda required to perform since it's commonly sold in the US. Longfri's best plate on paper.
Otherwise, my guess is that it's more PE, less ceramic, has some nominal sizing chicanery, and they do what a lot of the shittier Chinese companies do and they only test against 7.62x54R Type 53 API without working the velocity up to proxy M2AP at 2,910ft/s properly. In other words, it might handle M2AP at original WW2 spec out of a .30-06 (think 2,750-2,800 or so).

>>64895808
Your link is broken and I wand Desert TS anyway.
>>64895953
I swear to God, Canadians l99k like girls. Also, fuck mods who ban legitimate questions.

>>64898985
Link works fine, just checked. Ask the seller if they can whip up a custom for you based on a pattern. It'll probably cost extra.
Worth noting there's like ten sellers of the same pimp cloak and they were all delayed until after lunar new year, so there's a central pimp cloak 996 somewhere and you might need to trace actual manufacturer on Alibaba or MIC if the Aliex middlemen won't play ball.

I need to figure out this secret link game hardcore alibabamaxxers keep talking about. I've got platinum status so I should be a prime customer.

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>guy speaks to RMA rep about the 4SICMH plate using silicon carbide and PE for $350/plate
>RMA says at that price those specs are impsosible to achieve
>four years later
>RMA comes out with a cheaper plate using heavier, worse ceramic that does the same thing (it really doesn't) but at even LESS weight!
Damn, that didn't age well for shit.

>>64899023
>Link works fine
I had to physically cut and paste text into browser bar for the path. I am very upset at Bill 'Satan' Gates, right now (more than ususal). Spoonful for your patience: https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256808261869116.html

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>>64899109
Saaaar do not disrespect mister gates saaar he is of great needfulness to the microsoft tech support center without him we would be unemployed and living in Mumbai shoveling shit which would then be deepfried in delicious red curry paste with chili pepper. We call it Dung 65.
For this transgression if we ever meet in the super the market in Amerika saaaar I will shoot you with Bryna revolver pic related it is very nasty sir you will get chili pepper in your mouth please call 1-800-FUCKYAMUDDA to redeem vagene cream to calm your senses.

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>WELCOME HOME...
>RISE...
>DIMITRI PATEL
>MASTER OF THE PIMP CLOAK
>CAPTAIN OF THE SECOND AVENUE DUNKIN
>WARDEN OF T-MOBILE

This is why thread is now altspeed. Back to gear, anyone use the minimalist chest rigs like dank robber? Worth it?

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>>64899341
Not armor related

>>64899356
On the contrary. If I used it as a placard I will have gained additional armor rating. Check mate. (But no re: is it good for light shit/juggling mag type with insert or is they better?)

>>64899363
Damn u rite. Do you plan on reenacting the bank robber from Heat?

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>>64893442
how do I know you're a zillenial

>>64899363
Keeping it real real witcha lil nigga. It doesn't matter what chest rig you get. They're all just buckles and elastic that hold mags. Some of them have plastic inserts and a zip pocket, but at the end of the day, you're carrying 3 mags, maybe a pistol mag, and the baofeng radio you picked up off amazon. It's not like any of them are revolutionary pieces of gear.

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>>64899376
Just ask jeff he rizzed up your mother with a temu platecarrier. He's got a pair of 4SICMH plates because he doesn't drop shit like a clumsy motherfucker.

>>64899382
>Ask this black guy about his opinion
Eh, no thanks.

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>>64899384
But he has a multicam black pimp cloak, and therefore he is UNEQUALLY qualified to give his unsolicited advice.

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From the makers of the pimp cloak, comes a platecarrier for your child.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256807799132566.html?

>>64899370
Probably. I’m in search of the perfect instant rig. Started with Chicom, graduated to Swedish 304, graduated to flc, but looking to dial in concept. I’ve been having doubts on how quickly a loaded carrier can be donned with no prior warning.

>>64899412
Valid. Precisely why it's a good idea to reinforce your house so it cannot be breached in seconds like in the below videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5cJmzyW2BM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqidJhwTk8o
The more warning, the better regardless of gear.

>>64899417
That’s what it boils down to. Early warning systems. Certain limitations there. At that point is this rig more an exfil rig? If you have advance warning does it event make sense to fortify with armor when egress is available?

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>>64899431
>Certain limitations there
What do you mean? Even if you're renting you can sneak certain items. Doorbell cameras (these flop against jammers / deauth attacks if wireless), replace door screws with longer ones and just don't tell the landlord, 3M window film, door jam bars that go down to the floor, etc.
Goons like in those videos (fugitive recovery agents aka bounty hunters who really wanna be SWAT cops) aren't rolling serious breaching tools so even the basic reinforcements will give you serious advance warning. Most burglars are not running serious kit. Signal jammers are on the rise so you would ideally want wired cameras, and also cameras watching cameras. That's vital.
>At that point is this rig more an exfil rig?
How are you getting out of the house? Rig on, dive out window and just book it out of there? What if you're surrounded on all sides.
>If you have advance warning does it event make sense to fortify with armor when egress is available?
Define available. Are you going to scoot out if it's just one dude? Are you bailing on your family? Are you going to have to break through an enemy force to egress out and do a fighting withdrawal? Where are you going?
I've thought a portable IIIA or preferably III shield might be helpful for sudden armed break-ins. It makes sense to stay more on defense unless the situation is genuinely untenable (ex that one guy on reddit whose relative won a bet and a sketchy as fuck bookie sent a pro hit squad with hydraulic breaching tools to beat his ass raw).

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I need it...

>>64899470
you're such an annoying little shit.

>>64899431
>Bailing out of the place that you know best, know where you have/have not reenforced, know every blind corner, know every choke point
It's like some of you have never had to hold down a fortified position, vs being forced to defend from some ditch filled with shit water. Unless some CQB trained operators are kicking in your door, you have a much better chance defending a strong point, than running away.

>>64899493
Somebody's boring. Guy wants a breaching ram. Maybe it's the new overwhites and somebody needs to BUY IT FOR HIM.
>>64899495
Agreed, unless you have viet cong tunnels only you know about that lead to a secondary, much more defensible position, and the force you're up against is so overwhelming you stand zero chance against them as of present.
Wasn't there a thread a few weeks ago entertaining remote control, armed sentry guns using FRTs and drum mags? Legally (IANAL / this not legal advice) not a booby trap if there's someone on the "trigger" and all the necessary elements of self defense are still in play.

>>64899511
You don't even really need that. There was a story from my home town a decade or so ago, where some cops did a no knock warrant on some shaking, PTSD veteran that was either growing or dealing drugs. He killed one of them, and wounded five more and I'm pretty sure he only had a hand gun and only suffered non-life threatening injuries. I think a lot of people underestimate the kind of damage you can do with some level 4 plates and a few packed mags.

>>64899443
>certain limitations
I’m meaning that there’s only so much you can do for early warning. It is technically a funding black hole, but there’s a practical limit to your capability.
>exfil
The point is not allowing it to get to the point where they’re right on you. Working off the assumption that they have an inherent advantage almost means fortifying is the failure mode of this whole process.
>my illogical rambling continued
Advance knowledge through early warning leading to assessment of threat. Return to certain limitations and imperfect advance knowledge, almost seems logical to avoid direct contact and exfil whenever the opportunity presents.
>fugitive good squad
*crash* they’re here. Is it better to grab rifle or armor first. At a certain point isn’t it better to get the hell out of there versus fortifying in place while they potentially get reinforced?

>>64899530
>you can do with some level 4 plates
Sure. They don't help you however if you get tagged outside the area they cover. Granted, most of your body outside the "plate zone" isn't as important (besides the head / neck, duh). I think shields might be worth looking into. Faster to grab than a PC, covers more area, doesn't have behind armor blunt trauma concerns, and can be used to shield family. Better yet, both.
Downsides are they're expensive, many of the good ones are "blue-side" and can't be purchased sans-credentials, and they are wonky to navigate doors / stairs / corners with, plus if it's a hand shield you have to figure out ergonomics with your choice of gun. Shields are however (in theory, this is untested) not covered by the NY armor ban for our bros behind enemy lines.

