>>1511637
On behalf of all Germans I’d like to say good riddance

>>1511637
Sorry for the wall of text, but here are my thoughts as a foreigner just in case: it seems that americans see us as slaves, not allies.

Over the last year you have, among other things:
>started a trade war with us
>threatened to annex our territories (Greenland)
>lobbied Brussels against producing our own weapons on behalf of your defense companies (as you don't actually want us to be autonomous)
>sanctioned EU officials for enforcing EU laws within the EU
>started a war without consulting with us, then used the threat Russia poses to the eastern countries as blackmail to get us to join it
>fucked our economies

Look, I get it, you need to blame us for your issues, both domestic (it's convenient for the US Republican Party to justify its persietent resistance to social reform by pretending the entire military budget of the US goes to "defending Europe", while ignoring the gargantuan spending that funds INDOPACOM and CENTCOM), or the latest narrative, which is that it's our fault that the Strait of Hormuz is closed.

Just understand one thing: we may be weak and in decline, but we are not yet slaves you order around. This blackmail is useless and reeks of desperation: we are not getting our warships blown out of the sea because you (and Israel) aggressively fucked up and no longer control the situation.

Ask yourselves: if opening up that waterway were so easy, why hasn't your huge, powerful navy done it already?

Last, but not least: we assisted you when you were attacked by al-Qaeda and occupied Afghanistan for two decades. This time NATO is under ZERO obligation to assist the United States, given that it ATTACKED a country that falls OUTSIDE the scope of the alliance. Just like it did not assist France in Algeria, just like it did not assist Britain in the Falklands.
And if we're being honest, since the end of the Soviet Union the main purpose of your bases in Europe has been to enable you to bomb the Middle East to play petrodollar diplomacy.

>>1511637
So we've taken out the troops that were supposed to secure US interests in Germany, including most notably our some of our closest nuclear weapon storage to Russia and China, in favor of "not protecting Germany" even though they were there for our benefit instead of theirs.

Good fucking job Trump. You're really punishing them by taking out the troops we insisted on putting there.

>>1511646
>>1511653
Russian/Republican shills spotted

>>1511646
And on behalf of Americans that have been stationed to Germany, scheisse Deutchland. Nothing would make me happier than to close down every base we have in Europe and pull out of NATO. Then we can watch you put up with Russia testing your airspace when you can't even keep 1/3rd of your Luftwaffe in the sky. It won't be our problem anymore and we won't have to put up with anymore of your protests outside our base gates.

>>1511653
>And if we're being honest, since the end of the Soviet Union the main purpose of your bases in Europe has been to enable you to bomb the Middle East to play petrodollar diplomacy.
You know what, anon? I actually agree with you (and I am pissed with Trump). Which is another reason why I want these bases shut down - so we can pull out of the Middle East forever and go back to an isolationist stance. Let some other country try to keep stability in the world while Israel and Iran throw nukes at each other, Russia takes back eastern Europe, and China gobbles up Taiwan. I'm tired of people like me being sent overseas, to countries full of people who hate us, so we can fight in endless wars trying to develop third-world nations like Afghanistan. All the money and lives we pissed away there trying to make it a democracy - and for what? So people like you can bitch about "your assistance" standing around doing nothing in the northern part of the country? I can't believe this shit when I looked this up just now, 59 deaths only in that entire 20 year war? Compared to over 2,400 US deaths?

Nah, fuck that. It's long past time we pulled out of NATO completely and have our military focus solely on protecting our borders.

Der vill be a 4th Reich!
I vas wrongt und slavs are ><90% Aryan, especially ze Rus Norse Vikings dat created Russia.
Zis, alonk vit da ashkeNAZIs in Israel who is mostly Rus, vill be led by Germany to create this new world order.
American Mongols will be the Slav's slaves

