How can something that's the same as fantasy be better than it?

>>98146491
Sci-fi can exist within fantasy too
See: Babylon 5

>>98146491
Traditional games?

>>98146962
This board is just the /lit/ landfill

It really depends on what kind of story you're trying to tell.

>>98146491
>>98146896
Sci-fi and fantasy both exist as subcategories of a larger category of speculative fiction. What makes sci-fi better than fantasy is not that it encompasses a larger area than fantasy (though it does), it is the conventions and history of each genre.

Science fiction is forward thinking. It's speculative, more willing to engage with the philosophical questions and logical consequences of its premises. The first writers of science fiction explored ideas and concept which were expounded on and pushed further and further by their successors. The genre has grown larger as time goes on, not smaller. Cyberpunk is radically different from 1984, is radically different from 2001, is radically different from Lem's works, so on and so forth.
Again, science fiction is in its subject and nature, forward thinking.

Fantasy is fundamentally conservative. It is a continuation of the tradition of myths, folklore, and romanticization of the past. The first modern fantasy writers copied actual historical legends and myths. The writers that came after Tolkien, Howard, Moorcock, etc. copied them. And those writers were copied by their successors. The writers today? We're on like 5 or 6 levels of the snake eating its own tail. For any given piece of fantasy fiction, there's a 50/50 chance that the writer only consumes fantasy.

It's a shame because there is nothing inherently different about the kind of stories that can be told in fantasy vs. in science fiction, but the culture and conventions around fantasy are more likely to generate inbred pieces of shit.

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>>98146491
So? Fantasy settings like DnD, Pathfinder, Warcraft and like every second Final Fantasy variant has Sci-Fi that can exist within the fantasy settings.

>>98147018
You don't read shit lmao

>>98146992
This board should be just for games generals. As God intended.

>>98147048
Generals killed 4chan

>>98147028
seethe retard

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>>98147018
>Cyberpunk is radically different from 1984, is radically different from 2001, is radically different from Lem's works
You're saying that Salammbô, Conan and Markus Heitz's novels about Dwarfs and Orcs are more or less the same.

You're implying that Darkover and The Sword of Shannara are the same shit... and that The Wizard Knight is next to identical to Zero no Tsukaima.

In Urban Fantasy, apparently The Golem is no different from Ayashi no Ceres, and there's no way to find a meaningful difference between Reverend Insanity and Saiunkoku Monogatari.

>>98147200
>SO YOU'RE SAYING X???
That's strange, I don't see X anywhere in my post. Did you pull it out of your unwashed asshole?

>>98147018
>nobody copies in sci-fi
Read a book before larping like this

>>98147211
>>98147207

>>98147200
Yes. That is all unironically true.

>>98147200
based Markus Heitz enjoyer

>>98146896
>based there-is-no-such-thing-as-sci-fi poster

>>98147018
>The writers today? We're on like 5 or 6 levels of the snake eating its own tail.
You probably should consider that it's publishers who are actively looking for (thing) that is similar to (thing that made us cash money recently), and authors who actually work for a living naturally follow the same trend.

They aren't drinking deeply either, at best we get to two levels of irony, as in from Mormon Vampire Jesus Fanfic to BDSM Fanfic of Vampire Jesus Fanfic, as we did with Twilight -> 50 Shades or from LotR to US Pulp Fiction LotR - > Sword of Shannara, or from Star Wars to Star Wars, but the Elves are assholes and my family is there (Star Wars -> Eragon).

>>98147250
Reminder that Wolfgang Holbein ripped off Warcraft for a YA novel first.

>>98147215
It's implied. Maybe double check what chatgpt is sending you before posting.

>>98147288
literally who and how is this relevant or related

I predict this rancid bait will catch 200+ replies.

>>98147327
He's the author Markus Heitz grew up reading.

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>>98147018
Fantasy is the faculty or activity of imagining things, especially things that are impossible or improbable.
A world containing even a single impossible aspect puts it in the realm of fantasy. Having more and more improbable aspects pushes it further from plausibility.
"Sci-fi" doesn't encompass a larger area than the entirety of impossibilities and improbabilities, because that's what fantasy covers.