>>64899511
>tunnel
You discovered the exfil route.
>>64899530
I just remember that dude they sent the explosive robot after due to the damage he was dealing.

>>64899556
My only issue with shields is that they're really only useful in one specific scenario. If I had infinite money and nothing else to buy, then yeah, sure. But as a normal, everyman a shield is so far down my priority list it's not even a real consideration for me.

>>64899573
I've got a IIIA one-hand shield I got for real cheap that I can sling on the side of my pack, but to your point the utility is limited. It's useless versus rifle rounds and it's only old school IIIA aramid so it'll run out of gas quick versus emerging street threats like 50gr Liberty 9x19mm. M855 will probably pierce it even subsonic, so ARPs will fuck it up.
Botach has a strong variety of Taclite and other type shields available up to Level IV, ditto for Jinwudun but they've got no industry rep and their plates suck. Militech is another option. Used Protech / RBR also on the table. Light rifle rated options are hard to come by, and rifle threats are a priority if you're seriously thinking about shields.
Tencate made some baller ass LIBA shields using ceramic pellets but they're impossible to obtain CONUS.
>>64899551
I'd grab rifle first, in this hypo, if my defenses have failed and they're literally right on my ass - ex hardcore bookie hit squad from prior example using a hydraulic jam spread tool and bum rushed my bedroom because they had the forethought to get building schematics in advance of the raid.
They have signal jammers so no dialing out, could keep going but the point is that you focus on eliminating the threat. Armor is not an invincibility shield. You will likely get tagged outside the plate, it's gonna be ugly, it's gonna suck.
Just do what you can to give yourself more warning. Keep in mind goons are better equipped than decades past and they will potentially be running armor of their own.

defense mechanisms LCR back and placard wrap I've been waiting for just showed up so I could convert my placards (that I like a lot when on the plate carrier) to a chest rig when I'm not wearing plates
it sags with even unloaded mags and the velcro tears off halfway just from the curve of wearing it tight against my chest

only option appears to be to sew it on, but then I lose the modularity of being able to change calibers/use it as a placard
bummer

>>64899700
that sucks bro. have you thought about joining flc gang?

>>64899710
i have a dz rig
I was attempting to attach the small chest rig to the straps, or just wear it under that.
I'm sure I can jerry-rig the LCR with some 550 cord to not be all velcro-y but it didn't work out of the box like I envisioned

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Galvion noooooo!!!!!!!

>>64899592
What else can you do for early warning is what I want to know. I keep coming to the solution that burning my house down is the right answer.

>>64900241
Unicron looking ass. Aliexpress version gonna be $28.99
>>64900302
Move out to the sticks, build a house on defensive terrain, and use perimeter cameras with thermal imaging plus a robust perimeter fence?

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>>64900318

>>64899511
>Somebody's boring
and someone sucks cocks (you).
>new overwhites
I told you to fuck off to /arg/.

>>64900318
You don’t understand. I want to burn my house down.
>>64900321
Bitch got a single titty.
>>64900325
/arg/ is what provides the spice. This place provides the armor autism.

>>64900344
Fill walls with tannerite
Bait home invaders into shooting walls
Entire structure explodes
Pros: Lower heating costs in winter
Cons: Labor

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>>64880126
>>64880139
bretty nice kit

>>64900453
The issue with tannerite may be degradation and volatility. Also worry about moisture accumulation. I’m more of a fire suppression system filled with gasoline kind of guy. You can at least exercise the valves every so often and you don’t have to worry about lines getting gunked up.

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Made a flap CCE flap for my chest rig
>>64900638
Good stuff anon

>>64901485
Very nice, looks good.

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Spotted in the wild. Which one of yall was this?

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you'll hear from my lawyers

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>>64900779
>Moisture
Vacuum seal it premixed with a stearic acid dessicant.
>Volatility
Nah its internal of your insulation, unless you let your house routinely heat cycle you will be fine. See: car airbags
Should be good for a long time.
>>64901485
Looks good

>>64901797
Lüften Bro.
>I have chlorine triflouride in my walls

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>>64900241
My trad/mod helm in reverse.

>>64901662
Gamers.

>>64901595
Thanks anon
>>64901797
Thx, quick question A2, is the WAS DCS still the best bang for your bucks plate carrier in Europe ?

>>64901662
Buyer's remorse anon on patrol with his 8.3lb RMA 1155s he got for two benjamins during the blowout sale last winter.

>>64893477
Two more months and Highcum's new armor lineup will save the day and REDEEM their reputation.

>>64901662
Gotta give him props for having a fully packed bag, thats got to be atleast 20-30lbs.

>>64903152
20-30lbs of snacks, maybe. I can’t come up with a valid reason why biscuit boy is wearing kit in public besides attentionwhoring.

>>64903250
He's a STATE AGENT with a warrant and wants the perp to make himself KNOWN.

New armor shit. LAPG is selling their new made in america Level IV at a deep discount, $200 a pop. It's normally $400. Single curve, 7lb, aggressive shoulder cuts, more of a swimmer cut plate. Great show with Buffman, but affiliate video so the usual grain of salt is due.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBoONr8BThE
It outperforms the Hesco 4403 heavily. Given explanation is that it uses an aramid backer, which is nice for a plate at this price. The 4403 is just fiberglass and Hesco really needs to drop that. Alumina-Fiberglass is the same layup as Level IVs from the 1970s and 1980s.
https://lapolicegear.com/lapg-l4ca-level4-ceramic-armor.html

>>64904299
Am I crazy to have no interest in an alumina plates, especially one clocking in at 7lbs? For the price, I feel someone could do better.

>>64904314
Alumina is a perfectly solid workhorse ceramic. It's heavy, but cheap, and performs well enough, even against serious penetrators, that the Russians have Alumina-faced BR5+ plates good for 7N37. They wind up being 9lb or so with required soft armor and CAP trauma panel.
The purity and chemical "doping" of the Alumina matters a lot. Part of the original RMA 1155's problem is bad alumina. Ditto for Hesco 4400 and 3410. What also matters is the backer material, and aramid in this LAPG's case trumps fiberglass.
>For the price, I feel someone could do better.
You will not get decent quality SiC or B4C plates first hand at this price. Militech's Level IV SiC starts at $540 a pair. Gilliam's equivalent plates are all alumina and PE.
>especially one clocking in at 7lbs?
Versus 7.7lb for a Hesco 4403 or 8.4lb for an honestly sized 10x12 Highcom 4S17M? If you're seeing Level IV plates in this price bracket with less weight, something's wrong, whether that be nominal sizing, cheat rings, and/or a lack of drop foam.

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For lack of a better place to ask, what watch is the CEO of walther wearing here?

my pimp cloak is on the boat from CHINA. I am very excited. Thank you for your attention to this matter.

>>64904883
only queers here
ask a /fa/ggot

>>64904883
Not watch person but believe that’s an omega seamaster. Bring your wallet…

>>64904883
>>64905061
Could also be timex deep water which fits the watch face a bit better, but this is just a guess.

>>64905061
gq watch infographic when

>>64905061
The rifle is like $5000, pretty sure if I can justify that I can justify a meme master

>>64901485
What is CCE flap?

>>64904299
Also just saw in the comments Buff really wants to test the Protech 2230s and finds the 3,500ft/s M2AP claim completely badass.
There's one last set on gunbroker. I'm assuming the other cheapo dude just has 2220-1s. Somebody cop it and send to him or let it go to somebody who needs good IVs and doesn't want to settle for Hesco? I don't know if any more 2230s will be available. Judging by how little it was discussed online it wasn't a great seller back when it was new.
Decisions...

>>64905323
Watch yo self there
>>64905442
I bought a p90 which equals the second most expensive firearms purchase I’ve ever made and even then I’d never consider buying a watch for that much.

>>64905535
Are there any other plates that offer similar performance? Plus how do you even get M2AP that fast?

