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Showing all 416 replies.
>>
So to deal with the four weapon skills issue that Dawns have, I did the following skill swaps among the castes.
>Alternate Dawn: Melee, Archery, Athletics, Resistance, War
>Zenith: Martial Arts, Presence, Performance, Integrity, Survival
>Night: Thrown, Dodge, Stealth, Awareness, Larceny
So now Dawns are physically oriented. As for the other roles, I didn’t have much deep reasoning. Zenith are fist fighting priests, Nights are projectile throwing ninjas.
>>
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>>98153604
There's no combat in my game so I don't have a favorite combat charm
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>>98153604
God, I hate 3e's Jade; they made her ugly on purpose.
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>>98153730
Are you playing 2e? Have you checked out the Dawn keyword?
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>>98153738
Yeah I just found out about the “dawn solution”.
I can find all that under the ink monkey book in the 2e resources page right?
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>>98153604
I made a homebrew of Lunars whose main theme is caste shifts based on the moon phases. So each Lunar becomes a Full Moon, then a Changing Moon, and then a No Moon and the cycle repeats. You’d create a Lunar character the following way:

choose a primary attribute from each type (physical, social, mental), do same for secondary, and tertiary attributes
ie you’d first choose one of Strength, Dexterity, Stamina, then one of Charisma, Manipulation, or Appearance, and last one of Perception, Intelligence, or Wits
spend 8, 6, 4 points on primary attributes, secondary, etc
So an example attribute spread would be: (Stamina 4, Appearance 4, Intelligence 3), (Strength 3, Charisma 3, Perception 3), (Dexterity 2, Manipulation 2, Wits 3)

Choose 4 abilities for each caste
Each caste has 8 abilities:
Full Moon – Melee, Thrown, Athletics, Resistance, Stealth, Dodge, War, Ride
Changing Moon – Presence, Performance, Socialize, Linguistics, Larceny, Integrity, Awareness, Bureaucracy
No Moon – Occult, Investigation, Craft, Lore, Medicine, Survival, Sail, Archery
Martial Arts is special because it counts as an ability for ANY caste, but can only be picked once

If Silver Pact, get 32 points for skills, but must have at least Martial Arts 2, Stealth 2, Survival 2
If Silver Pact, get 9 points but must take mentor 3

All “normal” charms are skill-based
Lunars have no skill-based excellency charms, instead have excellencies for each attribute in phase
You choose a starting caste, then you can only choose excellencies for attributes of the current caste (ie if you’re starting as a full moon, you can only have strength/dexterity/stamina excellencies)
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>>98153988
So now to describe how the phase change works
Based on the moon’s phases (approximately every 10 days), Lunar’s caste will change. By default Lunar Castes correspond to current phase of the moon, but not necessarily.
The Lunar caste cycle always goes full moon changing moon no moon changing moon full moon like the moon itself
When phase changed, all lunar excellencies change to new excellencies based on the new caste’s attributes.
By default, the new excellencies obtained are random (ie strength essence overwhelming can become manipulation essence resurgent)
However, Lunars know several rites they can use to control which excellencies they get when phase changing, which have to be performed around the time of the phase change.

Lunars also have a unique excellency, called essence (attribute) overlapping, which allows a lunar to replace an attribute for a roll with said attribute

Lunars gain limit when they stick to something for too long, or try to fix their caste and ignore the phase change (latter is considered a slight to Luna and nets A LOT of limit). In my view Lunar limit is like an alarm telling you it’s time to move on.
There’s no fixed rule to how limit is gained. Maybe it’s possible to be a god king sitting on his throne for several centuries as long as your life doesn’t become too monotonous, or maybe you need to return to the murderhobo life after a week to stave off gaining limit.
Lunar limit breaks cause caste to change immediately. Excellency changes from limit breaks are always random. Lunar limit breaks also causes at least one change in intimacy.

Luna chooses those who undergo significant change in their lives but still manage to succeed.
>Career soldier becomes a government official and manages to restore the kingdom’s economy.
>Traveling artist successfully commands a town against an invasion.
>Caveman induces his cannibal tribe to give up eating people and learn the fine arts.
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>>98153988
Stealth is more a changing moon thing, they are the shape-shifting rogue.
And socialize makes more sense for social caste no moons
>>
Now that I think about it, it is funny how no moons are actually the 3 castes in one, instead of the changing moons.
Changing = Night, Full = Dawn and No = Twilight, Zenith and Eclipse.
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>>98154128
Well, No Moons are just Twilights, but with the gimmick of being Priests like Zeniths. Changing Moons get infiltration (night), leadership (zenith), and diplomancy (eclipse).
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>>98154139
They are also the keepers of lore and the ones who introduce new Lunars to the silver pact.

