To start off the thread I have a question for all kendoka.
Do you think that judges/point scoring is starting to be detrimental to kendo overall?
The reason why I ask this is because many times when talking to my sensei and other senior students the reason they give me to not pursue techniques/guards like nitō or the left kote strike is that many times the judges won’t give you a point because they don’t know how to judge it.
I also read that many waza aren’t used anymore because of this same reason.
Related to this.
To answer an anon from two threads ago, I did try to use hasso/inno no kamae in jigeiko, my conclusions so far is that its effective but restrictive, it’s a good gateway for unconventional attacks because many techniques can be done by advancing at a 45 degree angle instead of straight forward, katate men and do also come out very well but are more difficult to control than normal due to the increased force that the right arm can give.

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Currently doing old school Shotokan karate for empty hands and something else for weapons, but my kouhai is interested in Jap swordsmanship. Trying to help him out on it and possibly visit the dojos to see stuff. There's a Katori Shinto-ryu and a Shinkendo dojo here in our region (both dojos are in different cities). What do you recommend for a beginner in Jap swordsmanship? Already visited the Katori Shinto-ryu dojo and found it interesting, completely alien to our local swordsmanship. A bit expensive tho.

>>205127
There are several branches of KSR,Some considered illegitimate some not (That is a very complicated political conversation) and it can vary in quality from instructor to instructor, However in general, it would interest me a lot more.. Shinkendo, which I only know a little about, is largely based off Nakamura ryu, which comes from the Japanese imperial military style of swordsmanship, which was very much a return to basics style. KSR on the other hand, is one of the most comprehensive and oldest styles, and also covers other weapons.

>>205129
>Some considered illegitimate some not
Looks like I need to look into this. Yeah, maybe I'll do more research on the Katori Shinto-ryu branch we have here, then go to the Shinkendo dojo to check it out. Does Shinkendo do sparring though? I know Katori doesn't since I asked.

>>205135
>Looks like I need to look into this.
Its real complicated. I will try to explain it as best I can. The mainline is headed by a hereditary headmaster, and if a teacher doesn't have a relation with him, they aren't considered legit. To make matters more complicated, there is another line, called the Noda-ha, or Date that has been independent since the Edo period, so that rule does not apply to them. That does not necessarily reflect the teaching quality however, only what their standing is according to the hereditary "rights holder" and those associated with him.
>Does Shinkendo do sparring though?
I cannot say for sure, but what I have read indicates its not a big part of their curriculum. Sparring isn't a standard part of many kenjutsu systems anyway, I wouldn't necessarily take that as proof of quality, but if your friend likes free sparring he might want to look elsewhere.

>kicked from kendo after 3 weeks because I used to do fencing before, so thrusts are second nature to me but in Kendo it's a super risky ultra death move so I'm "disrespecting the sensei's form" every time I throw one
I caught one of the senior instructors with the thrust, shouted tsuki and everything, got a clean thrust and the flag raise, but he immediately ripped his mask off started chewing me and the flag guy out for allowing such blatant disrespect, before kicking me out in private talks an hour later. What the fuck man

>>205588
Sorry to hear that anon, you had a really shitty sensei if things went down this way.
Nobody can be excused such behavior teachers especially.

>>205135
>Yeah, maybe I'll do more research on the Katori Shinto-ryu branch we have here
I'm another anon but can you tell us to whom your dojo is linked?
Right now, the two offical branches are the Sugino dojo of Sugino Yukihiro and the one of Kyoso Shigetoshi ("Otake Shigetoshi").
But then if you care mostly about the level of instruction and not the legitimacy of the official lines, there are still dojo heralded by Otake Nobutoshi (Shigetoshi's older brother... it's a long story) which should be quite competent. And then there's Sugawara and Hatakeyama dojos which are another story but at least we sorta know where they stand. If it's non of these names... it's extra fishy. TSKSR is one of the most copied style because it was one of the first and most notorious available to westerners. But it also means that people tend to say where they come from when it's one of the big names. Some names are totally absent of some countries and very big in others.

>>205604
There is also a Noda-ha line that is considered legit, but my understanding is that they are very small at present and don't publicize themselves much if at all.

>>205604
I really don't know. I haven't looked into it that much aside from going to the dojo and asking around. Even asking if they still do the blood oath.

>>205604
Can you elaborate on the Sugawara and Hatakeyama dojo?
It sounds interesting.

>>205857
Don't trust my sole word.
Hatakeyama Goro was a pupil and close partner of Sugino Yoshio. He helped teaching at Sugino's dojo for a time as shihan. When Sugino died, he went on to do his own thing rather than being strictly tied with Sugino's son (Yukihiro) organisation, he was active mostly in dojos that were administered by former pupils of himself and Sugino, back in the 80s and 90s. Style wise, he was of course very close to Sugino, though there are some differences in terms of presentation and rhythm. Dojo close to the "hatakeyama line" (no such things, but you get it) aren't officially connected to the soke for the most part. It doesn't say anything about their proefficiency. Goro Hatakeyama passed away in 2009.

Sugawara was a pupil of Otake Risuke who got the license to teach under the Shinbukan banner. Ultimately, he and Otake had a dispute, also his style was diverging more and more from Otake's so he was issued hamon (exclusion). He kept doing his thing though. In the later years, the wounds between him and Otake sorta healed (or so I heard), but then Otake Risuke died not too long ago...
Sugawara's "style" is noted for the emphasis on speed. A fair criticism is to say that this speed prevents proper applications of some techniques. It's close to the Otake presentation still.

All in all, these men were important collaborators and shihan of the main shihans (Sugino and Otake), thus there's naturally value in their teachings, but they aren't mainline per se.

Then there's the situation of Otake Nobutoshi, Otake Risuke eldest son who was also issue hamon but kept the historical Shinbukan dojo and still has many dojo "loyal" to him over his younger brother, the official representative.

Koryu in the end, are political entities as much as martial arts traditions.

>>205859
Quite interesting.
I’m part of a dojo affiliated with Hatakeyama’s legacy (my sensei studied under him directly).
I have to say, it’s really interesting to read about tsksr, be it about political or technical stuff, I managed to get a hold on a copy of one of Sugino books, I look forward to read it.
The one that I would gladly have but can’t find is Otake’s manuals, they seem very well put together.
I have a doubt, I feel that kenjutsu at least in my experience, lacks a bit in terms of fighting spirit, it’s mainly coming from a kendoka point of view so it might be skewed because I’m used to the feel of shiai, but I rarely feel the appropriate pressure and tension of combat when doing kata with other students, only my sensei and a couple of other very senior students really make me feel like I’m fighting.
I don’t understand if it’s either a lack of dedication on their side or just that kenjutsu in itself doesn’t really foster/require a strong spirit like kendo.

>>205865
>I’m part of a dojo affiliated with Hatakeyama’s legacy (my sensei studied under him directly).
Arf, talk to him then! My own teacher studied in Japan under Sugino Yoshio and Hatakeyama too.

I've both Sugino's Budo Kyohan and Otake's Deity and the Sword. They are very different beasts. As the name implies, Sugino's is useful to a martial artist as a memorandum, it's a practical book, but if you haven't been taught the techniques, you'll miss a lot. Otake's is more of a "pretty book" (nothing denigrating here, it's a very common feature for martial arts publications through the ages), superbly illustrated, there's lots of interesting historical and philosophical bits, also it's much more recent. They are both very good books if you are practicing TSKSR, but for different reasons. I used to have Otake's older kenjutsu manual, it's much more detailed than the second edition, but it's not as didactic as Sugino's, certainly on design. It obscures a lot of things on purpose so I think the second edition might be more honest so to speak, plus it's in color!

If you read french, enter "otake kenjutsu marseille" in google, you'll find pdf of the iaijutsu and kenjutsu book... (but you'll have to manually enter parts 2-3 and 4)

cont.

>>205865
>>205871
cont.