>>64905681
The Aratech Level IV sold up in Canada has an M2AP v50 of 3,783ft/s. The discontinued Highcom 4SAS12 has a v50 of 3,250ft/s. Protech 2230 beats em both on overall specs, IMO. Trend seems to be aramid backed plates are tanky in the M2AP v50 department.
There's a VERY esoteric, old ~7.4lb Ceradyne with a six shot M2AP v0 of 4,172ft/s, but that plate is absolutely impossible to acquire and also suspected to use a zylon backer, so automatic no go.
For reference, ESAPI REV. J is only 3,150ft/s first shot M2AP v50, ditto for XSAPI.
The 2230's exact claim is that they shot twelve plates and not one M2AP penetrated even when driven over 3,500ft/s, so it has massive headroom (not like that Ceradyne though...) and the actual v0 / v50 numbers are unknown. They replaced it with a 2240 around 2019, no idea what that's capable of, but it's certified as a IV like the 2230.
>how do you get M2AP that fast?
Handloaded .300 Weatherby or .300 Rem Ultra, or even .30-378. Reloading M2AP but MORE SPEED is an old trick to bust Level IV that's been around since NIJ 0101.00 became a thing in the early 70s. It'll be easier to do down the road with hybrid case tech. The 2230 is well built and has an UNEQUAL DEFCON trauma layer so you won't get your ribs blown out by rounds that fast.
Do note there's no testing against M993, so it could very well be a sidegrade versus tungsten threat-rated plates.

Meanwhile the Hesco 4403 and 4800 flop to M2AP at just about 2,930. Yikes.

>>64905755
>Esoteric Ceradyne plates
How did you even find info on these in the spook plate guide.
>2240
Hopefully we'll see them in surplus in 5-6 years, if they're real. Wonder why there's absolutely no info on these plates.

>>64905755
>4,172ft
Dude you can't even get M2AP that fast, like it's physically impossible.

>>64906258
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKRVhXDL_TQ

Light work.

>>64906093
They were found by the OG /bag/ crew years ago and compiled into the old guide in the reserve. I moved them off into their own sub-guide after baganon redid the main guide and exclusively made it plates you can realistically obtain. The old /bag/ guide had the issue of being 90% cool guy shit and having the following for normal dudes:
1. Hesco L210
2. Hesco 4400
3. VelSys P34 aka LTC plate from like 2009.
>Hopefully we'll see them in surplus in 5-6 years, if they're real.
The 2240 is on the NIJ CPL, it's definitely real.
>Wonder why there's absolutely no info on these plates
That's part and parcel for special plates not sold to civilians. Even the 2230 was originally cop-only.
>>64906258
Test barrel (not even a gun, really) loaded with propellant too hot to use in a firearm. In the future, hybrid case .300WBY.

>>64905489
a flap in french woodland pattern, presumably.

>>64904948
>on the boat from CHINA
Watch how they string you along with updates:
>on-the-boat
>awaiting unloading
>preparing for receiving
>awaiting customs
>customs inpection
>released from custioms
>awaiting processing
>processing
>routing
>awaiting carrier
>carrier selected
>carrier sorting
>carrier preparing
...until the purchase date to is stale, it makes a charge back impossible. I smell.a.rata.

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>>64905596
>a p90 which equals the second most expensive firearms purchase
Oh, to be so you again...

>>64906666
I think it’s a good stopping point but I worry. The voices are whispering Walther PDP and CZ. I think the solution might at FK BRNO. What else is out there?

>>64906663
lol dude i got platinum status on aliex I know the drill.
>>64906704
.300 winmag to fuck armored goons in the butt

>>64906321
lmao, yeah, "light"
That's a super light .17 caliber bullet, in case you haven't noticed. You're not getting a 166-grain projectile anywhere near 4000 fps, no matter how much money you try and sink into a YouTube publicity stunt, and no matter how impractical.
>>64906475
There's no cartridge that'll get it going that fast, and it's not even debatable. Do you even handload, bro?
> In the future, hybrid case .300WBY.
lol, do you even know anything about guns?

>>64906789
test barrel, lol.

>>64906789
>You're not getting a 166-grain projectile anywhere near 4000 fps, no matter how much money you try and sink into a YouTube publicity stunt, and no matter how impractical.
This is a limitation of current smokeless powder . .30-378 with an ultralight projectile got over 5,000ft/s but it was like 40gr. If you use hybrid cases, presuming the action is strong enough to go from 65,000 PSI SAAMI for .300WBY to 100,000 like what some handloaded 5.56 is pulling, you can use more potent propellant - but this requires extreme testing.
I'd be concerned about whether M2AP is even accurate at that velocity.
>There's no cartridge that'll get it going that fast, and it's not even debatable
See above. Also, test barrel like >>64906798 said. that's just a remote-fired steel tube of unlimited length, dimensions, and pressure restrictions.
The Ceradyne in question was rated for .50 caliber ball with no standoff, plus 7.62x51 Swiss P AP, so it is always possible they didn't actually test M2AP at 4,172ft/s and they just back-calculated it using a formula akin to the one Adept uses for armor design.
High v0 / v50 performance is simultaneously a function of the strike face reliably doing its job and the BACKER actually being strong enough to catch the fragmented penetrators at significantly enhanced velocity and energy.
This is why fiberglass backed Level IVs shit the bed so damn bad against M2AP over 3,000ft/s unless they're overbuilt to shit, a la the original 1" cheat-ringed RMA 1189. Like RMA or not, the 8x10" part of the 1189 that was actually bullet resistant is robust.
>lol, do you even know anything about guns?
Neetmaster with the daily ad hom coming in hot.

>>64906734
Winnag takes up so much space though. What else?

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Frenchanon here. We have this local brand that offers Level IV SAPI plates. (Pangolin tacticalgear)
Does it look trustworthy?
Between this and the Hesco 4403, which would you choose?

>>64906876
Pangolin came up here before. They make interesting flexible III+ ceramics that are kinda similar to Stealth Armor Systems' Hexar here in the states.
That plate in your picture has a couple of quirks.
1. It's only 5.76lb for a 10x12 in that test report. That is exceptionally light unless it uses boron carbide or a B4C-SiC hybrid ceramic, which I don't think it does. It's $640 for two plates and a vest or 541,67 euros. Too cheap. It's either Alumina or SiC.
2. Pursuant to #1, the test report has no drop test. The only thing dropped is the clay for calibration purposes.
3. I only see one shot of M2AP tested at 35.2mm BFD. Since it's PM-10 it also needs to be shot with three 7.62x54R B-32 API, separate plate, and the BFD needs to be 25mm or under for those with 120mm spacing. Not seeing that report.

The 4403 is more "proven" by virtue of actually being NIJ certified, but it's a basic bitch alumina-fiberglass plate that has no headroom above Level IV spec. On the other hand, I don't see this plate having drop protection and the multi-hit is questionable. Since you can get 4403s in France (so there's someone dealing who apparently did ITAR paperwork), are you able to save up for Hesco 4601s instead? Much better performer than the 4403. Consider also the Militech RF3 Black Label, but since it's Chinese exercise some extra scrutiny.

>>64906857
>>64906798
> I'd be concerned about whether M2AP is even accurate at that velocity.
I don't think that anybody has ever fired it at that velocity, ever. Maybe somebody has gotten it to 3400fps with incredibly scarce .30-378 at 65,000 psi, or 3800 at 100k, but >4000 fps is not going to happen.
Maybe you could make a sabot and fire it from a .50 BMG. That would be kind of interesting.

>>64906913
>>64906876
> "STRIKE FACE"
> Photoshopped label
Is this a Militech off-label plate, or what?

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>>64906919
Well apparently they did. Buff is able to get M2AP up to 3,300ft/s out of a .300 winmag. .300 Weatherby gets 3,400 stock using factory 165gr ammunition and a 26" barrel. .30-378 is another cut above .300WBY and gets you 3,450ft/s again using factory ammunition. With handloads you can push it further presuming all components (case / primer, action) are up for it.
I'm thinking test barrel filled with RDX or another high explosive mixed with smokeless powder was how they did it. Either way it's a bizarre capability. You cannot actually field M2AP going over 4,000ft/s, ergo it's a completely unlikely threat, and by virtue of it only being steel core it does not proxy even at those extreme velocities for emerging tungsten penetrators. Also, by virtue of it lacking core mass, it does not proxy for .50 BMG M2AP or Mk263 or other larger steel core penetrators. Maybe it was just to flex, since it was suspected Zylon-backed and people were hot for Zylon before 2002-2004.

