>>28854588
Because new stuff is dogshit.

Cars in the 2000s & 2010s have turned out to actually be pretty fuckin reliable, new cars are both ruinously expensive and terrible from an aesthetic and user experience perspective thanks to an unholy trifecta of marketing bros pushing an endless monthly payment system rather than owning outright, designers pandering to Chinese markets and Software/UX teams being beaten into following Tesla and putting capacitative touchscreens and apps into every fucking feature of the car.

There will be some high profile collapses and people will eventually figure out the tech that people actually like (e.g. adaptive cruise control) Vs shit that people will actively hate (e.g. lane keeping assist)

>>28854592
And then people will start actually buying new cars again. Right now they don't need to as their shit box from 2016 still actually does everything they want it to, including car play, and will carry on doing it for another 100k miles.

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>>28854592
lmao remember when boomer retards were like "the computers will break!!!!11 the screens will die!!!111"

meanwhile even late 90s-early 2000s chryslers are still rolling around

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>>28854589
/Thread

>>28854588
I see a lot people over paying for used vehicles. They think they're smart and "skipping the depreciation" by buying a 4 year old vehicle with 50k+ miles on it for $3k less than the new sticker price. People are obviously going to ask for ridiculous amounts when people are willing to pay that. Blame the buyer, not the seller.

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>>28854588
my rule is if the car costs more than it did in gran turismo's used car dealerships then it's overpriced

One thing I don't see get talked about enough is the maturity of the US used car export market which over the past 15 years has created a price floor which did not exist 30 years ago in quite the same way. Each year more cars get shipped out than the during the three year long cash for clunkers program so it really adds up over time.

>>28854589
Sad but true.

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>>28854588
Living standards are deteriorating fast, things aren't getting more expensive, you (and everyone else) are slipping into poverty

>>28854744
Or maybe people are just bad with money?

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>>28854588
sports cars are cheap right now. Just buy a sporty + practical car and rent a truck when you need one for home depot runs.
>picrel: manual v8 aston martin vantage for $19,500 with 49k miles

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>>28854745
shut the fuck up kike.

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You can buy a WRX from japan for $5,000 and then spend $2-3k importing it to the US and you now have a: reliable, fun, practical daily driver with cheap & plentiful parts support.
>picrel

>>28854875
This thing would get drug by a 350z there's a reason they're cheap as fuck

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I don't normally recommend used BMWs, but you can get a used 2-series for under $10k if you want to take a risk, or $10-15k for cleaner examples (multiple on autotrader for cheap as well). I recommend the manual transmission (more reliable & better resale); very fun, practical car.

>>28854882
>Stock Nissan 350Z models generally achieve 0–60 mph in 5.3 to 6.0 seconds, depending on the model year, engine
>The 2006 Aston Martin V8 Vantage, equipped with a 380-hp 4.3L V8 engine, achieves a 0-60 mph time of approximately 4.8 to 4.9 seconds
Vantage also has a dry-sump engine so you can track it without oil starvation issues. The Z has a 53/47 F:R weight distribution and has brake fade issues. The Aston has 50:50 weight distribution and an aluminum chassis, with a lot of the weight in-board (front-mid engine & transaxle setup) so despite the extra luxury features it weighs about the same as the Z.
If the Aston were $80k and the Z were $20k you might have a point, but when it's a $5-10k price difference the Aston is a no-brainer.

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>>28854588
>Why is the used car market so atrociously overpriced ?
New cars are too expensive so they flooded the used car market with infinite subprime loan money. The issue is that auto demand is inelastic so when normies get poor, they shift from ruining their life with a shitty new car to ruining their life with a shitty used car.

Until that spigot of dirty subprime pleb money gets turned off, prices will remain high since Americans will max out their spend to what the bank allows them to get.

The American debtor is getting badly tapped out on loan amounts though, because insurance ACVs are about 40% lower than retail prices for 2026. If the banks won't gamestop them, their insurance provider will curbstomp them after they send off a really harsh lowball and a big fat middle finger. It's the actuarial way to tell normies to stop going upside down on the loan straight off the lot.

What does that mean? ACV has a price delay that doesn't translate to retail until about 8-12 months after they drop payouts like a hot potato. You're going to see prices stay gay for a while.

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$7k for a mazdaspeed3 (practical, fun car).

>>28854875
>>28854884
These anons are right. I originally was looking for a boring ass NPC commuter to get to work with and was dismayed by people asking 15K for ten year old, 150K mile civics. Ended up just getting a Mustang GT for the same price and have been enjoying it ever since with just basic maintenance. Car market only sucks if you buy shit other faggatoid normies want.