I haven't done kendo, but I think I can imagine what you mean. I think this is the exact same pattern that went in the late Edo era, where people wanted to supplement kata-geiko with another form of training, though kata are great to transmit techniques and teachings. In our days then, I think it was Nakamura Taisaburo who said it best, basically, we have to remember that the last time Japan wanted to revitalize its kenjutsu techniques, it lead to mass murders in China, there absolutely is a direct connection. It's no wonder that there's zero incentive to go down that path again, in Japan at least. Also, many people appropriately would turn to Kendo for that. Several Koryu, especially such like Jikishinkage-ryu or Itto-ryu often advise people to do kenjutsu and kendo together.

I think the people who do kenjutsu and koryu simply don't do it with the spirit and intent of actually fighting (just my opinion), thus this "fighting spirit" is less pronounced and commonplace than in kendo where it's very much the point to develop such spirit, even though it's with mock fighting. It's a tautological statement sure, but then...
I've had the "chance" to be introduced to TSKSR by a guy who absolutely had an aggressive fighting spirit. Doing kata with him meant being on a spring, ir order not to catch a thrust to the legs or a quick bonk on the head. He'd happily crash into me if I was too soft in my blows, making my bokken fly through the room, etc... But I also had people who weren't exactly "going through the motions" but certainly who weren't "fighting" as well.

It also has to do with the times. Koryu aren't practical arts for a start. At the same time they can be quite demanding in terms of orthodoxy to the principles. It's not easy to be dedicated to such weird traditions. I do think most don't foster, by themselves, straightforward fighting spirit, still, it can be used to have it awaken in some people. I know it somehow did it for me.

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>>204987
holy shit this is a real general?

>>205871
>>205872
Thanks for the info anon I’ll have a look.
I feel like that throughout the ages we lost something in kenjutsu teachings, I know that it has always been, traditionally speaking, kata only and that the introduction of sparring came about when kendo (at least it’s inception) and the fukuro shinai where invented.
However o think that we lost some part of the formal training.
We do practice cuts and movement on its own, and our sensei always tells us that kata should be broken down between the guards.
But something feels missing.

>>205939
>>205872
Kata easily devolve into soulless repetition of minimal martial value, and pretty much everyone recognizes that as one of the pitfalls of the training method. It was certainly an issue in the Edo era after the wars stopped and most duels were banned. Before that most teachers had actual combat experience. As for lost things, most of my seniors know how to turn on the pressure you're talking about, but below a certain level the skill is rare, its something that has to be developed, intentionally in my opinion, and if you are never encouraged to develop it, you probably never will, unless you got it somewhere else first.

>>205939
Fukuro shinai were invented in the middle of the 16th century, shiai and kata have always been interconnected. I'd say koryu have always been "losing" something, they are living arts, it's simply changing. Samurai in the 17th century were already lamenting that things weren't as it used to be. Koryu's purpose is to change. The meaning and practice of such martial arts absolutely cannot be maintained through the ages, it's already peculiar that they are still practiced desu. In the western world, koryu are really an anomaly if you paired them with our society. You better have some pretty weird persons to seriously engage in koryu practice frankly.

Frankly, that's something you should be discussing with your dojo fellows and your master because you practice in the dojo, not on the net. You should look for meaning with your partners. Do discuss frankly with them about that sense of pressure, how to instill fighting spirit etc.

And you can use the kata for this! What I've used and been taught is for instance, in Kasumi no Tachi, when tori goes: tori - wakitori - hidari do - shissai - men (shissai men for both actually), this is a perfect moment to train aggression and fighting spirit. In this part of the kata, you are supposed to strike your blow with full commitment (since maai protects you) and whoever displace the other... well achieves the technique... I think it helps to have a known, "safe" moment, where you can lash out through a technique.
People don't use kiai enough too... This is a shame because it's a great tool to control and direct aggression, the screaming helps if you go with that.

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>>204987
for archival purposes, the previous thread >>179387

>>204987
Due to a very unfortunate work schedule I can’t attend to keiko regularly, and won’t be able for a while.
As you can imagine my technique is degrading (doesn’t help that kenjutsu is slipping through, especially with how I cut and sometimes even in the footwork) what are some good exercises to do at home to better my kendo?
For conditioning I do at least 100 suburi plus all the standard warm up and on other days do weight training as well.
For precision I place my spare shinai on a stand and try to hit the tsuka.
My sensei told me a training technique that his sensei used to use but I think it’s too early for me to train for tsuki especially at the precision required for that type of training.
Mainly I would like some tips on ways to better my tenouchi and the explosiveness of my legs.
I’ve been also told by him that in his opinion I don’t believe enough in my kendo and that’s costing me a good bit of extra performance however I have no clue how to better this part apart from doing jigeiko and shiai more frequently.
>inb4 ask your sensei
I would if I could

>>207578
What rank if any/how long practicing?

No matter what you do, focus on quality over quantity. Train your stamina/cardio through other means that isn't kendo so you aren't ingraining bad reps into your muscle memory.

When you do practice, film yourself and be critical but fair. Watch youtube videos on the basics, because no matter where you are in skill, everyone goes back to polishing their basics.

>Mainly I would like some tips on ways to better my tenouchi and the explosiveness of my legs.
You mentioned you were hitting the tsuka. Instead of hitting the tsuka, stop your cut right before it hits and try to get as close as you can without hitting it. That will help with relaxing your hands for proper tenouchi.

>explosiveness of my legs
footwork drills, but focus on being quick to reset yourself and having your weight where it needs to be to launch forward without adjusting.

>>207617
>what rank you are/how long have you been practicing?
I don’t have a rank yet, once again work managed to get in the way with impeccable timing, however according to my sensei I’m well within the standard of a first dan, I’ve been doing kendo for two years now.
Although I’m not going as much as I would because I have to commute to another country for work every couple of days (and those days are pretty much work only since I either finish too late or I have to sleep because I wake up too early).
I aim to get something out of my kendo journey, maybe I’ll take a shot at getting in the national team but that all depends on how well and frequently I train as well as, of course, tournament results.

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I'm here. I'm observing.

Is kenjutsu fake?

>>209110
No, why would you think this?

>>209140
Idk I see a bunch of people going around saying they are teaching kenjutsu and it looks fake as fuck. So then you wonder, is it all fake nowadays? Maybe the art has been lost in a sea of fakes?

>>209185
Most people teaching a "kenjutsu" class probably are fake. Actual styles of kenjutsu tend to call themselves by the style name, and have a clear lineage, usually with active ties in Japan.

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For my birthday, my father-in-law has gifted me a tantō. I will eventually get iaido lessons, but I wanted to ask: in the meantime, is it worth to practice with the tantō alone or is its worth tied to the use of the katana and wakizashi? Thanks in advance.

Pic mostly unrelated.

>>209855
Tanto won't be covered by most iaido schools. The tanto is a knife and only certain schools study it, particularly jujutsu schools. Even then they mostly use wooden knives because a sharp tanto would be rather dangerous to practice with.
In any case you can't learn any authentic Japanese martial art online or by yourself. You need to find a teacher.

>>209855
As this anon said >>209858
Instead of iaido you are better off joining a kenjutsu club (read about what style they practice before joining), be warned however, most of the times the shorter weapons (kodachi, tanto, empty hand) techniques are taught at the end of the curriculum so you might need to attend for a long time before learning to use it.
Bottom line is, get a teacher before stabbing yourself or someone else.

>>205588
Your mistake was doing kendo. Your bigger mistake was not playing by "their rules" and playing into the ego politics of the sport.

Theyre continuously being salty other sword arts exist, just go do MOF or HEMA or something.

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>>209858
>>209974

Tantoufag here. Thank you for the recommendations,. I will get into kenjutsu as soon as I can; turns out there are a couple of (apparently) reliable dojos in my area.

Also, I will not flail the sword when untrained and hurt myself or somebody else.

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I have to use my boken as a cane because I did not warm up before training.

Warm up.

>>204987
Is modern kendo becoming too “sporty”?
I recently finished reading sensei Bennet book kendo culture of the sword and I found myself agreeing with what a lot of elder practitioners say.
I can see it in my dojo too, despite having both high dan teachers and a high level of technical skills I can see that there is a blatant disregard in the ways of self cultivation in this discipline despite itself having personal growth as one of its foremost objectives.
What is your take anon and how would you guys address this “problem in modern kendo?
Shiai is important because it’s both a check of skills and a test of mental fortitude however I don’t think this should be the sole purpose of a discipline that is literally called the way of the sword.