Pic rel is the Ceradyne in question, taken from I think that First Defense weird CIA shell company's website in like 2001.

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>>64906926
Well I mean the Chinese are now masters of flexible rifle armor, since they make components for Bain's hexar and dragonskin and he allegedly owes them $20k for ceramic per some deleted youtube comments from the manufacturer.
Would make perfect sense for them to pivot to Pangolin, which conveniently makes flexible rifle armor and their plates have some Chinese characteristics. 5.7lb is a common layup weight for Longfri style SiC+PE IVs with no drop pro. See 4SiCMH and their other IVs.

The white "STRIKE FACE" is not indicative of Chinesium by itself. Even Ceradyne did it at times. >>64906945. Also, pic rel, it's on virtually all milspec plates.

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>>64906875
JC. The mole people recommend working odd jobs, reloading M2AP into hybrid case .30-06, and making a silent takedown against armored MJ12 cyborgs from long distance.
You can hit them from much further away than with a prod, and it's a lot smaller than a GEP gun. Now if you'll excuse me I need to go return Manderley's multicam black pimp coat. He stole it from Tracer Tong in hong kong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gt52SaUnmNo

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>>64902067
If you cant get crye without being raped the WAS DCS isnt terrible.

>>64906991
Laputan Cloak

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>>64907002
signature look of Alibaba Dooku superiority.

I am ordering a pimp today

>>64906704
>stopping point
>he doubles down on nativity
You have broken the seal and thrown away the cork, you must finish the bottle. When your safe overflows, we'll talk again.

>>64906789
>no matter how impractical
Have we tried adding propellant to the projectile instead of tracer compound?

>>64906876
>Frenchanon here. We have this local brand
Wasn't the lvl iii bumberchute (umbrella) also French?

>>64907086
Yep, but only IIIA.
>With NIJ 3A protection, this umbrella protects you from 9mm to .44 Mag revolvers and submachine guns. The ParaPactum® is compact, durable, and easy to deploy. Weighing 4 kg and measuring one meter in diameter, it is the perfect ally for close protection.
https://semper-invicta.fr/en/produits/parapactum-pare-balles/

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The digi quad night vision goggles are back. $1,350 shipped on ebay. Note the sensor on these is pretty shit even by digital NV standards.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/389284098310?
Illuminator is basically required, so you'll be a lighthouse to anyone else with NV.

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>>64907143
perfectly normal closed umbrella, nothing to see here

>>64907158
the funny thing about night vision is once everyone has night vision it becomes retarded because you all show up to each other from a mile away because your lenses glow
like the clip of the dude turning on his laser and suddenly gets lit up by everyone elses laser

if no one else has it you have an advantage, once everyone has it everyone just stops fighting at night

>>64907158
why do you give deal alerts for disappointing shit that no one should buy?

>>64907167
it'll always be useful for preying on normies

>>64907077
It already overfloweth. I need more projects because if I finish my current projects then will I have no projects left.

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>>64907012
Sticks and stones
>>64907158
This is up there with a the 256 thermal you keep spamming
Frig off with this
>>64907167
Dumbest take ive heard all week, congratulations.

>>64907170
for the lols and also because it's in 11 carts, so people who are dumb of ass are buying it.
>>64907198
I don't even know what 256 thermal you're on about. There's the shitty red dot thermal upthread but that literally just came out.
>>64907161
brb gonna run around with this to block kamikaze drones like mary poppins.

>>64907198
>Sticks and stones
That one ai slop anon has it out for you, great Caesar. I think it’s because you insulted his strela.

>if no one else has it you have an advantage, once everyone has it everyone just stops fighting at night
Well shit time to go fight in tunnels.

>>64907248
He actually has some aura in a pimp cloak not gonna lie. Maybe he should go buy one.

>>64907264
It adds to the aura. If I wasn’t still working on my trash suit, I’d consider one.

I'm tinkering with the DIY gear route and want to start sewing pouches, chest rigs, plate carriers, and other gear. Anyone have a good place to get started? Patterns and similar resources?

>>64907281
It's eighty dollars on aliex. Do it.
Become the Trash Pimp you were meant to be. Ride down chinatown in a purple 02 escalade. Beat your bitches with a BudK carbon fiber cane. Pimpin' ain't ever been easy but now it's damn near a cakewalk.
The Sweatshop Lords have delivered you the key.

https://hudsongunner.com/protech-2014g-level-iv-stand-alone-rifle-plate-set-of-2/

These look like a good source of introductory plates according to /gq/. Anything I need to know about these? Am I gonna regret getting them?

>>64907297
They're the bare minimum option. Single curve alumina-fiberglass design only rated to stop a single .30-06 M2AP with no advertised multi-hit capabilities. Remember, Level IV plates are allowed to fail the Level III test.
They were certified, so drop pro is good for usual circumstances, but no headroom above IV spec. These are passable, but I'd look at the Gilliam 1023s as well.

>>64907297
Also, forgot to mention, there's only $200 separating a pair of those from a pair of Hesco 4403MCs, less if they're on sale, and the Hescos while mediocre are an upgrade in almost every way and are not 10+ year old plates out of warranty. Multi curve, similar weight, similar thickness, some multi hit (3x 7.62x51 or 6x basic 5.56 at NIJ spacing), active NIJ cert, no condition games, and active warranty.
The 1023s are stronger in terms of multi-hit (six M2AP vs one), because they're tile array and not monolithic ceramic, but are only single curve and on the flip side are chinese material.

>>64907198
>Dumbest take ive heard all week, congratulations.
considering it's your fat fuck ass talking lmao
but no that's from actual combat vets not fat faggots like you who have never done and will never do fuck all

>>64907176
true, they're fun

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>>64906913
Do you think the "U-line ESAPI plate NIJ Level IV" from PGD (Protection Group Denmark) would be a better choice instead?
I'm not sure I'll be able to get the 4601s here

>>64907452
A2 is kinda pissy today. Anyways, the whole "everybody is gonna have NIR" angle is partly why there's a slow switch to SWIR spectrum I2 so you can hide from regular NV (but ironically not digital).
The lens issue still needs to be addressed, but once NIR-LWIR fusion is commonplace then that's kinda doneso. Thermals are the real pain in the ass.

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>>64907452
There is a huge difference between claiming we need laser discipline because we arent fighting illiterate sand and claiming that NVG is useless because "the lenses glow"

Maybe your dumbass is wearing NVG backwards?

>>64907470
That's similar in construction to the 4601 actually, except it uses an aramid backer versus the 4601's PE. This looks good and there is no indication it is light on drop foam or otherwise underbuilt. 7.7lb is on the heavier side but workable for a Level IV solution.
Do you need full Level IV? Your decision to make. They have an M855A1 / BZ API rated III+ Berzerker plate at about 5.6lb. You lose on B-32 API, M80A1 is sketchy, in Europe there's a common 7.62x51 P80 AP which is too hot for the Berzerker but will be covered by the U-Line ESAPI. Russian steel core like 7N13, 7N22, and tungsten 5.45 are sketchy with the Berzeker too. Again, your call as to what you think will be in your area.
You will not be able to handle newer Russian APs like 7N37 with either plate if that's your concern.

>>64907470
>>64907505
PGD plates are famously pleb-grade, and 7.7 pounds is terrible for a one-shot-rated Level IV plate unless it costs less than $200. But that plate is almost 500 Euros, which is just lol.
PGD only do one thing right, which is helmet pads. For everything else, they suck. It's also funny that they sell Templar's Gear equipment, because TG is shitty even by Airsoft-tier standards.

