sure, it an advanced concept
there are plenty of concepts we haven't figured out yet that ayys may have known for a long time

>>16937914
No, i dont think it is possible. It is just too obvious. They may come up with alternative interpretations which work just as well, but we also have those.

>>16937914
We survived and thrived for thousands of years without knowing how diseases are transmitted, so I guess anything's possible.

It looks like one of those planter peanuts creations from The Electric State

File: 1775017100473514.webm (1.5 MB)

>>16937914
MUUUURPH

>>16937914
im guessing that's the premise of picrel?

i don't think so. I'm guessing them seeing with sound is supposed to negate them discovering the speed of light? but like, so many other things are affected by the speed of light, if they were advanced enough to travel interstellar distances idk how they would miss that. Like GPS for example relies on relativistic timing differences.

sci fi movies are rarely 100% scientifically accurate though, idk why you would expect them to be. you have to just suspend disbelief if you're gonna enjoy it, but from the poster it looks kinda lame. was it good?

>>16944956
>was it good?
It was wholesome.

>>16945045
Great book

>>16937914
I haven't seen the movie, but the book (shit book btw) leaves it unclear how the Eridians even figured out the astrophage problem in the first place.
>no space program until they built an elevator to construct their Tau Ceti ship (and presumably the probe that collected the first astrophage samples from Threeworld)
Did they have some kind of thermal observatory watching/feeling the sun? I think the bigger question is how they got started without knowing about radiation.

File: psn.gif (26.3 KB)

>>16937914
>>16946389
>>16946410
Trash book, trash movie.
I am not surprised the average tard believes is good.

>>16946590
>hating solaris
dogshit taste even for /sci/

>>16937914
I'm more confused how they know about stars and planets if they can't detect light. Even in the novel Grace mentions Eridians can't "see" shit if they go on a spacewalk because there's nothing for them to hear.

>>16944956
I haven't seen the movie, but the book was fun. Naturally, 4chan is 4chan and since Project Hail Mary is popular everyone here has to act above it all.

>>16937914
Even more impressive that they where able to produce a film about it.

Amirite

>>16946590
>I think I'm the smartest being in the universe because, uh, popular thing bad

>>16951680
worse, is because it's a story about positivity, which for the average Anon is considered cringe and not based

>>16937914
there will be no advanced civilization on a planet without visible light

>>16952410
[citation needed]

>>16952411
>no visible light
>no photosynthesis
>no oxygen
>no complex life

>>16937914
Yes. We have multiple models of universe.

Newtonian
General Relativity
Standard Model
Quantum Field Theory
String Theory
Geometric Unity
Emergent Gravity
Etc etc

You are confused because you think general relativity is fundamental "truth", when its just A model, not a "THE model."

>>16952443
>the theory that things are relative
I have a theory that things exist as well, but I can't quite prove it.

File: magnets_c.jpg (24.4 KB)

>>16952448
Yeah, I've got a theory...

>>16952414
Chemosynthesis is a possibility, or maybe photosynthesis with different non-visible wavelengths. We can go with that.

What's retarded is they have no sense of visible light yet manage to make it into space. How do they even know what might be there?

Let's say they develop instruments to see for them and get into space with that. Navigation in space is impossible without understanding general relativity. It would be like navigating on land with no understanding of elevation and topography.

t. Actual rocket scientist

>>16937914
>the concept of general relativity
It's probably the type of simplification that has to be found once large enough scales become normal parts of scientific consideration.
It's not that the math itself is so obvious, but that the abstract concepts of mass, energy, force, acceleration, space, time, light, etc are all going to be part of the overall physical understanding that advanced species possess.
If there is a realization that both space and time need to be relative in order to preserve causality at scale then general relativity is the inevitable conclusion that resolves the problem.

File: 1487152317852.jpg (124.4 KB)

>>16937914
>author needs to explain why Rocky the Rock Lobster was alone on his giant ship
>could just say, "There was an accident that killed my fellow crewmembers." like an astrophage containment breach
>says instead that this species made a superior spaceship without knowing wtf radiation is
>also needs to explain why they have too much fuel instead of just enough like the human one
>could just say, "Our species is very cautious and committed to redundancy."
>says instead they made an interstellar ship without knowing wtf General Relativity is
Jesus Christ man...in Hard SF, it's better to say too little than way too fucking much.

