>>97636452
should be the same with Imperium citizens in 40k

>>97636457
>Do you remember which piece of Warhammer fantasy artwork first captured your imagination? Post it if so!
Theres this one blender picture of Morathi sodomizing karl franz and I found that very evocative.

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>>97636457
>>Thread Question
>Do you remember which piece of Warhammer fantasy artwork first captured your imagination? Post it if so!

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>>97636457
>tq
Picrel and the middemheim (?) automorial one

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>>97636457

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For Bretonnia!

>>97636525
go back to fucking your horse and crying about how you'll never be an elf

>>97636525
How did they fuck up such a simple concept man

>>97636534

Could be worse, could be one of the stupid new female knights they're pushing.

>>97636505
All the illustrations in that book were pure kino.

Post Models

>>97636538
>could be
>could
Anon...

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>>97636559
pic

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>>97636525
Yeah just use Victrix footknights for these with the fantasy heads.
I hate modern GW puzzle kits.

>>97636568
Kino. Just saw someone in /aosg/ asking where all the dark elf players were in TOW yesterday.

>>97636568
These whips must be a bitch to transport

>>97636568
>>97636582
Lel that was me actually. Pleasant surprise

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>>97636559
>accidentally prime some figures with silver instead of white
I'm pleasantly surprised how it's turning out, might have to do all my heavy Cathay units like that.

>>97636598
Looks good, what color did you use for the pauldrons?

>>97636598
>my CoS are from chamon

>>97636572
It's like they actively dislike the concept of kitbaching.

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>>97636457
>TQ

>>97636666
Based
Fuck low fantasy sissies

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On Friday I played four Battle March games and as mentioned, I will do some write ups. My first game was against Bretonnians

After pillaging and razing small villages and settlements on the outskirts of Bretonnia, Big Boss Snagrog was quickly becoming used to the Orc life again after his stint as a Mercenary. However, his ladz had started getting hungry and to no avail there were no nearby villages!

The Orcs found themselves scrounging a graveyard, not only to make camp but also to dig up and feast on what few meat there was.

But then, over the horizon, a host of humies appeared. A big shiny tin canned humie on a horse, with five others, an old magic looking humie and a bunch of spear weilding humies.

An ambush! Snagrog was pleased, it meant the fight had come to them and potentially something to fill their stomachs! The Battle of Grim Vale had begun!

>>97636620
The AK quickgen turquoise green paint.

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>>97636676

I'd love for chaos to have some weird schizo-tech units. Thought of using a war wolf for a greater chaos spawn. The chainsaw head fits well for Warhammer I think.

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Make some terrain lads

how essential are marauders this edition? Could hounds work as screens?

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>>97636680
With a bellow, Snagrog ordered the army to advance. The Bretonnian humies were still forming up, so the Orcs had the initiative!

Gorfang, the lunatic boar boy and his savage bunch, careened straight towards the Knights, their boars screeching as they thundered. But the Paladin and Knights noted the loud greenskins and counter charged. It was over in but a moment.

Screams of men, orc and beast pierced the air as both cavalry struck, gore and broken spears scattering all over. In a bried moment, only the Paladin and one Orc remained.

Snagrog and his big uns advanced behind, whooping at the carnage.

Grimtoof, a dizgruntled Black Orc, lead a boyz mob around the flanks. The aging wizard blasted his boyz with bolts of doom and fireballs, only one or two boyz succuming. The men at arms deployed to face the oncoming horde.

Soon the Paladin ran down the remaining Boar....leaving him terribly exposed. Snagrog bellowed and with his frenzied big uns, careened into the Paladin! Both faced the other in a terrible challenge, as the Paladin's weapon tore through Snagrog's Meteoric Iron, felling the Greenskin but not before the terrifying axe split the Paladin in two along with his steed.

>>97636735
>how essential are marauders this edition?
Literally better than chaos warriors.
>Could hounds work as screens?
That is their only purpose in life.

>>97636747
>Literally better than chaos warriors.
not saying much there though. Personally I'd still just run knights or forsaken.

>>97636753

Is 15 forsaken per unit enough, or should they be in blocks of 20? More importantly, what models to use for them?

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>>97636680
Despite this, the Big Uns were thrown into a greater frenzy, and overran into the men at arms. The Big uns tore a huge chunk out if the humies and grinded them down. They fell back, causing only two Orcs to nearly 6 of their own.

The wizard, having desperately bombarded the Orcs since the start.m, his ruby ring either failing or hardly scratching the Orcs as with his doom bolt, began to panic. Grimtoof, the beleagered Black Orc, urged the boyz on, promising he'd leave a good bit of the humie to much on to whoever killed the magic humie.

The Big uns finally broke the men at arms, their frenzied choppas simply too much and the humies were cut down to a man.

Despite the wizards best attempts to evade and another pair of spells hardky scratching the Orcs, Grimtoof and his boyz charged and gutted the old wizard, who died screaming.

The Orcs had won. Snagrog was recovered, bloodied and battered but still alive. With the Bretonnians gone, a camp could be set up and fresh meat to feed the Waaagh!

Unknown to them however, reports of an Orc incursion had reached many ears...as they were soon to find out

>>97636747
>better than warriors
can they hold the line as well as sword and board warriors? I plan on them being the anvil for my knights, monsters, and the like to hammer.

>>97636753
>rather run forsaken
do they do a good job of keeping enemies tied down? and how do you usually make them? I thought about maybe getting a box of warriors and giving them some daemon or beast bits and some greenstuff gibblies for good measure

>>97636768
>what models to use for them?
leftover bits and stick them on bodies. Back when I still owned my warriors I used a mish mash of tzaangors and some third party stuff.
>>97636768
>Is 15 forsaken per unit enough
I had success with like 3 squads of 8-9 but my games were always weird.

>>97636735
Marauders are better than WoC as the other guy said. Marauder horsemen work better as screens than dogs but dogs also fulfill the function. Dogs are much cheaper but the output on the marauders makes them a better deal overall if you want them to potentially do anything other than die.

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>>97636781
Nta but the problem with warriors is two fold: Damage output and points. They are expensive, so even a unit of 10 with shields is 140. With 1 attack and likely only one extra rank, it only takes two losses to nullify any combat bonuses. further more, while individually powerful, their low attacks means you can't even compensate their low numbers with obscene damage so you likely lose combat anyway.

essentially: Too weak to be a hammer unit, too low in numbers to be an anvil.