>leadership (zenith), and diplomancy (eclipse).
The leadership is more "war" like, with their raid parties.
And I don't remember them being diplomatic in their 1e writer up, No Moons felt more diplomatic because they oversaw the social rites.
But lunar castes are counter intuitive in general
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>>98154087
Huh. I always thought No Moons were the sorcerers, what with getting all the mental attributes.
>>98154128
That actually ties into lore, because there were 5 original Lunar castes that all got mashed up into the current 3.
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>>98154225
No Moons are shamans, a more social form of magic user.
The 1e lunar castes are weird, despite being divided by the social/mental/physical attributes, they are actually shapeshifter/shaman/berserk.
Changing Moons being the animalistic shape-shifting caste, made them the most lunar lunars around, it was even talked about in some 1e era rpgnet thread.
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>>98153604
>>98123472
this kind anon
>>98084750
>>98145489
has provided the first part of the essence stg draft
here's the links for when the thread expires
https://www.mediafire.com/file/5tq29yoeeskvv5v/ExEss+STG+Draft+Part+1.pdf/file
https://www.mediafire.com/file/ml5ilvxzr05tiy3/ExEss+STG+Draft+Part+2A.pdf/file
https://www.mediafire.com/file/6ps6so72omgrp19/ExEss+STG+Draft+Part+2B.pdf/file
>>
>>98154987
Thanks for everything.
>>
Turning the Tyranids into Wyld Invasions.
>Hive Fleet Behemoth: Came smashing itno Creation form one of the corners and then got obliterated by Conky
>Hive Fleet Kraken: Staged multiple splinter invasions across the entire Border of Creation because "He can't shoot all of us at o-"
>Hive Fleet Leviathan: "Okay, how the fuck did they figure this out?" -Conky when he realizes what the Fair Folk are trying.
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What's the criteria for determining if something is a "regular" weird creature from Creation, an Elemental, or a Raksha? Hipogriffs are mundane creatures but unicorns are fae? Make it make sense.
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>>98156586
The first step is to realize that there's no structure.
But unicorns are tied to the middle ages and fairytales.
Hypogriffs are half griphons, and those came from antiquity.
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>>98156586
>What's the criteria for determining if something is a "regular" weird creature from Creation, an Elemental, or a Raksha?
It's basically just where they came from.

Weird creatures came from mutations and biological processes and interbreeding with whatever else, but they're fundamentally just animals with strange traits and generally have all of the traits an animal has like needing to eat and breathe and shit and sleep.

Elementals form from elemental energies. They are spirits that default to material. They do not need to do normal animal things by default, but often can.

Something is a raksha or a wyld creature if it formed from the processes of the Wyld. Two normal animals breed in the wyld and the child is mutated? That's a normal animal with a mutation. Faerie prince shapes up a mammoth? That's a wyld mammoth and is not a normal animal or even a "regular" weird animal. It probably doesn't need to eat or shit and is unlikely to ever get old unless someone tries to starve it or grow old with it.

There are, however, generally no key traits beyond spiritual makeup (which take special techniques to analyze) that you can point at and go 'this is in this category'. Any of the identifying traits I mentioned above could be replicated by any of the others, through interbreeding or whatever else. You usually need to actually recognize the kind of creature it is and go, "Oh, okay, this is a manticore, which is a kind of commoner raksha used as a brute," or "I see a person carved of wood and the language they're talking and the type of community they've built and I've identified that this is an artisan, a kind of wood elemental - and that this is not, in fact, the workshop of the mask-carving raksha prince we were looking for despite looking very much alike to what you would think that would look like, soulless humans included." Identifying creatures is a job for Lore and Occult and Investigation and isn't exactly easy low-skilled work a lot of the time.
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Rate Deathlord butt.
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>>98156675
I'm talking about the out of universe logic for it. When you're statting up some creature, how do you decide whether it should be a "mundane" Creation-born beast, a Raksha, an Elemental or whatever?
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>>98156586
>What's the criteria for determining if something is a "regular" weird creature from Creation, an Elemental, or a Raksha?
The rules for building them and that's it.
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I'd like to think that the Lunar killed Kraik and then impersonated him to gain control of Valkhawsen.
And the Lunar actually is secretly letting other Lunars into the academy to learn sorcery.
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>>98156743
>When you're statting up some creature, how do you decide whether it should be a "mundane" Creation-born beast, a Raksha, an Elemental or whatever?
You do whatever you like to fit the tone of the game. It's completely divorced from any in-character criteria and is much more based on how you think the players at your table will react.