>>211255
If you live in a hostile environment, there is no risk for discipline in becoming sporty. In my country we should use bokens instead of gunpowder weapons to solve neighborhood disputes.

Ok, maybe shinai. Bokens can still kill people.
If you live in a civilized society you can fall down the sports rabbit hole and lose your grip on reality.

But then again, we as humans evade violence and disarray because is not an ideal state. We want to practice in controlled environments. It's in our nature.

I practiced. The first week of spring ends today. My body has recovered. I was able to do kirikaeshi with another person.

>>211255
That shit was sporty from the jump, fruitcake.

It always is when you turn a martial art into this......pillow fighting.

Every day I train a little.

>eat
>sleep
>fight another day

>eat
>sleep
>fight another day

>get a little better
>have fun

>eat
>sleep
>fight another day

You should try this see how it goes.
https://youtu.be/Sn9uXABq2t4

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>>204987
I don't get the picture. Why is he wearing scuba gear? Are they about to do that Samurai swimming thing?

>>215458
Because of the bogu, the armor protection set, is suffocating and the kirikaeshi, the training exercise, is quite demanding.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnjNOIoFj2U

>>209185
the McDojos are everywhere, you have to be careful. But there's legit teachers everywhere. You just have to find them.

>>214753
At least for the hayasuburi, try to move from kamae to kamae, the guy's just doing flower girl hopping from one foot to another which causes his body not to move. If you look, the head is standing still. Try to move from the hips with the whole body, it's better to sacrifice a few fractions of a second off your speed to do this properly.

>>215918
If I understand correctly, the force must come from the thrust you do with the left foot, but also, this force must come from the left side of the hip and then, finally from the left arm. Is this correct? You project the summation of all those muscles in the stroke.

>>216012
Since it's without tobikomi, the swing should stop when you pull the back foot into kamae after moving. Activating the hips initially to move the whole torso, not just the lower body which leads to the shown-in-the-video pendulum-like movement where the head stays still while the legs move back and forth. As long as you actually displace yourself back and forth, you're doing good.

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>>209855
>Pic mostly unrelated.
Based Baki Musashi poster.

After consulting AI I have decided to choose the kendo pill. It's networking and socializing opportunities appear to be unmatched

Any thoughts on Tankendo? Saw it lately and thought it was cool. But why are they using kodachi bokuto for kata practice instead of something that resembles a Type 30 bayonet? I thought Tankendo was born out of bayonet fencing?

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sometimes I do suburi with a shovel.
If someday I have to fight, is the first thing I have close.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_AUeCPrM9g

I hope to reach a point where I can strike the hostile element with no doubt or fear.

>>222928
Interesting. Pragmatic.

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tan-kendo looks comfy. Also, is it true old kendo was mixed with aiki-jujutsu\ some forms of judo?
There's old footage of kendo including grappling to remove the opponent's protector
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O41cqvNGeU8
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28MwRsfJpuc

I've heard aikido is more performative than practical, more traditional than useful in a modern context.

Is kendo like this too? Or does it actually teach "effective" swordsmanship above all else?

>>225981
>>205865
>>205871

Koryū Daitō-ryu Aikijujutsu is legitimate but hard to find a good sensei, especially outside of Japan. Kendo teaches many things, but to answer your question - it's the product of an older kenjutsu school Itto-Ryu. Very direct and aggressive philosophy. It helps you learn how to score points in kendo. That's about it.

To properly learn to use a sword, find a koryū dojo that teaches iaijutsu (NOT seitei) or kenjutsu.

Tenshinshō-Den Katori Shinto-Ryu is the most popular for various reasons. It's also one of the oldest, and covers most weapons and strategy deeply. The Sugino-ha and Chiba-ha lines are recognised by the current sokē. Don't touch the others.

Hyōhō Niten Ichi-Ryū is Musashi's school, and still practices to this day. As with TSKSR, Niten has one branch only but "allows" the Noda-ha to practise.

As for iaijutsu (which is within the TSKSR curriculum as well), the most popular are Musō Shinden-Ryū and Musō Jikiden Eishin-Ryu. There are many more but these two are the foundation of modern iaido.

>>225981
>Is kendo like this too? Or does it actually teach "effective" swordsmanship above all else?
Kendo has never been about teaching effective swordsmanship and this is known since the 1920s when they modernized the gunto no soho for the Toyama gakko because only teaching kendo proved to be useless. It's more about physical exercise and mental fortitude rather than practical swordsmanship. It teach useful things for a fighter, but it doesn't teach swordsmanship per se, that's why they had to bring the older styles back in the curriculum. Luckily they had Nakayama Hakudo around...

Swordsmanship of Japan was and should still be found in the old koryu styles.

>>226123
>it's the product of an older kenjutsu school Itto-Ryu.
Shindo Munen-Ryu and Jikishinkage-ryu too were very influential, perhaps even more so than Itto-ryu (which one anyway?). Though it doesn't change much of what you say next...

>Niten has one branch only but "allows" the Noda-ha to practise.
>"allows"
Noda-ha is recognized as a distinct tradition. There were plenty of school coming from Musashi's teachings like Nito Tetsujin-ryu for instance. Noda-ha NIR is probably one of the only ones that survived besides HNIR of course but it's literally a different branch. Just like the various Itto-ryu ones. There's no allowing here, it's a close but different style.

>>225981
>Is kendo like this too? Or does it actually teach "effective" swordsmanship above all else?
Its like western fencing. It is a sportified form of swordsmanship that evolved from certain training methods and ideas of what good swordsmanship should look like. There are limited targets in sparring and proper form is essential for scoring a point.
>>226150
>>226123
>Koryū Daitō-ryu Aikijujutsu is legitimate but hard to find a good sensei, especially outside of Japan.
Daito ryu, which isnt technically koryu by most definitions though it kind of fits into a similar category, isn't that much more applicable in a modern context than aikido is. there are still aikido schools that train the hard breaking limbs techniques, and there are Daito ryu schools that emphasis softness.
>Kendo has never been about teaching effective swordsmanship and this is known since the 1920s when they modernized the gunto no soho for the Toyama gakko because only teaching kendo proved to be useless.
If you actually read what Kendo instructors, including military instructors said during that period, they generally considered "Kendo" very important. They advocated are more holistic approach than just sparring with shinai certainly, but the gunto soho stuff was never very "koryu" either. It was more like a basic course on cutting and sword handling for people who had already probably had years of shinai kendo practice. In fact some of them were not very big on koryu either.

>>226150
Yagyu Shinkage Ryu more so than the other two if i recall, but essentially yes. I was referring to Ono-ha Itto-Ryu by the way.

As for Niten:
There is one mainline school, the Hyōhō Niten Ichi-Ryū, which with the sokē's blessing, allows Noda-ha to practise with the "Niten" name to ensure quality control.

That's not to say it's wrong, or as bad as Gosho-ha or the Musashikai kendo hybrids, but it's still overseen by Kajiya-sokē. Much like how Sugino-ha is "allowed" by Iizasa.

>>226157
>Daito ryu, which isnt technically koryu by most definitions though it kind of fits into a similar category, isn't that much more applicable in a modern context than aikido is. there are still aikido schools that train the hard breaking limbs techniques, and there are Daito ryu schools that emphasis softness.

It's a koryū handed down by the Takeda clan, but admittedly diluted over the centuries. Those (rare) dojos that practise its preserved curriculum are very legitimate and some still do enbu. I think the last one was 2017 at the Meiji jingu?

It was primarily intended for the house guards in disarming armed infiltrators and traitors in environments where the defendants would typically be unarmed e.g. court gatherings, rituals, and to some extent skirmishes after large scale battles.