>>16952443
>Geometric Unity
lol

>>16952592
>Chemosynthesis is a possibility
not enough energy to produce complex intelligent life

>photosynthesis with different non-visible wavelengths
not possible

>>16946470
Can't remember exactly how many of his kind were on his ship, but if radiation affects them, why did he survive?

>>16951674
We can hear our Sun. Google it, the sound is awesome

>>16952592
We can't see infrared or UV light, how the fuck do we know it exists? Is there some kind of doodad that can replace our retarded eyes?

>>16937914
No, not really.

The first proof for general relativity was the precession of Mercury's orbit. It was the most obvious, as it was the most extreme of all the planets in our solar system. Without it, you cannot accurately plan trips even in a star system. Also, you will get drift in extremely precise clocks on satellites, so no GPS. And no way to explain gravitational lensing, black holes, distorted red/blue shift of stars orbiting black holes, etc.

>>16938636
how do you build an interstellar spaceship that travels (almost) at speed of light without relativity?

>>16953106
his room was surrounded by the black goo deposits

>>16952996
>Chemosynthesis
I was just admitting it as a possibility, however remote, for the sake of argument.

>photosynthesis with different non-visible wavelengths
There are bacteria that can use gamma radiation. Other wavelengths may be possible.

>>16953115
We can see part of the EM spectrum, so once we discovered that the spectrum exists, it was simple to start investigating the rest.

Imagine not having any way to see any part of the spectrum, so they can't even see the sky, stars or planets. How would they even know to look for it if they "see" with sound?

File: space-lines-tunnel-seamless-loop-royalty-free-image-1754921813.pjpeg.jpg (113.9 KB)

>>16937914
https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a69663990/scientists-say-physical-warp-drive-now-possible/

A research paper proposes a fully physically realized model for warp drive.

This builds on an existing model that requires negative energy—an impossibility.

The new model is exciting, but warp speed is still probably decades or centuries away.

>>16937914
it was said they missed special relativity and radiation.
now i think they meant that they only missed how light works and thus cant really get all aspects of relativity since they dont know that there is a speed of light. but they probably still know the math behind it. kind of like how whe understood gravity during newtons time. we didnt understand it but we could account for it in math.

>>16937914
>those triangles
Probably a ton of esoteric symbolism cramed in to that movie

Having no sense of sight or light is literally the dumbest plotpoint ever when light-sensitivity and sight are literally one of the most prominent example of convergent evolution and appear in 96% all living species. Vertebrates, insects, molluscs, anthropods, jellyfish, crustaceans...there are fucking sea worms, WORMS, that have advanced optical eyes with lenses and shit.

>>16952740
Don't worry man I can explain it since you're autistic.
The whole point is to demonstrate how a species with entirely different senses, pressures, and cultures would advance through science and technology very differently from our own. eg: they don't see light, thus they were far less inclined to study it than us.
The author does this elegantly by presenting the alien's material science as practically magic, but having them fail to grasp something we see as obvious.

>in Hard SF, it's better to say too little than way too fucking much.
This isn't the author's best attempt to predict what will literally most likely happen in the near future, it's just a story about a man and his goofy rock friend. "Hard" Science Fiction is simply a genre of Fiction. Fiction means the book isn't real.
He's not "saying too much", he's killing two birds with one stone to keep the book moving.

>>16944956
Its very reddit core science ftw shit. Kinds fun

>>16937914
they had no jews on their planet, why do you think they were so much more advanced than humanity?

>>16951674
If I remember correctly in the book the alien mentions that they know what light is and can detect it. They also know about radiation, just not about the health effects, because they are relatively resistant to it.

>>16956175
they have no resistance to it, what protects them is that their planet has a thick atmosphere and an insanely strong magnetic field that filters out cosmic radiation to the point nothing makes it to the surface and thus they don't have any experience or exposure to it, what they know of radiation comes from what they've mined from their planet. Keep in mind we've only known about Radiation since 1896 so it's still a relatively new discovery for us and the Eridians are around the same general tech level as humanity, just further ahead in some areas while much further behind in others

>>16952740
>this species made a superior spaceship
explain how the superiority of the ship was demonstrated

>>16957006
it was made of superior metals cause that's what Eridians were really good at, and it was substantially larger because they had a full fledged space elevator(due again to their superior material science) but people saying it was superior are missing the point of the movie, it was inferior as far as a science vessel for example as they didn't think to include a way for it to generate centrifugal gravity like the Mary could, and it was much less redundant and modular as shown by how it was completely crippled by the Taumoeba escaping whereas Grace had time to save the Mary

>>16937914
why did they make the alien guy act like an autistic dog? made me cringe and he entire movie

>>16957244
to match the human puppy
and contrary to other things it's not unbelievable, no way to make any assumption about the personality of an alien species

>>16939117
wtf, i never realised how cute she was

>>16957244
>why did the alien act unlike a human?