As an example, I have two tables. One of them was introduced to Exalted by Keys of Creation and 2e, and the other was introduced to the game by reading the Essence book and never went earlier than 3e. The former table considers raksha the devil, absolute monsters and the most vile and untrustworthy critters in the setting. The latter table barely even knows what they are and generally considers them the same tier of threat as Godblood and enlightened mortals so long as you aren't walking into the Deep Wyld. If I want to write a big monster that's worth hunting for it's valuable exotic ingredient bones and can be expected to be canny but, like, optional, and not an absolute necessity to turn the direction of the campaign around to go kill the fucker, I would use a mundane/mutant animal for the former group and a fae beast for the latter group. If I used a fae beast for the former group, they would feel like their characters should be morally compelled to destroy the beast even if it was just, like, a cup-based cat thing that fed on happiness by cuddling people.

Do what you think will make your players react the way you want them to. Your players will have preconceptions, so use them. If your players hear Behemoth and think Shadow of the Collosus then don't tell them there's a behemoth when you're about to bring out chill guy Clay Man.
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>>98156743
Originally, the Raksha were going to be based on the European middle ages, to show how alien they are to the asiatic and """bronze age""" creation.
Because of this unicorns and gargoyles are tied to them.
There isn't really a rule of thumb to determine what is an elemental, terrestrial god or weird beast.
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>>98156828
>You do whatever you like to fit the tone of the game. It's completely divorced from any in-character criteria and is much more based on how you think the players at your table will react.
Yes, I know. I understand. I get the concept. I gathered as much while combing through the books. But you know what? It would've been real nice to have some basic guidelines.
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>>98156872
Having guidelines is antithesis to white wolf, specially for exalted.
The awakening 2e dev even joked about it when he frequented WoD general here.
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>>98156872
Even if there were guidelines - and there are definitely a lot of things it would be nice to have guidelines for - it'd still be the case that there's overlap in what kinds of creatures different influences can birth, and it'd still be the case that a weird, freaky animal-thing could be a Wyld beast, just an odd and unusual Creation-born animal, some Exalt's or sorcerer's experience, a god-blooded (or demon-blooded, or elemental blooded etc.) beast, a materialized spirit, or something still different.
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>>98156872
>It would've been real nice to have some basic guidelines.
The developers can't make guidelines tailored for your table in particular. They don't know you or your friends. Making guidelines for questions like 'what kind of monster do I use' at the level of the game is just being wrong for more people at once.
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>>98156902
>>98156910
I know, it's still annoying as hell.

