>>98098107
Why did you make this thread when >>98092835 is up? It's wholy unnecessary. Unless this is deliberate trolling/false flagging.

>>98098134
Not my thread. I linked my thread which is now on the bottom near archival. This is the open OSR thread.

>>98098107
Now to answer my own question, I like to tinker. I have been really digging swords and wizardry but still feel a desire to tinker with the classes. Currently it's revamping the theif and cleric

>>98098107
>TQ
I’ve also been tinkering with S&W. The main things I’ve been thinking of swapping around are
1) fighter multi attack is changed from the “attacks against 1HD creatures attack up to your level” to just, “fighter gets an extra attack at level 5 and level 10. That’s just personal preference, I don’t want fighters being blenders too early. To make up for it tho fighter’s weapons count as being one damage die size larger, so they deal a bit more damage per hit than everyone else at all times. The other is
2) thinking of replacing thief skills with the Hyperborean d12 thief skills, so thief’s would start out being able to do things at a 40% chance then progress slowly up to 80-90% cap

>>98098247
Also, changing things with the Berserker from book of options. Instead of having to roll a d100 check to start raging, you can just rage at will but takes up a full round to do it. But once you’ve started raging you MUST bee line straight to an enemy, you cannot wait around or stop to strategize. You rage for rounds = to your CON and if you want to end your rage early you have to roll on that d100 chart to stop yourself

>>98098247
>>fighter multi attack
Are you still limiting to 1 HD or just allowing more attacks?

>>thinking of replacing thief skills with the Hyperborean d12 thief skills,

What I have done so far, is rolled most theif abilities into one skill "thievery" , with the exception of climbing and hear sound. Hear sounds works the same but both climbing and thievery are modified saving throws. I will have to look at Hyborea again.

>>changing things with the Berserker
That is a great change. The d100 roll thing to use your core class ability is just bad.

>>98098398
No, just straight up extra attack no string attached at 5 and 10. I feel like the “attacks only against 1HD creatures” kind of forces the DM to keep throwing larger and larger hordes of goblins just so the fighter can still feel useful compared to Paladins and Rangers at higher levels. And yeah, I really didn’t like S&W take on berserkers. The bonuses aren’t worth standing still for 6 rounds in a row. I wanted it to feel more along the lines of “ok you can rage at will but you better be sure this is what you want because you’re not stopping once you’re going”. Idk if you ever played LoL but I was thinking of Briar for that change

>>98098450
On multi attack, I think that works. It's kinda like the 2e attack progression from weapon mastery


Not sure what LoL is.ButbI agree, it should be able to just do it's damned class feature. The one it's velt around

>>98098510
Ugh, that last part should be "the one it's built around"

>>98098510
LoL is league of legends. There’s one character whose main ability is basically rage. You gain movement speed, damage, attack speed and life steal but while you’re raging you don’t really have any control of the character. So you have to be really careful of when you use it or your just killing yourself

>>98098807
Ah, gotcha. That makes sense with a berserker, they attack. It's what they do, charge in and attack everyone. The whole ideas of not being able to use your core ability is just off.

Let me ask you guys a serious question. No trolling, okay? Genuine question:

At this point it must be obvious to the two of you too that there are literally just two people talking ITT, just like there were literally two non-shitposters in the last one (presumably the same two of you). Do you really think this has more longevity than /todd/ or /2eg/? You could take this shit to your X DMs and nothing would be lost to either of you. And hell, you're not even talking about 2e or anything else that wouldn't fit in /osrg/, so what do you even need a thread of your own for? Sincere question. How long do you figure on this lasting?

>>98098997
It was more than two but not many. Timezones alone make it more than two. I get there is not gonna be a lot of talk and I personally am cool with that. The goal isn't to troll, it's to talk about OSR without a few guys screaming x isn't OSR.

The fact is some of us not welcome in the other thread. It's not about 2e but this insane revisionist ideology about what OSR is.I am not gonna change what OSR is to confirm to a few guys who don't want it there and I don't see a point in charging in there to troll it.

I am not gonna convert to some fringe ideology to be "allowed" to post in a thread. That's not be trolling that's just me dealing with the situation on this site

>>98099146
NTA, but fuck off back to the /osrg/.
>If you asked them
And you'd be wrong. You're demonstrably wrong in a way that's basically undebatable, which is why you elect to troll because yoi'd lose any argument where you can't just scream over all the facts that contradict you.
>That didn't stop them from collapsing
The threads you're talking about only existed to create a second-class general that no new people would go to. The clique that hijacked the /osrg/ basically came up with a plan of drive everyone who disagrees with them away (mission accomplished, with that general now down to less than half of what it used to be) and then anyone curious about OSR would then go there to be indoctrinated into their cult.

>>98098997
It’s obviously more than just 2 people, the problem at this moment is there’s 2 different non general OSR threads going at the same time, so the already split OSR posters are just split even more. Idk who the dumb ass is who keeps trying to create the “OSR Thread” instead of just keeping it as “Open OSR” because his thread always ends up flooded and trolled into oblivion. Also, as for your question why I don’t go OSRG. I’m currently running a 2e campaign. It’s sandbox, no kits, and I’m going to open the table at some point so others can join and have a PC stable. Am I allowed to talk about that game over there? If not, I’ll stay here

>>98099371
Not any of these anons, but fuck of back to the /osrg/.

>but i said no trolling in muh troll posts!

First, telling you to stop posting your offtopic shit isn't trolling. Anyone going into a thread and saying "uh, this thread shouldn't exist" is a waste of carbon.
Second, you should fuck off back to /osrg/. The OP clearly showed was was on topic for this thread, and you whining that you can't stop discussion of real, full OSR wasn't in there.

>>98099146
I did not troll. I stated nothing but facts. Just because flate earthers believe the earth is flat doesn't mean it is. They can have Thier echo chamber, I am not fighting them over it. I just explained why I don't use it.

I will keep making these as long as I feel like talking about OSR stuff here. The other poster will keep his up as long as he wants.

I am just posting a topic man

>>98099330
Op here, I didn't notice the other guy posted one honestly. I just post a new Open OSR thread as the other is within 3 rows of the bottom. On a phone so those are rows are 2 wide.

>>98099078
>insane revisionist ideology about what OSR
Faggot, it's one thread on one board on one website, and you cannot stand to let other people have something that you don't enjoy?

>>98099390
Wow, what an incredibly normal and well reasoned argument, certainly people take you seriously and care about what you have to say!

>>98099479
Son, I don't go there and have repeatedly stated they are welcome to it. Hell I liked it in my OP.

>>98099460
>Not liking 2e = "flate earth"
>Thier
>Echo chamber
>But for god sakes I just want to be left alone!

Eat sand, you subhuman ditch-shitting nogames.

>>98099492
>Son
Awww the fake hillbilly no games faggot who came here 3 months ago from RPGnet?

Cute to see somebody who is a literal self-admitted immigrant from that site trying to tell people what to do in their own turf.

>>98099205
>that general now down to less than half of what it used to be
Do you actually have any evidence of this?

>>98099330
>I’m currently running a 2e campaign.
Why not just start /2eg/ back up to discuss that then? Seems like the obvious answer.

>>98099371
>how long will this last
I don’t know and I don’t care. Who gives a fuck. Why even ask that if you’re not trying to get people back to osrg so it’ll look alive again? Congrats, you kicked out everyone you disagree with and now it gets one post every six hours. Hope it was worth it

Ah some folk's bans are up. It was nice to have actual game discussion while they were gone though

>>98099529
>Noooo you can't just have a quiet calm pleasant thread, you need to beg for all of the off topic retards who don't actually play games to come back and make inane posts!!!