For 4 less points (136), you can get 17 sword and board Marauders with full command. Far better basic attrition, bolstered ranks and with shield wall, a decent anvil.

>>97636733
Terrain is optional in TOW.

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>>97636457
>Do you remember which piece of Warhammer fantasy artwork first captured your imagination? Post it if so!

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>>97636694
>I'd love for chaos to have some weird schizo-tech units.
There's room for a chaos subfaction that explores that, in my opinion

Sorcerers in dark towers conducting forbidden alchemical experiments to create tools of war and tainted servants
Regiments of turncoat cultists instead of hordes of barbarians from the north
Not as industrialised and refined as the dawi zharr nor as haphazard and erratic as the skaven

In the mountains of the badlands near the sour sea perhaps?

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Picked up a little something something.

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>>97636457
This one

>>97636733
Anon, I've been making terrain instead of painting models for some time. And now when I'm finally finishing my 2k empire (and started chaos in the background), I'm already slipping into planning a winter set for my table... I can't live like this.

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>>97636457
>TQ

This. Now that I am older, I know the Warboss is in the foreground but I used to think he was on the same level as the other Orcs on the lower right and he was just that big.

I still like to imagine that.

>>97636877
Pics

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>>97636905
For example

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The second Battle March match consisted of another fight against Bretonnia. This time with archerszm, peasant militia and another paladin and his knights.

Just as Snagrog and his warband had made camp after a host of squabbling, scuffling and eating, a familiar sound was heard. A second Bretonnian army emerged over the horizon. Having heard word of a horde of Greenskins, another Paladin had answered the call.

Saying a prayer to the lady, the paladin had just finished when his knights were assailed by the pig mounted orcs. Gorfang bellowed as the two units collided into each other with a sickening crunch.

Meanwhile the orc archers let loose a volley, catching a peasant in the throat as he fell choking on his blood.

Grimtoof, the beligered Black Orc, lead his boyz mob up mid field, the orc arrers following close by.

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>>97636936
After the dust had settled, only Gorfang was left of his lunatic boar boyz and fell back with the Paladin in hot oursuit with one other knight.

Grimtoof and the arrer boyz charged the men at arms, bellowing their war cries. By the Lady, they held. In desperation, the peasant archers charged in.

The paladin cut down the boar boss, only to see his peasants under heavy pressure. He looked to see the big boss who was still gaining ground. Realising this was the key moment, the Paladin and his last knight charged into the flank of the orc boyz.

It was a slaughter, humans and orcs dying horribly, the last knight and peasants falling. However, this was enough. Grimtoof wailed to flee, the boyz breaking with the arrer boyz falling back.

They were cut down by the paladin with the militia reforming.

Snagrog roared in frustration and while out of charge range, formed his big uns up to face the charge. The Militia formed up into a shield wall, to lure the orcs into a charge. Snagrog bellowed and his big ujs charged. Once more the peasants held but this time, suffered horrific losses, the orcs shredding them limb from limb and Snagrog eviscerating the unit champion. But their priest called for them to have faith and stubbornly gave ground with a shield wall.

The Paladin, hoping to recreate the same success as before, spurred his steed, lance lowered, and charged into the flank of Snagrog's big uns.

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>>97637037
This time however, the Paladin's charge was not enough, for these orcs were the strongest of their kind. Two fell, but the sheer chaos Snagrog caused to the priest and the remaining peasants forced the Paladin to fall back and the militia to break. They were cut down to the last.

Now, only Snagrog and his big uns remained to face the Paladin and peasant archers. Snagrog and his frenzied big uns marched forward. He was going to get his grub if its the last thing he did.

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>>97637066
It was now or never. Among the corpse strewn battlefield, only the Orc Big Boss and his retinue remained. The Paladin wanted to run, but his valour and courage prevailed. If he could cut down the Orc leader, there was a chance!

Shouting a warcry to the lady, the Paladin once more lowered his lance. Snagrog bellowed, emerging from his boyz to meet the challenge.

With a deafening screech of metal, the lance tore through the Meteoric Iron. The Paladin pushed with all his might as did his steed and for a moment, victory seemed to have been gained.

But no, Snagrog glared back up with a toothy grin. Wounded but not slain, he struck out with his great axe in a wide arch, slamming straight into the Paladin's plate, dealing a near fatal wound.

Outnumbered, wounded and demoralised, the Paladin fled. The archers formed up and sent a volley but Snagrog was eager. The Paladin had fled far and though he could hslave tried to catch him to force him from the field, the orcs chose to unleash their battle lust on the peasants.

The day ended with an Krc victory, Snagrog and the big uns wiping out the archers and the Paladin rallying. He retired from the field, surely reporting on the great tale of valour done on this day by his knights and the awful beast he had faced. Of the peasants he paid no heed, for after all, they were just peasants.

Another orc victory.

Thought i would try a different kind of reporting, pardon the post count. Will post more after I sleep.

>>97636739
>>97636773
Well done anon
>>97637119
Both are entertaining reads- seems like some fun battles honestly. Congrats on murdering the lances knights before they could do harm

>>97635006
They live in the frozen north, wearing furs is entirely reasonable. Besides, Chaos Warriors have had furs since 6th ed.

>>97635363
>is it really controversial for me to say that I dont want my *miniatures* to not be toys?
They were always toys mate. They just get sold as something else to dodge import taxes.

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>>97636733
White Dwarf now has some scratch built terrain articles.

>>97635786
>>97635826
He's old lore dating back decades. GW has always been cribbing from other people's homework. It's the blend, not the individual ingredients that make the setting interesting.

>>97635994
When god voice says something is "said" to be something, it's almost always rumor at best.

>>97637165
Link to it?

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>>97636457
I mean since it’s zombie themed

>>97636531
They're too busy questing for a chance to see elf feet.

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>>97637129
Thanks man. Yeah, my logic was more or less try to trade or blunt the knights before they tore into my infantry. Then use my superior numbers and Big Boss Snagrog to swamp the rest. Big of cunnin dat.

Genuinely though, absolutely loving how Orcs play. A very resource heavy army and refreshing doing combined arms with grinding than putting my eggs in one basket.

>>97636663
Some of it comes from dealing with plastic undercuts. To avoid them they have to split things in weird directions but it lets them do more detailed model kits, but then you have to do more to assemble them.

>>97636559
Post yours first, fag

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>>97636559
Kot

>>97637278
Get that thing on a diet

>Cathay fomo box sold out already
Lmao is Cathay actually popular or is it because it’s a fomo box?