>>226170
>It's a koryū handed down by the Takeda clan, but admittedly diluted over the centuries.
This is the traditional account, but it seems like most experts doubt it now, and the art is largely believed to be the invention of Takeda Sokaku. Likewise the claim that it descends from a battlefield art modified to deal with court security has come under a great deal of scrutiny. Its been awhile since i read up on the subject but none of the scrolls appear to predate him, and all his major students have a slightly different official curriculum, suggesting that one did not exist when he taught and that the curriculum as it exists now was put together by his successors. The man he named as his teacher also appears to have had no serious experience in marital arts. Rather Takeda was well aquainted with many Yoshin ryu jujutsu teachers, and many Daito ryu techniques bear a resemblance to surviving lines of Yoshin ryu, and he lived as a traveling swordsman and budoka for years, giving him ample opportunity to study a variety of martial arts.
There are a number of books and articles on the subject, and generally the only people, at least in the west who give much credence to the traditional narrative are students of Daito ryu and some aikidoka.

>>226167
>Much like how Sugino-ha is "allowed" by Iizasa.
There's no such things as Sugino-ha. Iizasa soke authorized two dojo, the one of Sugino Yukihiro and Kyoso Shigetoshi. Both are TSKSR and there's no Otake-ha or Sugino-ha. The term doesn't exist, both dojo are sanctioned by the soke.

>>226157
>If you actually read what Kendo instructors, including military instructors said during that period, they generally considered "Kendo" very important. They advocated are more holistic approach than just sparring with shinai certainly, but the gunto soho stuff was never very "koryu" either. It was more like a basic course on cutting and sword handling for people who had already probably had years of shinai kendo practice. In fact some of them were not very big on koryu either.
Yes kendo was important in terms of mental fortitude and physical training, but it's not practical swordsmanship. They found out the hard way that kendo doesn't prepare to handle a real blade, doesn't prepare to cut, doesn't even prepare good hasuji and these from people who graduated from the Toyama Gakko.
My post was specifically about kendo being "effective swordsmanship", it wasn't and isn't. My statement doesn't go further than that.
It can't be surprising that the GnS wasn't very koryu since most of the Empire is a frank opposition on samurai organisation (naturally) and this goes to koryu too.

>>226206
>Yes kendo was important in terms of mental fortitude and physical training, but it's not practical swordsmanship. They found out the hard way that kendo doesn't prepare to handle a real blade, doesn't prepare to cut, doesn't even prepare good hasuji and these from people who graduated from the Toyama Gakko.
I agree with all this, but I think your comments misrepresent how they saw the role of Kendo in their training.
What sort of sword training would be most practical of if there even is such thing was a question very much in dispute during the war years, and though it became largely moot post WWII, some people in Japan continued to argue about it. They, that is the military instructors tended to champion the notion of Kendo and Batto as two wheels of a cart, and for lack of a simpler way to put it, saw Kendo as the "alive" or sparring portion of their training. It is a position that some koryu people also hold, but is probably more popular in Kendo circles today than with many koryu guys. Yes they would dunk on Kendo for the cutting issues, and Batto guys do to this day, but military kendo and jukendo continued alongside the Gunto no Soho training, and many Toyama ryu guys remained involved in both of those in their post war forms as well.

>>226191
There's internal documentation that confirms this, as the Meiji Enbus require a pretty stringent qualification for demonstration. Sadly very few are allowed to access these much less in the West. Apparently, according to reliable Japanese hoplologists, the documentation for Daitō-ryu is verifiable as pre-restoration.

>>226205
You're technically correct, as Sugino didn't adapt TSKSR nor receive Menkyo Kaiden afaik, nor permission to alter the ryū. However there are differences between Otake's kihon and Sugino's kihon, especially noticeable within the iai kata. "-ha" in this sense means "branch of", not necessarily "version of", considering no member of the Iizasa family is currently teaching. It's an odd time for Katori.

>>226214
Sorta kinda

>though it became largely moot post WWII, some people in Japan continued to argue about it. They, that is the military instructors tended to champion the notion of Kendo and Batto as two wheels of a cart, and for lack of a simpler way to put it, saw Kendo as the "alive" or sparring portion of their training. It is a position that some koryu people also hold, but is probably more popular in Kendo circles today than with many koryu guys. Yes they would dunk on Kendo for the cutting issues, and Batto guys do to this day, but military kendo and jukendo continued alongside the Gunto no Soho training, and many Toyama ryu guys remained involved in both of those in their post war forms as well.

The ban and collection of swords was mandated by the US occupancy, and many priceless shinken were lost, not just gunto.

As a koryū guy I admit we dunk on kendo but it's a meme more than anything. We marvel at their athleticism and reiho, as well as the commitment to the art by older and newer generations. It's suffocated by point scoring of course, which dilutes authentic kenjutsu and iaijutsu insight into the sport because of constrained environments... but it's the real deal. I watch it often.

>>226219
>You're technically correct
The best kind of correct, so there's no Sugino-ha, the term used is Sugino Dojo which is already plenty descriptive enough.

>However there are differences between Otake's kihon and Sugino's kihon
There used to be nine shihans with authority at some point! Yet even Hayashi Yazaemon sanctioned Sugino when he was chosen to write the Budo Kyohan so i wouldn't say that the differences in presentation (which are real) matters enough, it certainly doesn't matter enough for the soke, which is all that is.

>nor receive Menkyo Kaiden afaik
With respect you don't know enough as he does have MK.

>It's an odd time for Katori
Yuuup...

>>226219
>There's internal documentation that confirms this,
I certainly cant speak to this, but if there is documentation predating Meiji, at the very least we know that almost everything that has been said about the school up until Takeda made it public is inaccurate, as many of the detail Takeda gave about his life and art have been refuted by modern researchers both in the west and in Japan. This isn't definitive itself, as many legitimate koryu have unverifiable or legendary aspects to their history that cannot possibly be true, but I know a lot of very respected people who are now skeptical.

>>226225
>As a koryū guy I admit we dunk on kendo but it's a meme more than anything.
I think a lot of koryu guys have rightly moved away from this. They still acknowledge the sportified nature of it but they also note that many koryu exist along side kendo, and are often trained together in the same dojo.

bump for posterity

File: 1704046877813210.gif (531.0 KB)

My dojo is cutting goza again in a week!!

>>227877
Goza or ぎょざ?As in dumplings? Dude wtf why does every dojo have cool events except mine. Both my dojos are koryū dojos and the best we ever had were macha sweets made by the mother of some Katori Shinto-Ryu guy. They were pretty nice though desu

And we have virtually every wooden weapon for keiko we need, but still... dumplings...

>>226233
>With respect you don't know enough as he does have MK.

But the Chiba/Sugino line doesn't do licences last I checked? They've adopted the dan grading system iirc

>>226237
>This isn't definitive itself, as many legitimate koryu have unverifiable or legendary aspects to their history that cannot possibly be true, but I know a lot of very respected people who are now skeptical.

There's definitely embellishment inside and outside of the ryū, but for better or worse, it technically is legit. As for the sōkeship, I have no idea, not whether any branches resembling pre-Meiji resemble anything authentic.

>They still acknowledge the sportified nature of it but they also note that many koryu exist along side kendo, and are often trained together in the same dojo.

It's largely the reihō that impresses us, as we still hold grudges about what the ZNKR/ZNIR have done to Musō Shinden-Ryū and MJER, and that the ZNKR committee member gave themselves sōkeship over a certain -ha. And other political things. The latest 48th Kobudō featured gendaibudō as well, and those are committee invitations.

>>228027
>, it technically is legit.
While I appreciate your position, I cannot think of a single western researcher who shares your opinion, including some with Menkyo Kaiden in other arts, so if someone asked me my opinion I would continue to express my skepticism.
>as we still hold grudges about what the ZNKR/ZNIR have done to Musō Shinden-Ryū and MJER,
I am not sure who "we" is, the koryu community is united by very few things, though admittedly MSR and MJER definitely don't have the cred they would like and many definitely do hold your opinion on them.
>.and that the ZNKR committee member gave themselves sōkeship over a certain -ha.
I cannot remember an incident like this. The closest thing I remember to this did not involve the ZNKR but another organization.
>The latest 48th Kobudō featured gendaibudō as well
My understanding is the kobudo groups are not under the control of the ZNKR.