>>98098107
Hey Anon!
poster of >>98092835 here
please search the catalog next time
we are doing the same thing, no reason to always make a new thread every time
sorry if calling it 'open OSR' is that important to you, I honestly didn't think it was a big deal, and 'OSR thread' is just as good of a thread name imo

cool OP pic btw

>>98099626
Yeah I didn't think to look, my bad there. I don't really have the search function on the phone and tend to just glace though.I was using Open OSR to show a difference between it and the guy who likes to make antagonist OPs. It's a long shot, but done of the trolls leave em alone

>>98099748
>I was using Open OSR to show a difference between it and the guy who likes to make antagonist OPs
You're replying to that guy, Brainiac.

>>98099748
>I don't really have the search function on the phone
>ESL nogames phoneposter retard cant figure out how to use the search function on 4chan

>>98099491
Of course they do. I'm correct.
>>98099479
Not the guy you're talking to, but I just don't go to that thread because their position on the OSR isn't useful to me. You should probably go over to that thread if you agree with them though. Unless your position is so fragile that you have to break board rules by trolling in any thread that has an opinion you don't like. In which case, I mean, eventually a mod will get you, who knows when.

>>98098997
I'm not any of the people you're talking to and I'm glad there's a thread without the restrictions of /osrg/. I'm sad that posters like you aren't promptly actioned for shitting it up though. The last open osr thread had a lot of good discussion, so I guess that makes you really mad.

>>98099773
>so fragile that you have to break board rules
not as fragile as running crying to the mods for help lmao

>>98099748
>sing Open OSR to show a difference between it and the guy who likes to make antagonistic OPs
if I understand correctly what you are talking about, that anon made like one "OSR thread" with openly antagonistic OPs
doesn't make him the king of "OSR thread"
>I don't really have the search function on the phone
why do you keep using such an inadequate tool for internet browsing then? you shouldn't punish yourself like that anon
shit's just weird
anyway, try searching next time, we want the same thread to discuss the same things

>>98100015
Why didn't you just wait for the thread to get lower? There was still active discussion going on

>>98098107
>Thread Question: Do you run classes as is or do you or your GM tinker with em?

I generally run most OSR games pretty close to vanilla, largely because I want to give them (along with any modules) their fair chance. Not really fair to the designers to stray too far away from what they expected would be available to the players.

Problem is, the more I've played OSR games, the more I realized just how far game design has come over the decades. While there's plenty of good ideas, too good for them to be forgotten, there's also lots of stuff where the lessons I end up learning is why games have grown away from them. Stuff like random instant death, triggered by wanting to investigate something, and other dumb ideas where the game goes far away from any "skill" and just a matter of gambling and guessing what the designer was thinking.

>>98099703
>it really was all just one guy
Trollcow is real! No wonder he projects so hard about his strawman.

>>98100666
And now he’s banned again LMAO

>>98100309
>>generally run most OSR games pretty close to vanilla, largely because I want to give them (along with any modules) their fair chance. Not really fair to the designers to stray too far away from what they expected would be available to the players.

That is fair enough. I have run enough D&D that I don't mind tinkering out of the gate, but it's not a bad idea.

>>Problem is, the more I've played OSR games, the more I realized just how far game design has come over the decades.

This is the core issue. We have better ideas of how to do such things and "well you just die" isn't really fun for most people

>>98100666
There are a few of them, one came back after a 1 day ban. We might get the other on a few hours as he seems to be on European time

>>98098700
You're right that piracy of books was not piss easy in the 80s but I think you're either greatly underestimating the cost to photocopy or greatly over estimating the price of the rule books if you think a photocopy was a quarter to a third of the price. It was a lot more than that.

Moldvay Basic is 68 pages including covers. You can drop 5 of those by omitting outside covers, title page, intro page, the already filled in character sheet. You could drop 5 more as the sample dungeon isn't vital.

At, best estimate of early 80s prices, 58 or 63 pages at 10 cents per page is $5.80 or $6.30. MSRP of the rule book alone was $6.00.

The inside cover used to be black but it was later blue, not non-repro blue but still harder for photocopiers to pick up. Even without that being blue there was a fair chance you either wasted a page or two adjusting the darkness settings from the last person who used the machine or you accepted that you were stuck with a couple of really bad pages.

To photocopy just 58 pages of Moldvay and make it a quarter to a third of the MSRP it would have been 2.5 to 3.5 cents per page. I don't know any print shop or library doing it for that of which could have done that. Bought in bulk paper was 1 cent per page and toner was 1 to 3 cents per page depending on how much writing and illustration. Charging 2.5 cents per page when it costs around 3 cents just on paper and toner let alone maintenance costs is not a great business model even as a loss leader.

Realistically, places would often charge more than 10 cents per page. You could easily have to pay 20 cents per page. That's $11.60 to $12.60 when the entire box set cost $9.95 brand new with adventure module, dice, and crayon.

AD&D PHB was around $12 in the early 80s. At about 130 pages you're looking at $13 to $26. It just didn't make sense.

>>98101015
>$12 in the early 80s
You could buy a 3 bedroom house for that much back then.

>>98102440
No, I did not. I stated me and the poster of the other thread up at the time had different goals

>>98101015
https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/py71d9/dungeons_and_dragons_prices_through_the_years/

This reddit thread claims that B/X was 8.99 at launch, but notes it was hard to get a definitive number. Do you have a good source for six bucks? That honestly seems really low.

I could get a better deal than 10 cents a page without too much trouble in the 90s, but maybe it was actually more expensive back then. In which case it would be more like saving 30% off the retail cost, which makes it even more likely that no one was pirating it. I found the claim that B/X was easy to pirate to be very convenient and frankly stupid, as the other poster had made it up when faced (unexpectedly) with my claim about piracy today being widespread, instant, and easy- meaning that some players of modern games simply have never purchased a book or paid a dime. Which was almost never true back then.

Not involed in this do far but.

Something to think on, not everyone had easy em access to a printer. Outside magir cities you had a lot more limited options. So how easy and how much it cost could vary wildly. That's if you even could get it scanned to copy, I know I couldn't have. So they idea you could just copy the books really depends on access and honestly would have been far harder than just finding the box,which wasn't easy here either

>>98105104
>the /osrg/, where the OSR has traditionally been discussed on 4chan (including open homebrew/2e discussion and some degree of NuSR discussion).
This is a lie though, there was absolutely no 2e discussion in /osrg/ except occasionally to tell 2e posters to fuck off. I don't understand what the point is of pushing this lie, even if you're the most diehard 2efag of all time it's just an obvious falsehood.

>>98104243
Every government building has a printer, including town halls and libraries.
So anyone with a brick and some courage had access to a printer.

>>98105222
Now days, I am pretty sure my library didn't have one back in the 90s. Hell the court house had a dot matrix printer back then.The one with the ribbons and the tear away hole punch sides

>>98105222
Yea well they didn't do that to photocopy fliers to promote politics that would have reduced the power of big corporations, which everyone is already mad at and has been for decades. They sure as heck wouldn't risk jail time to avoid spending 9 bucks.

So, speaking of old books, did anyone ever use Swords and Spells (the mass combat addition to OD&D) as a baseline for anything? Some of the rules in there struck me as the sort of thing you wouldn't have unless you playtested a bunch (like the rules involving movements, attacks halfway through moves, switching back and forth between teams on each turn), whereas other things just seem like I have no idea where they would be from.