Fantasy can, and sometimes does, speculate and contain philosophy, and address the logic of its own internal aspects.
Fantasy isn't restricted to the past, because there are plenty of futuristic concepts that are, as we know them, impossible or grossly improbable. A lot of works people call "sci-fi" are actually Fantasy, because they take no effort in avoiding the inclusion of impossible concepts (often for the sake of "rule of cool"); which is odd, considering how sci-fi fans put on airs about intellectual and cultural superiority they don't actually possess.

What has been done with it doesn't change what fantasy is. What dick the mouthbreathing /lit/fags want to deepthroat doesn't change what fantasy is.
"Sci-fi" is an unnecessary pigeonhole whose words mean nothing to represent the actual contents of a work.

>>98147018
Damn this really caused a lot of asshurt

>>98147048
I think God intended for you to spill on your mother's stomach.

>>98148120
Oh shit there he is in the wild.
Good thing we don't use words to describe in contextual detail and only communicate in rational maximized totally necessary terms with zero need to clarify or elaborate all the time.

>>98148249
>a bunch of retards used these words wrong so that means my fantasy ships and lasers are culturally and intellectually superior to their fantasy dragons and fireballs
Severe delusion.
Keep living as a sheep, then.

>>98148885
No one said that

>>98148885
I get some scifi nerds bullied you when you were a kid but you've got to let go man. No one cares.

>>98147079
No. Reddit tourists like you and op killed 4chan.

Space ships and rockets and robots just don't speak to me as much.

>>98146491
This is just reddit fedora tipping "Erm actually magic is just science we don't understand!" shit. It doesn't account for true magical settings. And I say this as someone who likes scifi.

Autists don't get that aesthetics matter.

>>98147018
It's really funny to use Moorcock as an example of that

>>98146491
Having space ships doesn't make something scifi, it needs to be actual SCIENCE fiction. Therefore, by definition, any "scifi" setting that contains a fantasy setting is not scifi at all.

If you can think of Orwell or Ayn Rand or others as sci-fi, there's a ton of writers that can be considered fantasy but aren't because they don't traffic in elves and dragons, but still philosophize while using magic or the supernatural

>>98149798
>This world has rare molecules that can be turned into direct effects
>Locals call the process to transform this molecules magic
>Your AI can cover that process for you
>The "magic" process was already codified by a copy of the AI that might have arrived centuries before
The not-Starship Troopers not-isekai is pretty fun

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>>98149800
Ayn Rand wrote Superhero fiction, which really can't be sensibly grouped with speculative fiction, but instead belongs to moralistic/religious writing.

You can't call her writings Utopia either, because those are interested in the organization of society while she instead wrote about supermen smothering society with their vast personal powers.

>>98146992
I wonder why /lit/ isn't brought up more often in these type of obviously not game related threads.

Most of the nogames thread are just very basic stuff about genre fiction and worldbuilding and never even tangentially relate to a GAME.
I wonder why this is so accepted here.

>>98149732
>>98149779
I kneel before the enlightened masters of the thread. Your teachings were most wise

>>98149847
Anthem and Atlus Shrugged are science fiction. Ayn Rand has had an influence on superhero fiction but so did Howard and Lovecraft. Superhero fiction stems directly from pulps like the Shadow or el Zoro. Ayn Rand is not in the same category as those

>>98149862
Because /lit/ doesn't care about bottom tier genre discussion, it's like posts asking if their 5e build is good enough for us. Most people itt are thinking of anime in the first place, but they don't care too much about that either.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQ9ynYK7qTI

>>98149906
>Anthem and Atlus Shrugged are science fiction.
Atlas Shrugged isn't about technology, it's about a group of people who're so powerful that they can destroy society on their own, through non-participation. It's not a specific, speculative form of technology that allows them to do that, but their moralistic and philosophical correctness. That makes it a type of Rapture fiction, where some unseen, cosmic force destroys the city after the last goodly men have chosen to exit it.

>>98149862
yeah and move minis to /toy/

>>98149993
>Atlas Shrugged isn't about technology
And I don't think a lot of modern science fiction is either. It and especially Anthem is about a future society. Anthem is especially squarely a dystopian novel as much as 1984 is.