>>204987
What do I do if there is no local club and I want to start this stuff

>>228360
Unfortunately, JSA are by and large transmitted person to person, it's not the sort of things you learn in a book, especially out of nowhere. So outside of moving out ("Get a New Wife" https://koryu.com/library/dlowry7/), you might find a club in a near city that has stages, you'll most likely need someone else too, you can't really "kendo by yourself"... Best bet if you're really isolated is finding a iaido dojo and get stages I guess. Iaido is done alone, but the problem is that it's key in the minutiae, and these aren't teachable without a teacher really that can examine your form.

Some dojo aren't really easy to find, maaaybe there's one you haven't noticed, but it's not exactly the most common thing too.

>>228027
>But the Chiba/Sugino line doesn't do licences last I checked? They've adopted the dan grading system iirc
Yes they do licences, the dan system was adopted a long long time ago under Yoshio Sugino, with approval from the shihans, but it was when there was a lot of evolution and uncertainty in the ryuha. Sugino went for a different system (while still keeping the menkyo system underneath) while Otake kept the old system.
My teacher under Sugino had both a dan rank and a formal menkyo with scroll and all.

>>228360
Where do you live? What arts are you interested in? Also, though outdated, the link provided by
>>228479
is a great starting point.

>>228360
Also, there are two main types of Japanese martial arts. Koryū (before the Meiji restoration, and centuries old with esoteric teachings, traditions, and curriculums), and gendai (karate, judo, kendo... anything with a belt really...)

If you want to compete, choose gendai. If you want to study and know yourself, be part of a community, and have the time to be a custodian of this generation's art, depending on which school you choose, then koryū might be for you.

File: b5ec3ce29d962ba1dcd608ed6a3bec66.jpg (148.9 KB)

I am doing suburi with a metal rod because the flag pole broke a couple of months ago. The rod weights ten of fifteen kilograms. Is more like a spear if you think about it.

My technique is deficient. The great weight of the rod prevents me from keeping my body in an acceptable Kamae position. I am only able to do a maximum of three or five repetitions and I have to be careful with the descent so that I don't crash violently against the floor, for which I have to use the strength of both arms because it is impossible to keep control of the weight with only one.

My body feels different and I see it differently in the mirror. I am leaner and the exercise has given my muscles more shape.

My ultimate goal is to achieve absolute control and power. In an ideal world, I should be able to blow someone's head off and be able to maintain control of the metal rod at all times.

My objective is to become a mass monster. The ultimate life form.

>>230450
Cool bro
I hope you make it

>>226225
I get that kendo being as it is makes it less directly applicable to theoretical kenjutsu sparring. But kendo people almost universally aren't doing it to learn to fight with a sword. We want to get better at kendo, to test our kendo against others, to fence not kill.

If we hit people like we were trying to cut them we would injure the juniors and women. Kendo's idiosyncratic hits are about far more than sport. They're the right way to use a shinai.

What are you anons thoughts on buying a Japanese swords? Nihonto or go for Cold Steel? I think buying an actual nihonto is too expensive and paganic. The shinto shamanic elements of traditional sword making is a bit of a turn off for me, although the artistry is beautiful. While Cold Steel makes their swords with modern steel in a factory.
>inb4 that sounds soulless
Exactly and that may be perfect.

>>230516
Nihonto, modern or antique, for advanced iaido/koryu practice. Really though you should ask your instructor.

Nihonto if you're just collecting.

Modern if you just want to cut stuff in your backyard.

>>204987
Boys I’ve got a big problem
When doing shiai I don’t believe in my abilities and consequently in my kendo
Despite putting in the extra effort I don’t see improvement rather I see only defeat and in turn this decreased my confidence more and more
Maybe it’s just a slump and I’ll come out better from it but at the moment I have no idea what to do

I just found out Kendo has katas. That's pretty fuckin cool. It seems like they tried to preserve the old kenjutsu stuff in the system. I especially like the kodachi katas.

>>230676
Just focus on what you want to improve, whether it be footwork or just your waza and you'll eventually see an increase in your performance.

>>230774
I do already, I’ve been focusing o the men, the problem feels completely mental rather than technical
I step in the shiaijo and often ask myself “what’s the point? He’s stronger anyway”
I don’t know why I’m feeling like this, I’ve been on a losing streak and it never bothered me but since I came back from Japan I don’t seem to get out of this slump, I used to be cocky but one of my mates told me to stop it and I learned to him, maybe I’ve over corrected in the opposite direction I don’t know
When the shiai ends as you can imagine I feel truly defeated

>>230762
Its a result of standardization. EWhen trying to put together a national standard for police and schools they couldnt just take one of the older styles, politics wouldnt allow it,. and those schools were far to time consuming and complicated for that purpose anyway. So they got together and after some false starts they crafted a new set not attached to any particular school.

File: RDT_20250526_1816536237115869811795074.png (1.1 MB)

>>204987
A HEMA practitioner would absolutely destroy any Kendo fag in a real sword fight

>>231164
HEMAfags don't engage in real sword fights any more than kendo weebs.

File: Screenshot_20250530-015855.png (904.5 KB)

>>231168

This. We are behind seven layers of protection while our ancestors cut, sliced and decapitated humans beings.

This is the price to pay for living in a modern society. We live the most safe abstraction of the sword.

>>231164
>flamberge feder
>painted mask
>slashed breeches
This is how you know this guy in particular wouldn't destroy a single kendofag. Butterball here just has a Witcher obsession as unhealthy as his cholesterol level.

File: 1580124848921.webm (2.9 MB)

>>231797
Cope, he'll destroy you in a real sword fight

>>232376
This guys are not even doing HEMA. They are from a group out of Germany that from that I have heard do not study the old manuals, practice things that the vast majority of HEMA guys consider unsafe, and members have even died.

>>232509
>>232376

These men are touching reality.

>>234008
I imagine many sword fights irl looked like this kind of failing, but I think you kind find many examples of higher level swordsmanship in legitimate HEMA as well as JSA.

>>232376
This is the most retarded shit I've seen today lmao

Winter.

I cannot risk to get sick. But there is tension in my body. Energy I need to release.

>>235284
It is literally summer. What the hell are you talking about?

So what's the opinions on Jodo? I'm going to be aiming to do join both a Jodo and a Kendo club for the Uni this fall. Any tips?

>Went to a nearby kendo dojo
>Found out they don't do foot sweeps and heavy clashing/shoving in sparring like in Police Kendo and old school stuff
>Found out the whole set of equipment is fucking expensive
I'm starting to wonder if I can just home build some of the equipment like the shinai and the breastplate.

>>240786
Police style kendo is almost impossible to find outside of Japan and even if you do find it won’t be useful in competitions
For the equipment consider that a decent set can last you a lifetime with some almost irrelevant spendings for maintenance and parts repairs when it breaks (mostly it’s the palm of the kote), one of my sempai is a fifth dan and it’s still using his first set after almost 18 years of practice.

>>240786
wow anon, you really expected Japanese Police style kendo outside of a Japanese police facility?

>>240954
If I can find old school rough Shotokan here, then I thought I can do the same with Kendo.

>>230450
>My objective is to become a mass monster.
Just lift weights brah.

>ctrl-f entirety of 4chan
>no mention of "bujinkan"
Thoughts on Bujinkan? Anyone even heard of it?
Seems like the idea is a modern recreation of real samurai training, basically. My local dojo doesnt even let people under 18 join, which is based.

Anyone have experience or knowledge about bujinkan?

I just started Kendo back in June, I'm enjoying it and my bogu should be delivered this Friday :)
That being said, I feel pretty sluggish with my footwork, would conditioning through regular running & swimming improve the speed alongside practicing the actual footwork?

