File: 1749113851997562.jpg (126.4 KB)

126.4 KB JPG

Whats similar sounding and as good as Chopin's preludes?

File: derhöllerache.png (30.1 KB)

30.1 KB PNG

Have you ever been so mad that you hit an F6?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLs-Z47oFYw

I ask again, which has the better opening,
Puccini's Madama Butterfly
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiRYJ_9FUvs&list=PLjCUNOTbkeqp7PPPSnSfgqftp5b42wehj

or
R. Strauss' Der Rosenkavalier
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XNg4Of4h6M&list=PLjCUNOTbkeqqXH4jWee_jDOkaZobIOio8

>tfw patrician gf says I have one day to memorize the entirety of Schubert's Winterreise and be ready to sing it to her in the morning or we're done
O_O

fucked up and told a girl Ive played piano for years (I don't), what can I learn in two days that will make her believe that I can play. I picked up a $50 keyboard

>>129541897
Learn like the opening bars of dont stop believing and she'll hug you before you have to go any further

>>129541897
lol uh sounds like your best option is to get rid of the keyboard and when she comes over, if she asks about it, say "damn wish I could play you something but my keyboard is in storage/my friend's borrowing it"

>>129541915
good idea, I can say my piano is being tuned or something

>>129541926
>good idea
deception is my forte

best of luck!

>Actually we don't know what tuning Bach and other baroque composers used
Why not just assume they used what sounds best?

>>129541897
Anyone could learn to play this in a couple hours.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUcYgxGGNMI
Anything by Philip Glass is also really easy to learn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slMdU-oego4

>>129541979
Because then that'd be dishonest.

File: s-l400.png (322.2 KB)

322.2 KB PNG

Today we listen to David Briggs' transcription for organ of Mahler 5.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCKcVKQ7zPc

>>129541979
because that's subjective and we can't agree on it

I just don't like Mahler. He was proto-star wars music

>>129542314
In the same way Homer, Virgil, and Ovid are proto-fantasy literature, I suppose.

>>129542247
Neat! I don't really care for the organ but this is cool

File: file.png (154 KB)

154 KB PNG

Why do Catholic composers mog all other religions?
>Beethoven, Mozart, Bachs good work, Haydn, Palestrina, Schubert, Liszt, Mahler

Meanwhile the prodestants are sterile and lame
>Mendelssohn, Brahms (yawn!),
Thats about it

>>129542409
obviously it must be because there is some inherent truth in catholicism that inspired those composers and no other variables

>>129542438
His good stuff was under Catholicism.

>>129542443
I fucking self mogged its over

>>129542409
Protestants also have pre-atonal Schoenberg.

What are Furtwangler's essential recordings?

People were talking about Mahler so I thought id give him a try, fucking jumpscared in the first 50 seconds

>transcription by cockgremlin49
The struggles of trying to find sheet music these days.

File: file.png (359.1 KB)

359.1 KB PNG

Be real, the first time we heard Ride of the Valkyrae's was in Bugs Bunny

>>129542409
Schutz, Buxtehude, Bach (using Catholic Mass as a text does not make it Catholic), Handel, C.P.E. Bach, Mendelssohn, Schumann, Wagner, Brahms, etc. well equal the achievements of Catholics in music.

>>129542409
>Beethoven
Agnostic
>Mozart, Haydn
Freemason heretics
>Mahler
Lol

>>129543282
>Agnostic
He very clearly believed in God. His Christianity being that of a non-denominational Romantic mystic is not the same as that being an agnostic, especially since he showed such love for the Catholic expression of his faith in God.

>>129543282
Beethoven poured his heart out writing Pathetic for his love of God

File: file.png (505.7 KB)

505.7 KB PNG

Who are some sleep friendly composers?

>>129543512
Reger

File: file.png (2.6 MB)

2.6 MB PNG

>>129543512
There is a lot of good masses for that

File: sleep.jpg (9.7 KB)

9.7 KB JPG

>>129543512
I like Debussy and Bach piano music for sleep. The Goldberg Variations were written for that very purpose!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMTBrHm3FS8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNpwAZf6thY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOCSBnCvOOQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcnYbpJhpN4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gd5kUWDGyUs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L47SRue0gt8

welcome to #SleepCity

There's some other go-to composers and pieces I like when going to sleep, however it can be quite subjective, so the ones I posted I think ought to work for anyone.

Why did 19th century composers write down when to use vibrato as a special effect? How would it not just blend in with the rest of the vibrato being constantly used by the singer?

Haydn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5y0zNZb4as

truth nuke: there is not one piece where Szell has the best recording

>>129544554
Szell is the absolute worst conductor who ever lived, so yes.

>>129544554
>>129544582
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3AhaMRXuV4

>>129544744
Terrible.

>>129541739
Gotta hand it to Strauss on this one.

>More often than not, the arrogant, insufferable Karajan refused to take the complementary role and yield the spotlight to singers, overwhelming them with powerful orchestral music, leaving the singers to struggle to compete with the orchestra and ruined the integrity of Verdi's soul-stirring, great tragedy expressed by human voices.

hmm

>>129544805
It's Puccini vs Strauss, of course Strauss is going to win.

>>129544932
the Madama Butterfly opening is bomb and iconic tho

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2lbz3qxjwk

Can anyone please identify the piece playing at the very beginning of Ken Russell's Mahler when the composing hut is burning? Thanks

>>129545014
Why yes, it's Mahler.

hehe

yeah it's from
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IQDQ9Qw0bQ

Sibelius

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn0NnGNKokQ

is RachAnon around? you've done a Chopin top 10 before -- do you have a Rachmaninoff top 10? hard mode: splitting up the etudes and preludes into individual pieces

>>129546003
I don't think I've done top 10 before. My "top 10" Rach, or anyone else for that matter, wouldn't include any of the preludes or etudes at all. As I've said, logner works are my primary interest. It would be a no-brainer, boring list. Here it is (in no order): Rach 1-4, symphonies 2, 3, symphonic dances, isle, cello sonata, trio 2.
What else even qualifies here? Rhapsody? Too jazzy. 1st symphony? For people who don't like Rach. Preludes/etudes? Can't fathom prefering those over the bigger works. Sonatas, The Bells, Vespers, maybe Corelli variations? Acceptable.

>>129546199
Huh, coulda' sworn you did with the Barcarolle ranked as the best piece. Maybe I'm mixing it up. Anyway, neat!

Ponchielli

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nwx4RZM8qWs

huh, Karajan even has an Orfeo ed Euridice (Gluck) recording? now this I gotta hear

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV8TTJjxt_4

figaro, figaro...

Contrapunctus XI a 4 is the greatest musical creation to ever grace God’s green earth. That is all. (I quite like it as a quartet)
https://youtu.be/TkYOXMUBoJk

For me, it's Contrapunctus IX.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9D-98xB7Rzk

Composers who did not write any bad symphonies (exhaustive list):
1. Beethoven
2. Brahms

Everyone else has at least one dud.

>>129547585
Beethoven's 1st, 2nd and 4th are mediocre. Brahms' 2nd as well.
Mahler is literally the only composer with not a single bad or mediocre symphony.