>>1511669
You’ll have to keep voting Trump in if you want to leave NATO, which means you’ll have to support Israel. If you put Democrats in charge they’ll never leave NATO, but they won’t support Israel either.
I think you’re alright, this isn’t aimed at you I want to say is that it seems to me that most Americans don’t understand things on a fundamental basic level, like Europe and what that is and what NATO is and who’s in it and where those countries are and how NATO can work and what it was for and why all these people went to America from Europe in the first place, all these pertinent things which Americans mostly don’t have proper knowledge of.
For example, Trump wants war with Iran and the best way to supply this war with Iran from the air is through Europe and you already have all these bases ready to go and some of the countries that let you refuel and stuff aren’t even asking any questions they’re just letting you go through no problem right, that’s what’s been the case since Bush started the War on Terror. Ok so then why the fuck would Trump, knowing he is going to have to make war on Iran, go to such great lengths to piss off every single ally he has in Europe and NATO with all the tariff bullshit and talking shit about how bad everything supposedly is in Europe and threatening to take Greenland and annex Canada and all this stuff like allowing the Israelis to just shoot and rape and bomb tents and him blockading the strait when the Iranians were opening it and everything which is only making it harder for him to prosecute the war in Iran because now you’ve got not only the people of Europe but also all the governments.
I’m wondering if Russia tomorrow marches into Estonia and NATO goes all in against Russia, will Trump say he’s not helping. It’s just weird, he’s gimping his own military actions seemingly for no reason and there must be a reason and Russia going Baltic makes more sense than Trump invading Greenland

>>1511669
There was a world order before World War II that allowed America to be isolationist.
Europe used to be the seat of global power. Nobody forced the US to dismantle European colonial empires to take Britain and France's place as the global hegemon. Nobody forced it to kick its former European allies out of Suez and the Levant to control the Middle East. Nobody forced it to share that power with the Soviet Union. Nobody forced it to contain soviet influence from South America to East Asia, once the Soviet Union became its main opponent.

Everything you do is done for your own gain, and every solution to a problem spaws a new one. Disarming Germany and Japan created the issue of not having them fall to the Soviet Union and China once their disarmamant was complete. Delocalizing to China to cripple the USSR made China an industrial power. Assisting the afghan mujahideen created the Emirate of Afghanistan. Removing Saddam created the "Shia corridor" to Lebanon. Killing the Ayatollah seems to have caused Iran to take control of the Strait of Hormuz.

The ride never ends because history never does, decide whether you want to stay on board or sit it out, but remember that no one forced you to ascend to superpower status to reap the benefits that came with it. Out.

>>1511691
>but they won’t support Israel either.
God, I wish.

>>1511699
What benefits that came with it? The last 25 years of the war on terror haven't made us any safer or as free as we once were. Nothing we've done has made the average US citizen better, which is why I want us out of this game for good. And yes for the poster above you, I'm going to keep voting for people like Trump until we finally get a politician (however unlikely) that keeps his word and pulls us out of NATO.

>>1511701
you're literally not american

>>1511701
lmao how is the war on terror NATO's fault? We literally started it and dragged them in. The only time NATO has been called to defend an ally was when we called them.

>>1511704
You're not hearing me anon. I want us out of NATO so our politicians can't send us off to forever wars in the Middle East, for no benefit to the American public, so we can spend billions of dollars each year dying for Israel. Like the other anon said earlier, and he is correct, we use those bases in Europe to hop troops to and from the desert. Getting rid of those bases makes it so that it's not cost-effective to send soldiers there for another 20 years.

>>1511707
NATO literally isn't helping us and we're still doing it. All leaving NATO is going to to is make the bill bigger.

>>1511707
Nothing about fighting a war across an ocean and a continent for the benefit of Israel alone is ever going to be cost effective.
You need to figure out what was the benefit for America of staying in Afghanistan for 20yrs, and toppling Saddam and Gaddafi and Assad, and the civil wars in Yemen and Sudan.
I do not think you have more freedom now than you did in the late 90’s. You have more billionaires and wealth gap and shittier public services and more poverty in a real sense and the highest rate of incarceration in the world

>>1511714
>NATO literally isn't helping us and we're still doing it.
By sending troops through NATO bases. How the fuck do you think we get them downrange?

>Nothing about fighting a war across an ocean and a continent for the benefit of Israel alone is ever going to be cost effective.
Getting rid of the main hubs they use to rotate troops in and out is going to make that option LESS cost effective, which makes our government less likely to do it. The only reason we're able to force project into these places are because of the bases we keep overseas.