>>243757
Bujinkan is an amalgamation of a lot of things. A man named Takamatsu from the early 20th century studied a lot of martial arts, and claimed to be the inheritor of ninja arts, though those claims are considered illegitimate by almost all martial artists and scholars not connected to him. The Ninja stuff is widely considered to be made up. His student Hatsumi created the bujinkan as it is today, a kind of amalgamation of all the stuff his teacher taught. At some point he got the idea of expanding to the west. Both modern MMA types as well as traditionalists in arts like Kendo, Kenjutsu, Jujutsu, consider the Bujinkan little more than a joke. While I cannot speak for every dojo the general feeling is that it lacks the competitive edge of modern fighting arts while failing to preserve the kind of classic curriculum and lessons of the traditional arts.If you want arts connected to the samurai look into koryu schools.

https://youtu.be/GNdgf0qnhgc?si=nwGZG1Utq7LV8mGE

I just saw this entre tournament(this vid Is just one part) and i'm actually in shock, there was a ton of integender matches, and in each and everyone of them the girls won against the guys, and in all of them theguys were a Lot bigger!
I can understand that a female could win one or two matches, but the fact that the males didn't win a single match Is crazy! Stadistically at least one dude should be able to beat a woman, but in this case the female superioriry was evident, and this was a televised kendo tournament in japan, not a local thing in some country were Kendo isn't even popular, this dudes should be the elite of the sport, but the women just destroy them all

>>244719
Japanese men are basically just japanese women with slightly larger clits

>>244730
In most of those matches the girl Is subtantially smaller than the dude tho

>>205127
You don’t happen to be in Atlanta do you? I’m in the same boat. After looking at the Koryu subreddit and seeing what they recommend to newcomers I’m tempted to do Shinkendo, but only because everyone associated with Koryu seems to be a giant cocksucker who thinks doing an interview in business clothes, signing an oath with your own blood, and learning techniques and not being taught the meaning until years later is fine.

>>244719
I don't think you fags can truly measure how some japanese women are fuckin crazy about kendo and/or iaido

>>243966
I really appreciate this analysis, thank you. I'll avoid it Bujinkan and stick to one of the ones you mentioned instead.

>>245371
>signing an oath with your own blood, and learning techniques and not being taught the meaning until years later is fine.
Kind of a bunch of stereotypes there that don't apply to every art. But yes, some koryu want to make sure you will fit in and they don't have to teach you remedial skills from scratch so they require a trial period or interview. They care about tradition so if there is a traditional oath, they might make you take it, and they usually expect students to make a commitment to the art, so they might only share certain information with people who put in the time.
I certainly can't speak to every koryu art or dojo, but if you think they have the skills and can teach them, then I don't understand the problem. And if they don't have those skills I don't see why you would want to train with them no matter how open and non-elitist they are.

>>245376
The fact that they can beat guys much bigger and stronger than them is kind crazy tho, the fact that none of the guys could beat any of the girls Is even crazier

>>244719
I can't decide if the guy is really bad or the girl Is really giod

>>245371
>doing an interview in business clothes
What kind of gay shit is that?

>>245710
Which makes it clear that the guys were weak and/or didnt try.

Technique cant compensate that much. Japs are just weak bitches.

>>245769
The guys Is really good, the girl Is just that much better

>>205127
I do Katori Shinto Ryu. If it's tied to the Sugino or Kyoso shibu, it's legit. We struggle with everyone wanting to be us, so there's a ton of fakers. There are also some who trained under Otake, like Sugawara, who are terrible. But Hatakeyama who trained under Sugino is greta. Neither are legitimate branches of Katori Shinto Ryu, but they trained under the real teachers and later left for various reasons.

Shinkendo is a lesser MA, imo, but it's not terrible. I'd rather do that than Sugawara Budo. Also you get to cut stuff, hopefully.

>>247164
Do you guys Spar?

File: IMG_3993.jpg (905.0 KB)

>koryu: no, we don’t spar because it’s against the spirit of our art, we don’t do tameshigiri because of the atrocities committed against the Chinese, and we won’t actually teach you anything for years to test your loyalty
>Toyama Ryu:
Why should I do the old shit again?

File: Najing Katana 100.png (432.1 KB)

I bought a bokken with no tsuba lately. I don't do any kind of Jap swordsmanship, but I do Arnis. I'm thinking of fitting a tsuba on the bokken and making a scabbard out of a PVC pipe then making some rudimentary fittings to make it into a makeshift tachi-style suspension. Then I plan to practice Toyama-ryu shenaniganery for funsies at home. Preferably while blasting gunka songs from my phone. Imagining myself as a war criminal.
>>247164
You don't even cut stuff?

>>247640
>>247650
>trying to be edgy at the same time youre playing with toy swords

File: Jap Boi Being Hilarious.png (299.7 KB)

>>247654
The other anon is not me. I'm bored and in need of doing something stupid for fun in between serious training. I watched too much pacific war and samurai documentaries lately. The bokken was cheaper than an actual katana, and I have no need for an actual katana (I don't even practice kenjutsu anyways). I find them unwieldy compared to a sabre.
>Edgy
What's wrong with reality of Jap war crimes and making fun of them? My country was occupied by Japs anyways. Not that I hate them or anything (my ex was a Jap, some of my friends are Japs. I live in a city with a sizeable Jap population). If anything, larping and cosplaying as a war criminal is good way of getting vengeance. What kind of overly-serious, wannabe samurai fairy faggot devoid of whimsy are you?
>Still no answer
Seriously, I'm wondering if anon >>247640 said was right. The "legit" Katori Shinto-ryu doesn't do test cutting? I only ever saw some Katori people (not sure what branch) doing kata with swords and polearms (even some shurikenjutsu) a few times. Fascinating, sure. But no test cutting in Katori Shinto-ryu?

I'd really love to do kendo, but I have an implantable cardiac defibrillator. I have a plastic cover for it that can fit under most clothing, which can take an impact. Obviously I'll be talking to my doctor/the club, but does anyone know of anyone who does kendo with a similar implant like a pacemaker?

>>231164
Why are HEMA fags always so obese

>>247685
Because all fantasy nerds wanna larp and swordfight.

>>247659
>they still haven’t replied
Seems like the best schools to learn how to actually attack people with a Japanese sword are Toyama Ryu, Nakamura Ryu, and Shinkendo.

>>247801
Tamashigiri was not a very big thing during the Edo period or before. It happened, but its heyday was during the period between WWI and WWII. and indeed, styles like Toyama ryu insist even today on how important it is, but I'm not convinced. I know people from schools that "do not do tamshigiri" who have no problem doing tamashigiri, because it really is not that hard.

Has anyone ever tried Ryushin Shouchi Ryu? A study group opened up in my area. I have no previous experience with sword arts.

Dead hobby, I figured Japanese swordsmanship would be more popular on a weeb image board.

>>247805
>Tamashigiri was not a very big thing during the Edo period or before.
Wasn't sword testing done on corpses by certain swordsmen like the Asaemon family hired to do such things during that time?
>styles like Toyama ryu insist even today on how important it is
I remember hearing from some Youtube guy, The Shogunate I think, who quoted from a book by Anthony Cummins accounts of soldiers from the Pacific War using the Gunto that Kendo isn't practical at all in actually killing people in actual hand-to-hand combat since it targets hard to hit areas (the head is covered with an iron helmet, the hands are too small, and the throat is a hard target to stab in a struggle). The best part to slash at, supposedly, was the shoulder instead of the belly. And the best place to stab at was the chest of belly. More quotes say that soldiers issued the Gunto must practice tamashigiri and iaijutsu if they wish to actually prevail in combat.

>>248092
>Wasn't sword testing done on corpses by certain swordsmen
Yes, but that was testing the quality of the sword. They used special mountings to maximize cutting power and etched the results on the swords tang. It wasn't a training method. Modern tamashigiri is about testing the swordsman.
>Anthony Cummins accounts of soldiers from the Pacific War using the Gunto that Kendo isn't practical at all in actually killing people in actual hand-to-hand combat since it targets hard to hit areas (the head is covered with an iron helmet, the hands are too small, and the throat is a hard target to stab in a struggle). The best part to slash at, supposedly, was the shoulder instead of the belly. And the best place to stab at was the chest of belly. More quotes say that soldiers issued the Gunto must practice tamashigiri and iaijutsu if they wish to actually prevail in combat.
First, be skeptical of Anthony Cummins He has not trained in any authentic kendo, or kenjutsu tradtion and does not know Japanese. His video on military kendo revealed he did not even know the details of the subject, one that has been written about extensively in English. But as for the rest lets put that into context.
To the extent swords were of any use in the Pacific, they were used in ambushes, self defense, fighting people with bayonets, only very rarely people with other swords. Kendo, which is based about a more or less equal duel with another unarmored guy armed the same way certainly was not a good style for modern warfare.It is also modified for for safety reasons, making it less realistic. That said, even after the creation of the Gunto Soho, now taught as the core of Toyama ryu, they continued to practice military Kendo, and used school Kendo clubs as recruiting grounds for soldiers. Even Nakamura Taisaburo, who never missed a chance to point out the problems with Kendo, advocating training it alongside batto and had high ranks in Kendo and Jukendo.