>>64907570
>Pleb-grade
Care to explain how SiC-Aramid is a bad layup for this plate? That's an excellent use of materials and means it likely has substantial headroom if it's that heavy. This isn't a Jinwudun situation where the ceramic is shit quality either, because it's Saint-Gobain.
>7.7 pounds is terrible for a one-shot-rated Level IV
You aren't accounting for shot spacing requirements. With NIJ it's 51mm minimum, which is super difficult for nonolithic IVs to pull off against M2AP unless they use a tile or pellet array or are steel (and those do exist as you know). The RMA 1189 can do six in 8x10" but it would be over 10lb if it actually provided edge to edge protection.
>But that plate is almost 500 Euros, which is just lol.
SiC and Aramid are a lot more expensive than alumina and fiberglass.

>>64907617
It weighs as much as a $200 plate. It's not rated for anything more than a $200 plate is. It's from PGD which is practically an Airsoft company, and partners with Airsoft companies. There's literally zero proof that it's worth more than $200.
> muh Saint-Gobain
They have shit-tier grades that I'm sure they offload on companies like PGD

>>64907502
shut the fuck up you larping fatass lol you don't know anything

>>64907479
we'll have to see how it goes in the next few years
thermal is pretty neat for sure

>>64907637
>implying you know anything either.
Lol, lmao.

>>64907633
Alright, this should be good.
>It weighs as much as a $200 plate
So does the Protech 2230, which is also technically only rated for one M2AP too, even though it's been tested to stop it at extreme velocity.
>It's not rated for anything more than a $200 plate is
Same deal with the Protech 2230. There is no official NIJ rating above IV and really it's frowned upon to do IV+ or especially V. This plate on paper has major headroom.
>It's from PGD which is practically an Airsoft company
And since you're comparing it to $200 plates, you are comparing them to Hesco with four FIT failures and Gilliam who literally makes plates in his garage. Airsoft company is irrelevant IMHO.
>There's literally zero proof that it's worth more than $200.
And what proof was there in 2015 that the Protech 2230 was worth over $500 a plate when the 1.5lb lighter Hesco 4600 was $400?
> They have shit-tier grades that I'm sure they offload on companies like PGD
It'd be a lot cheaper than this price then, think Jinwudun SiC only being twenty dollars more than Alumina, and wouldn't be worth the loss of business when the shit inevitably gets someone killed.
Granted, everybody and their dog is running Bitossi now instead of Saint Gobain, but that's primarily because of 99.7% pure Alumina.

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>>64907637
>Thinks nods are useless because "the lenses glow"
Pottery

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>>64892769
>Whats this infographic from? Any more like it?

https://api.army.mil/e2/c/downloads/2023/01/31/6411baed/17965.pdf

>>64907684
>ah yes let me post my larp factory
Lmao faggot

>>64907676
there's a difference between getting first hand combat experience and larping, a2 is a larper

>>64907705
Muh combat experience. So what exactly are your contributions here, or are you just here to fulfill a personal autistic vendetta against a2?

>>64907705
>there's a difference between getting first hand combat experience and larping
post CIB

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>>64907755
The combat experience of your lenses glowing

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>>64907755
>unironically defending a2 like he's a princess in the castle
m'lady!

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>>64907633
>>64907680
and here's the Protech table showing both the 2230 and the 2014G. Note the same thing as with the PGD plate. One shot of .30-06 M2AP, even though the 2230 can handle it at far greater velocity than NIJ spec. In other words, it has major "headroom" and the weight / composition of the PGD plate is also indicative of it having a lot of headroom as well.
With hybrid case ammo on the horizon and armor manufacturers playing fuckfuck games to make the plates lighter it is imperative your shit doesn't just meet bare minimum spec. It should exceed it.
Also, turns out M2AP, despite dating from the 1940s, is still a very formidable threat and it's hell on monolithic strike faces. Maybe the Chinese are onto something with their tile arrays...

>>64907785
>deflection
Im waiting to hear about this combat experience bro. Armor autism anon must be a larper too. Surely doesn’t know a thing about armor, right?

>>64907755
>a2
>contributions
lol
and who the fuck are you? his boyfriend? lol

>>64907773
post your dd214 that doesn't exist

>>64907815
>talking to people who have seen combat and killed people
vs
>talking to a2
which one is more valid to you champ

>>64907815
>armor autism anon
Ahem, there's four of us.
1. Baganon
2. Infographanon
3. Neetmaster
4. Rusanon
Actually, wait, I haven't seen Rusanon in several threads. You still alive buddy?

>>64907801
Out of curiosity, is M2AP even fielded by anyone right now? Obviously being able to stop it is a big plus in the armor department, but is it a threat one can realistically face outside of someone rolling his own ammo?

Anyways, another set of PE plates is for sale real cheap on tacswap if anyone wants it. D2741s (Tencate), $400 for the pair.
https://www.tacswap.com/post/699173131ae94b1a45c73bb0
These are fine versus lead core threats, but because they're all-PE are very sketchy against M855 and other steel-core rounds. As discussed with the Protech plates in >>64893807 it's velocity-dependent. You might be able to get by against an ARP with a chode barrel but that's very risky. You'll get blown out by M855A1 from hundreds of yards away. Hence why there isn't a PE section in >>64893402. UHMWPE is just too risky for general use until the newer M855-rated plates from Combat Systems, LTC, and TAS are perfected.

>>64907821
The four combine their paragraph long posts to form one very autistic anon, kind of like power rangers.

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>>64907851
This is gonna be a long one, sorry.
>Out of curiosity, is M2AP even fielded by anyone right now?
Only civilians in the US, really. Keep in mind there are three flavors of M2AP. There is M2AP as it was loaded in .30-06 back in the 1940s, which is about 2,750ft/s, NIJ-spec "test" M2AP which is up to 2,910ft/s, and then reloaded M2AP above that.
The "purpose" of the NIJ making M2AP the Level IV threat is that back in the 1970s M2AP at 2,880ft/s (it went up with 0101.06 later on) proxied for basically 99% of threats a cop could encounter in a tactical situation.
NIJ is a law enforcement standard, first and foremost, and it was made at a time when surplus M2AP was really cheap. Millions of rounds were made for WW2, but only at the original spec. People figured out that you could reload it faster and its performance only improved. There are some plates predating the NIJ even which were rated for M2AP in the 3,000ft/s range (pic rel armor is from before January 1971) because there was a concern then, as there is now, that M2AP can be handloaded and becomes a far more impressive threat.
>Obviously being able to stop it is a big plus in the armor department, but is it a threat one can realistically face outside of someone rolling his own ammo?
Today, M2AP still proxies for everything one can realistically encounter CONUS. It's higher than all of them at NIJ spec. M80A1 is covered, M61 is covered, M855A1 is covered easily, B-32 API (which is being sold surplus interestingly on gunjoker for decent prices) is covered. It only fails to reliably proxy for four things:
1. Itself but faster, which is covered by the Protech 2230 / 4SAS12 / Aratech.
2. Tungsten core AP.
3. .50 caliber ball and up.
4. Hybrid case EPR.
None of the above four are that common outside of edge case scenarios.
>tl;dr
You get M2AP protection not because you're being faced with M2AP, but because you want to cover your bases against weaker rounds that are going around CONUS.

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>>64907876
yeah. Neetmaster and I (infographanon) get into 300 post debates over the PURPOSE of things like 5lb $2,000 Level IV plates that can't be dropped, lose to M995 because B4C amorphization, are far weaker overall than their 5.8-6.5lb brothers, and have zero headroom. Those would be the Hesco 4800, LTC 26300 / 26310, Protech 9812-R1, the 4.5lb Level IV Adept was working on years ago allegedly but canned (that thing had to be underbuilt as fuck lol), RMA 1199 G2, etc.

>>64907904
Ah, that makes sense. It's more of a ceiling than any actual expected threat. Thanks for the insight.

>>64907937
Peak entertainment plus I honestly wonder too, so don’t let a bit of fun stop the discussion. My personal theory is some sort of concealment/icw solution. Possibly something to armor up lvl III with a bag slot.

>>64893402
I bought the new RMA 1165 Gen 2 Level IV plates (shooters cut 5.5lbs) for $600 shipped. Did I do bad?