>>129547596
>Mahler is literally the only composer with not a single bad or mediocre symphony.
1 and 8 are mediocre and 3 is just a mess.

>>129547809
the world's first Mahler 3 hater

File: celibidache.jpg (24.4 KB)

24.4 KB JPG

>Mahler wasn’t a composer, he knew very well the instruments of the orchestra and the audience is usually hypnotized by the richness of his sound but there are a lot of imperfections in his symphonies. The themes end before they should and appear when they shouldn’t. He gets lost in the developments and doesn’t know how to finish them. Apart from that, he was a liar and a traitor.

>>129547809
1st is pretty good, wouldn't call it mediocre, but that's Mahler at his lowest. 8th is indubitably a masterpiece, 3rd is even better, it's basically a whole universe compressed into a symphony. If it's a mess, then so is the universe.
Mahler is the formidable king of the symphony.

>>129547596
Brahms 2nd is excellent (superior to the 1st for sure) and Mahler's first three symphonies are all a bit too diffuse. First movement of 3 is great though.

>>129547835
>The themes end before they should
Nah. Celibidache was an awful conductor. His opinion is likewise terrible.

Handel was fat and bald

>>129547835
this guy might be the biggest pseudo intellectual that ever lived.

>>129547445
>>129547487
The Art of Fugue is a miracle.

Bach isn't better than Mozart.

Mozart isn't better than Beethoven

Karajan isn't better than Bernstein.

Beethoven isn't better than Schubert

Schubert isn't better than Chopin.

>>129549165
>>129549194
>>129549208
>>129549213
>>129549239
All true

Chopin isn’t better than Debussy

Debussy isn't better than Bach.

>>129542314
He insists upon himself

>>129548471
Polyphony is the miracle

File: Screenshot 2026-02-27 225005.png (252.8 KB)

252.8 KB PNG

Can someone explain what's going on here? (And don't roast me if this is a stupid question which it likely is.)
This is Bach's famous prelude obviously.
But in the fifth bar it doesn't play the submediant chord, instead it plays the dominant chord.
Is this a flawed score, or a different version from the one we tend to hear, or what's going on here?

>>129550130
Since it says "Die früheste erhaltene Fassing" and "BWV 846a" instead of simply "BWV 846" this score is presumably following a different manuscript from the ones typically used when creating an edition of the WTC.

>>129550130
>>129550167
this is probably the version in the Anna Magdalena book

>>129550130
Yes, in the original manuscript it is the VI. This is either a different version as the other anon suggests and/or a dumbed down version no one should ever use.

>>129542332
Ovid is fine but I do dislike Homer and Virgil’s books despite their importance.

>>129541523
What's your favorite music for jerking off /classical/? Mine's Shostakovich Cello Concerto No. 1 and Tchaikovsky 6.

>>129550319
if you dislike Homer you either read a shitty translation or you are genuinely, medically retarded

>>129550428
I can't listen to anything, it's too distracting.

File: illiad.jpg (84.8 KB)

84.8 KB JPG

>>129550497
Yeah, Homer is the peak of classic literature for sure.

>>129550319
>but I do dislike Homer and Virgil’s books despite their importance.
:O

https://youtu.be/xcqz8yNLspA?si=FDpOiF48vEnCvurQ&t=786

How did he do it?

>>129550617
step 1: be a musical genius

>>129550167
>>129550183
>>129550308
Thank you

File: My0yMTM5LmpwZWc[1].jpg (109.2 KB)

109.2 KB JPG

now playing

start of Beethoven: Piano Concerto No. 5 in E-Flat Major, Op. 73 "Emperor"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZntVTnFZd0&list=OLAK5uy_nTd79GklRVr2uSjVX0F6CCOOEa7KdfAa4&index=1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZntVTnFZd0&list=OLAK5uy_nTd79GklRVr2uSjVX0F6CCOOEa7KdfAa4&index=1

Surely one of the all-time great performances of this masterpiece.

>>129550521
>doesn't know how to read poetry
>applies modern expectations to 3000 year old work
>cried about it
literal skill issue

best German Organ Mass recording?

my current wagner obsession schedule
day A: listen to the Ring
day B: listen to Tannhauser, Lohengrin, Parsifal
day C: listen to Meistersinger, Flying Dutchman, Tristan und Isolde

then repeat with different recordings and on and on

>>129551293
Do you listen to the full Ring Cycle in a day?

>>129551359
in actuality no, usually just two parts + other music, but it worked better listing it like that

Music!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-Qx6w2XUbU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sel6kUT_y_I

>>129550645
>Surely one of the all-time great performances of this masterpiece.
it's fine

Scriabin is my beloved friend.

File: honegger.jpg (101.1 KB)

101.1 KB JPG

Why did none of you fucks told me Honegger was amazing. I specifically asked if he was any good several times of a periof of months. Fuck.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pu7NskuYF7E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2WmIoUeX1c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa5nMSrME-4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PjvRC6OGbo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAl6ZnIDwKE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqSFBwBC0S0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_73erL8o_9w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4FmuobrUs4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AR8Y8bWFSw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrDpP0Z2ojE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeqhKYRV7ug
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOJwnhuckgM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rocZ_0CayFo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcHHFH1AN_0&pp=ygUVaG9uZWdnZXIgcnVnYnkgZHV0b2l0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qFqUUQx2Ls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3hVKRbXfTY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3hVKRbXfTY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCR7yozGRBA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZqRW1fct1w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZqRW1fct1w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZJm2AEcbzI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vnhPVyMb38
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEUGLqJEfJA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpT_I8tjxbQ

>>129553823
Because no one listens to that You'll be lucky if you get Mendelssohn from me.

>>129553854
That's a strange non sequitur. Everyone here listens to and loves Mendelssohn. He's as perennial as Brahms or Mozart.

>>129553884
I know more about him than anyone.

>>129550710
No, it's bug-turd-picking. It's like cherry-picking but instead of choosing the best, often disjointed bits to make something seem more appealing than it is, you choose teensy tiny bad bits that are rare and separate from eachother in order to make something seem far worse than it is.

>>129553891
Congrats. Still a non-sequitur.

Impressed some girls by playing Rush E on the dorm piano

>>129553823
Is a motherfucker gonna have to shill an underrated/overlooked composer again? It's been a while since I was at it with Tippett, Clementi, and Chabrier

>>129553894
I remember soeone once smugly telling me they quit the Illiad, Homer, and all graecoroman myth/legend/etc after one paragraph of the Catalogue of Ships

>>129553897
No I don't think so actually.

>>129553919
>"No one listens to Honegger."
>"You'll be lucky if I talk to you about Mendelssohn, whom I know more about than anyone"
Ah yes, perfectly connected "syllogism"

>>129553932
It's about classicsal. reread our interaction and see if that helps.

>>129553823
Didn't know he had anything beyond the symphonies and string quartets. Thanks!

Never heard Chopin other than SMT Nocturne 9, 55, and that one sad one. What other works of his should I check out?