>>248092
Its hard to take seriously ww2 anecdotes as anything more than a novelty in the context of sword arts. Considering very few ryuha ever developed techniques for use against a machine gun

>>248104
>Considering very few ryuha ever developed techniques for use against a machine gun
Okay give ANY ryuha, Japanese or not, that has made techniques or tactics against machineguns. I don't think Major Fairbairn even made any anti-MG techniques.

File: Last.Samurai.Standing.S01E03.1080p.NF.WEB-DL.DDP5.1.H.264-ARiC.webm (3.9 MB)

Is there any sense to the last part or is it just random flailing?

>>248176
The whole thing is just nonsense. Fight choreography is rarely anything approaching realistic.

I just had my first Iaijutsu trail class, it was really cool. For the other inflexible anons, how long did it take for you to sit in seiza comfortably?

>>248239
Some people can't sit in seiza? What the fuck?

>>248241
>comfortably

>>248239
the whole point of seiza is torture

I used to do seiza without issue until I read that proper form is with your big toes crossed, which makes it insanely uncomfortable for the foot on top.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/135065418521?
Can anyone here tell if this is legitimate?

Do homeowners in Japan train and use swords for home defense? Is that common? They can’t have guns, correct?

>>248953
I dont think they can have swords either

>>248958
They can unlike guns, but they are registered.

>>248953
swords in Japan are highly restricted. Its not hard to get one but they have to be registered, and only authentic Japanese swords are so easy. You couldn't order a Chinese made katana off the internet, even though its a tenth the price and made roughly the same way.
I am pretty sure historical firearms fall under similar rules. I also think there are exceptions to Japanese gun control for hunters but I have no idea how that works. I assume you have to jump through a lot of hoops and really prove you have a need for a modern gun.

>got accepted into a Koryu school
Feels good bros

>>249850
Oh nice. How'd the application process go? Did you just show up and express interest or was it a whole thing?

>>249908
It wasn’t nearly as arduous as a lot of what I’ve read online. I emailed the instructor, he invited me to a trial class, I attended and filled out an application sheet afterwards where I gave information about my job and education, I got invited to another trial class, attended and was invited to join afterwards.

>>249921
Very nice. What's the style?

>>249922
Ryushin Shouchi Ryu. I’ve really enjoyed going so far.

>>249924
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Ryushin Shouchi Ryu a modern offshoot of tenshinsho jigen ryu, right?

>>250362
Yes, it split off in 2006. Who knows what politics were going on behind the scene. The katas are generally identical with a couple of differences in interpretation.

File: maxresdefault.jpg (157.0 KB)

This is a fascinating niche "exhibition art" Koryu (traditional\ old Budo):Shojitsu Kenrikata Ichi Ryu Katchu Batto-jutsu >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvPUEfir5oc
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hK7ZP2-x8M
the movements look so clean and precise, but at the same time no a mere choreography

>>244719
I'm pretty new to Kendo, Is it common for women to win against guys at tournaments?

>>250501
I don't think women usually compete against men, at least not in Japan. I doubt they would though. Size and physicality still count for something when training time is equal. Ive also read that for Kendo, a woman's prime years are a lot shorter than a man's

>>250501
Usually tournaments have a separate men and women’s division but it does happen

>>214695
The spirit for sure

>>250521
But why in this tournament https://youtu.be/GNdgf0qnhgc?si=nwGZG1Utq7LV8mGE not even one of the men could win any of integender matches tho? If guys have an advantage they should at least win one single match

I'm noticing a bit of pain when I receive men strike. From one dojo-mate in particular, he is taller than me and so tends to strike a bit flat on the top of the men.

That got me wondering about the chances of concussion and long-term effects on brain health, like CTE, etc. There doesn't seem to be a lot of discussion about this in kendo. I guess anecdotally you look at most older kendoka and sensei and they seem fine despite decades of men strikes but who knows.

I hate the idea of wearing a pad underneath the men, but I don't really know what other preventative measures are available. I want to do Kendo for many more years, but would rather not develop Alzheimers if I can help it

>>250811
Kendo strikes should not hurt and it if its from one guy that means he is probably hitting two hard and needs to either correct his technique or moderate his power, or both.
I have heard word of mentions of CTE with Kendo in Japanese but I don't know if there is much evidence that the risks are has high as with boxing or football. As you say there are many men started as kids and who still do Kendo to advanced age. On the other hand, there are a lot of unknowns about CTE.

File: Koganei Niko 虎に切れないものはない、、、 #虎のいる生活.webm (3.7 MB)

r8 this anime girl's form ken-bros

Why is kendo so different from kenjutsu, obviously, kendo is going to be simpler in terms of how many techniques it uses but I noticed kendo is basically just smacks to the upper body and doesn't attack the legs (as fas as i know), it doesn't take as many angles as in kenjutsu and there's no sword grappling (for lack of a better term, what i mean by that is when they are pushing swords and move it to the side and the favorable angle allows the sword to reach the opponent)
That said i still think kendo is better than kenjutsu because of the speed and that they actually fight but i do think there's a lot of stuff in Kenjutsu that would be great in kendo.

>>251698
I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "grappling" but what you're describing exists in Kendo. Google harai-waza, maki-waza, hiki-waza, etc.

In my opinion there is very little in kenjutsu applicable to kendo that wouldn't already be practiced today. As kendo is based on a system of rules which does not allow things like strikes to the legs.
There would be no point in creating a system of kendo which allows for strikes to the legs or arms, because that's not what kendo "is". In the same way that Judo has no punching or kicking because that isn't what Judo is.

Tozando or E-Bogu?

File: appealtoauthority.jpg (244.9 KB)

>>251725
>There would be no point in creating a system of kendo which allows for strikes to the legs or arms, because that's not what kendo "is". In the same way that Judo has no punching or kicking because that isn't what Judo is.
Yeah my point or rather, question was why did they decide to cut out all the stuff they cut out and focus exclusively on what kendo currently does.
Im not saying entire kenjutsu systems should be done in kendo but it does feel like there's a lot of stuff missing from it.
Things like arms and leg strikes aren't kendo but why not?
Im not saying kendo should be exactly like kenjutsu but why did they remove so much stuff .

>>251758
Kendo was never meant to be a complete martial system. It's an aesthetic sport, similar to gymnastics and diving in that form matters a lot, and as for why, that's a complicated question with an answer that involves a lot of history. There's a great book called Kendo: Culture of the Sword which goes into real historical depth on the matter.

>>251758
Its not an appeal to anything. You're trying to identify something that is "missing". It's not. Kendo doesn't do that stuff because that stuff isn't in kendo. That's like asking why a basketball player doesn't practice tackling. It's against the rules.

The overly-simple history is that kendo evolved gradually as a way of preserving traditional swordsmanship through standardizing the practice of shinai fencing (gekiken) so that it could be more easily disseminated through schools.

Kendo was not made to be a simplified version of kenjutsu, they didn't "remove" anything. It was created sort of as a universal style of gekiken that various ryuha were practicing in ADDITION to their regular kata forms. And they didn't do stuff like that in gekiken because those kinds of strikes would injure your opponent. Keep in mind the protective armor has changed very little over 200+ years.
The real purpose of gekiken was never thought to actually mirror or replace the kata but provide a sort of additional training with whatever physical/mental benefits it had.

Go on youtube and search gekiken and you'll actually find examples of "kenjutsu" schools who also practice contact fencing and you'll find that what they end up doing looks much closer to bad kendo than "real" kenjutsu.
There are even HEMA weeaboos who do wear a fully protective armor practicing stuff like you describe and it rarely ends up looking good or working in my opinion.
And the few legitimate Japanese ryuha that do sparring don't really incorporate anything new that a kendoist wouldn't already be able to understand except perhaps more grappling, wrestling to the ground and stuff.