>>64908045
Maybe your boots aren't nice and you were tricked.

>>64908000
Yeah you goofed, sorry.
1. They aren't really 10x12, it's a nominal 9.5x11.5 with bottom corners cut out, and there's a variance so they can be even smaller. You're down on coverage.
2. They are absolute no drop plates with no drop protection. RMA made Buffman skip all drop testing. Like the 4SAS4 they can be damaged by the mail if packaged poorly.
3. It's RMA, a company infamous around here for chicanery.
Better call would have been RF3 Blacks from Militech for $600 a set unshipped. They rank among the highest IVs in Buffman's rankings and he's a huge RMA stan.
>>64907976
No problem. Only in the last twenty years or so has the ceiling been raised. 7.62 Swiss P AP (higher than M993) is getting more adoption with LEs. M993 / M995 are falling off trucks. Hybrid case rounds will become more common. SOCOM has like five rounds above Swiss P AP. 7.62x51 M1158 will be going around. 6.8x51will also be an issue.
Fortunately, tungsten rated plates are cheaper than they've ever been. The 8.3lb Gilliam 8002 is only $314 a plate, but it's only good up to Swiss P AP, which is from 1998 and getting a little antiquated and M1158 / 6.8 XM1184 will be sketchy.
>>64907984
So like Baganon with the X-CAL LPs. I like your style. Hesco T212s are great budget "street plates" as well, but those concede .308 entirely.

>>64908045
I was the same and then one of them took a rogue chainsaw and now I don't feel so bad about fucking them up

>>64908088
Is there anything I can buy to mitigate drop risk? Like an additional foam layer or something? Is best bet trying to offload them on Facebook marketplace?

>>64908107
Oh yeah, that's easy. RMA's recommendation is to buy a trauma pad and put it IN FRONT of the plate. Tacscorp sells cheap ones. Really, any foam 0.25-0.35" will do. Yoga mat cut up will work. See Buffman 4SAS4 retest for testing data.
My concern would be the mail damaging them.

>>64908107
Also, it's tricky to sell them because you aren't going to get what you paid. Do tap and torque when you get them, run foam in front. Save up for RF3 black labels or another model down the road and relegate the 1165s to spares. They're very thin for IVs so they can be pressed into a less than overt role.

>>64908173
What is tapping / torquing? They looked good to me on arrival (packaging wasn’t busted up or anything either).

FWIW, these are going into a slick carrier for now (to be coupled with a chest rig or under clothes) and I plan to get fancier plates once I get a more infantry-oriented carrier.

>>64908088
>X-CAL LPs
Especially want. I didn’t realize the lt210 was out. Crazy to hope we see a m212 (multi-curve) version to drop? I need time to form an opinion on .308 concede. My initial impression is that it’s a fair trade.

>>64908000
Do you even lurk, bro? Yes you fucked up bigtime. If you can still cancel the order that would be your best bet.

>>64908220
They're "field methods" of testing plate integrity. Tapping is when you tap the plate with a metal rod or similar device. If you hear a chime, good. if you hear a thud, bad. This tests whether the strike face has delaminated from the backer. In other words, adhesive failure. This is important for certain Ceradynes, old TAP Gammas, and 4SAS4s. Only works on some plates, mostly SAPI family.
This isn't exact either. For example, I get barely any chime with my Protech 2230s because the front is heavily foamed. If I try the rear, I touch UNEQUAL DEFCON (lol) trauma padding first and then the aramid backer.
Torquing is when you grab corners of the plate and do a little twisting. This tests for major cracking. It will NOT help you with micro fractures, which is what I'd be worried about with the 1165s. Buff's first 4SAS4s passed tap and torque fine but then failed because of small cracks the tests couldn't ID. The plates had no safety factor built in so they had to be pristine to do their job. The 1165s are not built super well because the priority is low weight on the cheap. Strict no drop too. You have to xray or CT scan the plates to be fully sure. The military has specialized machines for rapid SAPI family inspection.
>FWIW, these are going into a slick carrier for now (to be coupled with a chest rig or under clothes) and I plan to get fancier plates once I get a more infantry-oriented carrier.
That'll do. They're thin enough you can conceal them decently under a jacket or something.
>>64908247
Ah, the T212 isn't a successor to the L211. It's more a budget downgrade actually, exclusively sold by Trex. No 7.62x54R LPS or 7.62 BZ API defeat but it has more M855A1 than the old L210.

>>64908287
They were already delivered, he's kinda boned there, neetz.

>>64908247
Oh yeah, the XCAL LPs are also super cheap. Use the right soft armor with them though.
https://www.catalystsurplus.com/product-page/x-cal-lp

>>64907143
>>64907161
This really makes good covert common sense to me for execprotect and daily armor. Plus, fuck rain.

>>64907479
>A2 is kinda pissy today
Do you mean more than his typical condescending jerk self?

>>64908355
Yeah I like it as well. Another plus is that thick umbrellas can block you from very shitty 256 thermals and/or those with high NETD. Better sensors will be able to tell there's clearly an artificial circular object, but if it means being less visible than the next guy against a drone or sniper, you'll live.
Stuff like this also makes me annoyed with how much of a flop Zylon. Set the industry back twenty years. Only the very best UHMWPE IIIA today (Hardwire-57) is where Zylon soft armor was in 2004 (Zero-G Black Diamond). We could have had a 7.62x39 MSC umbrella by now.

This is also a reason (one of many) to not run shitty low-res thermals.

>>64908351
Shame that wasn’t the price for a set. I’m guessing soft armor inserts might work alright for a carrier? I could always go 90’s swat vest…

>>64908472
You have to match or exceed the specs of the soft armor these plates were designed to be used with. Can't just use any soft armor, even if it's IIIA. Basically just compare v50 numbers and make sure the soft armor is also certified so it'll work when conditioned.
These also have the same drop / angry mailman problem as the RMA 1165s. Zero drop pro because these are meant to be low-profile. Doubled by the fact these XCALs are like ten years old.

The big thing with body armor is that there is no free lunch. If you want something you'll need to sacrifice something else.

Where's the most ethical shop to buy cat ears for my earpro?

Weird ass ESBI side plate at Catalyst. ESBI "Steel-AL" from 2006.
https://www.catalystsurplus.com/product-page/esbi-gs-steel
There are two theories to this sucker.
1. It's an "H-ESBI" using aluminum oxide rather than boron carbide. In the early to mid 00s there were supply shortages from Ceradyne, Armorworks, BAE, LTC, Cercom, etc and they couldn't make enough boron carbide plates to meet demand, so weight requirements were waived and Alumina / SiC ESAPIs were permitted. These are the blue covered ESAPIs you see occasionally surplus, mostly from Diamondback Tactical. Bulletproofme also sells them factory fresh from LTC.
Ironically some people prefer these because they aren't subject to B4C amorphization failure versus tungsten core threats, so they won't get fucked in the ass like a REV. A ESAPI versus M995 out of a 20". Moot point now because REV. G and later ESAPIs mog these blueberry smurf plates.
Problem: These have a green cover.
2. Early ESAPIs required wide as fuck shot spacing and there were attempts at PE-backed steel ESAPIs to overcome this, with weight requirements ofc waived. These didn't go anywhere because the weight sucked and remain an early 00s curiosity. Allegedly very tanky though. I think these may be an offshoot of that project where they reduced the steel and added an alumina layer so it goes Alumina strike face, steel backup strike face / crack arrestor, PE or aramid backer. So hybrid H-ESAPI and... ST-ESAPI? HSTESAPI? STHESAPI?

Early GWOT armor procurement really was a fuck. I think in 2003 SOCOM was rolling like ten different plates with different requirements. Now they roll three.
1. VS-PXULV covert plates or boron carbide faced BZ API version
2. GEN-6 TSA/LTO from LTC
3. GEN-6 TSA/O from LTC

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>>64908800
https://www.etsy.com/listing/4301083782/
Small one man show up in Canada.

>>64908483
>angry mailman
That was gonna be my next question. I NEED the lowest profile plates, with the least protection, that are extra cheap and capable of withstanding an angry mailman.