>>129554615
see
>>129535178
>>129535314

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__hMZL1uosw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuB3hWjIpPc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYHZTWq974Y

etc etc

>>129554656
Should I avoid Rubinstein

>>129554665
His recordings are famous for a reason but I don't think they're the end-all be-all, and they aren't in the best audio quality. So listen to them if you want but don't think it ends there is all I'm saying.

File: file.png (790.4 KB)

790.4 KB PNG

>play me something anon
what do you play?

New vocal-autist-and-modern-opera-hating youtube channel just dropped for me to binge watch their videos:

https://www.youtube.com/@VocalReckoning/videos

>>129554687
Females love Chopin

>>129554783
I won't buy it until I hear a conductor I like say it. Of course, you could argue they settle for what they have available, and therefore won't criticize the limited available talent, but still.

how's Barenboim's Tannhauser?

File: 71HMRHpMF-L._SL1425_[1].jpg (259.5 KB)

259.5 KB JPG

now playing

Walton: Scapino, C. 40
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kztzLsVOacE&list=OLAK5uy_ld1g1NSoSW0uUvAm-ePitj6MVd95ceAac&index=2

start of Walton: Cello Concerto, C. 65
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkRgimn90WA&list=OLAK5uy_ld1g1NSoSW0uUvAm-ePitj6MVd95ceAac&index=3

start of Walton: Symphony No. 1, C. 27
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaifaTjq8us&list=OLAK5uy_ld1g1NSoSW0uUvAm-ePitj6MVd95ceAac&index=5

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_ld1g1NSoSW0uUvAm-ePitj6MVd95ceAac

>The First Symphony was largely inspired by the composer's tempestuous love affair with the widowed Baroness Imma von Doernberg, whom Walton met in 1929 and with whom he was living on the Continent in the early 1930s. Although the work was long in gestation, with a particular delay in the composition of the finale, the result was universally acclaimed as an outstanding success, with John Ireland commenting "unlike any other English symphony, this is in the real line of symphonic tradition. It is simply colossal, grand, original, and moving to the emotions to the most extreme degree... It has established you as the most vital and original genius in Europe". Walton's star was in the descendent through the 1950's, with a poor reception to his opera Troilus & Cressida, and equally negative comments for his Cello Concerto, which was widely considered to be embarrassingly old-fashioned in it's essentially neo-romantic idiom. Commissioned by Gregor Piatigorsky (at the suggestion of Heifetz), the work was first performed in Boston under Charles Munch in January 1957, with the UK premiere under Sir Malcolm Sargent following a month later. Walton was unable to attend that concert as he was hospitalised following a car accident on the journey to London from his home in Italy. Now widely perceived as one of Walton's most important late scores, the work is performed here by Sinfonia of London's principal cellist Jonathan Aasgaard.

>>129554783
>>129554806
I will admit I hear the difference of clarity in the older examples he shows.

Jonas Kaufmann is a hack who just belts out the notes with no regard for the music. No idea how he got popular.

>>129554806
People might not be overly critical of young singers, but pretty much everyone admits that the age of 'great singing' and of 'big voices' has passed. Also interesting that Christa Ludwig said that all singers sound the same now and have no unique character even if they sing well. Shows how teaching methods have changed.

>>129554862
He's also guilty of that sinful practice known as ingolato.

File: 71wOtFHn8oL._SL1400_[1].jpg (168.7 KB)

168.7 KB JPG

I wonder what gets them to release some operas on DVD+CD and others only on DVD. It seems the most popular Tannhauser on DVD is James Levine's but it's not on CD, sad.

Don't let Bach distract you from good music.

>>129555151
Bach is the beginning and the end. There is no God but Bach.

>>129555199
But don't let that distract you from good music.

>>129554806
>I won't buy it until I hear an argument from an authority I like
Why not just use your ears? Shit is obvious.

>>129555415
I recognize there is a significant distinction between modern and older singing. The part I don't agree with is modern outright sucks. Older may be better, but modern is still good.

File: Bruckner_sy8_OC638[1].jpg (15.9 KB)

15.9 KB JPG

>there are no good women conducto--ACK!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLnYyu_tdNI&list=OLAK5uy_mITFLdGSq6j4_kr3pWMC3jk71Z8TBRvvo&index=4

>>129555444
>but modern is still good.
You are an actual retard.

>>129555480
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_gbDzvDSQw&list=OLAK5uy_mzOX7nqxJwOsPLok8PmhNA0EbpHyAWrQU&index=8

sounds great to me...?

File: 1759365041315294.png (68.8 KB)

68.8 KB PNG

>>129555470
don't even have to listen to it to know that it's shit thanks to those egregious timings

>>129555491
A bit on the slower end, yeah, but not slower than, say, Giulini or Haitink or even Sinopoli?

>>129555490
>great
You use that word way too easily. This is okay at best. The pitch is wobbly and unsteady on her voice and she really should not be using that sort of vibrato if she can't control it. She has no real power over her dynamics either, being relatively flat and sounding decidedly light even when she tries to muster volume. Also, very mediocre diction overall.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ij2AitYNYdw Nilsson easily mogs, as do most other singers from this era.

I'll grant this is mildly better than the ultra dogshit Wagnerian sopranos that I've recently listened to on Rattle's trashy recordings, but not by much. There is literally no reason to listen to it over older recordings, it offers nothing.
>>129555499
>A bit on the slower end, but not slower than these other excessively slow conductors
?

File: 91+Dtr2DvIL[1].jpg (611.2 KB)

611.2 KB JPG

huh, Szell has a Tannhauser recording? anyone heard it?

>Unfortunately, in this recording the thrill is missing. This is a fast-paced but pedestrian performance. Despite his much-vaunted perfectionism, Szell's conducting is unimaginative, blunt, and hard-edged. There is very little lyricism to be found here. And some of the singers seem miscast.
ouch!

>>129541556
Scriabin preludes, obviously.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkAvvulBDfY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3tW9U2SwQc

>>129555511
>I'll grant this is mildly better than the ultra dogshit Wagnerian sopranos that I've recently listened to on Rattle's trashy recordings, but not by much.
Rattle/BRSO Gotterdammerung when!?!?

>There is literally no reason to listen to it over older recordings, it offers nothing.
sound quality? conductor interpretation and vision? because even if hate modern singers, there's still great conductors with plenty to offer

>>129555511
>>A bit on the slower end, but not slower than these other excessively slow conductors
>?
I just meant Young's doesn't fall into the excessively slow camp, even if it is moderately slow. But I suppose what makes it excessively slow varies from person to person. I'm just saying the runtimes aren't jawdropping or anything.

>>129543512
Koechlin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SB_iK9yIlFI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Pg3zoQIrbI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xce2XP2nhWo

>>129555490
Holy shit this sounds so awful compared to >>129555511
I'm not sure how one could call such atrocity "great"

>>129541556
There's nothing quite like Chopin's Preludes, but other Chopin, Faure's piano music, and maybe Grieg's Lyric Pieces.