I'm sure some people have actually ran combats with it, both back in the day and today to check on it, but has anyone taken it and tried to patch the things they didn't like (like a version that uses dice or whatever, etc.)?

>>98105314
>>Swords and Spells (the mass combat addition to OD&D)

Never even heard of it honestly. I went and looked it up and while it looks interesting from a historical view, I don't think I would ever use it simply because their are better ways to do what it's trying to do.

I think some of the ideas likely got folded into other things, but D&D moved away from the war game approach faily fast

>>98105692
>I think some of the ideas likely got folded into other things, but D&D moved away from the war game approach faily fast
It held onto it DEEP into 3.0.
They just kept trying with different attempts, and I think every version of the game had one (or several) attempts to establish some formalized war game/mass combat system.

BECMI had War Machine, AD&D had Battle System (with several modules specifically designed for it) along with Birthright's own system, and 3rd edition had Heroes of Battle along with trying to bring back Chainmail as a stand alone wargame, which changed into the D&D Miniatures Game, which then changed into D&D Heroclix.

>>98105787
Yeah the company kept trying to push it and it failed every time, because the RPG fan base moved away from it.

File: 1st-Edition-Displacer-Beast.jpg (144.3 KB)

>>98098107
I'm always looking for cool monsters, but I think I've started to lose sight of what actually makes a monster cool.

I've been re-reading the Displacer Beast entry for a while now, just over and over again, and I don't know if it's cool or very stupid.

Why no just make a 2e thread.

File: 512590147_10109474384389546_4001042526481308870_n.jpg (539.1 KB)

>>98106908
Most other OSR material is compatible with 2e and 2e material is compatible with most other OSR games. The pre-modern editions are also so closely connected that discussion naturally flows from similar games.
2e may not be the most popular OSR system, but that's not a reason to exclude it, and excluding it also warps what the OSR is about.

>>98106855
It's stolen from a sci-fi book IIRC. I think it's cool, kinda deadly and spooky. It's not where you think it is, but you can see it

>>98106908
Why? 2e stuff is just normally talked about with other OSR stuff. It doesn't need its own thread

>>98106951
They clearly don't want to talk about the type of play that 2e has though. Trying to force it into their thread seems like a bad idea no? It would just cause further arguments in the threads.

>>98106855
I've always thought it was too "space alien" for a fantasy game.

>>98106951
>excluding it also warps what the OSR is about
Oh my god, what if people got the idea that the OSR is about player-directed dungeon and wilderness exploration instead of plot railroad storyshitting!!!

>>98107007
I mean, science fiction and fantasy are effectively the same genre, anon. It is why adventures like "Expedition to the Barrier Peaks" is a thing. Hell, Arneson was playing in a Roman-vs-Britons wargame once and had a druid pull out a phaser to destroy a war elephant, and his group just rolled with it.

>>98104243
>Outside magir cities you had a lot more limited options
Kinko's was founded in fucking 1970. And yes, it had franchises in small towns so don't try THAT canard.

>>98106951
Really fascinated by this cover

>>98107023
>I mean, science fiction and fantasy are effectively the same genre, anon

There's a right way and a wrong way to mix them, and EttBP may be the genuine worse way to go about it.

Mixing genres successfully is a skill that requires a fairly comprehensive understanding of the various elements relative to and in contrast with each other. If the goal is comedic absurdity, you can go ahead and just slam a flying saucer into a fantasy world and call it a job well done. But, it becomes that much harder to take the rest of the setting seriously once you've done that.

>>98106988
>2e stuff is just normally talked about with other OSR stuff.
Not really.

>>98107057
>may be the genuine worse way to go about it
Worse than what?

>>98107035
Dude there still isn't a kinko with a 100 miles or me. That's in 2026, much less on the 90s. There is a staples 30 miles away now though

>>98103982
>I could get a better deal than 10 cents a page without too much trouble in the 90s.
I don't doubt it but if go back a few posts you'll see the topic is piracy in the '80s not the '90s. The '90s are a lot later in terms of photocopying.

A smallish increase in paper price from 1980 to 1990 was more than offset by photocopiers maturing as a technology. Cost to buy/lease, maintenance contracts, and toner prices all dropped, like actual sticker prices went down by 25%. Even today the price nominal price for toner is about half of the 1980 price. Uptake of photocopying meant competition between copy shops worked in the consumer's favour too.

The net result is that from 1980 to 1990 photocopying prices dropped, easily down to 5 c per sheet though as you experienced paying 10 c per sheet in the 90s was not unheard of.

>reddit thread claims that B/X was 8.99
>$6 honestly seems really low.
Please read more carefully as you're comparing apples and oranges. I said "MSRP of the rule book alone was $6.00" and that's kind of high for a single book small. That reddit guy says he doesn't know if $8.99 was for the box set or just the rule book and that he was just guessing anyway. He attached the same footnote to Menzer Basic which he priced at $12.

1983 catalogues list Mentzer box at $8.99 not $12. 1981 catalogues list Moldvay box at $7.99 and $10.99. $8.99 is plausible for Moldvay even though I've never seen that. These aren't "at launch prices" but they're in the same year, even if $10.99 would have been a stupid price to pay considering what other stores were charging.

In 1981 GW sold the Moldvay box set for £7.50 and the book for £3.50, that's a price ratio of 2.14:1. If TSR sold the items in the same price ratio, $7.99 to $9.99 for the box means $3.73 to $4.66 for the book. If the book cost less than $6 that amplifies my point that photocopying wasn't a practical option.

>>98107066
Yeah, it is. That's the normal place to talk about it outside a few spaces devoted to settings. It's normally all over OSR communities.

>>98107051
It's the weird sword, right?

>>98107132
NTA, but the "10 SECRETS YOUR DM DOESN'T WANT YOU TO KNOW" definitely has caught my attention.

>>98107110
>It's normally all over OSR communities.
Nah, not really.

>>98107141
https://archive.org/details/DragonMagazine260_201801/DragonMagazine275/page/62/mode/2up

Disappointing.

>>98107110
Ignore that troll.

File: DragonMagazine275_0003.jpg (90.4 KB)

>>98107051
>>98107132
He's a cutie.

File: IMG_20260525_213742965.jpg (4.0 MB)

>>98107157
>Robin D. Laws
Neat.

File: Black Destroyer.jpg (119.0 KB)

>>98106982
Based A E van Vogt enjoyer. (You're probably not, not many are, but you're right that it comes from a scifi story.)

>It was then Coeurl recognized suddenly that he was on familiar ground.
>
>He stopped short. Tenseness flamed along his nerves. His muscles pressed with sudden, unrelenting strength against his bones. His great forelegs — twice as long as his hindlegs — twitched with a shuddering movement that arched every razor-sharp claw. The thick tentacles that sprouted from his shoulders ceased their weaving undulation, and grew taut with anxious alertness.

Gygax just copied the appearance. The displacement effect isn't from the story. Instead the creature communicates with electromagnetic waves and can use this power to disintegrate or at least instantly severely weaken interatomic bonds in super strong metal that even human disintegration rays would take a minute on. Unlike D&D, it's also intelligent.

>>98107141
I may still have that one somewhere

>>98107169
Half orc paladin sounds fun

File: Screenshot_20260525-214640~2.jpg (43.9 KB)

>>98107184
>Wow that displacer beast looks fami
>It was then Coeurl recognized he was not alone
>Coeurl
Well goddamn.

>>98107184
The appearance is nice. It's a proud gamer tradition, stealing looks and ideas and reading them. Although the beast does sound cool.

>>98107224
What game is this from?

>>98107141
>>98107157
This is something DMs would want their players to know.