>>1511701
>What benefits
The US dollar became and still the global reserve currency, America gained leverage over major oil exporters in the Persian Gulf and the power to meaningfully sanction countries, other entities and individuals as a result of said dominance of the dollar. It also gained influence over semiconductor chokepoints. Etc.
>Nothing we've done has made the average US citizen better
They do so indirectly. For instance, the dollar being the global reserve currency makes imports cheaper and lowers borrowing costs.
The point is that you're not doing these things for free.

>>1511725
>Getting rid of the main hubs they use to rotate troops in and out is going to make that option LESS cost effective, which makes our government less likely to do it.
lmao if they cared about the price of their stunts they wouldn't have started this war.

>>1511725
My point is that they don’t care about the cost. Just look at how much this current war with Iran has cost and they don’t give a shit.

>>1511691
>If you put Democrats in charge they’ll never leave NATO, but they won’t support Israel either.
You'd be hard pressed to find a single member in the entire US government that doesn't put Israel above American interests. Left or right. It doesn't matter. They all think Jesus is coming back to life, and need to secure the holy land for his arrival.

>>1511729
But they do care about the cost.
They care about making money via giving themselves contracts or buying into the companies that are getting the contracts.

>>1511735
I don't know where this "Democrats don't support Israel" comes from. Biden had the most jewish administration in history before the current Trump administration. Expect the next Democrat president to go full super giga Israel dick sucking

>>1511739
Yes you do. It's a strawman in your script you're supposed to question, because you're a little both sides bitch.

Would establishment "dems support israel"? Absolutely. Israel is our foothold on the oil supply our some of our greatest enemies would want to use to power their war machines in WWIII. There is no fucking way we are ever leaving Israel, its one of the most strategically significant places in the world. Both sides are going to capitulate to it. A bunch of stupid faggots abstained in the last election and allowed seditious red-hatted retards to seize control of the country based on this issue.

Would literally any Dem pre-emptively strike Iran because they 'got intel' Israel intended to strike first, starting a massive farce of a war to distract from their pedophilia?

No, that'd be fucking retarded. Nor would they blow up piece talks based on their fragile egos being humiliated.

Fuck your both sides bullshit, christofacist despotic conservatism is objectively, quantifiably worse.

>>1511748
>Would literally any Dem pre-emptively strike Iran because they 'got intel' Israel intended to strike first, starting a massive farce of a war to distract from their pedophilia?
Yes, because they would be operating on intelligence provided to them by Israel, and most voters on the Left don't go deep in the paint on identity politics like leftoids do.

>>1511737
That’s not “the cost”, and you’re correct about the other thing

We will come back later to the issue of whether the Democrats, as a collective, will continue to support Israel. There’ll be a news article soon and we can get deep into the weeds on it

>>1511739
Chuck Schumer would've saved us.

>>1511748
Make your shilling less obvious

>>1511802
Please do because the Democrats need to be the only anti-Israel side if they hope to survive this presidential term. If both sides are going to be "Well we would have invaded Iran too but we would have only sucked 4 of Netanyahu's toes" then there is no hope for a Dem ticket ever again.

>>1511802
Considering Dems actually have members who don't support Israel and want them to lose support, as opposed to Reps who are near universally in support...

Just curious is German media painting this as "Germany succeeds in getting American troops to leave"?

>>1511874
https://www.dw.com/en/merz-not-giving-up-on-germanys-relationship-with-us/a-77026062

>>1511739
The most Jewish county in America just voted against AIPAC's candidate in the democratic primary there.
They even came behind the ultra pro-Palestinian candidate, so it's not the monolith everyone thinks it is.

>>1511916
>the monolith
???
Diaspora jews don't want the same thing as zionist jews. The former are international leftists, the latter are ethnonationalists.

>>1511727
>cheaper imports
Like those things we used to boycott because we didn't need or want them?

>lower borrowing costs
You mean that thing that normalizes inflation and helps the central bank usurp national authority? Where's the part where we're supposedly better off for this?

>The point is that you're not doing these things for free.
Free? No, try -39 tril.

Every complaint in your first post would be effectively addressed if you dealt with Russia by yourself. And if you end up doing that, try not to whinge at us the same way that Trump is doing to you right now about "not being good allies", because at the moment I don't quite put it past you to do so.