File: rock.jpg (39.4 KB)

>>16957222
>mfw humans figure out relativity and computers and shit but don't even know about xenonite
>mfw they build their interstellar spaceships out of fucking aluminium.

>>16937914
It really, really bothers me that the flag on his shoulder is backwards.

>>16953448
Lots of astrophage

>>16946590
When it comes to "alien mind that resists comprehension" I kinda like Blindsight. The idea that a hyper-savant race of superbeings which can read your neurons firing and rewrite your mind with induced magnetic fields are affronted by the human consciousness is hilarious. "Would you love me if I was a worm?" is an attack.

>>16957244
>why did they make the alien guy act like an autistic dog?
Have you met many engineers?

>>16953448
how do you build a cathedral without understanding structural loads or a unified system of measurements? without math?
how do you do it with a pre-literate work force?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ivqWN4L3zU

>>16937914
Doesn't make sense, being blind is no excuse really because humans are effectively blind to many of the forces we still understand and would have to understand to travel to different stars.

>>16945044
brilliant novel

>>16937914
Cute movie

>>16937914
I should buy the book

>>16962399
The boss bitch had him drugged up and sent into space against his will and by the time the probes reach earff it's implied billions of people have already starved to death lmao

Basically reddit the flick. Very sad, very dishonest

>>16937914
> Would it really be possible for an advanced alien species (granted, they see using sound) to somehow miss the concept of general relativity? Would it really be possible for an advanced alien species (granted, they see using sound) to somehow miss the concept of general relativity? >


Try having the idea about that idea this way though: All classical metaphysics that we or you or I have lacks the idea of general relativity

>>16937914
I feel like nk it was always something that bothered me even if they didn't understand the reasoning for it they would absolutely be able to measure its effects even GPS satellites need to have relativistic compensation by about 48 microseconds a day or something if I recall if they were already building spaceships or experimenting with astrophage drives like we were they would have noticed the time dilation even if they didn't necessarily understand why it was happening it wouldn't be hard for them to notice thing go fast time slow down thing far away time speed up even if they didn't know why they could just test at a few different speeds and use that to calculate how time dilation would look at the reltivistic speeds of their ship

>>16937914
This movie fucking sucked. Literally the worst movie I have ever watched in my entire life. I was physically angry watching it.

>>16937914
It would make for a less interesting story.

General relativity is not required for GPS as pop science claims. Ancient civilisations created accurate astronomical predictions without the use of computers and without even knowing the Earth orbits the sun. The timing corrections for GPS can be determined empirically without knowing why they happen.

>>16952592
They used a space elevator. Their Xenonite material is strong enough to construct one.

>t. Isn't a retard.
What makes you think they don't have the ability to detect thermodynamic adjacent radiation? Sound waves would travel slower or faster through their ship based on heat sources contacting the exterior. Their entire ship is basically a gigantic tuning fork.

>>16937914
You would think they would have wondered why clocks in orbit drift but it is possible they didn't have much to do with space before their star started dying.

>>16953448
Why do you need relativity? It's established they live for hundreds of years so likely just loaded it with enough supplies for the much longer duration they expected.

>>16953951
IIRC their homeworld has zero light whatsoever on the surface. No selective pressure.

>>16937914
Idk.

>>16937914
It’s a good question.

>>16937914
Those fucking rocks live for like eight hundred years what the fuck

>>16937914
Eh

>>16953122
IIRC they had a space elevator
So they could have just had double the delta V necessary for every rocket trip, and just winged the orbital mechanics

>>16937914
Reddit aliens will Reddit their way to the stars.

>>16972855
The fuck does that mean?

>>16974563
it means he can't enjoy anything that has gained widespread critical exclaim because it would destroy his perception of himself as "different".
he's a contrarian. incapable of creating his own modus operandi, scared of being a puppet but not smart enough to not actually be one, all paranoid yet low-IQ people tend towards contrarianism, it is the only mechanism that helps them cope.

>>16958514
kek

>>16944956
It's not the premise, it's not even relevant to the films plot. But it is important to the books plot. The film doesn't do anything with this point.