>>98107339
Final Fantasy 14, but Coeurls have been in the game since FF2. Always figured they were just displacer beast expies. Never knew the name was a reference.

>>98107110
>It's normally all over OSR communities.
Where? People in OSR communities just talk about 1e retroclones and stuff derived from that, not 2e.

Man, this troll is THIRSTY.

>>98107715
I recall Paizo published it once under some deal they made with the estate. It's PF 1e stats but seems like they kept it closer to the source material
https://www.aonprd.com/MonsterDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Coeurl

>>98107161
>>98107731
>NYOOOOO you can't just disagree with meeeeee
>what do you think this is, a discussion board?!
kys tbqh

What 2e "OSR" content is there? Everything is 1e/clones, tips on running 1e/clones, and adventures for 1e and its clones.

>>98107927
>What 2e "OSR" content is there?
You're correct, there isn't any.

>>98107927
1e and 2e are pretty much the same system. Folks just run 1e stuff or bx stuff. 1e stuff runs with zero changes needed. Mostly in OSR circles you mix and match stuff. There was one guy in a OSE topic talking about using the 2e DMG with it.

All the pre 3e stuff just works together with little effort

>>98107927
>>98107932
2e is OSR because the system itself is backwards compatible with 1e. you can just use 1e content with the adnd 1e/2e system. I'm not gonna argue dragonlance modules are OSR because they're railroads, but what arguement do you have against using the setting itself to run an OSR game?

>>98107986
Out of morbid curiosity, was 1e dragonlance as bad as 2e dragonlance?

>>98108010
if by bad you mean railroady, then no. 2e dragonlance is a little better actually. they're plenty of forum posts that talk about it if you look a little bit. (I think the stories are fine, I'd just rather read the books then play the modules).

>>98107942
But no one ever talks about running games in 2e style or using 2e rules and retroclones never bother with using 2e mechanics and they never make adventures to be run in 2e's narrtive style?

>>98108033
I have no desire to dig deeper into the bullshit that is dragonlace. Fuck that setting

>>98108065
can you elaborate?

>>98108056
I get the feeling you're busy bsd faith arguing here. But 2e "style" isnt really a thing. And lots of folks use 2e mechanics, they just pick and choose. 2e is mechanically the same system as 1e with some common house rules added and a ton of options. It's used interchangeablely man. You need to frequent more OSR communities as it's clear you haven't been exposed to many of em.

>>98108074
I thought fuck that setting was pretty easy to understand lol. I think it's a bad setting, it may work as a book but it just doesn't as a setting. I hate the races and plot and magic system. I can't think of a single thing I personally find redeeming about it. I find it amusing it was seemingly worse in 1e though.

>>98108080
I've genuinely never seen people talk about 2e stuff out of these "Open OSR" threads. Not discord communities, not the discords for retroclones, not the blogs for osr stuff, not the adventures for osr.

>>98108141
Dragonfoot has a decently active 2e form, it gets brought up regularly on reddit and gaming discords, it just depends on which ones you are on. As I said people mix and match

>>98108080
>2e is mechanically the same system as 1e
Wrong

>>98107927
The lion's share of OSR content is actually for Basic/Expert and its clones, but there's definitely a sizable 1e contingent, especially for larger projects.

If you want 2e specifically, check out the Merciless Merchants, they have a decent collection of 2e stuff of solid quality

>>98108594
That's my point. The OP is trying to force discussion of 2e where people clearly don't want it.

>>98108646
I mean there's no point rehashing that. Everyone knows this is the case except OP.
This is their weird little hill, they want to die on it and there's nothing anyone else can do except start make sure the Japanese Holdout with down syndrome doesn't do too much damage to the rest of the community when he breaks into peoples bins for dinner occasionally while screaming about the BrOSR Gaijin.

>>98108080
>2e "style" isnt really a thing
lmao, UNreal

>>98108203
Ignore the troll.

>>98109175
>When somebody proves you wrong, stick your fingers in your ears and shout "lalalala I can't hear you, you're a troll".

>>98108646
No, I have not done that.

>if you've failed and revealed yourself as just a troll, troll harder

>>98107224
>>98107339
>>98107573

The Coeurls in the actual stories are highly intelligent and can do all kinds of crazy stuff with vibrations. The import into D&D was always a pretty cheap knockoff, turning these guys into something smarter than a beast, but not usually dumber than a human. Basically the displacer beast is a coeurl if you're looking for where the concept came from, but it's just some kinda forest or fey threat that is beast-like but smart enough to plan an ambush and deliver some XP to your adventurers as written.

The final fantasy coeurl is much more honest about its inspiration, having the correct name, but it's essentially just a tiger that wants to fuck you up unless you can train it or something. In other words, it straight up is a beast, and as such is closer to the displacer beast of D&D than the actual coeurl- which makes sense, because Final Fantasy pretty much rips off D&D wholesale.

>>98110266
Well D&D didn't have rights to the name, so just made stuff up. They would take ideas or concepts and just run with it. Hell the bulette came from an SNL skit.

The OG coeurl is scary and alien, but the displacer beast is also scary and alien, but in a different way

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I haven't made a decision on solo roleplaying yet. Is this style of play anti-gygaxian? Did Gygax ever comment on solo gaming? I feel like early First Decade Gygax would probably hate the idea so I'm inclined to dislike solo gaming

>>98110650
why don't you come to a conclusion on your own instead of copying what you think gygax would've thought?

>>98110679
Why are you playing OSR if you don't care about Gygaxian First Decade D&D? Or let me guess, you consider 2E, Traveller, and CoC OSR games?

>>98110682
i was asking why don't you have an opinion of your own instead of copying what you think gygax would've thought. Do you have an actual response to that? I question if you can actually think instead of repeating talking points in response to slight opposition.

>>98110713
How is this related to morality in any way? And once again, do you have thoughts of your own?

>>98110650
It does not matter what is or is not gygaxian. OSR games are very popular for solo play. I say pick a game system you like and a solo system that works for you and don't worry about what Gary Gygax thought about it

>>98110682
Dude, go back to the other thread. No need to troll one which you know dose not agree with your ideology

>>98110742
I think religion is a better word for it based on this >>98110713

>>98110764
I accept your concession

>>98110764
No, it was made to talk about all OSR game, not just one a small group of very vocal trolls approve of. Sometimes that's 2e, something's it's stuff like shadowdark or tales of argosa or other games such as Swords and Wizardry or old school essentials.

The point is to talk about OSR related topics without gatekeepers getting a mod to delete OSR related posts they personally find off topic.

>>98110753
Not gonna lie, that sounded hella culty. But it's just edition warring nonsense

>>98110764
Gods you are SO MAD you can't get anything related to 2e deleted. There doesn't need to even BE anything related to 2e for you to seethe about it. What a terrible person.

>>98110650
He okayed Mentzer writing BECMI roughly in the style of a CYOA Book, so it should be kosher for the first decadist general.

>>98110266
>The Coeurls in the actual stories
The Coeurl in the actual story.
There's only one story. There's only one Coerul seen in it, even though he's off to gather more. It's repeatedly called "Coeurl" without "the". It's too often referred to as "pussy" by the human characters.

>can do all kinds of crazy stuff with vibrations
It emits them which leads to pulses of static on the humans' radio, it uses the same emissions from its tendrils to open an electronic lock, it can instantly disintegrate the humans' hardest metal, and it can neutralise the humans' energy weapons to some degree.