>>28854895
>mazdaspeed3
Nah, they need a Mazda 5 for half the money. A $7k spend before tax refund time is financially ruinous for the average normie. They may have to take out yet another Klarna loan to buy their McBeetus.

>>28854588
excess credit availability.

>>28854898
>Car market only sucks if you buy shit other faggatoid normies want.
yup, it's like this every recession. Cool cars / sports cars tank in value while used civics and NPC-mobiles stay high because NPCs who would normally buy new are now buying used, and everyone is trying to be "smart" and buy something practical, so this destroys demand for fun cars. Then the fed prints money and those sports cars shoot up in value as people get money again.
>this does not apply equally to richfag cars, as they are continually expanding their wealth at the expense of everyone else, and this translates to more hypercars being sold & higher prices on classic ferraris etc.

economy bad

>>28854588
It started with the GFC in '08 when there were several million cars not produced but scrappage and loss rates remained the same leaving a used car market that was tens of millions units smaller than it had been. That was the first bump in price.

By Covid the used car deficit had largely been erased but not completely and those "Two Weeks" (lol) did about as much damage to new car supply as the GFC had. Then factor in the government just throwing trillions into the economy setting off an inflationary spiral we're still living with, coupled with a sea change in corporate attitude from "make it good and make it cheap and we'll get ALL the customers for life" to "fuck it. ALL the money in the bag, NOW!" Which is where we are now and for the foreseeable future. So now you've got boomers buying a smaller amount of new car with home equity and not caring how they're getting ripped off which keeps the new car prices high and forces everybody else to buy from the reduced pool of used cars with credit which is too easy to get and itself increases the price by allowing too much money to chase too few goods.

tl;dr it's only going to get worse

>>28854588
>overpriced
The price is what the market will bear
You just can't afford what you want
Sad!

>>28855038
>The price is what the market will bear
And whatever they're paying, it's going to set them back for years.

>>28855874
who's 'they'? i've been buying lots of used cars and always pay cash, hasn't set me back at all.

>>28855876
Mostly normies who drive the price up with financing. The underwriting is a lot looser now that the average age of a car is over 12 years old. It used to be that cars over 10 years old would just not get financed, so anything older than that was the domain of cash only buyers.

Usually if they have to resort to financing a car that can be bought cash, they also have tons of other household debt that they can barely pay off.

This thread happens like 3 times amonth and it's always a fucking pepe shut the fuck up already

>>28854595
You are absolutely positively correct. Now find me a replacement touchscreen on my 87 Buick Rivera. Oh they don't make them anymore, wonder why.

>>28855038
>ignores the impact of credit markets >>28854901

>>28854619
what the fuck are you talking about? 3k less than sticker place? for example a 2020 m340i with zero options is like 65k dollars. today average price is like 35-40 which will also be near fully loaded. nice 3k retard.

>>28854630
That's because most people aren't aware that tax-siphoning "charity" groups take those cars, ship them off to Bumfuck Africa and charge those clowns a price they can pay all at our expense.

It's a practice that has been fucking the people over three ways.

Mazda 3 2020 manual or Golf VII dsg 2018. What would you guys pick?

>>28854589
They're designed to last up until the warranty is up.

>>28854588
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2BkrOeqJ6k

>>28854588
It's even worse in Europe. I'm looking at 10 year old cars with 200kkm and 2 owners for my budget of 15000eur. I make 2000 a month net lmao

>>28856217
So it's not just here?

They aren't though... the USD has just lost a shit ton of value because the fed did the same shit they do every time there is even a slightest hint of retraction, which is to fire the printers up and start giving gibs to freeloaders who then turn around and bitch that they still cant afford anything because they never contributed in the first place.

>>28854595
the screen in my shitbox is broken on all makes from 1998-2008
everybody just copes with it not working in warm weather

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>>28855885
Well they don't make replicas but you could probably force a more modern one to work although it'd probably require ripping out the whole dash and custom building so much crap that with all that hypothetical knowledge you could probably just repair the original unit anyways.

>>28856396
Money is thrown around super loosely, and there is a 2-3 year gap when cars just weren't being produced. It creates this nasty combination where car demand is inelastic and also in short supply. Prices go up to compensate, and easy debt raises the ceiling of what people are willing to stretch for.

This means that whoever participates stands to get very hurt long-term.