>>97637406
Both.

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>>97636457
I got in via the RPG, man that cover was 10000 times more badass than the AD&D 2nd ed Player's handbook cover

>>97637661
that is a cover of power if there ever was one
the fighting man is having the time of his life running that chaos marauder through, good for him

>>97636493
Show your work.

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>>97636457
>TQ
This two page spread. Just hit me in just the right way

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>>97637819

>>97637819
>>97637822
Very nice. Where is it from?

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>>97638102
7th edition ogre kingdoms.
Was my first army, then TK, then beastmen every edition since.

Does normal pegasus should be exclusively pale snowwhite?

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>local she-elf (blue) whore is actually a she-elf (purple) whore!

>>97638286
Looks like a tranny. Or a white woman. Same difference. Something about the neck and the chin.

>>97638292
Anon stop thinking about the trans so much. It's unhealthy.

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Talk about your current project and what edition you have been playing recently!

I am still waiting to get everything I want for my tzeentch aligned chaos warband, gonna assemble and paint them when I visit with my fiance next month. unfortunately most things I have primed ive already painted, and the weather is too cold right now for me to prime, so again Im gonna wait till march to start priming my lads after ive built them. Plan on using these old screamers as either counts-as daemonic mounts or perhaps house ruling them and borrowing them from the daemons list, if my opponent is cool with it of course. I generally like these sculpts in general and just wanted them in my collection.

planning a campaign of tow late this year, hopefully I will get everything I need assembled and painted in time.

>>97638292
Anon, women don't look like anime lolis. Please go outside and look at real people.

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Anyone using LoTR minis? How well their new Arnor (have no idea why they use green instead of white) knights and infantry scales with TOW?

>>97638350
MESBG figures are closer in scale to truescale historical like the Perrys.
However, the Arnor stuff being all metal or foreword resin means it's stupidly overcosted.
Those two riders without dismounts are like $45.

>>97637173
That looks sick, who’s that from?

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>>97638350
>>97638363
The LOTR range is out of scale with Fantasy. The fantasy models are noticeably larger.

>>97638406
I was jut thinking that new minis are a bit larger than original ones.

>>97638421
Oh maybe I don’t have any of the newer models to compare to.

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>>97638308
I have 1 1.5k tow game next week. and then the week after I've got either a 2v2 750pt or 1000pt 2v2 (depending if one player gets 1k tomb kings online) . I am using all of the stormvermin pictured at least in the 1.5k game against chaos.

as for my projects: I completed these stormvermin and 2 more rattling guns- including one specifically meant to attach to this block.

I love those screamer models, seems like a fun idea.

>>97638350
I recall the newer army of the dead were big enough to use in fantasy with no problems, but can't comment on those guys sadly.

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>>97638421
>>97638424
No, not really.
Here's an old metal orc captain with a Hobbit era plastic hunter orc, a more heroic scale wga villager, an old metal high elf, and a very recent plastic Eowyn. If there's a size increase, it's very subtle.

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>>97638350
oh btw use this site. doesn't have your new guys but it's an incredibly useful resourse. I've prepopulated it if that shares.
https://minicompare.info/?hera-daughter-of-helm-hammerhand-b-mounted=&herald-of-the-dead-b=&empire-captain-b=&empire-pistoleer-a=&knights-panther-grand-master=&knight-errant-a=&knight-of-the-realm-d=&questing-knight-command-a=

>>97638292
I agree like an Elf who hit the wall.

>>97636534
They got rid of designers who were interested in real world historic designs.

That's what made Warhammer Warhammer. It was literally a bunch of historic War hammers slamming their 16th century HRE minis and D&D monsters together. Brets were based off of stylized 13th century.

Whoever designed that abortion has never actually looked at armor, or human anatomy.

>>97636538
>girls are stupid
I thought you have to be 18 to post on 4chan?

>>97636525
cities of sigmar ass design

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>>97636457
>Do you remember which piece of Warhammer fantasy artwork first captured your imagination? Post it if so!

This piece that was part of the artwork for beastmen in whfb drew me in and got me to love the beastmen as an army way back when.

>>97636572
Why would I want foot knights at all in Bretonnia? Other than most hero releases being on foot to make you buy the foot knights.

>>97637166
>When god voice says something is "said" to be something, it's almost always rumor at best.
Nah it's pretty much always exactly what it is.

>>97638723
Siege scenarios.

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>new Cathay box already sold out
Gracias GW, needed to save money anyways

>>97638793
Yeah I wasn’t expecting it to sell out so fast. I checked today in the afternoon and it was gone already. Anyone know how quickly it sold out?

Also check FLGS websites in your country. Maybe there’s still some and you might even find a discounted one

Tons of mentions of the creation of the great maw and ogre migrations in the new book. Also multiple mentions of unnamed corsairs raising Cathay east coast.

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>>97638793
Damn you weren't kidding. I don't think the discount on it is that great though.
The contents are probably:
1 Astromancer kit
1,5 peasant kits(I'll be amazed if they come as 30 even though they're horde models that said 30 peasants is the same sprue count as 20 warriors)
1 or 2 Ironhail/Crane kits
Looking at current kits:
Gatemaster: €42
Jade Warriors €105(for 30)
For the gunners like say €70 like a single warriors kit since it's 20 models, however it's 4 sprues while 20 warriors are 6 so who knows
Total: €217 before discounts, €173,60 at your LGS. The box at my LGS is €136,00
Yeah sure you save a few bucks but nothing major unless GW blindside us with particularly nasty pricing on these.

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I just realized Ironhails have no command and this bothers me, add the complete lack of spare bits and I feel they really cut some corners here.
I suppose they're authentic to TWW at least

>>97638601
No one has cared about historical accuracy in their fantasy settings at GW since Priestley left in like '10.

>>97638848
>that said 30 peasants is the same sprue count as 20 warriors)
I fucked up, same sprue count actually.

>>97638793
still up in the UK, so Cathay iss just very popular in the American market

>>97638791
Historically urban enviroments and mountianious areas as well.

Considering Skaven and Goblins also like hanging about underground those would also be good places to set battles where calvary wouldn't make a lot of sense.

>>97638880
>his horse doesn't charge into tunnels
ngmi

>>97638725
Anon, I hate to tell you but GW intentionally lies to you all the time in the narrative so they have more room to retcon shit to sell you more toys.