>Basically the displacer beast is a coeurl if you're looking for where the concept came from
No. Coerul is a super-humanly strong, weird science wave emitting, functionally immortal, supragenius tentacle-cat that feeds on potassium which it sucks out of living creatures using more weird science. Displacer beast is a barely intelligent tentacle-cat that magically appears to be 3 feet away from where it is.

The only concept the same there is tentacle-cat. Gygax stole tentacle-cat from the concept.

>>98112112
>The Coeurl in the actual story.
No, the Coeurls in the actual stories.
>There's only one story.
Black Destroyer is the one story you are probably referring to, but the telling exists a second way, as part of the Voyage of the Space Beagle. These two are definitely the actual stories because they are written by Vogt.

>No.

Yes. As I said, the displacer beast is a coeurl if you're looking for where the concept came from. The displacer beast didn't come from anywhere else. The idea of a hunting cat that appears a bit different from where it is and is smarter than a lion isn't particularly creative or novel. The displacer beast came from the coeurl; if that's what you're wondering about, you have your answer.
If you're looking for something else- like for instance, the coeurl as an intelligent foe race- then the displacer beast isn't what you're looking for.

>There's only one Coerul seen in it, even though he's off to gather more.

Right, the other coeurls definitely exist though.

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>>98107132
>>98107141
>>98107169
It just screams early 00's. The layout, sensationalist headlines competing for real estate, contrasted with very well done cover art. Almost nostalgic.
Compare to other eras of Dragon, you can see the development from sometimes a mix between professional and amateur artists, to full professionals, from few headlines to that late 90's early 00's bombardment. That's not even mentioning zines.

>>98110650
Appendix A is basically how you can play D&D by yourself so I think to say sologaming is prime Gygaxian D&D

>>98114821
There is no such thing as "gygaxian".
It's a nebulous idea which is just an Appeal to Authority with no real basis.

>>98115079
Weird claim. Something is Gygaxian if its something that Gygax invented, recommended, explained in a certain way, thought about, spent time doing, etc. It's not a canon book with everything either being in or out of the book.
Things that are Gygaxian: Playing AD&D 1st edition as listed in the PHB and DMG. Bringing in ideas from his writings to any RPG. Running something the way he said he did on Dragonsfoot in 200X.
Things that aren't Gygaxian: Playing Super Mario Brothers. Pretty much all of Fourth edition D&D. Doing things that Gygax himself recommended against several times (for whatever reason, even if self-serving).

There's a huge ground of fuzziness in between these, but just because there's a spectrum between red and blue doesn't mean that there's no such thing as red or blue.

>>98114102
That's true, it's such a snapshot of the era. I have most of these from the 3e era, they were enjoyable reads

>>98115238
So, what's the plan when he says two mutually exclusive positive statements?

>>98115238
> if its something that Gygax invented, recommended, explained in a certain way, thought about, spent time doing, etc. It's not a canon book with everything either being in or out of the book.

For every Gygax quote. you can find a Gygax quote that says the opposite. It's impossible to create a coherent dogma without a thousand paradoxes if you actually adhere to what Gygax preached, because the man had no real integrity or understanding of RPGs and was constantly flip-flopping according to whatever he thought people wanted to hear at the time.

Anyone who professes to believe in Gygaxianism is a charlatan.

>>98115249
You pick that which you prefer, truly Gygaxian.

>>98115688
No clue what you mean by that or what it had to do with my post

>>98110650
why do you care? You don't need gary's ghost's approval to play games.

>>98115255
Both are Gygaxian.
>>98115257
>For every Gygax quote. you can find a Gygax quote that says the opposite

That's only true for some quotes. But for the many cases where it is true, then both would be Gygaxian.

This really isn't hard.

Gygaxian style isnt consistent or important. I don't see a need to argue over it, if someone what's to play what they call Gygaxian , then let em. Long as they and Thier table is having a good time, then good.

You don't have to like or agree with what someone else likes and frankly if you're not in the same game it doesn't matter

>>98110650
Appendix A is based on a Strategic Review article by Gygax called Solo Dungeon Adventures, so it is clear that solo gaming has the full Gygactic imprimatur – both the Gygax of the early years and the Gygax of the full bloom of D&D approved, as shown by his inclusion of this SR material in the DMG.

As for the Gygax haters in this thread and their feeble, impotent mewling, it just goes to show you that this "Open OSR" thread is in fact nothing more than a disingenuous, futile trolling attempt, devised to try to push their fallacious revisionist definition of the OSR.

>>98118463
>Thier

>>98118576
I assure you, my mewling is anything but impotent. We Gary were still with us, he'd be able to attest to this, what with the coke orgies we had back during the wild years in Los Angeles.

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>>98118463
In the grand universe of RPGs, it does become an interesting thought experiment of what the most "Authoritarian" RPG could possibly be, and I think that's essentially what "Gygaxian" is an effort to be.

It has little to do with the man himself. It really comes down to D&D being the first published RPG (and thus the one with the strongest appeal to the traditionalist-minded), and AD&D being the most authoritative incarnation of it. It's the only one that had a clear, central dictator at its helm, who wanted to present himself as the singular master authority in a world-wide system of uniform experiences produced by rigid adherence to a set of all-encompassing rules.

Gygax mellowed out pretty quickly, probably because he never managed to get a single tournament to run where even a dozen DMs guided by an executive council of higher judges didn't end up producing wildly different experiences thanks to thousands of compounding differences in opinions/interpretations. After AD&D, all his games were pretty loose, and Gygax spent a good amount of time on Dragonsfoot telling all the people begging him to act like a final authority for AD&D rulings that he was no more of an authority than any other DM.

Some people really just like Authoritarianism. I'm not going to pretend to understand why, only that these people exist and Authoritarianism has a weird way of popping up in the weirdest places.

>>98118919
perhaps FATAL is the one true Gygaxian OSR game.

>>98118919
Yeah, Gygax himself moved on and they hate that. It's not really about him but using him as an excuse for running a strict game. They are a bit random at times on what they except and reject.

>>98118857
Gary was all into C&C and pointing out how "Old school" it was. They bad mouth him for that, they would utterly hate him if he had lived longer

>>98119002
them running a strict game is fine, the problem is they want the entire OSR community to be that. you should be careful with your arguments against them.

>>98119018
Eh I don't give a fuck what flawed arguments they use. The OSR community is far larger than Thier small group

Actually on topic, I have been wanting to mess with hex maps again. It's kinda nostalgic, I still have my Mystara maps. Loved those things

>>98119148
There's a lot (and I mean A LOT) of really killer Mystara maps on Vault of Pandius, many of which are hex maps.
https://pandius.com/maps.html

Huge props to them, easily one of the most productive fan groups for a D&D setting. They really don't get enough notoriety from broader OSR circles.

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>>98119148
They're definitely an element I wish had been given a bit more love as the editions progressed.

I understand why overland hex crawling fell out of popularity (because it could often feel like a giant waste of time and could even be frustrating if luck or the DM were being particularly shitty that day), but when done right it can be one of the most enjoyable and liberating parts of the game.

>>98118919
>Gygax spent a good amount of time on Dragonsfoot telling all the people begging him to act like a final authority for AD&D rulings that he was no more of an authority than any other DMs
So basically the most Gygaxian way to play D&D is to disregard him, according to the man himself. Wonderful.

>>98119115
>Thier

>>98119279
every time

>>98118307
>Both are Gygaxian.
So what do you do when Ghgax argues with Gygax?

>>98119183
Thank ya for the link. I really appreciate it. I had the Champions of Mystara box and another one I can't recall the name of. I don't know they weren't 2e when I got em lol. Damn did t we use the ever loving fuck out of em though.