>>16953951
Light doesn't reach the ground on their planet

>>16952740
Except in the book the bits where they're talking about their different planets, their societies, their biology etc are the best parts. Boring answers are not good reading

>>16953448
Maybe they just call the discrepancy in speed "dark velocity"

>>16953718
They noticed there was a big ball of heat in space

>>16945044
Can't say that I "got it", but I definitely enjoyed it and it's sequel/side story.

File: file.png (165.5 KB)

>>16970653
actually, since rockys world is apparently 440 PSI instead of 14.7 PSI, a zeppelin like the hindenberg could get to 100 miles above ground level!
so now you get to start from the karman line instead of from a launchpad

>>16937914
I don’t fucking know lol

>>16937914
Hard to believe, even harder to believe is the "astrophage" and it's 100% blocking of all the EM spectrum, not even any tunnelling. How? It's microscopic, it's not like thick lead. Or how 'bout being able to sustain yourself for years just eating an alien microbe (taumoeba). I could go on.

>>16958788
I've had it with these motherfucking astrofags on this motherfucking spaceship

We are still quite early in our physics theories. And aliens could be using far superior maths or physics or operating at different frequencies or dimensions or whatever. Anything is technically possible given enough time. We have limitations because a lot of our advanced stuff is still theoretical. Yeah our counting systems, ability to study space and brainpower is kinda getting better but for how advanced we are. If there were advanced alien speices then they would be able to do things we cannot.

Dunno

>>16937914
>general relativity
>Relation between acceleration and gravitation
Even before Einstein, Mitchell and Laplace discovered the critical length 2GM/c^2 (like in Schwarzschild radius for black hole before even a real "black hole" was discovered) with Newton's equations.
The proof that acceleration = gravitation came with Einstein.

Other way to discover the equivalence acceleration and gravitation is with the study of the rotation of a planet far enough of the planet's observer :
Check "8min discrepancy in jupiter's rotation" discovered way before Einstein when clocks were precise enough.

For Op's question, no, it would be very unlikely.

>>16937914
no. most of them would roughly follow the same steps as us. order my differ a bit but eventually.
my theory is that any technologically advanced cibilisation develops screws and nuts and bolts at some point, which would look similar to ours.
form follows function

>>16953106
he was the ship's engineer, his room was near the engine, astrophage fuel was also near the engine, astrophage absorbed radiation and shielded him

>>16953951
the atmosphere of the alien planet was so thick that light didn't reach the ground

>>16957222
and it was much less redundant and modular as shown by how it was completely crippled by the Taumoeba escaping whereas Grace had time to save the Mary
the alien got fucked because his whole ship was xenonite and the taumoba had evolved to go through xenonite. wouldn't have been the case if the evolution experiments were conducted in aluminium boxes

>>16985944
>and it was much less redundant and modular as shown by how it was completely crippled by the Taumoeba escaping whereas Grace had time to save the Mary
this was supposed to have a meme arrow in front of it

>>16937914
the whole point of the stone faggot is to be a happy reddit chungus. there is no thought behind it

>>16937914
One of the worst movies I've ever seen. Genuinely cannot believe how popular it is.

>>16937914
And on a similar note, can bugs really eat the sun?

>>16952592
You are taking nonsense on visible light

The reason we see it is because it’s on earth. If something else was on earth, that’s what we’d see instead.
The visible spectrum is not special from a physics standpoint

>>16937914
I only watched the movie so is it explained more how he learned the language of the rock creature in depth? That was the main thing I couldn't get over. Why do they even have that tech on the ship to begin with?

>>16953761
First step is defining what you want. It’s an important step, but it doesn’t mean you’re anywhere close to getting it

>>16986087
they don't eat the sun, they consume the emitted radiation

People saying this movie is reddit are simply newfags who want to fit in.
Any true /sci/ anon would appreciate a movie that attempts to depict an alien form that isn't lazy "humanoids but kinda different"

>accidentally figure out how to breed astrophage in a plywood box held together with duct tape
>somehow can't figure out how to breed enough astrophage on board the ship during the outbound flight for a return journey
amaze amaze amaze

>>16986279
>attempts to depict an alien form that isn't lazy "humanoids but kinda different"
but that's exactly how it's depicted

>>16985528
We wouldn't have developed screws if not for the penises of ducks.
What if these alien planets don't have ducks?

>>16986286
Meds, now.