>>98146491
They care about different things and you are a big dumbo for thinking that.

>>98150095
>And I don't think a lot of modern science fiction is either.
I mean yeah, most modern scifi is pulp fantasy, like the Shannara novels. There also is a lot of social scifi, where the question is how certain technologies or alien ways of communication would influence society, human behaviour and self-experience.

>>98149862
>I wonder why /lit/ isn't brought up more often in these type of obviously not game related threads.
Because until jannies and mods stop ignoring "This post is off-topic" reports, nothing will change.
You can't convince trolls and/or mentally ill spammers to stop shitting up the board.

>>98146896
You don't really believe this.

>>98146491
I agree but [Magic is actually nanotechnology] is fucking gay

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>>98152603
Whenever you think about being gay, remember that AMERICA can bomb your village.

>>98149793
As someone that is copied endlessly?

>>98152688
Nah, America would do that for not being gay enough.

>>98146491
Nice try, but 40k exists within an orb on the desk of some wizard in the Warhammer Fantasy universe.

>>98149847
>>98149993
This is like saying Frankenstein isn't horror it's sci fi, or vice versa

>>98152688
Then America would just bomb itself

>>98152918
No, as fantasy being inherently conservative and backwards thinking, when his fantasy is aggressively 60's and come up with multiple new ideas. He is of course endless copied, but that's a problem when it comes to writers not the genre itself.
Also if you apply >>98149800 you'll get insanely disparate fiction that's hard to argue as not being fantasy. Alice in Wonderland, Dracula, 100 Years of Solitude, Master and Margarita, etc

>>98153550
I've never seen a source from this and it sounds exactly like earth in the science of Discworld, not something from Warhammer.

>>98154112
>it sounds exactly like earth in the science of Discworld, not something from Warhammer.
Ripping off better fiction sounds very Warhammer

>>98154054
*came up, endlessly

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>>98154054
>100 Years of Solitude
It's pretty sad to be cognizant of the fall of the Urban Fantasy genre.

>>98147018
Fundamentally correct.

>>98146491
I can never get my friends to play in a Sci-fi game. I've tried getting them to play Stars without Number, Space D6, The Mecha Hack, but anytime I try to get them to play anything not basic D&D fantasy they shut me down. I don't know why people don't want to play space cowboys.

>>98146491
Sci-fi is just Fantasy. Like, holy fuck, why are people so fucking stupid?! It's all under Fantasy. You can have a very Hard Sci-Fi setting, but SURPRISE SURPRISE, it's still fantasy.

>>98155302
See >>98149779

>>98155214
Magic realism isn't fantasy

>>98148120
This. If anything, sci-fi is a restrictive sub genre.

>>98149862
Because this board is not just for the game rules of games. Because this board encompasses the DM side of running role playing games, it necessarily encompasses the world building and story building of those games. And therefore necessarily is going to encompass genre convention and inspiration for story building.
It's the same fucking reason you can talk about the story of a video game on /v/ instead of it only being limited to gameplay discussion.
Also I would like to respectfully tell you to take you wannabe janny opinion and sodomize yourself with it

>>98146962
/tg/ compliant thread question
What systems would you use for a pulpy sword and sorcery/planetary romance campaign like Conan or John Carter of Mars?

>>98155214
They're from two different traditions

>>98149862
you have been told this thousands of times: moot said general fantasy is /tg/. you're just a tourist trying to change the culture of this place.

>>98146491
I'm just kinda tired of high fantasy. I'd really like to do a post apocalyptic, space opera, or Aliens style horror for a change of pace

>>98146491
Why would I give a shit about a "genre tag" at my table? What stupid ass AI generated thread is this crap?

>>98146491
Fantasy is where power is mysterious, unpredictable to an estent and based on individual talent. Sci fi is where power can be bought and follows predictable rules.

>>98147018
Summarized, fantasy is "things used to be better" and sci fi is "things will be better," MAGA vs progressive. This is why settings like 40k and Star Wars are inherently superior, because they do both.

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