>>98119217
My intro to them was the FR boxed set, it had these plastic hex sheets you used over the standard maps. Then of course I found the Mystara maps and holy fuck do those things still call to me. Maybe it's from battletech which I played years before finding d&d, but man just something about a hex map That's fun.

>>98119283
You mean my autocorrect or his need to point it out every time? Not sure what is up with his need to repeat it, it's a bit OCD

>>98119311
his need to point it out. surely he knows its intentional by now.

>>98119319
It's not really intentional on my part. It's an auto correct thing and I just don't notice. No idea why it does it every time no matter where in the sentence it is, but it does. It's not the worse autocorrect issue or anything.

>>98119332
huh thats a little neat. is there a cache you can clear to fix it?

>>98119342
On most phones you can reset your autocorrect. I haven't done it on this one yet as it's not reached a point it bugs me enough. I misspelled can as csn so much on my last phone it started "correcting" the right spelling lol. I often type fast and my hands are not small, so stuff like that happens. But the random caps is a new one for me.

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>>98119288
Why would you need to do anything? "Gygaxian" is a spectrum. Some things are well within it. Many things are clearly outside of it. If a thing and its opposite are both within it, that's not a problem for classification.

>>98119373
Because consistency is a prerequisite for a worthwhile value system. Otherwise you open the margins for bad actors to use it as a justification to do what they like and still claim to being a good gygaxian, and that way madness lies.

Wanking Gygax is definitely Gygaxian.

>>98119408
>freedom as one of the things it would give people, after they submitted to them first.
But TTRPGs actually make the same promise, and deliver on it, so the comparison maybe doesn’t work so good here.

>>98119728
You need to stop coming to these threads and stay in your containment area

>>98119518
Not all TTRPGS give the same amount of freedom. Some try to even trap players in endless "loops."

>>98120552
Not quite the same, but one of my big hates of the 3.x games was the built in "trap" options. What terrible game design that was.

>>98121184
That's a bit of a myth that Cook built up to try and sell his friends "D&D for Dummies" book.

In reality, while it is true that some options were made weaker than others, that's something that is really just a part of game design. It's impossible to make two mechanically distinct options perfectly balanced in all circumstances, and the challenge of design is figuring out how to get things relatively close and then figure out whether and where to err towards it being stronger or weaker.

Tome and Blood actually explained this in its advice on how to make new spells. The process they went about was establishing various capstone spells for each level, like Invisibility for level 2 or Fireball for level 3, as iconic spells that they wanted players to frequently choose because they helped establish the overall tone and feel of the game. Any new spell would be measured against these capstones, and if a spell was gauged to be stronger than Invisibility but weaker than Fireball, it would be put as a level 3 spell. In a tightly controlled game with players limited in what they could do, it may make sense to have tried to further refine the options to get them as close to being as balanced as possible, but we're talking about a game where Fireball seems like the strongest 3rd level spell up until your DM keeps throwing fire resistant enemies down (with fire being the most resisted element so that could just be a case of bad luck).

There's lot of reasons why designers could want to discourage players and err on making some options weaker than others. The most obvious (and one even Cook points at) is the Toughness feat, which is an incredibly boring, passive feat that doesn't lead to any interesting interactions, and largely only exists because the absence of a feat that added HP would be noticed.

>>98121871
It was made deliberately weak to discourage people from selecting it, but they went a bit too far in that direction and it ended up getting a bit of a face lift with Improved Toughness later on and also found a niche as being a good prerequisite for feats that would otherwise be a bit too strong by themselves (under the foggy logic that a .5 feat + 1.5 feat would equal 2 regular feats). It was a design mistake making it even weaker than they probably should have, but wanting to make it weaker (in most circumstances) was not in order to trick new players.

The "trap option" myth was just Cook pretending that there was any reason to buy his friend's book when there wasn't one. He spun up a bit on how the game had an Ivory Tower policy, where it doesn't explain why the designers made the decisions they did or provide advice on what options may be better for certain characters, when that couldn't be further from the truth. The X and Y books were filled with player and design advice, the Wizard's website and Dragon Magazine had no shortage of designers laying out their entire thought processes behind every little decision, and there were even "Behind the Screen" blurbs right in the books themselves that helped DM's understand why things were the way they were. It wasn't to create "trap options" in order to reward "system mastery," but because there are certain design decisions that actually trump seeking perfect balance.

A game where all options are equal in all circumstances actually eliminates any feeling of meaningful decision making, and all options might as well be mechanically identical with different fluff at that point. When a game goes too far in prioritizing balance in all situations, you end up with a very boring game where changes in circumstances are rendered meaningless.

>>98118919
wasn't ADND made specifically for tournament play. I can see why he'd say that. I'm pretty sure this is just him saying that rules are fleshed out fully in ADND for a reason, he's not saying "you can't deviate from this in anyway".

Honestly though, this just looks like some "gotcha" shit for people that want to shit on anything true OSR.

>>98122185
there are some things that make consistent ADND 1e play impossible anon. as this article points out there are inconsistencies between the core books, so there will always be some differences from table to table. and we don't hate osr we just don't think the /osrg/ has legitimate reasons for excluding 2e.

https://rancourt.substack.com/p/ad-and-d-1e-headscratchers

>>98122293
>and we don't hate osr we just don't think the /osrg/ has legitimate reasons for excluding 2e.

Ah there it is.

>>98121871
If you are putting fears and spells you know are weak in, the. You are making trap options. You can't make everything totally even but you can fit them within a set range.

If toughness is weak, bump the damned thing until it hits the range you set for feats. The same is true with spells, point how common resistance is into your accounting for if something fits at the level you have it.

>>98122313
NTA but there is no logical reason 2e shouldn't be in the osrg. It's is an OSR game and always has been counted as such. It's a very silly line in the sand they have selected.

I have no interest in fighting a flame war to put it there, but it is a silly and rather arbitrary limit they chose

>>98122185
NTA, but 2e was mostly just house rules everyone used for 1e anyhow. People didn't actually play 1e the way some of these guys think they did.

The whole Gygaxian thing is like neo paganism. It's a recreation of a thing, but often though rose tinted glasses. It's not the same thing, but the idea of what they thing was.

>>98122761
Go back to the other thread, I am not gonna argue over well established facts

>>98122625
>If toughness is weak, bump the damned thing until it hits the range you set for feats.

Let's try out a thought experiment.
Toughness gives either +9 HP, +6 HP, or +3 HP.

At +9, it's stupidly strong for a low level character, and could give a wizard more HP than a barbarian. It's a feat that would be incredibly popular to take at first level, would be almost certainly useful in every dungeon, and would probably even be good enough to let characters use constitution as a dump stat.

But then you'd be stuck with a passive feat that doesn't do anything particularly exciting and would be dead weight beyond 6th level or so. Because of the size of the bonus and how it's just a flat boost, it's much too strong for low-level characters, yet weakens as the character progresses, punishing players for taking an option the game encouraged them to take.

At +6, it's more reasonable. Less a must-have, but it's still got the same issues as the character levels up. In hindsight, +6ish probably would have been where they would have been aiming for a flat bonus that they wanted to encourage people to take, but that introduces the problem of players actually having to weigh taking Toughness over more exciting feats, and being punished in the long term.

At +3HP, most people will instantly skip over it, and it's only value comes in freaky builds or allowing the answer to "What would a feat that just gives HP be like?" to simply be "Don't bother, pick something more exciting." That's not a bad outcome.