>>98156938
Right over your head, it went.
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>>98156938
This dude did a better st guide than all of crucible of legends >>98156828
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>>98157011
I am that dude and basically said 'do as thou wilt'. That's not a guideline, that's permission he didn't need.
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>>98157026
This doesn't change the fact it was a better guideline than CoL
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What would be considered a difficulty 1, 3 and 5 Medicine roll? What would be something that's impossible for non-exalts to achieve?
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>>98157580
>What would be considered a difficulty 1, 3 and 5 Medicine roll?
Different diseases.
>What would be something that's impossible for non-exalts to achieve?
Heal non-disease injuries.
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>>98157585
>Heal non-disease injuries.
So with nothing but excellencies, its is possible to heal wonds?
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>>98156735
Huh I hadn't realized but this image kind of conforms they shared the same exaltation.
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>>98157738
I always thought Arianna's past life was the Dowager.
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>>98157738
The covers hammered the point quite handily.
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>>98157580
Rule of thumb think about how many die you would need to have a good chance of success.
Difficulty 1 needs around 3 die to pass. So like Medicine 1 and Intelligence 2, or Intelligence 5. So basically you need to wrap some bandages.
Difficulty 3 needs around 7 die to pass. So you need medicine 3/4 and intelligence 3/4. So 3 would be something that requires someone with a good medical background like treating someone who's been poisoned.
Difficulty 5 needs around 11 die. So you need medicine 5 or intelligence 5 plus some kind of excellency to succeed. Basically something borderline impossible for normal people like a surgical operation to remove some wyld parasite.
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>>98157877
Also for how I estimated the number of die, 7+ counts as success, so the number of die for a good shot at success would be slightly more than double the difficulty rating.
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>>98157602
>So with nothing but excellencies, its is possible to heal wonds?
you can use the medicine rules but those only speed up normal healing and most people don't bother with the complications like infections.
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>>98157902
>those only speed up normal healing
no they don't
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>>98157908
shut up and let me lie to people. I think I am mixing the medicine rules from other WW game lines
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>highest Medicine Twilight iconics have is 2
por que
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>>98158131
Medicine isn't nearly as impressive as Lor or Occult.
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>>98158131
Because that's what unlocks the charms they want.
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>>98158131
Also, Swordsman II is ass
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>>98158131
no one uses diseases in their games so medicine doesn't do anything
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>>98158131
There was a push for Twilight = sorcerers since 1e, and the sample characters have limited dot pools.
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Being a Twilight / No Moon who can't use sorcery at chargen is like being a midget without extendable grabbers
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>>98158131
Ironically one of Horakinis motivations for learning sorcery was half her family dying in a plague... and she has medicine 2.
The real surprise is Iay Selak because he was the village shaman pre-exaltation.
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>>98156735
3.5/5, cute little tush for that frame and mogs any butt in 3e
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>>98157738
>>98157792
I disagree.
The Lover in life was such a hedonist she burned all her emotion and didn't bother resisting the Usurpation.
Bright Shattered Ice was a humorless workaholic whose actual flaw was obsessively finding information.
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>>98158576
Don't forget, she was also so much of a sadist, even DESUS was taken aback by some of her antics
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>>98158500
>The real surprise is Iay Selak because he was the village shaman pre-exaltation.
It is because medice isn't tied to the supernatural, like irl medicine-men and shamans are.
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Why are Twilights so inclined to do retarded apocalyptic shit?
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>>98158727
Wizards don't have a sense of right or wrong, and somecaster had to actually threat the existence of Creation during the 1st age, otherwise players would take notice of the blind prophets curse.
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>>98158727
>Why are Twilights so inclined to do retarded apocalyptic shit?
Because no one in Exalted thinks about if they should do a thing. They just do it and see if anyone can be bothered to call them out.
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File: swan_and_aria.png (1.0 MB)
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One canonical case of limit break I could find.
Also, Swan and Aria are the only siblings, only relatives really who are both celestial exalted.
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So what's the best way to play a acharacter that uses multiple artefacts? Solar Thousand Blade Stylist, with Infernal as a close second?
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Are there any list of what the canon Neverborn and what they were before being killed? I just foundout about the Primordial Principle Emulation and how there could be a Abyssal mirror for that.
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>>98159076
Disconnect gambit to break the attunement and weigh them down
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>>98155136
i didn't make the drop, just linked them. though i'm sure he appreciates it
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>>98159173
Except that there's one that was killed by MRL, nope
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>>98157602
It is possible to stabilize wounds so that they can heal and the person not die with pure dice, yers. Medicine can sometimes interface with things like thaumaturgy and artifice use as well, which could have a direct effect on how quickly a person heals health levels.
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>>98159076
2e Sidereal with their Craft capstone churning out stuff without having to care about the process. Use your panoply as a way to get out of fate restrictions similar to how most Sidereals use Martial Arts / Sorcery. You usually end up wanting to take the Devonian Absorption for fast attunes so that you can swap stuff in/out quickly too, and an IRA to keep a bunch of tools on you to swap to.
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Thunderbolt Fantasy is still peak Exalted
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>>98160603
>another Craft chad setting
TRUE
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>>98160610
It has a diametrically opposite view about artifacts.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=4L7FhBjSh6o&pp=ygUgVGh1bmRlcmJvbHQgZmFudGFzeSB2cyBkZW1vbiBnb2Q%3D
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>>98160641
Fukan just says not to make sword worship your entire personality, they're just tools. But the state of the world still hinges almost entirely on them.
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>>98159917
Huh, that's weird but not entirely unexpected.
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>>98160644
Which is the opposite of 3e's evocation paradigm.
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>>98159173
>I just foundout about the Primordial Principle Emulation and how there could be a Abyssal mirror for that.
The Abyssal mirror would also grab Primordial charms.
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>>98160785
Only Ted's, or create mirror versions of the othe yozis.
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>>98160789
Why? Most mirrors do exactly the same thing. Mirror Primordials don't exist, and the Ebon Dragon doesn't have any clear spiritual affiliation with Abyssals/Oblivion that would make his charms uniquely appropriate to them. TED wasn't involved in Exalting them.