>>16986283
so not only you're a newfag, you're also a contrarian teenager

>>16986292
Your last right is to call another a 'newfag', you are a newfag yourself.

>>16986293
sorry didn't notice you're a tripfag as well. What a massive faggot.

>>16986292
I bet you loved mission to mars, especially its ending scene, too

>>16986279
I preferred rocky when he played the part of the sample returned to earth in the andromeda strain (1971), at least he had the decency to exhibit actually alien behavior back then

>>16986310
never heard of it, looks like slop.

>>16986361
Derp

(You're retarded- and an abomination)

>>16986362
Burr burr burr slop, garbage, vomit, schizo

Abominations are this sort of retarded.

redditors (the target audience) are extremely retarded so the "science" needs to be on the level of factoids and first grade science experiments.

>>16986282
the ship consumes 5 grams of astrophage per second to maintain 1.5 g acceleration for 4 years

>>16986428
nothing wrong with that

>reddit

Reddit

4chan

>>16937914
Possible?
Yes
Absolutely, tremendously and irrevocably contrived?
Also yes.

>handling astrophage in containers where you can easily mix up by orders of fucking magnitude.

I can buy everything else but this. That shit has happened so many times in the past that any competent institution set in analogous modern day should never even have the possibility of that shit happening

Sabotage, or even a manufacturing mistake, but not "the two containers look basically the same, one is a nuke and the other is a firecracker"

>>16937914

Given we were also ignorant of this for the vast majority of our existence, yes it's almost guaranteed that some species and cultures will never realize this underlying mechanism. It's not exactly intuitive.

>>16953448
Fucking nigger retard we weren't sending rockets in 500 ac, how are you this fucking stupid, kill yourself

>>16953448
Did I misunderstand something in the movie or did the human ship somehow go faster than light and they just glossed over it? They were about 12 light years from Earth but at one point I think Grace said it would take 4 years to get back. I'm guessing either I heard/remembered it wrong or the movie script fucked up a line from the book and it was 4 years of fuel (2 years accelerating, >8 years coasting at somewhere near the speed of light, 2 years decelerating).

I also remember something about the acceleration being 1.5G and if I'm doing the math right I don't think it's possible for the trip to take 4 years if the acceleration is 1.5G no matter how fast the top speed is.

>>16991774
It'd be 12 years real time but 4 years from his PoV due to time dilation

>>16937914
I don't think so. How would that species account for the observable phenomenon of clocks closer to a body of mass ticking slower than those further away? These aliens have satellites, right? Or, if they are travelling at relativistic speeds, how would they explain the discrepancy of time passing on their ship compared to those at sub relativistic velocities? Plus, Newtonian style physics just doesn't work as a predictor for planetary motion, eventually you realise that there is something else going on.

>>16991673
For the vast majority of our existence we chucked spears at mammoths, and for thousands of years we lived in a pre-industrial age. It makes much less sense for a spacefaring species to not have realised it yet.

It's soft sci-fi pretending it's hard sci-fi because it uses the correct physics terms for the things it's talking about, AKA midwit aggrandizing. It uses the big words, but you still understand the pop-sci level of discourse, so you feel smarter than what you really are.

>>16992088
>I will use my trusty calculator to do some high-school level napkin math and save the world with it!
It really is.

Depends what system they use to measure and quantify things. They could understand it but be using some different system of calculation that is more efficient. Sound is waveforms so if they see in waveforms who the fuck knows. Vibrations and waves. There is a rumour that's how the pyramids where built so if they can move massive stones like that then they are probably capable of stuff we could not conceptualise.

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>>16992079
I think in the movie the alien spaceship is the first one they've built, only 1 alien survives the journey the rest die from radiation which they did not know about either.

the alien became more and more like a rock dog as the movie progressed
i like the rock dog and look forward to a long fruitful relationship between the humans and the retarded rock dogs

>>16953448
>how could you make fire without knowing about oxidation?

>>16993079
They completely changed the aliens personality in the movie. They gave him ADHD for comical relief.

>>16937914
Yes, because Ampere-Weber EM when applied to gravity yields the same results as GR without all the black magic.

>>16944956
in the book they missed the concept of special relativity which is a lot worse.

>>16952414
There is only no life at the surface, there are floating microorganisms performing photosynthesis in the upper atmosphere, which is where most of the ecosystem is. The rocky dudes feast on the stuff that makes it's way down to them, just like creatures on the sea floor.

>>16994992
>only no life at the surface
*no light at the surface