>>97638876
Original (good) Warhammer was designed by history nerds and metalheads. Modern (gay) Warhammer is designed by "Warhammer nerds" and Marvel fans. It's painful, it's a crime we'll never get to see Cathay designed by the OG writers instead of the wuxia CCP approved chinkslop we've got now.

>>97638873
They can take a Champion but I don't know how you're supposed to represent it with a kit that has no options.

>>97638886
Well yeah that's why they put that there. It's pretty much the truth but if they feel like retconning they can use that as a crutch.

>>97638879
Americans
>eat up nu-GW slop like AoS and Cathay
Europeans
>still play 6th edition WHF, resistant to Nuhammer
why are Americans like this?

>>97638884
Oh the horse might make it but they'll have to scrape the rider off of the cave entrance.

>>97638893
It's also sold out across continental Europe.

>>97638892
Anon, this is how they have always approached writing the setting. That crutch isn't changing any time soon.

>>97638895
No wait, it's not. I just can't read german.

>>97638893
Anon, stop lying. No one here plays.

>>97638898
I'm just saying you can take such statements as the truth until they do actually retcon shit.

>>97638888
Old Warhammer literally ripped off the name of a marvel character to include his race and title. Malekuth the Witch King of the Dark Elves was not an original thought.

Old Warhammer is full of that shit.

>>97638907
Malekith*

Fucking fat fingered that post and failed to spell check it. That's on me. I'll dust the Cheeto grease off my fingers first next time.

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>>97638891
Guess you can use the lantern champ if you build one with a magistrate

>>97638891
Well, if you absolutely must work only with what the kit gives you then just paint his scarf and headband a different colour. Codex Astartes approved and all.
Otherwise the conversion options start at a headswap or so and, as always with such, the sky's the limit.

>>97638945
Seems like he'd make a great Stategist model as well.

>>97638945
I feel like Lantern gunners 1, 2 and 4 would all make decent unit champions as well.
Could you make some blue stuff moulds for them?

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My third battle of the day was against High Elves.

Snagrog returned to the Badlands to recoup and had begun pushing north, this time against the Empire. Unbenowst to him, a high elf patrol was scouring the nearby villages, having come from Ulthuan after a request from a wealthy statesman.

The Orcs were surprised but formed up, the high elves having a unit of spearmen, a noble, a great flying chariot thing, and some light cavalry.

Gorfang abd his crazy boars attempted to screen against the chariot but were quickly flank charged by the cavalry and struck in the front by the chariot. They were rapidly cut down then fled! The Elves restraint however.

Snagrog roared, charging at the chariot, destroying it in a frenzied flurry. However, this exposed the Orcs to a counter charge. The Noble and his spearmen alongside the cavalry, charged Snagrog and his big uns. Snagrog spotted the shiny elf with the big sword and rightly judged he was the boss. Calling a challenge, both shoved through their own ranks to face each other.

>>97638976
All true, I'm just baffled by how limited the kit is compared to other kits Cathay got.

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>>97639013
Snagrog and the Noble fought with a ferocity rarely seen and both sides watched as both utilised their warcraft to the best of their ability. Though the Noble was quick and with blinding speed, struck out with his Hoeth blade, Snagrog's thick hide and meteoric iron held. Though cumbersome, a wide arced swing saw the Noble take a serious dent, cracked ribs.

But unlike their leaders, the Elves and Orcs fought hard. The spears could not get through their hide but the big uns struck back, killing many elves. They pushed the Elves back as they reformed but the cavalry broke and fled!

On the other side of the field, Grimtoof the beleaguered Black Orc, charged the light cavalry, forcing them from the field. But in their enthusiasm, the Grimtoof's boyz ran off the field after them!

The Elven spearmen now formed up and made a deadly triple row of spears. But the Big uns being frenzied, tore into the ranks and caused a terrible toll. The spearmen fought back but cut down only a pair of big uns.

The Noble once more used foul magic and his blade, striking down Snagrog despite his Meteoric Iron. Yet, despite this, such was the savagery of the Big uns, the Elves were forced to give ground to the very edge of the field!

Grotfang, the crazy boar had rallied with his lone fellow boar boy and charged into the flank of the spearmen. Despite the best efforts of the Noble, the combined charge of the boars and ferocity of the Big uns forced the Elves from the field!

Another Orc victory!

>>97639020
And that wasn't a very high bar either with the command squads all being monobuild and all.

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The fourth and final game of the day, was a 750 point match of Battle March against Ogres!

Snagrog had now found himself back in the Badlands but unbeknowst to him, a host of Ogres were traversing the same path! This time however, Snagrog had obtained "help" from the Night Goblin Skraggit, who brought both a Mangler and squig hoppers!

The Ogres had brought Ironguts, gnoblars, dogs, leadbelchers and Mournfang cavalry!

The arrer boyz insisted to deploy up front, blocking the Orc advance! Snagrog noted he would batter the arrer boy git for his overt enthusiasm.

Grotfang, now leading armoured boars, had grown tired using their new armour and failed to charge the mournfang cavalry!

The Mangler pushed up to try to reach the leadbelchers, but failed to reach.

Grimtoof, the ever unhappy Black Orc, had far greater success, charging the dogs on the right flank, pushing them back!

>>97637358
he will turn 12 this year, let him be happy during his twilight years

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>>97639054
"BRACE YA GITS! BIG TUSK THINGS IS CHARGING! roared Snagrog.

The Mournfang tore apart the arrer boyz, having them flee and they careened wholly into the big un unit lead by Snagrog with a crunch!

Gorfang and the boar boyz were shot to bits and fled due to the leadbelchers!

Snagrog called out a challenge, but not till the Mournfang had cut down a few big uns and the ogres had killed a few more. Despite the terrible blows from the gigantic mournfang and Ogre champion's great weapon, the new Dead Ard armour Snagrog wore protected him. In response, he tore into the Mournfang, causing two terrible wounds. Miraculously, the Big uns won and the ogres gave ground.

The Hoppers flank charged and once more the Mournfang and Ogre champion could not harm Snagrog, and with a mighty WAAAGH, he split the Mournfang open, collapsing and crushing the ogre mounted. The Mournfang, despite murdering the squig hoppers, broke and fled, the big uns running them down and reforming.

Grimtoof the black orc, forced the sabre tusks from the field then charged the gnoblars, tearing them apart.

The Ironguts devoured the Mangler squig, leaving the leadbelchers facing the big uns. Snagrig continued his success, killing a lead belcher and breaking them, but could not catch them!