>>129555546
>>129555511
Yes, the Solti/Nilsson recording is stellar, but doesn't mean we ought to never listen to any others ever. And as I always say, with classical recordings it's not necessarily about finding the very best one to marry for the rest of your life, it's about variety in creative vision and performance sound. So sure, if I could only have one, I'd take Solti's, but Gatti's has plenty to offer, and manages to distinguish itself from the older staples like Solti, Bohm, Mehta, Sinopoli, et al.

>>129555549
>Faure's piano music
Doesn't sound like Chopin apart from some early pieces or short sections in some nocturnes. Scriabin is closer.

>>129555540
>sound quality
Any Decca recording at their peak is the equivalent and in many cases surpasses modern recordings, especially in terms of impact and vividness (even if the vivid quality of those Decca recordings are somewhat unrealistic)
>conductor
I mean, sure. Janowski is one of the best Wagnerians for example. And his interpretation on Pentatone for the Ring is even better than his previous Eurodisc/RCA one. But I am not able to shut out terrible singing in favor of interpretation and there are many old recordings where I don't need to make a hard choice.

>>129555572
yes but another anon already named and linked Scriabin

and might I direct your attention to
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdPetLZZs2c
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2qmcL4NUik

>>129555582
I'm familiar with the barcarolles. They don't really sound like Chopin. I also don't hear it in the impromptus. Faure's biggest influences were Saint-Saëns and Schumann.

>>129555572
Fauré and Debussy are closer to Chopin than Scriabin's meandering preludes, although his sonatas and etudes have more in common with Chopin than anyone else. In fact all 3 are closest it gets to Chopin along with Liszt, Rachmaninoff and Ravel

>>129555592
It's quite amusing to see someone call 30-90 second pieces meandering. Are you sure this isn't a problem of your attention span? But no, that's not really accurate. Early Scriabin is the most obviously Chopinesque composer of all time. I suppose early Debussy comes close. But there are literally Scriabin preludes that are obvious imitations of Chopin pieces, and it's easy to point them out. I'd recommend listening to the music before climbing peak Dunning-Kruger.

>>129555573
>Any Decca recording at their peak is the equivalent and in many cases surpasses modern recordings, especially in terms of impact and vividness (even if the vivid quality of those Decca recordings are somewhat unrealistic)
Anon, there are some who think you shouldn't listen to anything post-Keilberth for Wagner's Ring. That's the generation I'm comparing to.

There's still some minute advancements in sound quality though. You can tell Zweden's and Thielemann's Wagner Ring against, say, Solti's and Bohm's. Not so much that it makes the latter obsolete, of course, but enough to where it's some points in the modern recordings' favor.

Look, all I'm saying, and all I care about is, let's keep supporting modern and living artists. Yes, the Rings of Karajan, Solti, Bohm, and Furtwangler are incredible, and will never get old, but let's give Young, Zweden, Thielemann, Levine (RIP), etc. and their performers some love and credit too.

>>129555624
>that's the generation I'm comparing to
Many of the singers on the Keilberth Ring are still on Solti's.
>minute advances in sound quality
I mean in terms of the mics used maybe but the presentation of both Bohm and Solti's Ring is far more vivid and dramatic which suits the music. I would never prefer Thielemann's Ring in terms of sound alone.
>let's support new performers just because they're new
No.

File: szell tannhauser review.png (192.9 KB)

192.9 KB PNG

>>129555522
I always get jealous reading these reviews from people who so thoroughly know what they're talking about when it comes to recordings of classical music. Someday, me...

>>129555656
>>let's support new performers just because they're new
>No.
New AND good (if in their own way). Just because those old classic recordings may be 9-10/10s (though I think some of the really old ones ought to be capped at lower than 10 because of the sound quality), doesn't mean the newer ones which are "only" 7, 8, or 9/10 are worthless and shit. The way some people here talk, you'd think Knappertsbusch, where you can't even hear the orchestra, is a 10 and Levine's which sounds glorious is a 0 and unlistenable garbage.

I guess there's really nothing I can say to convince you all if the modern singing so utterly ruins the music for you guys. It doesn't for me, and therefore I'm able to enjoy and appreciate what new and different things modern musicians are doing with the music today.

File: 1766928081543775.jpg (469.8 KB)

469.8 KB JPG

>>129555718
>7, 8, or 9
Barely any opera recordings made in the last 20 years are higher than a 5. Your constant influx of shitty Amazon reviews has led you to have an incredibly skewed view of ratings, that Gatti excerpt you claimed as "great" being easy evidence of that. I listen to plenty of new performers, and am not exclusively interested in historical recordings, but, as far as opera is concerned, we have an objective lack of talent. I am not going to support an opera recording with interesting conducting as its bare minimum. They are accompanying. Ultimately what matters most in an opera are the singers and amongst modern recordings there is no competition there. Occasionally you hear a broadcast of an opera with provincial singers that has tolerable singing, so I do not believe it to be completely hopeless, but one of the main issues with opera is that coddling critics have totally failed in their mission to keep artists accountable for bad decisions. When Karajan put DFD into the shoes of Wotan for his Das Rheingold recording, the critics of his day were scathing. It has been brought up time and time again as the "but" of his cycle, and DFD had ten times the talent of any Wotan recorded for the past two decades.

I return to Rattle. I do not like Rattle generally. He is 9 times out of 10 a very poor conductor. However, this is a pretty well conducted Walküre. His Siegfried is even better. Great orchestral color. Urgent, forceful conducting in the vein of Böhm. The recording is vivid and I hear details I rarely make out in other recordings.

And the singing is universally complete and utter dogshit. Not just mediocre, but actual offensive dreck. I suppose even the marketing department knew this, because do you notice anything about the cover? No mention of the vocalists at all. Just Rattle and his orchestra. Because that's all that's left in opera today.

File: 1742121281556334.jpg (92.5 KB)

92.5 KB JPG

His Haydn Creation, which has better and more modest singing, has the main vocalists on the cover. The marketing department were not embarrassed.

File: folder.jpg (227.5 KB)

227.5 KB JPG

people have downloaded this version of the Brandenburg Concertos (Philip Ledger with the English Chamber Orchestra) from me on Soulseek about ten hundred billion thousand times over the past 3 weeks or so. it happens to be my favourite recording of them but is it particularly well regarded compared to others?
also these people are clearly in cahoots, there must be discussion of this recording happening elsewhere on the internet

>>129555610
It's quite amusing that you're blaming this on attention-span while you don't even know what I listen to. I have no issues with Wagner and Mahler for instance, in fact that's what I mostly listen to. Dunning-kruger comment was quite ironic too considering you don't even seem to know the harmonic language of Scriabin, which is literally meandering, especially for the preludes which don't allow it to truly grow into something else.
Maybe consider discussing something instead of chimping out like an illiterate bitch you are? Lol

>>129555825
>>And the singing is universally complete and utter dogshit. Not just mediocre, but actual offensive dreck. I suppose even the marketing department knew this, because do you notice anything about the cover? No mention of the vocalists at all. Just Rattle and his orchestra. Because that's all that's left in opera today.
kek

>>129555837
yeah that Creation is pretty dope. So are Rattle's Janacek operas.