I think Abyssals would be able to develop a charm that let them take Neverborn charms if Neverborn charms existed, but my understanding is that they don't. I do not think such a charm would be a mirror of Primordial Emulation Principle, it would be a different thing called Black Mirror Principle or something which Solars might have a mirror to on their side.
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>>98160772
>Which is the opposite of 3e's evocation paradigm.
Meaningless statement.
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>>98160882
>TBF, swords are tools, don't worship them.
>Evocations, if you use a magical sword, they have to define your whole character.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=8OrN9Z8fp14&pp=ygUjc29hcmluZyBjb3Ntb3MgVGh1bmRlcmJvbHQgZmFudGFzeSA%3D
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>>98160849
>the Ebon Dragon doesn't have any clear spiritual affiliation with Abyssals/Oblivion that would make his charms uniquely appropriate to them

> The Ebon Dragon is not a creature of the living world. Even before his imprisonment, he partook in the essence of the other side, of the things that follow life. He sipped from hidden springs beneath the world where one should not drink and loved only those doomed to die and, of them, only those deaths that would change the world.
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>>98160934
Yes? I'm right. That doesn't associate him spiritually with Abyssals or Oblivion.
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>>98160934
It cannot be helped, that other anon has eyes, but he cannot see mount Tai
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>>98158131
caste/aspect abilities aren't favored abilities
i know that sounds obvious, but it means that a character isn't going to maximize every tool they've been given. so far both twilight iconics are the sorcerer archetype, and so are specialized with occult, lore, possibly craft and other abilities. arriana is a scholar that took to fighting to access rare magic and knowledge. shen is a defector from the eye and an iselsi. they just aren't written to have medical knowledge or interest
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>>98161104
>caste/aspect abilities aren't favored abilities
I am aware, just that there's not a single Twilight Iconic with medicine focus.
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>>98161104
That anon also talking about the other iconics from caste book twilight, they all had medicine ● or ●●
And they all are sorcerers.
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>>98161122
>Sayn
>Craft 4
>Investigation 1
>Lore 2
>Medicine 1
>Occult 3
>Terrestrial Circle Sorcery

>Fehim
>Craft 2
>Investigation 3
>Lore 2
>Medicine 1
>Occult 3
>Terrestrial Circle Sorcery

>Iay
>Craft 2
>Investigation 1
>Lore 3
>Medicine 1
>Occult 3
>Terrestrial Circle Sorcery

>Horakinis
>Craft 1
>Investigation 3
>Lore 3
>Medicine 2
>Occult 4
>Terrestrial Circle Sorcery

>Arianna
>Craft 0
>Investigation 2
>Lore 3
>Medicine 1
>Occult 4
>Terrestrial Circle Sorcery
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>>98161156
>Investigation gets more love than Medicine
get ratio'd medicine
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>>98161156
I'm honestly shocked that all of them do have Medicine dots. Do they just take them for fun?

Wait, no, I know. They probably pick up the basics of medicine thinking 'oh i'll heal and help people' and then realise how utterly ineffective and meaningless Medicine is as a method to do that if they want to make any change on a greater level. Even with Solar charms it's still pretty much all single-target stuff that costs motes, utterly useless for even saving a decent sized town from the plague. Then they pivot to craft/sorcery/whatever.
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>>98161220
All but Sayn have Body-Mending Meditation
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>>98161183
Sorcery really warped the distribution, but if you really want to see a true ratio, compare how nobody invested in Eclipse's abilities.
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>>98161233
>Sayn
>N/A

>Fehim
>Bureaucracy 2 (Favoured)
>Linguistics 1

>Iay
>Linguistics 1
>Sail 2 (Favoured)
>Socialise 1

>Horakinis
>Bureaucracy 2 (Favoured)
>Linguistics 4 (Favoured)
>Ride 2 (Favoured)
>Socialise 1