The Bruiser and Ironguts charged the big uns, causing minor damage, but they held. Snagrog challenged only for the irongut champion to face him.

Grimtoof murdered the Gnoblars and flank charged the ironguts unit! Snagrog finally ran out of steam, his new armour battered and bloody. Although he caused terrible wounds on the Irongut, with two terrible strikes, his armour no longer held and he was cut down!

Despite this, the Ironguts lost but simply gave ground!

The battle ended with the Ironguts winning the next round, and finishing off the big uns and Grimtoof and his boyz falling back in good order.

An ogre victory but incredibly bloody and tight!

But it was not over. Not just yet

>>97639055
Brother if he wasn't fat he might live another decade.. it's a cat, not a dog

>>97639097
Empty movement tray?

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>>97639097
To finish the day and a good catchup, I asked the Ogre player if we could have our generals have a duel using the equipment we used in the battle as neither managed to meet. He was more than enthused.

The Bruiser had Heavy Armour and Ironfist.

Snagrog as a big boss had a great weapon and dead 'ard armour.

The Bruiser and Snagrog faced off on a hill.

Easily standing almost twice as tall as Snagrog, the Bruiser was a terrifying prospect. Even Snagrog had to acknowledge he was out sized. But cunning...that was another thing entirely.

The Bruiser had fought Orcs before and though he knew they were generally smaller, he knew to be cautious due to some sneaky tricks. This Orc in particular seemed to be wearing a particularly thick set of armour, but nothing he had not seen before.

Swinging his Ironfist in a great arc and with a speed whi h belied his terrible bulk, the Bruiser struck Snagrog. To his surprise, each strike which could have easily felled an oak tree, was not able to cause any serious damage to the Orc.

Snagrog struck back and despite his best efforts, could not land a blow. Both circled each other, exchanging strikes. Their skill with their weapons was equally matched.

But the Bruiser managed to feint and noticing a small gap in the armour, struck hard. Snagrog let out a bellow, blood frothing from the wound. Snagrog, enraged, struck back, his great axe tearing into the ogre's chest, ripping two huge chunks from the Bruiser.

Both backed away, heavily wounded. The Bruiser and Snsgrog knew the battle was coming to a close, the next exchange would be the decider. Despite a flurry of terrible blows, Snagrog lived.

Snagrog saw the Bruiser had overextended. Leaping forward in between his opponents guard, Snagrog lifted his Axe once more and struck. But not on the chest, but the gut. With a metallic screech, and a cry of agony, the Bruiser fell!

After 5 rounds of combat, Snagrog was victorious!

>>97639113
Yeah, my big uns got wiped in the pursuit and I set it only slightly aside as we had come to the end. You can see my dead big uns top right of the photo.

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>>97639136
I need to say, I have been adoring my stint with Orcs so far. They definitely are less hero hammer and though the composition of my army is far less death starry as my Chaos, I genuinely am having fun. Win, loss, I just like how Orcs play. The army feels like an army.

They also feel more balanced as an army. As in, if one of my units goes, the others still have a function.

Using a mixed of sub optimal and more optimal choices, it feels nice and instead of hoping my khorne knights annihilate a unit in one go, it felt much cooler seeing my infantry blocks grind against other units.

Overall, Orcs and Gobbos 100% feel more fun and hope to continue expanding my army bit by bit. Also an odd not, while it felt gutting if my Chaos leader got killed, I was just happy for Snagrog to get stuck in and duff things up and if he fell, he could always come back for another go! Plus its funny having numerous named members of my army with quirky fluff.

Snagrog the ex mercenary turned boss. Grimtoof, the sole surviving Black orc of a tribe against Snagrog and now "blends in" unnoticed and Gorfang the crazed Orc Boar Boss.

Nice contrast to Killgore Deathblender, champion of a khorne warrior unit who got XXXX gifts and XXXX blessings, only to get shanked by a random peasant or killed by a stray arrow/gunshot.

WAAAAGH!!

>>97639136
That seems like an amazing meetup anon, and it sounds like you did the orks proud with only 1 loss all day.
With the moral high ground)a painted army) it’s no wonder you did so well.
I honestly feel the same way about my rats right now. It’s pretty enjoyable. Anyway anon super glad for you!

How are you going to expand on the orks next?

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>>97639235
Thanks Skaven bro. I actually spent a two/three afternoons getting my army battle ready paint wise and had the help of a friend, god bless em. One night, we just painted the boyz skin green! I have fought Skaven once with 3 ratling guns, absolutely mental but they def seem fun too.

How to expand, I am going to add a Mangler squig and likely, if I push to 1500, Black Orcs. Grimtoof (Borgut Facebeater mini) will finally have his friends. I actually got the mini so no problem. Then I may add one or two warmachines and likely a trio of trolls.

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Trying to figure out how to fill holes in the Welf wange with Sylvaneth models. Obviously Dryands are Dryads and Bracnhwyches are Branchwraiths.
But what do you do for Treemen and Treemen Ancients? The Treelord kits seem way too big, so I guess you'd use Kurnoth Hunters?

>>97639365
Wrong thread buddy

>>97639366
Oh sorry, by Welf I meant Wood Elves, the Wood Elf Realms army. I was trying to be a bit cheeky by shortening it to Welf. Sorry if that didn't come across right.

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>>97639365
Treelord is just treeman, note the base sizes
Kurnothi are treekin if you're fine with using AoS models

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>>97639365
The tree"lord" released in 8th edition as the plastic update to the treeman
Kurnouth hunters released in aos, but are good proxies for treekin anyway

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>>97639387
also 8th edition had pic related as artwork, half-suggesting that revenants might have been conceived as a wood elf release at some point
although this might just be a wild rider

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>>97639392
I'd also consider using the treeman on big bug as a dragon with rider, but it's probably a much more controversial opinion

>>97639387
huh, it's on a 106mm base in AoS so I thought it wouldn't fit on the 50x75. Glad to be wrong.
Thanks!

Which of the 4th edition books have description of the Border Princes (people, towns etc)?

>trying to assemble jade warriros with spears
I long for death

>>97639504
cathay cucks get what they deserve

>>97638378
It’s a current zombie mini but I put a nurgling in front of him to play with his intestines.