File: 71B4ODmPueL._SL1412_[1].jpg (216 KB)

216 KB JPG

For this morning's opera performance, we listen to Verdi's Otello conducted by Herbert von Karajan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBt5oHl_Fnw&list=OLAK5uy_lKP2kjiUgwCpqvrWRtO4pWpnEYjeFdWMY&index=6

>>129555925
I haven't a clue except to say that is a perplexing situation and an intriguing question.

File: 1772035242831499.png (487.4 KB)

487.4 KB PNG

>>129555532
Thanks these are hitting the spot.
>>129555549
I've listened to most (if not all) of Chopin's catalogue at this point. Faure I've only listened to his nocturnes which were nice.
>>129555592
The Rachmaninoff preludes hit the spot for me too

>>129556470
A very good performance, even if apparently Karajan made del Monaco tone it down a bit.

>>129556538
Don't forget about Rachmaninoff's Etudes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtObD71L8Ek
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8L6CxUpBZlY

And for extra fun, some of his variations
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiDtLscGnn8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oILLr5Lg9OI

and both suites for two pianos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOxsajQmxoE

>>129556062
Do you even know what you're talking about? The discussion is about the Scriabin preludes that are similar to Chopin. Naturally, one would assume we're talking about early Scriabin here. The harmonic language of Scriabin isn't this single, homogenous thing; it goes through three significant transformations. Even if one were to accept the dilettante, surface-level-analysis premise that late Scriabin is 'meandering', early Scriabin is far from that.
>especially for the preludes which don't allow it to truly grow into something else
Preludes are by definition usually short, fragmentary and monothematic. Rachmaninoff's preludes are one of the rare exceptions to this rule.
Ultimately, this seems like a (You) problem, because your expectations are unrealistic. By your logic, Chopin's Prelude in A major, Op. 28, No. 7 is meandering, because it's so short and doesn't grow into anything. Or are there some mental gymnastics unknown to me at play here that would explain why the fragmentary Chopin pieces are fine, but the early Scriabin pieces somehow aren't.

>>129556713
>Preludes are by definition usually short, fragmentary and monothematic
Oh, and I'm obviously talking about the Prelude as standalone piece that Chopin established. And I should add 'concentrated' as well.

>>129556538
>Thanks these are hitting the spot.
You're welcome. At least some people have the fair-mindedness to enjoy them. :)

Hec what's your new last.fm username? I used your profile for recs, lass

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwKropNNeUA&list=PLmCLUrrx_kSf4VHRwAIHjEbTtrBlb7YyN

>>129556713
>Or are there some mental gymnastics unknown to me at play here that would explain why the fragmentary Chopin pieces are fine, but the early Scriabin pieces somehow aren't.
Never said they aren't fine, I just find them less Chopinesque than the usual Scriabin, and also less enjoyable. The rhythm and harmony in Chopin preludes (e.g. the A major) are pretty straightforward. This allows Chopin to have some unique element to each prelude, without overloading the music. Scriabin's rhythm is usually vague, never mind the harmony, so it all just blends into one another. I find any genre or form by Fauré/Debussy more resembling of Chopin than the Scriabin preludes. Of course, it's up to the anon to decide whatever he'll listen to(looks like he enjoyed them!), I just pointed the obvious.

>>129553884
>Everyone here listens to and loves Mendelssohn
I only recall his Violin and Piano concerto, don't think I've listened t anything else by him kek

>>129556982
You haven't listened to his symphonies, chamber music and lieder ohne worte?

>>129556982
Literally everyone and their grandma knows his wedding march.
>>129556994
His Lieder ohne Worte are a total snoozefest.

>>129557006
knowing ≠ actively listening to, theres lot of music I know that I do not put to listen to at all
>>129556994
No, may have listened to it once but don't recall ever putting to to listen to, now that I say it it's been a long time since I've listened to symphonies (or at least something with "symphony" in the title, contemporary works tend to not have that)

>>129556600
I'm quite liking it!

>>129557006
ok soullet

Best Bruckner 8?

>>129558081
Poschner

Ive been self training opera singing, how can I get a gig?

>>129558733
Post a vocaroo.

File: 1698963624191603.jpg (693.3 KB)

693.3 KB JPG

What would you consider Mozart's greatest non-opera orchestral work

>>129558764
Concerto no.23, indubitably.

The finale of Don Giovanni > all of Mozart's symphonies combined.

Hamelin is a living GOD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P60z7m7RhE8&list=OLAK5uy_kM9P0Ve0ddPj3h4cGWTl6dU93gPDenT_A

File: ElRQcWVWoAQnCyr.png (484.7 KB)

484.7 KB PNG

Are there classical music influences in the drain gang collective's work? Here is one of their songs for example
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KkMyDSrBVI

>>129556967
>Never said they aren't fine
One would assume that calling something meandering means you don't have a favorable opinion about it.
>Scriabin's rhythm is usually vague, never mind the harmony, so it all just blends into one another.
Seems like a vague criticism. Some rhythms are 'vague' (you probably mean polyrhythmic), while others are pretty straightforward. Same goes for harmony, even though Scriabin generally pushes both parameters further than Chopin ever did. But then you have examples such as Prelude Op. 11 No. 15, which is completely diatonic and rhythmically simple.
Not sure why having complex rhythms or harmony would necessarily make all the pieces blend into one another, as there are other musical parameters, as well as the character of the piece in question, to consider. Likewise, I don't see the connection in having straightforward rhythm or harmony to necessarily correlate with uniqueness.
>I find any genre or form by Fauré/Debussy more resembling of Chopin than the Scriabin preludes. Of course, it's up to the anon to decide whatever he'll listen to(looks like he enjoyed them!)
Fair enough.

File: pupsad.jpg (91.6 KB)

91.6 KB JPG

>Schumann is known to have written 5 letters to Chopin (only one letter survives), but Chopin never reciprocated. He did not care for Schumann's music,[13] and his only apparent mark of respect towards Schumann is his dedication of the Ballade No. 2 in F major, Op. 38, to him, which may have been out of politeness as much as anything. For his part, Schumann not only dedicated his Kreisleriana, Op. 16, to Chopin,[14] he also wrote his own Variations on Chopin's Nocturne in G minor, Op. 15/3 (first published 1981), in between their two meetings;[8] he wrote a respectful imitation of a Chopin nocturne in a section called simply "Chopin" in Carnaval, Op. 9; and he remained a lifelong staunch champion of Chopin's music,
>Chopin is reported to have said that Carnaval was not music at all.[9] Chopin did not warm to Schumann on the two occasions they met briefly and had a generally low opinion of his music.
What an asshole

>>129559595
From what I remember reading, Chopin did not like anyone else's music except Bach.