>>28855958
I'm talking about vehicles that responsible people buy. There's a reason why your oudmobile loses half it's value after 2 years.

>>28856742
thats a hilarious word to use instead of "poor". im not talking about a brand new bmw you fucking idiot. apparently 30k which will only slowly depreciate for a few years old bmw is still too much for you. just in case dont give me the "USED BMW GONNA BE BROKEN FOREVER" stfu its not a clapped 335i formerly owned by a zoomer. but hey, you mutts have much cheaper car prices. normal to be paranoid towards a used powerful bmw when fucking 18 years olds can easily buy it in muttland.

>>28856870
Uh bmw is a poor brand bro. It's browns trying to flex with their entry level salary.
People want shit that is reliable and and has cheap maintenance. m340i is not cheap maintenance. Most people don't want to do shit themselves and bmw dealers are expensive so they defer maintenance and it breaks down.

>>28854630
Yup. I did the fix and flip for a while and every auction you would see clapped out BMWs getting swooped up by Middle Eastern buyers because they truly could not give less of a fuck about a salvage title or rental use over there.

>>28855877
Banker anon here and this is the next big bubble. The big banks still won’t touch 10+ year old cars. Slimy financiers (you know which ones) will hop on with extortionate rates gladly. We saw what happened with Tricolor Holdings.

>>28856979
again, what are you talking about you fucking idiot. you said a 4 year old bmw, at +50k miles, is going to be 3k less than sticker price. when it literally is valued at 50% off from when it was new.
>m340i is not cheap maintenance
duh if you wanna compare it to some 150hp econobox. for an enthusiast favored daily it is not. m3 is not cheap maintenance.

i really don't get your point. in what world a person who is not poor and is an automotive enthusiast, instead decides to buy a reliable, boring a to b "responsible" shitbox like a toyota?

>>28857024
not sure what you're on about but toyotas go fast

>>28857030
the only fast toyota is a bmw

>>28854589
True.
Manual gearbox and stop with the entertainment crap.

>>28856989
>The big banks still won’t touch 10+ year old cars.
That much I'm aware of. The math doesn't math at that kind of risk profile, and they're doing the right thing. A decade old car should be unfinanceable.
>Slimy financiers (you know which ones) will hop on with extortionate rates gladly.
And normies eat that shit up. It makes a little bitter, because I'll do everything right, double my income, save diligently, have a nice pool of money to tide myself over for six months, and then the price of my dream shitbox skyrockets to over 3x what it's worth.

I can afford it in cash, but my pride won't let me. I'd regret the deal every time I turn the key. At 300 driving days per year, up to 20 years, twice a day, that's 12,000 times I kick myself if I bend over for a raw deal. I can't do it to myself, but they can.

And the thing is, doesn't auto debt also totally destroy purchasing power for a house? If they're tied up in a car, they can't even afford to live, and people will sooner give up their house or apartment than they would their car.

>>28854880
You will also be fuckng over the already heavily assfucked japanese. I am not japanese but. weeaboos driving up used car prices would kill their car culture that makes weebs want jap shit in the first place.

>>28854588
Value of the dollar fell off a cliff

>>28854880
>RHD parts are not compatible with LHD parts. While yes the drive train (aside from the transmission slightly) use the same internals and many gaskets, you will inevitably run into some bullshit
>Interior, Engine, Everything applicable is mirrored. 1 dash vent crack and goodluck
>most Japanese market cars utilize unique components or features otherwise not available in outside markets which means sourcing inevitable replacements will be nightmare difficultly
Just things to consider, food for thought.

>>28857870
Thanks to the shriveled orangutan

>>28854588
Obama

>>28857920
what's Clarkson got to do with it?

>>28857917
this is all easy as fuck now. go to yahoo auctions japan / rakuten / monotaro and use a forwarding service. I used to get stuff from japan delivered in 3-5 days (often faster than buying from a few states over) and shipping is like $20-30 on smaller stuff.

>>28854588
The fuck are you on about. 80k new cars from 2020 are 30k

>>28857920
>Be poor
>Make terrible life choices
>Blame others
I can buy shit just fine. Sucks for you though

>>28858224
how much do you make a year?

>>28858251
215k plus tip, you?

>>28858254
$332k. what other abuses in life do you like to justify?

>>28858266
lol what are you talking about
also if you actually made 332k you'd love inflation

>>28858269
>lol what are you talking about
you justified inflation (an abuse in life) by claiming you can still "buy shit just fine." >>28858224 why are you justifying inflation?
>>28858269
i'm not deeply in debt. i have no motivation to cheer on inflation. why do you like or want to see inflation?