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>>97639013
>>97639032
Good Win against the grey-horde

>>97639533
I don't think cuck is appropriate for an popular overpowered army

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>>97639475
for WFRP?
none
2e did have a book called Renegade Crowns about the Border Princes, but that was about generating a hexcrawl area for GMs to use, set in the Border Princes rather than the cultures or history of the border princes

>>97638945
>use the table as a champ

>>97639533
You just live a whole cucked life watching everyone else around you enjoying things and then crying as you beat off in shame about how they're doing it wrong.

Definitely making your parents proud to have raised the Alpha Cuck.

>>97639551
>none
Really? They have book about Cothique but not a slice about Border princes?

>>97639583
Yeah, C7 don't seem to want to repeat material that was made in 2e, it's the same reason we haven't gotten a book about Vampires or the undead in 4e

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>>97639247
did you microwave that ork?

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>>97639591
It makes him look 'arder!

>>97639591
Authentic FW resin

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>>97639648
Thats why I prefer plastics

>>97639372
>, the Wood Elf Realms army.
So why are you asking about AoS army minis?

>>97639836
Quick question, how would you feel if you didn't have breakfast this morning?

>>97639857
>how would you feel if you didn't have breakfast this morning?
I would take a bigger lunch.

I was lopking forward to painting this model for weeks. It turned out to be miserable, but I am happy how it turned out eventually.

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>>97639941
Forgot the picture

>>97639949
I'm so glad white people giving the double thumbs up looks awkward and hilarious in every culture.

>>97639949
>we hebben een serieus probleem

>>97639961
>>97639949
oh, and yes model looks pretty great
Double thumbs up

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>>97639949
>>97639973
Pft Marienburgers

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>>97639975
Incredible Hercules/totally awesome hulk was a fun ride even if it kind of sucked

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>>97639961
>>97639973
>>97639975
>>97639988
SUPERLEUK MAN

>>97640016
Is this one of the elusive female beastmen I keep hearing about?
would

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>>97640036
yeah, my gooner army. Been doing AI stuff with them over in the AI thread for a pretty long while now. Warhoof threatening a lesser bray shaman here.
https://files.catbox.moe/hjzgxd.jpg

>>97640060
Please at least use better prompts that mask the disgusting botslop style.

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>>97640060
>>97640065
Its perchance, it's never going to be anywhere near perfect. Have to go through like 3 levels of fixing to make things great and it's really not worth it.

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>>97636559
Just finished my shaman

>>97640074
Bro if you're going to be a coomer you need to level up your painting man

>>97640163
Looks fantastic!

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finished my pegasus Paladin

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>>97636559
Shields with waterslides for my final swordsmen are drying (took me long enough, but last month I couldn't organize myself to work on empire and focused fully on chaos). And now instead of working on panthers, I've built this sorry bunch - yep, they still need some GS to fill the gaps.

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>>97640477
And here's a late WIP for the mentioned shields

>>97640433
He looks great, what did you use for the yellow?

>>97640477
Where are those brown ungors from? Are those prints?

>>97640498
TTC warm yellow triad

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>>97636457
Do you remember which piece of Warhammer fantasy artwork first captured your imagination?

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>>97640498
Grashrak's Despoilers - warband from Warhammer Underworlds. Great set. You also get a nice shaman and wargor (I've put mine into the chariot)

>>97640433
Why'd GW give them goat beards?

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Had a 500p battle march game today to kick off a Path to Glory campaign. I was met with Warriors of Chaos, and both of us had fun casual lists. My opponent had some warriors, marauders on horses, a few warhounds, a single Dragon Ogre and a sorcerer.
We were both also still very rusty with the rules, so to learn and make things fair the game took a bit longer than usual, but it was fun. Unfortunately I lost, with my beastlord being taken out fairly early in the game from a duel where I whiffed all the dice rolls.
In the end only my shaman was still alive on the field when the game ended, but it wasn't a curb stomp and my loss felt fair.

>>97638292
Sounds like cope from a fecaloid

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>>97636457
This and the 6th ed dwarf armybooks various art bits

>>97640645
>Path to Glory campaign
The 6th ed one?

>>97640695
Nah the ones from the The Razing of Westerland journal.

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>>97640516
I remember always stealing my dad's rulebook off his bookshelf and jacking it to this pic when I was a little kid

>>97640737
>that tasteful hint of bush
How did they get away with this

>>97640684
Sorry, gweilo, this is our game. Gweilo can play 40gay or smegmar instead while jerking little YTPP to our superior oriental women.

>>97640787
I don't recognize half these words and I feel strangely lucky for that

>>97640737
See, cooming to elves is a Warhammer tradition.
>um it's a ny-
Zip it, nerd.

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Oh those frog goofballs

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Guess they did actually mess up with the transfers.
Of course this was before 6e established new heraldry rules.

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Have you ever gamed with a sexually attractive foid?

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>>97640885

>>97638630

Nah Sisters of Battle are awesome. Nothing to do with girls being stupid, more just GW messing up the Bretonnian background.

Women fighting as knights with the horrors of what they came up against makes no sense, they're simply not strong enough.

>>97640987
Those were just employees of the organisers or the venue that were asked to pose for a (promotional?) photo. No way women in dresses are playing wargames.

>>97640987
>those two dudes caught like deer in headlights

>>97640994
>1478
>folly of unnamed knight in cathay

>1847
>folly of prince rodrik in lustria

>>97641072
a kingdom, whos military consists mainly out of knights and bowshooting peasants, being relevant in a setting where black powder is common is already stupid. female knights dont make any less sense than that.

>>97641150
bretonnians have FLYING cavalry, I don't think you understand how much of a gamechanger that is, they might as well be teleporting knights

>>97641123
Obviously employees you can see the nametag on one of them

>>97641150
Knights, bows, crossbows and guns co-existed for centuries.
The Empire is technologically at the point just before gunpowder technology made the other 2 obsolete, and led to changes in Cavalry.

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>>97641150

>>97641150
Monty Python sketch > "it's all made up who cares?" cop out.

>>97641217
I'm anti-female-knight but that's not even remotely the argument he was making and it feels like you just kneejerk posted this

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Gotta say the default Cathay transfers are surprisingly robust, including things like distinctions between northern and imperial armies.

>>97641305
It very much is just >you can accept this but you can't accept female knights, huh Chud?
Same energy

So how busted is the new Cathay stuff?

>>97641386
The odd thing is, there's lots of women Bret knights already. They're just pretending to be men like a Terry Pratchett novel.

>>97641395
Cathay got nerfed. The new stuff isn't particularly over powered unless a ws2 s3 unit with a 6+ save at most getting asf when charged is too much.