The worst name? Mendelsohn

>>129559681
Based

File: ChopinLiszt.jpg (26.2 KB)

26.2 KB JPG

>>129559595
An interesting thought I came across, was that the contrasting nature of the ballade no.2 (slow/serene and fast/aggressive, rondo-like structure) is in fact a nod to Schumann's Florestan/Eusebius, so it wasn't a mere dedication but acknowledgement of Schumann's artistic vision, which Schumann failed to notice, and didn't praise the ballade as much as he did the first one. I wonder how'd he comment on late Chopin though.
But yeah, Chopin wasn't cool. He was an introvert douchebag. Liszt was the exact opposite. Strangely enough, they got along quite well. Except for that one appartment occasion.
>>129559681
And Mozart, Bellini, that's about it. He wasn't a huge Beethoven fan either, which is surprising since sometimes he sounds very Beethovenian. But that just might be Bach on steroids.

>>129558081
>>129558081
Karajan/Vienna or Giulini

>>129559870
it's always Karajan isn't it

>>129559838
>introvert douchebag
He's just like me

>>129559893
K-God*

though he might not necessarily have the best Bruckner 3-6s

confession: Verdi's Il Trovatore is kinda kitsch

File: 71tWlgFmVvL._SL1430_[1].jpg (194.5 KB)

194.5 KB JPG

now playing

start of Franck: Symphony in D Minor, FWV 48
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4XeZZ3Rnxk&list=OLAK5uy_nZy0rZgGqhLTpr-7Tf22uAUsrDkpvezn0&index=2

start of Stravinsky: Petrushka
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28wj52qk7mI&list=OLAK5uy_nZy0rZgGqhLTpr-7Tf22uAUsrDkpvezn0&index=4

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nZy0rZgGqhLTpr-7Tf22uAUsrDkpvezn0

This recording ought to be in every classical fan's library.

>>129559893
Also, just to be clear, there are many, many good and even great Bruckner 8 recordings -- Karajan's isn't the only one worth checking out by a longshot. But yes if you're asking for the desert island choice, Karajan's is required listening.

>>129560128
>kitsch
Opinion immediately discarded.

>>129559870
yawn

>>129560246
>t. likes stuff everyone thinks to be kitsch

>>129559893
if you are retarded yes

>>129559904
damn you should kill yourself

>>129560292
Feel free to make your own recs

a Scriabin opera would have been fun

>>129560377
no fukin thanks

>>129560393
>t. apollonian materialist

Debussy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xr_OkDwcbPI

> Thielemann's conducting is very good, but of a generic sort, rarely achieving the heights of Furtwangler to which he aspires. He manifests yet again his penchant for pauses where they are not indicated in the scores - most damaging at the very end of Gotterdammerung. But his most offensive pause comes at Wotan's final challenge to Erda in the 3rd act of Siegfried. Wagner scored a pause here, and most conductors take it as a 2-3 second pause. Thielemann takes well over 10 seconds! DG hides the effect of this pause by inserting a disc change right in the middle of Thielemann's endless pause, but you can hear the ambient sound at the end of disc 9 and beginning of disc 10.

that's hilarious

>>129560411
blop glorp sclorp

>>129560948
>the heights of Furtwangler
God is there anyone in all of classical music more overrated than Furtwangler? Even Gould has his detractors, but Furt has a full blown cult

File: 1747532919629169.jpg (314.2 KB)

314.2 KB JPG

Can this pic be the next OP

>>129561112
to be fair the Thielemann/Furtwangler comparison is apt, but you've got a point.

>In1971, critic Deryck Cooke famously declared Furtwängler’s Ring was the “greatest gramophone event of the century”.

>>129561128
Sorry but we are overdue for another Chad Schumann

File: Nikolai Medtner.jpg (104 KB)

104 KB JPG

>Like Sibelius, Medtner does not flout current fashions, he does not even deliberately ignore them, but so intent going his own individual way is he that he is simply unconscious of their very existence... he has made for himself, by the sheer strength of his own personality, that impregnable inner shrine and retreat that only the finest spirits either dare or can inhabit.

>I love him very much, I respect him very much, and I consider him [Medtner] the most talented of all the modern composers. He is - as musician and as man - one of those rare beings who gain in stature the more closely you approach them. That is the fate of the very few!

Medtner lived outside of time, outside of trends, beyond the normal, and into the infinite realm of self-constructed beauty. Not a composer to sightsee, his methods are obscure to those who have not the patience to sit down and truly listen with intent. Only those who see further than the immediate can approach his work, a tune is never being, but always becoming. Fire exchanged for fire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhsD1MeQaXM

>>129561112
Sure. Carlos Kleiber is significantly more overrated, for instance.

>>129561277
muh beethoven 5, muh beethoven 7, muh tristan und isolde

>>129561258
Fine, I'm sold.

>>129561277
to be fair his Brahms 4 is indeed pretty good

File: 71-CRvRdsJL._SL1500_[1].jpg (209.7 KB)

209.7 KB JPG

Gould's Brahms

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWUlWQbutUI

>>129561397
I like his approach but in that vein it's not one I reach for personally.

To be clear, Kleiber is not a bad conductor. Overrated doesn't mean bad. But he has been stated time and time again to be the best conductor ever by so many people despite the rather limited repertoire he has on disc.

File: wagner-tannhauser-gergiev-00044007357576[1].jpg (795.5 KB)

795.5 KB JPG

This one any good?

>The latest product presents Tobias Kratzer’s provocative new staging of Tannhäuser, a palpable hit for the legendary Wagner festival last summer.

Being a staging director sounds like such an awesome job.

>>129561432
Obviously not.

>>129561432
this looks so unbelievably disrespectful to what I consider to be one of the greatest works of art of all time.
but it might also be funny.

>>129561423
what Brahms 4 do you prefer?

>>129561540
As someone who has only listened to it and never read the synopsis, is Tannhauser not about clowns?

>but it might also be funny.
try it!

>>129561554
it's more about how sexy women can ruin your life

Actually, while on the topic, is the whole "updating the art staging of an opera/play" a modern thing, or have people been doing it forever? Like if Wagner saw this >>129561432, would he go "oh cool, an updated production for modern sensibilities, like we did with Mozart and Handel" or would he go "wtf are you doing"?

>>129561573
Damn now I've really gotta watch it...

>>129561586
much closer to "wtf are you doing?"
it's called regietheater, look it up.

>>129561611
Oh cool, thanks.

>It can be argued[who?] that Regietheater began with the work of Wieland Wagner (1917–1966), who in the years after World War II responded to the profound problematisation of the work of his grandfather, Richard Wagner, resulting from its earlier appropriation by the Nazis, by designing and producing minimalist and heavily symbolic stagings of Wagner operas in Bayreuth and elsewhere. Guided by the theories of Adolphe Appia, Wieland Wagner's productions allegedly sought to emphasise the epic and universal aspects of the Wagner dramas, and were justified as being attempts to explore the texts from the viewpoint of (often Jungian) depth psychology. In practice this would mean, for example, that the opening act of Die Walküre (the second work of the Ring Cycle), specifically described as set in Hunding's forest hut, was presented on a stage shaped as a large, sloping disc: no hut was either seen or implied, and the composer's many detailed instructions relating to the actions of Wehwalt, Sieglinde and Hunding within the hut were disregarded because it was said that the details of the scoring meant that they were already illustrated musically.
>Wagner's grandson
so we've come full circle

>>129561432
>>129561455
>>129561540
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TNnHos-8xE

this is some weird shit

>>129561651
That overture scene just changed my life.