>Arianna
>Bureaucracy 2 (Favoured)
>Linguistics 1
>Ride 5 (Favoured)
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>>98161246
Yes, it is the same in caste books night and dawn.
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>>98161254
So they also invested in them?
Okay.
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>>98161262
No, only two twilights invested on them.
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>>98161274
Eclipse abilities are Bureaucracy, Linguistics, Ride, Sail, and Socialise.
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>>98161156
>>98161246
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>>98161280
Yes, and only Arriana and Horakinis actually invested on them.
Iay and Fehym barely paid attention, while Sayn didn't at all.
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>>98161298
Ah, so investing doesn't mean investing, but heavily investing.
I'll be sure to update my dictionary.
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>>98161315
Getting a single dot isn't really "investing", specially with how charms are the main way of interacting with the setting/rules.
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>>98160849
What would the Devil-Tiger version of Abyssals look like? What is something that's like something that was is dead but never born? For Yozi you have the Primordials to theme yourself with.

Would they just get the charms of the dead Primordials or just a whole custom "Neverborn" charmset.
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>>98161832
>What would the Devil-Tiger version of Abyssals look like? What is something that's like something that was is dead but never born?
It would be a Onceborn.
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>>98161832
There's a decent chance they would be stuck with Oblivion as the source of their charmset because nothing in this setting is original apparently
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>>98160849
>>98161832
Moot point because the Neverborn are complete non-entities. They don't have Charms, themes or anything to differentiate one from the other.They're just kind of there. The Deathlords are the only ones who have substance to them, it's why the devs wanted to give Abyssals Deathlord-themed charms.
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>>98162118
I rather like the idea of murdering your exaltation and bringing it back to life with necromancy. Instead of Swallowing the Scorpion you Murder the Sun. When you create them you redefine what death means to your characters and get a type of immortality, where if you die instead X happens like being reborn, teleporting somewhere, ectect, whatever the player think fits their character.

It'd work like a perfect defense where you need specific narrative circumstances to get rid of it if you wanted to kill them for good but then you have an undead solar exaltation flying around with no one controlling it.

Another idea was just eating the Neverborn whole while playing with the "redefine death so the thing that can't die can do something else that's less miserable while getting me a power up." Either way 'you get to define what dying means' seems like something that could be a ton of fun to play with in Exalted.
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>>98162403
I don't know how I feel about that because I want the Neverborn to be screaming infinite voids of infinite suffering. It's just they're basically all the same if you do that and 2e seems to suggest that different Neverborn act differently. 1e and 3e too I think.
>>
>>98162432
The stuff that imply they are different is from 2e because that's the edition that fleshed out the Yozis the most.
>>
>>98162403
>The Deathlords are the only ones who have substance to them, it's why the devs wanted to give Abyssals Deathlord-themed charms.
Most of the deathlords blend together.
>>
>>98162472
One of them is a pirate.
>>
>>98162403
I have to agree with >>98162472
The deathlords are just uberghosts they don't have enough character to somehow mark the abyssals they are bassicaly a collection of Saurons of his ghost minions I don't remember how they are called.
They are meant to also grow increasingly obsolete because they are stuck in the past.
>>
>>98162472
>Most of the deathlords blend together.
That's not true.
>>
>>98162498
I don't the weird "translated" tittles help either. Maybe they don't have a decent reason to be remember beyond like 3 different plot points.
>>
>>98162498
>The deathlords are just uberghosts they don't have enough character to somehow mark the abyssals they are bassicaly a collection of Saurons of his ghost minions I don't remember how they are called.
Yes, the 1e Abyssals book even outright described them as primeval(primordials?) Abyssals.
>>
>>98161294
Iay just randomly has appearance 4
>>
>>98161832
>What would the Devil-Tiger version of Abyssals look like?
Abyssals are already the Devil-Tiger version of the ghost Exalted. The Deathlords are the more 'standard' Infernals to their DT. An Abyssal who leans into it is just an Abyssal taking a lot of permanent/Taint charms to become more of an oblivion thing.
>>
>>98162498
Maybe I'm misremembering but there was a whole thing with each of the death lords having an interlocking mission given by the individual Neverborn even in 1e?
>>
>>98162498
>They are meant to also grow increasingly obsolete because they are stuck in the past.
*launches fleet of first age ships directly up your anus*
*onceborns in your general direction*
*great contagion 2 this time with teleporting plague zombies*