Man some ranges really got fucked over by not being stocked in stores huh? Even lots of plastics like new Ellyrian reavers didn't make the cut. Elves in general seem pretty fucked over.

>>97641413
I mean how many attacks can you make with it?

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>>97641436
Base rank.
+1 rank because long spear.
+1 rank because charged infantry.
So no more than a regular block of spearmen.
Their "power" comes from being 4 points unarmored and the ability to play to deploy from ambush, but they're kinda too shit to use in an offensive manner.

>>97640737
Which rulebook is this from?

>>97641433
>plastics like new Ellyrian reavers
I wonder what they didn't put that one in stores at least with the old Maruaders and maruder horsemen, you could argue they were getting replaced and had just been sold in AoS, but the Ellyrian reavers are in theory a new kit, so their exclusion from stores makes little sense unless GW plans on replacing them soon

>>97641471
3.5

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>>97640994

>>97641466
I mean 28 ASF WS2 S3 attacks for 120 points still seems pretty decent. You kind of really don't want to charge T3 5+ into them. Seems good as a holding unit.

>>97641491
I guess he didn't get retconned out since he exists after TOW time period

>>97641497
They lack the same utility as say, regular spearmen. Since those can charge in, with hand weapon and shield, and get their save to 4+ that way.
But yeah, you likely just want to park a load of them to hold a flank or piece of terrain.

>>97641491
I'm reminded that, to the Hung, the most beautiful women in all the world aren't the dark elves, not the dragons or shugengan of Cathay, nor succubi demons of chaos.
It is normal Nipponese women.
Gives me a chuckle.

>>97641547
Where is that from?

>>97641582
Some dubiously canon thing from like 3rd edition. I think in the same place it mentions how Nippon has the strongest fleet in the world. Somehow. Despite being in perpetual civil war. And sengoku era Japan having such a dogshit navy one guy putting armor on one ship soloed it twice.

If the winds of magic each received a sort of elemental patron, like an incarnate god, which would be the strongest?

>>97641150

Archery was still relevant even to the 1600s, especially the further east you went. Raimondo Montecuccoli, a famous military commander who fought in the 30 years war and against the ottomans stated that the Turkish mounted archers were as effective as troops wielding firearms. A significant portion of the troops that Jan Sobieski commanded to relieve Vienna in 1683 were medium cavalry, who had bows. But I think the popularity of mounted archery even to the 1600s can be explained by how inaccurate harquebuses and the like were. For example, in the English civil war and the 30 years war the most elite cavalry forces would rather charge in and use their pistols at point-blank range than shoot from afar, which wasn't very effective at the time.

>>97641676
The Navy was to justify why they could fight all the other factions despite being on the other side of the planet

>>97641676
>Somehow
they've got gojira on their side

>>97639836
Ooh, anon, this is really cool, you can use models for stuff other than what GW says. I know if you go to the webstore it says this model represents this unit for this game, but if you want you can use it to represent a different unit in a different game. You can even take pieces from multiple models and combine them in new ways to make unique models! It's called kitbashing or customizing, and it's one of the neatest parts of the hobby.

You should give it a try, I bet you'd have fun being creative.

Y'know, technically you can even use models that aren't made by GW, but I think that might be a bit advanced for you right now. Baby steps, y'know?

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>>97636457
>TQ
More or less. I suppose it's between this one:

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>>97641860
And this:

>>97641863
SUPREME

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Tell me about YOUR DUDES and the lady BATTLE they fought?

Don't engage the troll, report for off topic and move on.

>>97642154
Who makes these minis? They don't look like the usual suspect, ie. perries

is there a limit on how many times you can use a bound spell? is it once per game like a scroll or a potion, or can it be used every turn?

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>>97636457
>TQ: There's a lot of Chaos art I could put here, but this is the one I've got saved.

>>97642235
Every turn unless the magic item it's attached to states otherwise.

>>97642154
A Warhammer ToW player would never paint that many figures, not in a million years

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>>97642244
okay, in the case of the jade sentinel it says the controlling player knows a single spell chosen from the lore of battle magic or elementalism

do i just get to choose one from the lore? or do i still roll a d6 to generate the spell known and then choose between it or the signature spell?

>>97642259
Chosen means chosen, yes.

>>97642245
You’re right. I am painting a vampire count army. I have almost 30 zombies down many more to go before I get to 80… I have promised myself I won’t play a match till all my dudes are painted.

>>97642299
Based!

>>97642226
There's Perrys, yes. But also Victrix, Hät, Warlord, and WGA.
I want to say they're Victrix.

>>97642245
I wonder what causes this. A lot of GW game players just will never finish painting an army of <50 figures, but any rando that thinks the period is cool is gonna be fielding several fully painted units of 24+ infantrymen.
And Napoleonic cavalry is pure hell to paint, so many small details.

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me brother inlaw wants to do 750pts of warhammer old world with his buddies and I got roped in
so how do I do 750 points of them night gobbins/trolls/squigs? i dont even know how many models that would be
is Skarsnik like, 200 pts on his own?

>>97642439
https://old-world-builder.com/new
start experimenting

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so anons who have been playing battlemarch a question

do you actually use the smaller board size?
I've got a suprise game of battlemarch coming up at mine this evening- so I'm just wondering what your general consensus is.
Ork friend who played 4 battlemarches in one day- I'm curious

>>97642439
Skarsnik isn’t in TOW, but if you have the model I would just proxy him as a NG hero. As the other anon posted, use oldworldbuilder. Set it to Battle March and 750 points, and play around with it. Shouldn’t be too hard to make a list with what you want.

>>97640413
Thanks brother, excited to have the rest of the army painted

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>>97642492
I just went ahead and smashed out a list and set up a table. -
Heres my list:
Copy of Battlemarch rats [749 pts]
Warhammer: The Old World, Skaven, Renegade, Battle March

Warlock Engineer, Wizard [Level 1 Wizard], Ruby Ring of Ruin, Battle Magic - 110
Skaven Chieftain, Halberd, Heavy armour, Shield, General - 53
24 Clanrats, Light armour, Shield, 1x Weapon Team [Hand weapons + Ratling Gun + Light armour], Full Command - 202
25 Giant Rats, Hand weapons (Claws and teeth), 1x Packmaster, Whip - 80
10 Stormvermin, Halberds, Heavy armour, Shields, Fangleader (champion) - 118
4 Warplock Jezzails, Warplock jezzails, Pavise - 76
Warp Lightning Cannon, Warp Lightning Cannon,


I’ll probably be fighting my pals chaos- but they have mentioned wanting to try my undead so I could get lucky.