Ultimately, the original +3HP was deemed way too low in hindsight even for freaky builds, and they ended up fixing that and its growing uselessness as the character progressed with Improved Toughness which gave +1 HP per level. Pathfinder even took it a step further by combining the two into the same feat, and while that would have been pretty tempting to the minds of people back in 2000, it's a pretty weak feat according to modern understanding of the game's mechanics.

>>98122761
>>98122792
you still have to back up your own claims here if you want your opinions to be respected.

>>98122814
Ignore the troll. Let him understand how things work on 4chan.

>>98122801
Just go +3 or 4+ a number pre level. It's not hard, you don't give it all up front.

>>98122824
They are actually starting to purn them. I am a bit shocked honestly

What's the standard price for an inn? Or general living costs? Couldn't find anything like that in the Rules Cyclopedia.

File: converting to solo.png (161.3 KB)

anon who was planning to play some pre-written adventures solo here
so I didn't get much free time I hoped I would due to life happening
but I'm still thinking if it's doable to run pre-written adventures solo if I tinker with them
this is my experiment, a small adventure from BFRPG's AA3. When you try something with an object you check out the comment to make a judgement if that would work, or get additional information, or whatever.

It's kinda a lot of work, I'm not satisfied with how Writer leaves these yellow comment icons when exporting a PDF, and most importantly you are reading the adventure pretty thoroughly in advance while you are at it, but maybe I will forget it in a week or two.

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>>98123081
If you mean cost, the 2e PHB lists some of that. I have it handy so will use that.

Stay per night/week
Common in. 5sp/3 gp
Poor inn 5cp/ 2 sp

>>98123143
NTA, but pre written stuff solo seems like it would be a pain in the ass. The way you did it is an interesting work around though

>>98123143
Wait are you
>reading the module but trying not to read too much
>put read but only kinda into notes you will open later
>playing through the module and reading for real this time
?

>Fishfag gets El Bandolino for trying to hijack /osrg/ again
>this thread goes dead quiet
waow what a crazy coincidence

>>98123505
What I'm doing is
- take an adventure from bfrpg adventure anthology 3 as a source odt file
- read through it while editing things meant strictly for GM out into some sort of hidden text
- initially I thought making the font blend in with background until it is selected, but it seems to be a pdf-reader specific thing, so instead I went with comments
- export as PDF
- next you need to wait a bit
- then after a while hopefully you will forget most of the specifics when you solo-play through the adventure

yeah basically that's the idea
ofc you will still have to rely on oracles and self-constraint, but will save at least some sort of surprise for yourself

I'm thinking of comparing this experience with simply soloplaying through some other short AA3 adventure to see if it's worth the effort, at this point I'm not sure it is, but hey at least it can be a fun novelty

>>98124875
>>thinking of comparing this experience with simply soloplaying through some other short AA3 adventure to see if it's worth the effort, at this point I'm not sure it is, but hey at least it can be a fun novelty

NTA, bit I do a lot of stuff just because my hyper focus is really into it lol. Sounds like a ton of work but could be interesting. There are a ton of adventures that could be converted to more solo friendly.

>>98124981
I would say it's _a ton_ of work
pretty much on par with usual prep, read through, take notes
once you know what you are doing there is some overhead but it's just that, some overhead
to be c honest these AA3 bfrpg adventures are nowhere near the level you can just start running them without reading the entire thing beforehand anyway IMHO but I don't think anyone will disagree

>>98125025
My brain sees it as a ton of work. Yeah you gotta read em, but you are editing not just reading. YMMV, but editing can be a lot of work. It's like 4 to 6 new steps for every section you hide. Don't downplay your work here, it's a bit more than you think it is.

Honestly a team effort to convert a bunch of these would be cool. The good thing about OSR is you have so much stuff to pull from.

>>98124875
This seems like a lot of work for something that doesn't work well at all. Far more than usual prep and involves a background self deception that is a bit fucked.

>>98125080
>Honestly a team effort to convert a bunch of these would be cool
certainly
I'm thinking of sharing mine when I'm done

>>98125134
>something that doesn't work well at all
maybe
we'll have a chance to check it out once I'm done

>>98122635
>no logical reason 2e shouldn't be in the osrg
Heres some logic for you:
>OP of thread determines topic
>OP of /osrg/ says 2e is off-topic
THEREFORE: ...?

>>98122767
>well established
>facts
lol

>>98123081
t feckless nogames moron

>>98126304
therefore we disagree with the op.

>>98126390
Illogical behavior.

>>98126396
you seem to have failed to consider an op can incorrectly define a topic. In this case it has what I feel to be an irrational exclusion clause.

>>98126304
That is circular reasoning, so by definition is a logical fallacy and not logical

>>98126416
We all know that multiple people tried to bring back the original OP, the mods took a side, now the brosr trolls got what they wanted and they can’t stand it.

>>98126416
I mean it's a religious topic at this point. Sure, 2e is OSR. But that particular thread excludes 2e. Here's an OSR thread RIGHT HERE That doesn't. Just report the random trolls who come here and the mods will ban them, and waste time with offtopic arguments like "that particular thread should have to use my preferred definition". It doesn't seem like it has to! Stay here and discuss OSR, which includes 2e, and just stop being mad about them existing.

>>98126416
>can incorrectly define a topic
LOGIC ERROR
The topic is self-defined by the OP

>>98126762
>2e is OSR
Not really, no

>>98123081
>Inn

How much does a cloak and two sticks cost?

>>98126934
as pointed out by >>98126428, this is circular reasoning your using, and therefore illogical.

>>98127083
can you backup your claim this time?

>>98127219
don't encourage him

You can tell when some folk's bans are up. Just ignore the off topic trolling about what is and is not OSR

Now something on topic.
I have been enjoying the strong S&S vibe swords and Wizardry is putting off. It's made me go down a nostalgic rabbit hole on S&S art and books I have not read in 20+years.

Working on class changes has got me tinkering with a setting and I want to go more S&S. I don't wanna use just humans for ancestries, but I don't wanna go "classic" with demi humans. I wanna keep that S&S feel.

I am thinking, serpent men, apemen, lizard men, maybe some golaith like "giant" and some Stygian near human species.

Any suggestions?

>>98127127
NTA but what does that have to do with the question. It's weird but it seems they didn't include inn costs until 2e. I personally never noticed that because I started playing with 2e

>>98127574
>I started playing with 2e
That goes without saying, there's pretty much no reason to like 2e besides nostalgia.

>>98127320
>>98127601
are you people still pissed gary got kicked out of tsr?

>>98127601
2e cleaned stuff up from 1e, it also added options and a working bard. It's cool not to like it, but 2e is a far better polished system than 1e.

Case in point here, it added stuff that honestly should have long been part of d&d. How much is an inn? How much do meals cost and so on. Even if you only wanna dungeon delve, that's still kinda important unless your game just ignores the world outside of dungeons

>>98127666
>2e is a polished turn
Yeah, that pretty much sums it up.

>>98127690
The fact you fucked up that trolling is funny as hell. I get it autocorrect is a bitch lol

>>98127637
The funny thing is, these guys were likely not even born in that era. They give the vibe of die hard converts

>>98127574
What kind of fancy la-dee-da princess stays at an Inn when all you need for a good night's rest is a cloak held over your head, propped up with two sticks?

>>98127785
I feel like this sounds like a bad romantic comedy. On second thought I would totally watch a fantasy based romantic comedy

>>98127690
lol

>>98127826
It's funny because it's true.

>>98127690
>>98127930
given that its derived from 1e does that mean 1e is a turd?

>>98127980
Logically that is what they are saying. 1e and 2e are the same system. 2e is a polished up 1e.