I think your impression is based on how players feel that the Deathlords are obsolete and stuck in the past (obsolete as an endgame threat, stuck in past editions) rather than how they actually are a rising power in the world in-game.
>>
>>98163765
>I think your impression is based on how players feel that the Deathlords are obsolete and stuck in the past (obsolete as an endgame threat, stuck in past editions) rather than how they actually are a rising power in the world in-game.
No, I base it in the underlying theme the deathlords are mostly passive and obsessed with past glories. That's why they have done so little directly before the arrival of the Abyssals.
The abyssals are dynamic and live for current grievances; they are still alive and are passionate. They are the ones that will actually lead the charge while the deathlords navel-gaze in their towers of doom, waiting for Frodo to come and rape them.
The deathblow to creation will be done by abyssal hands while the dead wallow in their past.
>>
>>98153604
ladies, gentlemen, autoeja- i mean autocthonians all, the backer pdf of alchemicals is finally out
https://www.backerkit.com/c/projects/onyx-path/alchemicals-forged-by-the-machine-god-for-exalted-3e-rpg/updates/44961
if you backed for a copy, follow the link. and if anyone would upload that somewhere we can find it, we'd all appreciate it
>>
>>98163873
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUjGUWo4HrU
>>
>>98163822
>mostly passive
Except they really aren't. Most of them are really rather active. I struggle to see how anybody could think of the Silver Prince or First and Forsaken Lion or Walker or Eye and Seven Despairs or Heron as passive. The Dowager? Sure, but she's also not a Deathlord who is open for Abyssal PCs unless you make that an option. Lover maybe but that's probably just because I'm not very familiar with her game. Most of these assholes are out there doing shit and visibly (to us) making plays.

>That's why they have done so little directly before the arrival of the Abyssals.
No, they'd done so little because they'd all agreed to not give the game away. They've been playing at secret conspiracy. They're acting now because Thorns gave the game away, not because Abyssals are passionate or whatever. They'd go off eventually because Abyssals gave them a big collective power spike but the collective plots of the Underworld/Deathlords/Neverborn are going off ASAP because Thorns means there are a lot of eyes on them and the conspiracy is being dug into, not because of anything the Abyssals did.
>>
>>98163822
>No, I base it in the underlying theme the deathlords are mostly passive and obsessed with past glories. That's why they have done so little directly before the arrival of the Abyssals.
The first thing that came to my head was Masks ransacking thorns.
>>
>>98163873
Thanks.
>>
>>98163930
>Masks ransacking thorns.
After he got his Abyssals.
>>98163920
>not because of anything the Abyssals did.
Without Abyssals, there is no attack on Thorns' hell. Who knows?
The death might have spent all of eternity preparing if not for such catalysts.
>>
Hey did the poisonous Exalts actually get their rules published or are they still in production hell?
>>
>>98163941
>After he got his Abyssals
You can remove them and nothing would change.
Considering the iconics, they were nearly chargen.
>>
>>98163950
>>You can remove them and nothing would change.
>What are thematic elements?
In a practical sense you are likely correct; the mask could have taken Thorns. Although with greater difficulty.
But the point is that he decided to do so only after he had access to Abyssals. This is because the return of Solaroids is the setting catalyst for change, the start of a new age.
>>
>>98163950
Because all the solar level guys are supposed to have appeared in the last 5 years. Ignore the Infernals because their lore is jankier than a eastern European game.
>>
>>98163941
>Without Abyssals, there is no attack on Thorns'
Mask of Winters jumps the gun all the time. You're right that the Abyssals were the gun this time, but basically anything else could've fired it and had the same impact. The Abyssals themselves had zero effect on the events at Thorns and could've been replaced by the Ebon Dragon shouting 'you got this Winters' from the sidelines just as easily.
>>
>>98163965
>>98163978
Actually, now that you mention the Solars, you know what else could've triggered the Mask of Winters to take over Thorns? A bunch of Solars getting loose and Winters going 'welp its now or never'. Maybe he'd even say something like 'yknow i was a solar too back in the day this is rightful solar clay amirite solar buds' and try to remake the Deliberative or something.
>>
>>98163978
The unconquered sun could have come down from heaven and easily stopped the mask of winters from taking Thorns.
A lot of things could happen but didn't.
The things that did happen serve to illustrate the themes the writers are going for.
>>
>>98163991
>The things that did happen serve to illustrate the themes the writers are going for.
Abyssals being useless nobodies who hang around in the background and do nothing while Deathlords are the dynamic and passionate conquerers who make big plays?
>>
>>98163996
The abyssals being active agents while the deathlords "scheme" in their towers.
>>
>>98163991
To add to my other post, Abyssals are meant to eventually outpace the deathlords, so it would be dumb to have them immediately outshine them; they start as lackeys that eventually become the main big bad guys.
>>
>>98163984
Hey that would be a pretty neat way to go about it.
>>
>>98163999
In caste book night, Abyssals were minions sent to fetch things, and battered ones at that.
>>
>>98163999
but the opposite is what's been happening so far, and if what's happened so far is what the devs intend to happen in the future, then the Deathlords are going to be passionate and dynamic actors on the world stage while the Abyssals suck people and suck people off.
>>
>>98164006
It would require hundred(s) in game years, and the deathlords "have all the charms in this book and all solar charms as well".
>>
>>98164015
>>98164017
see >>98164006
The deathlords are the power structure that the Abyssals will outgrow/replace as the prime champions of the neverborn.
>>
>>98164024
What is their big weakness?
They work alone.
Abyssals work in groups; that's how they will defeat them.
But I do agree they are overtuned, likely as a vestige of old WOD costumes of having NPCs that you are never meant to fight with statblocks like "You die."
>>
>>98164037
They have vast armies, to the point some could completely eradicate all the nephwrecks from existence.
>>
>>98163984
>Maybe he'd even say something like 'yknow i was a solar too back in the day this is rightful solar clay amirite solar buds' and try to remake the Deliberative or something.
That is probably something he'd attempt. Dude's an incurable glory hound, and more insecure than a big name celebrity on social media.
>>
>>98164024
It's amazing how WW keeps writing the PCs into being irrelevant if they were consistent enough to follow what they imply half the time.
In this essay I will explain why WW should make the novels their main product...
>>
Can you use Avoiding the Truth through Presence in Absence?
>>
>>98164043
And abyssals have the tools to build their own armies.
They are literally just getting started.