>>251759
>There's a great book called Kendo: Culture of the Sword which goes into real historical depth on the matter.
Thanks, ill check it out.

File: Atemi Waza.png (1.3 MB)

>>253437
Okinawan kobudo? Nice!
>>251725
>In the same way that Judo has no punching or kicking because that isn't what Judo is.
That's bullshit, Anon, and you know it. Judo has striking techniques and it's shown in their goshin jutsu and kime no kata. Not to mention old pre-war Kendo has a lot of grappling within the sparring and even ground fighting where to dudes would wrestle to take off the other's helmet.

>>254175
Thats all fine in theory, go to a Judo tournament to try those techniques and see how long you last before getting kicked out. The point is that both Judo and Kendo are practiced according to their own rules of competition which ultimately influence what is taught and carried down.
At least with Judo there is the sentiment that you are training to defend yourself, which helps preserve those more traditional and practical techniques.

Conversely, Kendo isn't trying to be an art which teaches you "swords", its trying to teach you Kendo. That was the point for the original anon who asked why Kendo doesn't try to change the rules to incorporate strikes to the legs, because Kendo isn't trying to create some 1:1 replication of a sword fight, that's not what its purpose is.

To a degree that's never been the purpose. Which was the whole explanation as to why the rules look the way they do now, because Kendo did not directly descend from kenjutsu but evolved from a functionally separate but related tradition of shinai fencing.
I was mostly responding to the supposed lack of certain strikes in Kendo, but with regards to the grappling, yes this was something that ended up falling out of Kendo. Although, foot-sweeps are still practiced by police departments in Japan as part of their own tradition.
However, not only is it stupidly dangerous, the historical and cultural context was extremely different. Keep in mind that a lot of the pre-war footage you see commented on is literally military training that is using Kendo. Much of that focus is not on perfecting the Kendo itself but literally just being violent and mentally preparing to kill/die.

Still, I don't think it's really missing from Kendo, as there are plenty other arts you can practice specifically for that. And again, the purpose of Kendo is really not to be some kind of complete martial system for you to learn that stuff.

>>254215
Your largely right, but neither Kendo or Judo were originally meant to be defined by their tournament play.
Kendo was in its very earliest form definitely trying to teach basic swordsmanship, its just that by that point shinai fencing as you call it was seen by most people as the same thing as basic effective swordsmanship. Of course since Kendo became a school subject, during the war it was largely swept up into the ultra-nationalistic government ajenda and used to recruit boys into military service.
In fact I would say the idea that Kendo and kenjutsu are not related is a very post WWII ideology, that would not have even made sense to many people in the 1920's and before when most Kendo teachers also had teaching licenses in various styles of Kenjutsu.
You can look at the Haga-ha Kendo today for an idea what that looked like. Your point is largely true today, though even post WWII they made some half hearted attempts to reach out to koryu schools and integrate their basic skills into the larger Kendo experience. That is how we got Iaido and Jodo. And even though the Kendo federation has seperated the two, there are some koryu were they are not kept nearly as separate.
In fact in the late Edo and early Meiji you might even argue they were not separated enough. Many students in various kenjutsu schools were mainly doing shiniai fencing, and barely or not at all touching the kata.
Budo Japan has actually punlished some interesting pieces on these subjects that I think are worth taking a look at whatever JSA you train.
https://budojapan.com/kenjutsu-iai/20230218kendo/

https://budojapan.com/kenjutsu-iai/20231211pkir/

https://budojapan.com/kenjutsu-iai/20231201gk/

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3R3M4UoSusE
>Back in the day, school children were required to learn either kendo or judo
>They even had pitch battles
Why did life became so lame and gay?

>>254293
I agree with all that. I didn't mean to imply that Kendo was always just purely for sport or anything. Obviously Kendo comes from something real in the sense that it was trained as a means to practice swordsmanship. Even today I think proper swordsmanship lies at the heart of Kendo.
My only contention was what that ends up "looking like" in practice and in relation to the actual tradition.

What irks me is you have a lot of sword guys who come into Kendo and start wondering why nobody is going for the arms or legs or whatever like they saw in HEMA or some kata somewhere.
In tsubazeriai for example, commonly the shinai ends up touching briefly against the opponents men-dare or shoulder. And inevitably someone comments: "If that was a real katana it would have cut him there and he would be DEAD!"

In my view this particular attitude towards realism is completely ahistorical, nor does it make any actual sense for Kendo to adopt it. Even in the past they recognized that there was some fundamental difference between the practice of Kendo and an actual duel.
Others have spoken about this at length of course. The reality is that the shinai is not a katana, and it does not behave like one. Yet over 300 years nobody thought to adopt a curved shinai? Or arm pads?
Clearly Kendo represents the duel, and was used to prepare for actual swordfighting. But in practice there was only a certain level of simulation that was useful to achieve.

I do agree with you that kendo vs kenjutsu is a pretty modern distinction in that training Japanese swordsmanship involved practicing both together.
I was distinguishing the two as a means to explain the origins of Kendo. As the common incorrect thinking is that Kendo was invented in 1912 by some wise gray-beard sensei who decided to make a mini-kenjutsu that would be completely useless for some reason.

>>254476
I am with you there. a lot of people think Kendo should just become 19th century gekiken. Even from a "practical" standpoint that would erase the 100+ years of refinement. Kendo has undergone. It also ignores that a lot of Kendo's rules today are their for safety reasons. If you want gekiken you should join one of the koryu or even gendai styles that do it, not whine to Kendo people about their own art.

Kendo is gonna make me such a pro at rock paper scissors!

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What kind of muscle tone and body type does swordfighting produce and favor? Need to know for drawing samurai women.

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why is there so few love for Tankendo? (and also, for Jakendo)

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>>255676
jukendo "bayonet fencing"

>and then shimpan--
you mean the referee.
>well, he called it hansoku and--
you mean a foul.
>well, and that's the only reason I lost my shiai--
you mean your match.
>I mean, well, its just that I had a much superior waza and yet--
you mean technique.

>>255677
>>255676
Somewhat niche even in Japan. very niche in the west. you'll have an easier time finding koryu, or even koryu gekiken in the west than this, unfortunately for those interested.
An anecdote Ive read is that Donn Draeger, most famous for his koryu and judo work was incredibly good at jukendo to the point they did not want him in their tournaments.

I'm getting annoyed at how expensive a brand new kendo shinai is. I've decided to make a fukuro shinai and a tsuba for it instead.

>>255677
Just use a spear

File: 1774746309665104.png (1.4 MB)

I hit my sensei too hard on men today and he was very disappointed

Are there any video series/playlists on youtube or anywhere else that teach iaido or kenjutsu principles and fundamentals from scratch, that aren't dumb 20 minute long "Here's 5 things to learn if you want to be a samurai!" videos? I want to know if there's a legitimate way to learn how to use a katana at home since nobody within a 3 hour drive of my home teaches it. it doesn't matter what school it is, I just want anything as long as it's not kendo.

>>259138
You can't learn properly online and it is a waste of time to try. If you have Kendo that would be a far better entry point.

>>258984
I almost know that feel I almost hit my sensei in men when we were just doing our kirikaeshi and instead of going the usual right I went left since my brain dropped the ball completely. I stopped right before it just seeing the look of my sensei just crumpled me into a tissue.

>pre-war kendo allowed strikes during sonkyo
fuuuuark. I wish I could punish people for not taking sonkyo seriously.

Ok, I'll be the brave soul and say what everyone else is thinking.
I wish I could use the korean velcro hakama.

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did my first ever tournament in kyuu, managed to snatch one win (even if the third guy forfeited) and could've almost done one more.
all in all it was fun while it lasted, but showed i'm still lacking a lot physically but also mentally. i was quite lucky today.

>>261595
Tournaments are really important to highlight weak areas in your technique and spirit.
I hope you had a friend record your shiai so you can see for yourself the parts that don’t work from an outside prospective.
Anyway, nicely done the first tournament is something that you won’t forget.