File: 1741492011784109.jpg (1.8 MB)

1.8 MB JPG

>>129561623
That's cope. Wieland was still very respectful to the roots of Wagnerian productions. Where it really started was with Boulez who went for a modern approach that heavily leaned into allegory for the real world.

>>129561694
Yeah that's the next example on the Wiki page
>Examples
>In 1976 the Patrice Chéreau production of the centenary Bayreuth Ring sought to make manifest an anti-capitalist and Marxian subtext recognized to be present in the work given the time of its original creation: following this conception, Wagner's mischievous Rhinemaidens became three ragged whores plying their trade near a hydroelectric dam, the gods are a late-19th century industrialist family, and Siegfried used an industrial steam-hammer to forge his sword.[6]

damn so this whole practice is really modern then. I woulda' assumed it started with Brecht and those guys at the very latest.

>>129561716
I honestly blame this for the death of opera as a popular artform

>>129561785
You don't think it's had the opposite effect? I could, for example, see someone not giving a shit about a medieval setting but if it were updated to something they were familiar with, they'd be more intersted.

> Bernard Shaw, The Perfect Wagnerite (1883) on www.marxists.org Regarding Wagner's Socialist leanings (which forced him into exile in Switzerland and France), Shaw writes that "we have reached the point at which some foolish person is sure to interrupt us by declaring that The Rhine Gold is what they call 'a work of art' pure and simple, and that Wagner never dreamt of shareholders, tall hats, whitelead factories, and industrial and political questions looked at from the socialistic and humanitarian points of view." Later, in summing up The Ring: "there is a considerable portion of The Ring, especially the portraiture of our capitalistic industrial system from the socialist's point of new in the slavery of the Niblungs and the tyranny of Alberic, which is unmistakable, as it dramatizes that portion of human activity which lies well within the territory covered by our intellectual consciousness ... Its meaning was as clear to Wagner as it is to us."
based class ally Wagner

>>129561694
Wieland already was moving in the direction the Boulez Ring when he died. That's why the Ring done in the early 70s, under Wolfgang, has a weird Japanese aesthetic.

>>129561976
Wieland was interested in Brecht:

File: 1746232271643114.jpg (30.3 KB)

30.3 KB JPG

>>129562011
Forgot quote:

>The Ring […] was not what the whole world usually took it to be – a Germanic heroic epic based on the philosophy of Schopenhauer […] for me it is, firstly, a revival of Greek tragedy; secondly a return to mythical sources; and thirdly moralistic drama in the manner both of Schiller and Brecht.
- Wieland Wagner

File: 1767101853756096.png (748.1 KB)

748.1 KB PNG

>>129561976
>You don't think it's had the opposite effect?
You honestly think anyone with self respect is interested in this trash?

>>129562031
>Frank Castorf’s staging of the Ring cycle premiered in 2013; this is from the 2016 performances at Bayreuth. The contemporary setting equates oil to gold, hence the Vorabend is set at a gas station on Route 66; Die Walküre is set in Azerbaijan, as Baku was seized by the Bolsheviks in 1929 for its oil and later was a tempting target for the Nazis. Siegfried finds itself at both Mount Rushmore and Berlin’s Alexanderplatz, while finally Götterdämmerung is somewhere in the GDR, before closing at the New York Stock Exchange.

...

>So much, so sleazy. It all fits, of course, the greed of the Gods and Alberich could hardly find a more apt setting. Wotan is something of a gang leader; this could as easily be a spin-off of The Sopranos with the greatest soundtrack ever (sometimes it veers towards Goodfellas), or with its cowboy hats (Donner) it might be a particularly malicious series of Dallas that occurred in a parallel reality. And Dallas did have oil rights at its centre, Garish hardly covers this production, and yet it transfixes. The gold glows from below the swimming pool; there appear to be slivers of cheap gold leaf (or even imitation gold leaf from Poundland) floating in the water; a swooping ledge in the pool perhaps suggests the winding trajectory of the river.

hehe sounds fun

>>129561551
>Stereo:
Beinum
Klemperer
Stokowski
Markevitch
>Mono
de Sabata
Furtwangler (1948)
Paray
Busch

>>129562135
>Stokowski
but it's a total mess.

>>129562148
We've had this conversation before.

>>129562148
if you hate fun, maybe

>>129562152
maybe but i'm obliged to point out that the Stokowski Brahms 4 really is one of the all time worst recordings.
>>129562171
Markevitch has as much energy and doesn't destroy the inner voices. what's fun about Brahms without inner voices?

File: 71dCoGoNRlL._SL1000_[1].jpg (214.7 KB)

214.7 KB JPG

now playing

start of Brahms: Symphony No. 3 in F Major, Op. 90
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxIM7A_1zDU&list=OLAK5uy_lMZ1cG2qlzrn24T5rbtH9W7TcHnFtQFiM&index=2

start of Brahms: Symphony No. 4 in E Minor, Op. 98
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YivYXxThwB4&list=OLAK5uy_lMZ1cG2qlzrn24T5rbtH9W7TcHnFtQFiM&index=5

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lMZ1cG2qlzrn24T5rbtH9W7TcHnFtQFiM

Released in 2022.

>>129561128
He's pointing at us....

>>129562183
I prefer the live one anyways which doesn't suffer from the weird folded quad sound.

Just to be clear, when you guys say modern Wagner singing sucks, what's the rough cutoff? Where do Barenboim's recordings fall? Because this sounds glorious to me,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYnCnst-HT0&list=OLAK5uy_kIbCEJUdJI8HWEwfoBT1ufkkUU27CnnYs&index=19

>>129562371
This is fine. There were still good singers floating around until the late 90s or so, even if those performances tended to creep more into inconsistency. Barenboim's Wagner does tend to have more good singing than not, especially compared to today. Although I wouldn't say that there is a uniform excellence across all his cast members unlike what we would get in the 30s-60s.

>>129562402
Thanks for the answer. So pretty much anything recorded in the internet age/since the advent of 4chan.

I should warn you, the next Lohengrin I'm gonna try is B*chkov's, which came out in 2009, so don't be surprised if in a few days we're arguing about it as I try to say I like it and you say it actually sucks.

sample
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbo_2lFqyB0&list=OLAK5uy_liobAcD3F_jMdBjRN6rWZ7Yuxygbt9Ftw&index=17
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnYW79d5ecw&list=OLAK5uy_liobAcD3F_jMdBjRN6rWZ7Yuxygbt9Ftw&index=25

Rachmaninoff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pzvkj1PHBAc

Kleiber's Beethoven 5th is THE Beethoven 5th and no amount of impotent contrarian screeching will change that.

>>129562551
It's good but it's certainly not "one recording to rule them all"-good, and especially from someone who doesn't even have a full cycle, its reputation is a bit baffling.

here comes the bride, here comes the bride...