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>>64908803
Samefagging, I ran the NSN and got this:
>Enhanced side torso ballistic plate insert small arms protective insert, 6" x 8" curvature thickness 1 inch max-uniform throughout, weight, max 3.0 lbs, metallica and aramid backing
>master of puppets
So theory #2 is correct. A SAPI M version of this plate is 7.5lb ICW milspec soft, so you're looking at over 8lb (yikes). An actual Level IV steel plate is 12lb uncoated, about 14lb with enough coat to actually not frag your femorals, arms, and jugular from M2AP, so a substantial portion of this plate must be aramid and ceramic and the steel is just some kind of heavy-duty crack arrestor and MAYBE enough to catch stuff like M855 if the strike face is toast. Gotta be honest, not a huge fan.

>>64908852
>I NEED the lowest profile plates, with the least protection
The least? Er... VelSys VS-PXULVs? They're 1.5lb for a 10x13 covert cut and stop only 7.62x39 MSC ICW IIIA. The plates are under 0.4" thick.
Or ULWSAPIs, which are an estimated one pound flat for a size medium, stop the same round standalone, but have a max BFD of 62mm?
I'm going to assume you mean most. In order to guarantee mailman protection you have to roll NIJ 0101.06-certified or milspec plates. Like I said before, if you want something you'll need to sacrifice something else. You want the following (I think):
1. Lowest profile
2. Highest protection
3. Extra cheap
4. Full drop protection.
Hesco 4403MCs are cheap, relatively thin (0.8"), multi-curve, and certified Level IV. They're heavy at 7.7lb 10x12 or 7.9lb SAPI M. If you want less weight you're gonna need to come up big time budget wise or start conceding another factor.

>>64908850
This is amazing but I need fabric, something that can fold and be tossed into a rangebag.

>>64908881
Alrighty,
https://www.weaponoutfitters.com/hardcore-tactics-nekomimi-headset-covers-anime-cat-girl-ears-comtac-headset.html

>>64908852
Also if you're willing to play ball with Hesco and raise budget, Verretts has the 3801LV on sale for $1,070 a set.
https://www.verrettstactical.com/collections/shop/products/hesco-level-iii-3801-lv-armor?
It's the 3801 with the foam backing removed so it WILL go over 44mm BFS against several threats. Also, since it's an LV plate from Hesco, jury is out on whether it needs IIIA soft behind it to make rating. They're really wishy-washy on that, for example there's technically two Hesco 4800LVs. There's the SRT version that stops M2AP but goes over 44mm (soft ICW version), and then there's the ICW IIIA version that stops M2AP under 44mm but can only do so when backed by IIIA, specifically marked "IV ICW IIIA" on the back. (Hard ICW).
It's 1.3lb and 0.61" thick, multi-curve, so close to anticipated ULWSAPI specs. I'm inclined to think it's soft-ICW but I cannot prove that so it must be assumed hard-ICW until proven otherwise.
They have two thicknesses given, 0.61" and 0.38", so the former is possibly the soft-ICW version and the latter is 1.3lb / 0.38" hard-ICW and MUST be used with IIIA... maybe.

https://www.verrettstactical.com/collections/shop/products/hesco-level-iii-3801-lv-armor?

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>>64908880
>>64908910
I’m gonna have to buy the mailman some cookies and a pack of cigarettes.

>>64908990
Or hope they're packed well. Quick armor history stuff, part of the reason why people had issues with the 4SAS4s in 2024 failing tap and torque is twofold:
1. There was basically zero quality control. People were getting 4SAS4s with worn off labels, water damage, failing tap because they were delamed straight out of the box. When you're selling made-in-america plates for $86 a pop, corners need to be cut. RMA, going back to those 1165s discussed earlier, doesn't run a great ship (not one certified ceramic) but they're better than that MOSTLY. People sometimes get plates with ripped / wrinkled covers at worst, which is unacceptable workmanship per NIJ but won't directly impact ballistic effectiveness.
2. More pertinent to your mailman problem, the no-drop 4SAS4s, akin to lo-pro plates from Protech like the XCAL LP and XCAL AP, shipped by Tacticalshit were shipped with basically no padding in the boxes. The postal service beats the shit out of packages, this has been known for decades, and that's a problem. Not just the mailman, but also the people in the sorting center. Worth noting that drop protection was NOT required by NIJ until 2008 with 0101.06. People have gotten by fine with no-drop no-foam plates from 1971-2007. Indeed, the single-curve "real" 4SAS4 was proudly 0101.04-certified (0101.04 sucked as a standard and frankly got cops killed because it permitted Zylon to get certified because no real conditioning protocol, but that's not relevant here). If the plates are shipped well and treated well then there isn't a huge problem. Hell, a guy here got a pair of SOF ESAPIs recently that are 0101.04 and from like 2006 and they pass tap / torque great, but he won the condition lottery with used, old plates and you might not. No way to know about those X-CAL LPs ahead of time, for example.
The 1165 G2s upthread are probably fine if they were packed well, but they still have issues. Sadly, no free lunch.

Any where I can get Multicam Tropic? Can't any for bellow like $600...

>>64909045
I think you forgot a noun in here somewhere.

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>>64909045
You know what must be done.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIqjUfitpXQ

>>64909045

Can't FIND any bellow $600...

Happy anon? Or is my dyslexia too much for you?

>>64909017
I do like the concept of the t212’s but you should see the absolute state of some of the packages I get. I think it kind of boils down to spec bingo in order of:
1. Protection (minimum 1 round 855a1)
2. Extra Cheap
3. Weight (6lbs max per)
4. Drop protection (survive usps)
5. Lowest profile
Quite the delusional list. No free lunch and all of this.
>RMA
Funny you mention the RMA covers. My last set of plates had the gnarliest cover to them. It was workable but pretty awful.

>>64909107
T212s meet that list and then some. Since they're SRTs, they are not strictly held to 0101.06 drop requirements, but they meet every other mark on your list. Even 0101.06-cert and milspec plates are not invincible. Buffman potentially compromised Hesco 4403s even with his drop test. Surviving the USPS depends a lot on how the armor is packaged. $400 a set, 3x M855A1 at 2" min spacing, 4.7lb and only 0.54" thick (that's thin). Downside is that they will get blown out by .308 no problem and are strictly 5.56 up to M855A1 and 7.62x39 MSC. No BZ API, no .308 anything, no 7.62x54R anything. I don't even like its odds against 6.5CM or similar. The T212 really is not meant for rural stuff. It is a strict "street plate."
If you can raise funds more the L211, or preferably, the multi-curve M210 are much better plates, and have at least some 7.62x54R capability vs LPS. They'll stop 7.62x51 M80 but they'll go over 44mm BFD.

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Hey neetmaster, I think I found an armor company from China higher up than Militech. Zhejiang Light-Tough Composite Materials Co., Ltd, also known as LiTai. They have a boron carbide Level IV at 5lb flat for a 10x12, under 0.8" thick so drop protection is an obvious no, small cheat ring. In other words, Hesco 4800 with Chinese characteristics. Their plates seem to be like Militech and a 5mm mini-ring is common. The B4C plate is $1,200/set or above depending on quantity. 5-9 it's $550/plate. Goes down the more you buy.
Their SiC-PE Level IV is about 0.15lb heavier and 0.16" thicker than the Militech RF3 Black, sporting a built-in trauma pad, so it's seemingly better built. Same mini-cheat ring. Not bad for China really.
Pity that they seem to not have a civilian front and you have to bulk order off Global Sources.

Are Protech 2120-5 drop safe, or do I need to baby my carrier?

>>64909515
They're NIJ cert for 0101.06. They passed the conditioned test protocol, but only against 7.62x51mm M80. Whether they will withstand other business like M855A1, LPS, etc after the drop test is more dicey because the NIJ doesn't actually require that. Those threats call on the strike face more and that's the component a drop would actually damage.
5.8lb though, so no indication your plates are underbuilt.

>>64908900
And here I was going with horn or antler.>>64902023

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>>64908900
>>64909379
Thank you anons for the info/help.