>>98127980
No, 1e is the good meal, 2e is the turd made out of its components

>>98128111
Sure you didn't, the three days of no trolling was just a coincidence. Anyhow on topic, what is your thought on races for S&S games?

>>98128129
oh no you don't get to worm your way out of this. you made a mistake and essentially said >>98127980. just accept your fuckup.

>>98128025
>1e and 2e are the same system
lol
lmao, even

>>98128741
Eh I am board so why not.

Are you making the cliam 1e characters, mods and items can not be used with 2e or 2e with 1e without at lest the same level of conversion required for BX?

>>98129448
>I am board
>cliam
>at lest

>>98127803
.. The Princess Bride?

>>98129583
I mean yeah, it's a classic. But it lacks dragons and a half orc love interest

>>98129505
Yes, and?

File: 1741564923670156.jpg (216.1 KB)

>>98121184
I don't think it's true. I don't think 3.X was made with any trap options. I think that they just made some bad feats.
The source for all this was Monte Cook. The blog post is still up on archive:
https://web.archive.org/web/20080221174425/http://www.montecook.com/cgi-bin/page.cgi?mc_los_142

>>98121871
>That's a bit of a myth that Cook built up to try and sell his friends "D&D for Dummies" book.

I agree. The claim is extraordinary. "We were being retarded on purpose otherwise we'd have nailed that game balance perfectly" I mean I doubt it.

A feat like Toughness obviously had the (bad) design of delivering a constant amount of hit points. Instead of just trashing this and making it scale by level (like Pathfinder and WotC eventually did), a feat that at least compares favorably to core feats, they actually *picked a number*. Does anyone really believe that it was there for an elf wizard at a convention one-shot?

There's another argument- that the feat was there to squat on the mechanics. "A DM will naturally homebrew a feat that adds hitpoints, lets make sure that isn't viable." If that was your goal, you wouldn't have it deliver constant hit points, you'd have tried to price it at something that some players would take.

>>98122625
Exactly. This is what every player and DM actually wants them to do. It's much easier to play the game as written if everything is at a similar power level. It's also much easier to add home brew in that case as well.

>>98122801
The one-hit-point-per-hit-die feat compares just fine to a lot of the other feats in the core 3.0, Pathfinder 1e, and 3.5 books. The only reason it fell off as these editions advanced is because the sheer number of feats increased. Even if the newer feats didn't power creep (and they did somewhat), the mere fact that there was almost guaranteed to be a feat or even a feat chain that was perfect for whatever you were doing almost entirely robbed the budget from general feats.

>>98128139
>the three days of no trolling was just a coincidence
Literally yes, unlike you I have other shit to do with my time than post on /tg/ (plus I'm pretty sure it wasn't exactly three days).

I'm saving my views of races in S&S for a non-troll thread where people don't use Reddit terms like "ancestries", kek.

>>98129505
Lmao, illiterate hog. Typical 2etard.

It's just been one troll this entire time?
Geez, he really needs a life.

>>98130144
Christ, I had missed the "ancestries" bullshit. Revolting.

>>98127637
I think you need to be a very special kind of idiot to have failed in the way Gary did.

Losing the D&D brand when all he had to do is not fuck anything up is pretty funny, but not as funny as him also losing the rights to his own D&D characters.

>>98129741
>>I don't think it's true. I don't think 3.X was made with any trap options. I think that

If they knew they were bad and choose to leave them, then yeah they made trap options. 3.5 was the time to fix that stuff not ignore it and make it worse.

>>Exactly. This is what every player and DM actually wants them to do. It's much easier to play the game as written if everything is at a similar power level. It's also much easier to add home brew in that case as well.

I'll never understand why they don't do this. It's not hard, you just need a spread shit and a willingness to rank and tinker with them. Folks do it at home all the time

>>98130144
Sure buddy, sure.

And it's nice to admired you just troll this thread and refuse to engage in any gaming topic.

>>98130253
Like it or not, the term race is being phased out of gaming, even in OSR circles. What does it matter if it's called ancestries or not?

>>98130778
where is it being phased out?

>>98130788
Pretty much across the RPG industry. Even D&D dropped it with 5.5. Swords and Wizardry uses the term ancestry, as does OSRIC. You are gonna see that more and more

>>98130788
plebbit and rpgnet
and now 4chan, of all places

>>98130809
well im surprised by swords and wizardry and osric. and wotc dnd is doing it for woke points. so i must assume and be saddened, by the fact the other two have probably fallen to culture war shit.

>>98130920
No culture war, just culture shifting man. It's been happening for near a decade at this point. Us guys that grew up on S&S stuff just sent the target any more.

Culture just shifts, it's a minior thing all in all.

>>98130938
no its because "race" is seen as an offensive term by people who are hostile to us. leave this place your kind are not welcome here.

>>98130950
Ah you are a racist upset with the idea of racist ideology being looked down upon huh.

Not sure why that is your hill to die on but use race if ya want, no one is stopping you. Gaming will slowly phase it out all the same.

>>98131037
go back to /pol/

>>98130938
>minior
Ah, you're the one who admitted he's arrived on 4chan last February from RPGnet. It figures.

>>98131057
I wasn't the one that made this political. I pointed out it was a simple culture drift, the other guy yelled "woke" and "culture war".

It's not a big issue, use whatever term you like but when the biggest name in TTRPGs changes it, the writing is on the wall.

>>98130950
More importantly, "race" is a term that was used historically in Europe for centuries for elves, fairies, and other creatures of myth. "Ancestry" is just wrong, it means and has always meant something entirely different.

As a European, I refuse to participate in performative crap to appease ideologically captured and psychological damaged Americans. I'll keep calling elves and dwarves races, and point and laugh at retards who feel offended by it.

>leave this place your kind are not welcome here.
Add it to the long list of reasons.

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>>98131317
>the writing is on the wall.
indeed

You guys are awful butthurt over a thing other people are doing as they are not asking, much less making you do the thing.

>>98131724
>They're not making you do the thing
If it doesn't matter enough for us to be irritated by, then surely it doesn't matter enough for (you) to change it in the first place, you worthless waste of sock stiffener?

>>98131926
once more, no one is making you change it. But companies are changing it because it's a smart business move. It appeals to a wider audience by changing race to something else. You guys are not thinking in terms of modern players and modern audiences.

It's not even based on RL racial stuff or "woke", it's just an antiquated term that does not land with the modern gamers. That's why they are changing dude, money.

Once more, you can use race, you can use species or ancestry or heritage. Whatever floats your boat.

>>98130778
No, it's not "being phased out" (passive voice, implies some authority).
Certain cucked companies have switched over. This won't make them a penny more and they know it, but they don't want there to be any backlash, so they comply.

"Ancestries" over "Race" is a red flag to anyone paying attention.

>>98130809
Just don't give your money to any of those pussies, and refuse to use their gay terminology.

>>98130938
It's not a culture shift. There's a war against our culture, and that's all it is. It's not inevitable, and you should never stop fighting these fucks. Anyone trying to normalize it is trash. It's not normal. It's never gonna be normal.

>>98131037
Again with the passive voice. "Gaming" isn't gonna do shit. Just some cucked companies with their activists (like you) trying to suck their cocks. You should stop posting.

>>98131057
Go back to bluesky.

>>98131317
Defending a political thing (and companies trying to do a fake-assed top-down change that the community didn't choose) is politics.

>>98131590
Correct.

>>98131946
No, it's a dumb business move, but they don't want to face organized attacks from political activists. Everyone who prints "ancestry" instead of "race" loses a few bucks, but they perceive it to be the path of least resistance because of disgusting activists.