>>97642245
I could post some of my cathay but you would just be mean.

>>97642492
Yeah we used the board measurements as suggested. It works well and I think makes you need to think on your toes.

>>97642492

The ogre with the rat ears and a pink nose is a fun touch.

Probably going to be 40k shit revealed today but imagine if it's the warriors and we get the TK vs WE box at Adepticon.

>>97643381
They did say a brace of reveals,which implies more than one

>>97643410
gw doesn't work that way

it's black library character models

>>97643627
So the AL black guy and one for AoS then along with the Eye of Terror being shown off

>>97642492
I have a smaller board, 6x3 since thats what I have room for, and don’t bother with the smaller board size. I haven’t found it a problem as long as no one takes a lot of artillery.

>>97643730
you can easily adjust for a smaller board size by restricting the deployment zones

>>97637165
What issue is that one from?

>>97643814
Yeah I tend to use some chunky terrain like castle walls to block off part of the battlefield if I feel I need to.

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>>97638793
it stayed available in the US for over an hour, which was longer than I expected. You'll probably be able to get one for MSRP on launch day

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Battlemarch: meeting engagement 750p
Chaos v Fizzclicks warband.

A chaos warband returns to a frontier hovel demanding tribute in gold and treasure- including no small amount of Warpstone- nearby skaven smell sniff the Warpstone and hastily assemble a force to take it and lay an ambush for the chaos warband first.

- in an opening volley- the warp lightning cannon lit up the night and arced through a footstools, multiple chosen cavarly and an ogre- somehow the energy was harmless for the first three souls it passed through- before violently exploding through chosen knight of chaos.
Other shooting was sadly of little consequence- the stabilisers in the rattling gun jammed meaning all the shots missed- and the jezzails skulked near the building- worst of all Fizzclicks doomrocket(ruby ring of ruin) failed to launch.
The chaos force wasted no time however- the wizard summoning flying shadow steeds to aid the warriors in landing on the very hill the warp lightning arced behind! - they Westwood facing the machine and were ready to deliver murder.

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>>97644008
I like how no one ever draws her as asian

>>97641397
Yes, but they hid their identity because it wasn't accepted for women to be knights. Nu-bretonnia breaks the theme of a hierarchical medieval society with strict behavioural norms and makes it egalitarian instead.

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>>97644044
Second round!

The giant rats were whipped into a frenzy and sped in front of the chosen knights l- while the jezzails and rattling gun finally found a target: (they both missed)
To add further insult Skrits doom rocket once again failed to fire-
The warp lightning cannon however had no suc problems, frying an ogre- but failing to wound 2 knights thanks to their chaos armour. Aa

It looked quite grim as the chaos knights and ogres combine charged the giant rats- but then a miracle- the chaos sorcerer suffered the most deadly of miscasts and blew up 2 chosen knights- blunting his own charge!
(They still absolutely murdered the giant rats- though skrit couldn’t help but note if he’d payed the warp tokens for a master Moulder instead of a mere apprentice - they would have stuck around)
Lastly the chaos foot troops charged and promptly hacked apart the warp lightning crew- silencing it for good.

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>>97644046
are you one of those people who thinks anime characters are drawn white?

>>97644072
They are though.

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>>97644065
Turn 3/4 skritt weapon is proved entirely defective - failing to launch.
The clanrats along with the chieftan Kratch launch themselves into the weakened ogres- Tracy himself bravely kill slays an ogre before tactfully retreating before the other pulped him- leaving an unfortunate clanrat in his place- the ogres break and flee! And th clanrats overrun into the chaos knights.

The jezzails shoot at the mounted sorcerer in 2 successive volleys- failing to pierce the chaos armour.

Lastly the stormvermin are increasingly interred by the chaos northmen behind the lines- and continue marching rapidly around to escape them- unwittingly executing a fantastic flanking maneuver.

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>>97644079
T4- Kratch once again shows the vermin how it’s done- murdering a chosen knight before retreating once more- his unit wins and the remaining knight flees! But pretty and his rats can now threaten the chaos sorcerer or the wounded but rallied ogres.

>>97644008
still available in the UK

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>>97644091
T5
Skrits doomrocket jump started by the skitterleaped finally goes off torching the remaining ogre-
Kratch feigns a charge first against the chaos sorcerer who flees/ but redirects into the ogres.
And the stormvermin attempt their first and last charge of the game- and shuffle awkwardly - clearly another clan payed off these puny mouse things!

Lastly in the shooting phase jezzails aim at the small spec that is the chaos sorcerer and his mount and let loose, killing him.
The warband was broken here, and feebly attempted a countercharge - but it was too late- Skritt rubbed his paws together- Warpstone and many slave things- this would bring much power strength.

It was a pretty close game- my stormvermin Debut for the first had them shuffling about running away from chaos warriors all game- they didn’t even see combat!
Better luck for the next time.
I can see why you play on smaller mats with this format- it’s very tense and makes for cramped deployments.

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>>97644109
I’m not entirely sold on the jezzails such a close ranged game- I’m wondering if I trade warptokens for some gutter runners instead.

>>97642800

>>97644096
>UK
Privileged UK fags think their GW experiences matter when they have like 3 stores with 30% discounts on each street.

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My WFRP 2e game continues splendidly. My group of 6 now travel the roads along the Western Stir River Valley, caught in the maws of the Turmoil civil war of 2512. Even as the Emperor's armistice reigns, the Stirlanders and Talabeclanders are still at each other's throats. Any suggestions on random encounters on the roads and rivers?

Cathay Flopped apparently, and only Grognards play TOW, according to two Canadian Store Owners
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mpyG6t0qJc

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DElf players, what do you guys think about the new witch elves minis?

>>97644613
These retards must be praying daily for TOW to flop.

>>97644613
Lol it sold out in an hour in the US, I hate anyone who dramamongers like this. Same as that one annoying trans bitch.

>>97644661
They mostly want GW to make more new models for it since a lot of TOW ranges are still mostly GW online store only

>>97644613
They said this about the first Cathay wave and then had to make an apology video after they were proven wrong.
They're just clickbaiters.

>>97644635
Next AoS witches will be wearing burqas

>>97644635
They're already more covered with the armor which isn't a big deal, but why the weird skintight suits underneath?