>>1511637
>America had 5,000 troops in Germany
For what purpose?

>>1511937
We actually have like, around 40k. This isn't all of them.

If you wanna know why, it's to man all the forward bases we have set up there to act as launching points whenever we want to do something in Europe. They are NOT there for Germany's protection, we asked for them to be there to make it easier for us to operate. So this is a complete fucking own-goal.

>>1511926
>Every complaint in your first post would be effectively addressed if you dealt with Russia by yourself.
Man I miss when MIGAmorons weren't trying to actively re-create the soviet bloc through their negligence. Remember when we were trying to tempt people to not side with Russia? Good times.

>>1511948
Revisionist

>>1511965
It's reality anon; the primary reason those bases are there are to operate as central hubs for foreign conflicts. They do provide some protection for Europe because they mean fighting Europe means fighting us, but that's a symbiotic factor to get them to agree to hosting them. The primary basis for putting those bases there has always been to give us forward operating bases.

I'm not sure how USA will be "great again" when reducing their (military) presence in the world and constantly damaging their reputation, insulting allies and be close friends with Russia and so on... but ok, they voted exactly for this with Trump, so I guess they are happy now.
Good thing is, here in Europe, the Countries have to get more and more independent of the USA if they want it or not. Building up their own military, with their own resources. This may hurt US Companies but again, USA wanted it that way. Good luck to find new markets for selling their stuff.
The irony is: the political left in Germany always wanted to get rid of US troops here... so Trump mow does exactly what they wanted he may be get really popular now in the "leftist" political side. xD I hope someone will tell him these news directly.

>>1511637
why not just draft blue state cunts, we need the troops in germany to prevent the EU from siding with russia

>>1511966
Not reality. You're mostly right about the reason the bases are there in Germany today and the benefits but you don't know the history of why they're there in the first place, or you're ignoring it or something

>>1512000
Actual retard

>>1512007
can't trust any of our "allies" we need to have armed troops on the ground incase they defect

>>1512004
Most of these bases weren't put there in the aftermath of WW2.

>>1512015
>We can't trust our allies when we do things they laid out ahead of time they won't help us in and then they don't help us with them when we beg

>>1512019
you sound like a backstabbing traitor, I hope you get put on the frontlines

>>1511920
So it's liberals verses fascists, again.

>>1512021
Yeah because treason is when you marry your wife and then she doesn't join in when you have an affair.

>>1512016
Makes no difference. The original reason and purpose is why the Germans allow it, if they decide they don't want US bases in Germany then what do you think will happen

>>1512070
>The original reason and purpose is why the Germans allow it
And now they're not, meanwhile the other benefit is why we opened most of them and is why we kept them going well after it became clear the German government wasn't gonna start shit again. This is a loss for the US; we need those bases there more than they do.

>>1512024
its when she holds you at gunpoint and demands everything or you die
I hope you get drafted and perish

>>1512077
your mother has given up hope on you

>>1511963
>Remember when we
Who tf are you with?

>>1512071
>This is a loss for the US; we need those bases there more than they do.
Its hilarious, I bet Germany was wondering how to draw down this agreement after Trump showed we're bipolar loons.

>>1512071
>>1512140
>we need those bases there more than they do
For what specific reason? Globohomo?

>>1512143
Something something strategic interests and multipolar world order

>>1512071
>after it became clear the German government wasn't gonna start shit again
When was this? Seriously. That's not the whole reason either
>>1512140
It's not exactly an agreement, the Germans surrendered so it's an occupation force

>>1511926
>that thing that normalizes inflation and helps the central bank usurp national authority
this is some advanced /pol/tard retardation

As a German I will say that having US troops here is mutually beneficial for both the US and Germany. So anyone posting shit like >>1511646 is either being cheeky (which I can totally understand) or has no idea what they are talking about. But Americans who think those troops are here as a free handout to Germany are equally as retarded.
Especially because a year ago I would have understood the argument that America doesn't want to be a global empire anymore and will go full isolationist. But starting shit in Iran has shown that that's clearly not the case.
>>1511654
Also it's not like there's just 5000 Americans chilling in Germany with nothing to do. They have lots of infrastructure that was expensive and time intensive to build up, you can't just move all of that by cargo plane overnight