>>28858271
if you don't have a mortgage, don't have investments, don't have debt, and your income doesn't increase proportionately with inflation, you don't make 332k a year lol. also you're not intelligent enough to make 332k a year if you don't see the need for inflation in an MMT debt based financial system.

>>28858277
i don't have a mortgage and my investments, when i choose to realize gains, are cashed out to USD. why would i want to see inflation and a devalued dollar? your argument is pure nonsense.

>>28858283
ok so you live with your parents and get paid hourly lol. why would you cash out of an investment into USD unless you were going to use it to buy something then and there, at least dump it into a money market account. you probably don't even understand what i'm talking about because you work at mcdonalds lol. honestly it doesn't even sound like english is your first language

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>>28858287
>ok so you live with your parents and get paid hourly lol.
my home is paid off.
>why would you cash out of an investment into USD unless you were going to use it to buy something then and there
to do exactly what you just suggested -- to buy things. i don't keep excess cash sitting in a savings account or a checking account.
>you probably don't even understand what i'm talking about because you work at mcdonalds lol. honestly it doesn't even sound like english is your first language
no, i regularly field retarded financial questions/suggestions from people like you. i'm a tax partner at an accounting firm that i co-founded. what do you do for a living?

>>28854895
Best car I ever owned. Had it for 10 years I miss it every day.

>>28858292
lol i write enterprise software developing embedded ai systems. if you're not lying then i'm literally building applications that will be replacing you in probably a year or two. not trying to be a dick there, i've got maybe 3 or 4 years until i'm replaced myself.

>>28858298
i've demoed AI tools for accounting research, bluej is the most recent example. they're all terrible.

the one coping should be you, as programming is largely a wrote exercise of applying framework boilerplate.

compare my situation, where my clients are primarily small business owners who will continue to pay me good money to provide professional judgement and incur professional liability. my clients do not have the means or the inclination to trust or verify the advice of an AI, and an AI cannot be held accountable for bad tax advice.

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>>28858251

>>28858303
dude i'm trying to help you, embrace ai. if your job is translating tax code and 'fielding retarded financial questions' then yes you're getting replaced. it's not going to be some customer talking to chatgpt, it's going to be some big player like turbotax embedding curated ai tooling into their existing software for a fraction of what you charge. also it's rote not wrote. i'm guessing you're south asian, maybe north african?

>>28858307
>1099 wages
show us the net amount, after employer/employee taxes as well as the expenses your incurred to perform whatever job this is.

>>28858292
These you?
>>28857073
>>28857087
>>28857097
>>28857119

>>28858309
you're a w2 employee, i don't expect you to understand any of this. just understand that you're wrong.
>>28858314
no. i have spoken to that guy before. he also posts on /biz/. there are several accounting anons on the 'chan.

>>28858317
hey man, i'm like you, i'm a luddite. i don't like ai, in fact i hate it at its core. but any company that shrugs it off is not going to be able to compete soon. nvidia has a market cap of 4.7 trillion for a reason. working with it directly has at least allowed me to realize what i'm up against and be able to prepare for the future, because it is the future. just trying to warn you. tell me i'm wrong, that's fine. i hope i am. but i'm not.

>>28854594
>nobody buys new cars
>everyone sticks to used market
>car companies still building cars that don't sell
>...
>HAH, checkmate used market
Somebody want to explain this to me.

>>28858310
Kek I'm in medicine. I paid 40k fed taxes last year on 500k income. State taxes 16k.

>>28858292
CPA make so much money. I pay mine 800 for personal and 800 for my s corp. Never even met her only zoom meetings.
Other people I know pay 2-3k plus services like monthly bookkeeping.

>>28858224
Cope.

How's that dollar value.
How's that precious metal value.
How's that national debt.

Stupid bitch, you didn't earn your money and it shows. More dollars than braincells if you can't see what shitty position we're in. Even at 6 digit tax brackets, you are still getting dicked down compared to literally any other presidency. You have dogshit buying power, your money is weak compared to what it was.
You are effectively cutting your nose to spite your face.
>You don't gotta be making bad choices or be broke to know how fucked things are
>My money is tall, doesn't mean I cant hurt for my fellow Americans.
>>28858254
Your buying power is 30% less than before

>>28858500
The cope is your poor ass. Gold is up, stocks have been +20% last 3 years. I made more money in stocks last couple years than working my 400k job. My accountant jews the system and I pay under 10% effective tax rate.
But orange man bad kek take some accountability

>>28854588
because they know what they got.
unironicly.
and you wouldnt be looking for it unless you wanted what they got.