>>64910796
Are you uh, gonna buy no-drop boron carbide Level IVs from LiTai? Gotta be honest, $1,200 is a solid price for 5lb IVs but man are they going to get whacked by M995.
Also, they'll need to be packed super well given they're dealing with an UNEQUAL amount of shipping and handling. The boat from CHINA will be rocky.
Verretts is selling Hesco 4800s for $1040 a plate, so it's about half the price for LiTai and spec-wise they're comparable.
Hesco 4800 is edge to edge and slightly lighter, but both are insufficiently drop protected IVs with like nada headroom.
https://www.verrettstactical.com/products/hesco-level-iv-4800-multi-curve?

They really should just flood the market with cheap M993 rated SiC plates just to blow out Hesco and Highcum. Take the LiTai SiC Level IV and increase strike face thickness by 20%, boom there you go.

>>64909971
Skyrim is for the nords... and the cats!

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>missed the mw2 urban camo gorkas

>>64912400
Ah son of a fuck I didn't even know these were a thing. SAVE ME DMGEAR.

Any LEO in here wanna show their duty belts? Boot here with no outer carrier :(

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>>64909136
That’s not exactly comforting on the drop test but as long as it’s packaged well AND the mailman gets his cookies and cigarettes it’s worth it.
>street plates
Yeah, I’m not too concerned about .308. Definite risk, but stopping 855a1 seems like a good compromise and/or at least more likely to be encountered. Is an icw srt plate even a thing? It sounds like a bad idea but I’m intrigued.
>other bad ideas
Sniper p90, the ultimate trash sniping weapon system.

>>64913012
> PS90
Patrick S. Tomlinson?! Didn't expect to see you around these parts.
> Yeah, I’m not too concerned about .308. Definite risk, but stopping 855a1 seems like a good compromise and/or at least more likely to be encountered
Hahahahahahahaha. Cops keep statistics on this sort of thing. There are shootings with .308 and similar hunting rifle threats all the damn time. There has never been a police shooting with M855A1. Not even once.
> more likely to be encountered
Literally something like 10,000x less likely to be encountered, child.

Some dude is selling a pair of SiC-PE Prime 0949s for $500 on tacswap. These are weird, mystery meat, and have some weight discrepancies but have a test report ostensibly showing M993 defeat. 7lb a plate. SiC-PE construction so that's plausible but they're only rated for M2AP.
https://www.tacswap.com/post/696b003aaed14ba9a58b198f

Also some dude is selling some kind of crackpot pair of plates. Hesco 3401 all-PE plate and a rectangle cut mystery meat Level IV from like 1997. Looks like "wear a stronger plate in the front" doctrine is still around.
https://www.tacswap.com/post/699a1f46f31e2790ea870e33

>>64913034
There are only two things consistent here: my thirst for 5.7x28 and my interest in weird plates. We must hyperfocus on stopping 855a1 and throw everything else away.

>>64913012
>That’s not exactly comforting on the drop test but as long as it’s packaged well AND the mailman gets his cookies and cigarettes it’s worth it.
They'll be fine. More plates than not have drop protection.
>Yeah, I’m not too concerned about .308.
You should, because the T212s will get blown out by it. Highly advise upgrading to L211s.
>stopping 855a1 seems like a good compromise and/or at least more likely to be encountered
You get M855A1 protection for future-proofing and possible rogue government actor issues in potential SHTF situations. It is far less common than basic .308 or basic 5.56 like M855 / M193.
Is an icw srt plate even a thing? It sounds like a bad idea but I’m intrigued.
Yeah, the X-CAL LP for example, LTC 28720, Hesco can make any plate of theirs in an ICW version, the VelSys PBZ non-standalone version, Hesco 4800LV on a technicality. Not as efficient as a standalone counterpart but makes sense if you're always running soft armor and want to avoid dead weight over spec.
>>64913034
Which is liable to change but not likely. The golden minimum trio is M80 + M193 + M855, that's what you need to mostly get by CONUS absent edge casss.

>>64913034
No child, he's not. This is why your life is already over, stalker. Wait for the knock

>>64913087
>>64913085
M855A1 is actually rarer and more expensive now than it used to be.
> rogue government actor issues
They'd fuck you up with flashbangs, burn down your cabin, load up with M995 and other exotic shit, and so on. If you're fighting a "rogue government actor" M855A1 is the last thing you've gotta worry about.

>>64913085
>and my interest in weird plates
Off to go buy some SOF ESAPIs... you go? You'd be the third guy recently with a pair of 20 year old BALCS-on-crack plates some SOCOM dude bought from Ceradyne on the unit expense card because the GEN-2 BALCS / SPEAR plate was kinda ass honestly.
>hyperfocusing on stopping M855A1
Well they're good for ten 7.62x39 BZ API so assuming the backer doesn't shit out they should be good for 12-15 M855A1 icw good IIIA. Otherwise they're akin to an ESAPI albeit no drop pro.

>>64913137
>M855A1 is actually rarer and more expensive now than it used to be.
Statistically you'll never even need your plates. We're all preparing for serious future changes in circumstances. What those circumstances will be, if they occur, nobody knows.
There are however millions of rounds of M855A1 in storage and there are concerns if supplies are stolen they'll suddenly become common. DocGKR has said it, A2 has said it, I've said it, it's a valid concern. If you just run M855 plates you're fucked against A1 at higher velocities.
>They'd fuck you up with flashbangs, burn down your cabin, load up with M995 and other exotic shit
Chasing the tungsten dragon, are we? M995 is a valid reason to stay away from boron carbide plates. It's a IV+ de facto threat for those, de facto III++ for almost everything else. It's not a problem against good Alumina or SiC Level IVs. Even some B-32 API plates can handle it and other similar rounds.
The real fucker is M993 along with 7.62 Swiss P AP. Sure, the feds can do what they did at Waco and pull a secret turbo AP out of their ass, but that's GG whatever you do. Can't stop everything, so focus on what you CAN control.

>>64913087
You’ve unlocked a whole new field of reading for me to do, much appreciated. Still learning here. At some point I may kick the soft armor obsession but you should probably expect to see more obsessing over icw plates.
>>64913137
This is all part of an elaborate insurance fraud scheme to get rogue government agents to burn my house down so I can collect that sweet insurance payout. Imagine all the armor you could buy.
>>64913150
Don’t tempt me with a good time now.

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>>64913193
Coolio. For more reading material, look into SOCOM and milspec plates and also the cream of the crop for plate collectors: old-ass super-high-end Ceradynes. Ceradyne was basically the godfather of the American ceramic body armor industry ever since Joel Moskowitz started the company in his garage in the 1960s. They, by virtue of decades of expertise and full vertical integration (they pressed their own strike faces, doping it freely, rather than buying contracted strike faces from Bitossi or Saint Gobain or CoorsTek, etc) had a huge performance edge over other armor companies that still persists after they went defunct. Their highest-end plates are, in their respective niches, still unchallenged to this day. MH3 CQB, MH3 HAP, SOF ESAPI series, Ceradyne 96034, 2572575, 5.7lb ICW IIIA M993 stopping IMP/ACT plates, etc. They were also the only company to successfully manufacture .50 BMG rated plates on a commercial level, having done so for both the Brits during the 1990s (80571), SARVIPs for US aircrews, and later improved .50 caliber plates in the late 1990s to early 2000s. They also had some absolutely freaky shit in 2000-2003 with suspected Zylon or Z-Shield backers like >>64906945.
Of course, "no free lunch" applies and these plates were extremely expensive, very rare (less than 160 Ceradyne 96034s were ever made, it's a CAG plate from 2009 or so) and several are short on drop protection.
Anyways, old-ass Ceradynes are the end of the line if you need ultimate performance, absent maybe absolute top-shelf Tencate or BAE Systems plates or MAYBE some kind of experimental from Adept like the polycrystalline diamond Colossus.
Those SOF ESAPIs (pic rel) are cropping up second hand every now and again. Vastly better multi-hit than an ESAPI but no drop pro and they need IIIA, not milspec soft.