>>129562551
Chailly

>>129562371
the 2000s

>>129562689
Levine's Ring is no good?

If I lived in Iran, I'd be putting on a performance of Shostakovich's 7th Symphony, 'Leningrad' right now

>>129562707
it's pretty good actually, other than him being too slow sometimes. But it's one hell of an exception

File: 1763825099213610.png (2.7 KB)

2.7 KB PNG

>>129562732
>other than him being too slow sometimes
He's always too slow.

>>129562732
>>129562763
He's one of my favorite opera conductors :3

Maybe even more than Sinopoli and Barenboim!

>>129562763
Looking at the total runtime is not a good way to judge how slow a performance feels

>>129562785
To an extent, yes. But in Levine's case he's +1 hour on already slow performances. Also it's not really like he utilizes a girthy amount of rubato anyways.

>>129562551
You are talking about Erich Kleiber here, right?

I don't listen to Levine because he's so ugly.

File: 71Wse1Emr9L._SL1500_[1].jpg (132.9 KB)

132.9 KB JPG

For tonight's opera performance, we listen to Verdi's Rigoletto conducted by Sir Georg Solti

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1gMSUv_MhM&list=OLAK5uy_m7USjvPoPAdJrBxq_lIHaY4GdF6UlY9p8&index=11

>>129562809
Not the boylover, sexual assault allegations?

File: 1746867011812571.png (69.8 KB)

69.8 KB PNG

>432 Hz

>>129562551
Hot, steaming garbage.
>>129562802
Maybe, if he had any taste.

brahms

File: 1700665233993.jpg (2.2 MB)

2.2 MB JPG

Is there such a thing as a wagnerian oratorio? I mean specifically something which utilizes Wagner's idea of continuously flowing music that isn't broken up into numbers?

>>129565091
Gerontius and Elgar's other oratorios. It was appreciated in Germany before Elgar achieved British fame after a performance in Düsseldorf due to its Wagnerian influence.

>>129565091
Am I dumb or is that not most oratorios? Maybe I don't understand what you're asking.

>>129565222
Classic oratorios like those of Handel and Mendelssohn are broken into airs and choruses and recitatives like operas are.
>>129565091
Actually that reminds me that another to check out pre-Wagner is Louis Spohr's Die letzten Dinge. It's not Wagnerian of course but it has continuously flowing music and leitmotifs too. Very clearly an influence.

File: 61OELKG53NL._SL1400_[1].jpg (118.4 KB)

118.4 KB JPG

For this morning's opera performance, we listen to Puccini's La Boheme conducted by Sir Georg Solti

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUxTeDfNlcM&list=OLAK5uy_nIUHGITGdpil9zPKQ1KdnJciSd1k9w_dM&index=10

I almost started listening to Keilberth's 1955 Ring but I figured I ought to take a break from Wagner for today.

>>129565243
>Classic oratorios like those of Handel and Mendelssohn are broken into airs and choruses and recitatives like operas are.
I get that, plus Haydn's and Bach's. But then every other oratorio past the classical age doesn't is what I mean lol.

>>129565281
The vast majority of oratorios before ~1850 or so, including the most prominent in the standard repertory, isn't most oratorios.

File: 61GzP6+fAKL._SL1200_[1].jpg (105.4 KB)

105.4 KB JPG

now playing

start of Bruckner: Symphony No. 4, "Romantic" (Original 1874 Version)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmqXba0pN5A&list=OLAK5uy_mjGCXBAXFxczhWACouV4p5tRd5DbhdJVU&index=1

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mjGCXBAXFxczhWACouV4p5tRd5DbhdJVU

File: 819yEPCb0RL._SL1500_[1].jpg (378.5 KB)

378.5 KB JPG

>>129565307
I meant every oratorio past that point fits the desired criteria.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9q2JK1hx85A&list=OLAK5uy_mOsE8eKAPw7rkNfmNWltUb8sO5TH-Dm0g&index=1

This one is stellar.

>>129565380
>female conductor

>>129565411
yep. she has a mighty fine Bruckner 2.

I'll never understand how my brain works regarding these phases and binges. Right now I'm primarily into opera, and if I tried listening to even an eight minute piano piece, I'd struggle to get through it without feeling that physical sensation of pressure in my brain telling me to change to something else, yet I can put on a 2-4 hour opera and listen through it no problem. So bizarre. And then one day out of the blue it'll rotate its fixation again and I'll be listening to hours of piano music no problem while being unable to make it through a single opera scene without dying to turn it off.

>>129565393
I like Schumann's Faust and Das Paradies und die Peri, but they're not really representative of popular 19th century oratorios from Mendelssohn, Spohr, and Hiller, nor fully Wagnerian in the way the question implies.

File: 61BFj7RVynL._SL1000_[1].jpg (69.7 KB)

69.7 KB JPG

>>129565483
Then I must not understand what you/they are looking for. Here's two more oratorios,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNrmRreEffs&list=OLAK5uy_lEPD-PuqxvRx918FSxFgwML9KLLRTEUtU&index=1

and the amazing Vaughan Williams 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieWsBIuRwOg&list=OLAK5uy_lD3dg5QLqq_jtxB9iwsrXNr5doGdEIu6I&index=1

>>129565091
Liszt's Christus

>>129565497
A Wagnerian oratorio utilising Wagnerian ideas by definition isn't going to exist pre-Wagner. Schumann's Romanticism with its emphasis on continuous fantasy is a convergent resemblance rather than directly influenced. Some other 'new music' like Berlioz's L'enfance du Christ is doing something different from Wagner. Even once Wagnerian ideas reach public consciousness, which isn't really until past the midpoint of the century, you can trace the diffusion of influence in e.g. Sullivan's Golden Legend, which is still kind of 'half and half', incorporating continuous music but also discrete choruses and arias/duets that one could easily extract (Parry's Job with its long soloist part is also interesting here re: influence on Elgar). Point is, most oratorios are not 'Wagnerian' in the full sense of that word.

>>129565509
More like Anus LMFAOOO

File: Shosty.png (1.4 MB)

1.4 MB PNG

Was Shostakovich just aura farming his entire career?

You guys always talk about Wagner so I think im finally ready to check him out, can you recommend some stuff that isn't opera

>>129566610
Lol

>>129566610
No.

>>129566610
Overtures and preludes

File: 81BQI+McM3L._SL1500_[1].jpg (260.1 KB)

260.1 KB JPG

>>129566610
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39KqWiKStoM&list=OLAK5uy_lBJVlMsY487gD6IHWtI1JncCxjFOWiFSU&index=1

and this Overtures and Preludes set
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtGfwdIb11Y&list=OLAK5uy_lBjfGRzkp2Shl_x8R38xCfzjXAgnl9N90&index=1

what's fun is tons and tons of conductors have their own recordings of many of the overtures and preludes, so many interpretations to explore if you like them; the linked set is the best one to start with though, followed by the Solti "Orchestral Favorites" set -- ah might as well link that too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GhGuEW4k5w&list=OLAK5uy_ma9fa1xAhUcd22YSPuyfRclvFJTKeRsJo&index=4

Enjoy!