>>28858500
>Your buying power is 30% less than before
hm, haven't noticed. maybe because my salary has increased along with inflation. what i have noticed though is that our mortgage and auto loan are way more affordable now than when we took them out.

>>28854589
This.
Used car market is blowing up, the demand is up, and so are the prices.
We're leaving the environment of affordable, reliable cars.
my 2010 shitbox from 8 years ago I paid $11.5 its now worth $12-13k on fb and if i fix everything i can probably get above $15k on BaT

>>28858519
how do I get a 400k job?
>t. fell for the STEM meme

>>28858547
its easy, suck 100 cocks a day

>>28858519
the cope is on you. 400k jobs are rare, so rare i have doubts you have one. the statistics show the real world and its in the 50 to 60k range. good luck trying to invest in gold or stocks at that salary in usa, you will be more worried about debt and buying food, maybe some fuel for the work truck.

>>28858519
400k in pennies?

>>28858519
>Accountabililty
Omegakek, oh the irony is too funny.
Listen up larper

Explain why gold is up
Explain why the dollar is down
Explain why the national debt is higher than ever.

Oh wait, you won't because it pops that silly little bubble you're living in.

>>28858530
Life must be bliss being blind, deaf, and retarded. Oh well I'll cry when my chaffer picks me up. None of this shut affects me but you best believe I aint gonna be a delulu-loser like you apes.

The dollar is weaker than ever, salary be damned kek

>>28858608
are you even american lol

>>28858630
>comatose response
Nah bro I'm totally a Hindu in bali uh huh, that's why I care about the American economy.

You still aren't answering the questions? Typical Bitchmade behavior.

^ dude is unhinged lol

Appeal to scrutiny

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>>28858560
lol

In case you haven’t noticed yet: everything is fucking expensive now

>>28854588
If the entire market is "overpriced," you might just be poor

American economy is busted because chinks and ivans

>>28858224
>Sucks for you though
It does.
>be poor
>don't want to be poor anymore
>save, scrimp, invest, increase income and revenues
>no reward at the end of the tunnel
Now I don't want anything on offer. What did I do all of this for?

>>28858857
>everything is fucking expensive now
The relationship of money has perverse incentives. When debt is so easy why be responsible?

The people that spent irresponsibly with someone else's money made it expensive. It's artificial inflation of demand. They got to drive shiny new metal, take big, fancy vacations, buy everything on layaway, and elevate their status just temporarily.

That makes everything *permanently* expensive. Now, people are being forced into the real consumer segment they belong to and they really, really hate that. It turns out their millionaire lifestyle wouldn't last forever and the only thing they truly deserve is destitution. No one wants to admit this. Car buyers are about to see the largest drop in insurance ACV in a single year and no one is talking about it. It is the system working as intended. The risk-adjusted middle fingers are free of charge, the truth of consequences is priceless.

I've noticed an of uptick and trending towards people who wax poetic about the virtues of old cars, but I notice a very distinct pattern. They rotated through many cars before settling on the old car. They caused this problem. They rolled over negative equity and stretched terms. They had fun in the cars you dreamed about while you saved for the chance to own one. The music is over, this is what they (and you) get.

I guarantee you if the money weren't so hard to borrow cheaply again, this sentiment would evaporate overnight. They're just mad that they're getting what they deserve.

My concern is that people forced to move downmarket from debt-driven highs leave total destruction on the way down. When faced with eating or paying for car maintenance, the oil change will lose every time. The same people who villify Cash 4 Clunkers look at 700k cars crushed and call it the Hol/o/caust. They totally ignore the millions of cars that get mechanically totalled during economic downturns, because a coupon for a $19.99 oil change is $19.99 too far for them.

>>28858559
you joke, but I was reading old posts on rx7club and a young guy was asking about buying an FD vs a Ferrari or Aston or whatever back in the day. People asked what he did for work to afford those cars at such a young age and he literally replied with: "I'm an escort for wealthy men in San Francisco" :x

>>28858901
I may be poor, but I'm not stupid enough to sign.

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>>28854588
>atrociously overpriced ?
just math nigga. Cool and desirable older cars are more expensive. Just because its old, doesn't mean it should also be cheap. You're just broke.

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>>28860374

Another reason why motorcycles are better