>>98164052
I think the problem is that people seem to require the literary equivalent of yellow painting in videogames to figure out that you are meant to do big things against big odds.
You don't need the writers to make a point-by-point guide on how to unite the exalted, or cure the great curse, or cleanse Abyssal/Infernal exaltations, or to rebuild a better realm, etc.
>>
>>98163947
poisonous exalts?
>>
>>98163947
Yes, she is in the exigents companion.

>>98164052
>In this essay I will explain why WW should make the novels their main product...
They tried, but failed.
If WW were full novelists instead of RPG writers, nobody would really care for them.
Masquerade would be decried as a Anne Rice rip-off, Apocalypse would have to compete with animorphs, wings of fire, warrior cats, etc... it would be possible for mage to have a cult following, but the other lines would become laughing stocks.
>>
>>98164066
>I think the problem is that people seem to require the literary equivalent of yellow painting in videogames to figure out that you are meant to do big things against big odds
Like fighting against kukla, who auto kills you if you don't runs in panic in the other direction.
>>
>>98164086
The most notorious remnant of WOD style NPCs
>>
>>98164091
Is it really a remnant/exception when they kept introducing them in 1e?
>>
>>98164100
Yeah, because they are few.
>>
>>98164066
>>98164037
>What is their big weakness?
>They work alone.
>And abyssals have the tools to build their own armies.
>They are literally just getting started.
Deathlords typically have more Abyssal allies than Abyssals do, better tools to build armies, and better armies too.
>>
>>98164117
Abyssals are the potential man of the setting, only beaten by the hors concour Lunars.
>>
>>98164073
The chosen of the poisonous panoply or something along those lines.
>>98164080
>They tried, but failed.
That's why I'm shit posting about it.
>>
>>98164156
>The chosen of the poisonous panoply or something along those lines.
The thousands poison mistress? She is in the first companion.

>That's why I'm shit posting about it.
A funny thing is that they never got to be auto referential like D&D, and they hate the material that they influenced because it is bad wrong fun.
>>
>>98164138
Lunars are the non-mythical Zoan of Devil Fruit.
>>
File: 4d9.png (525.4 KB)
525.4 KB
The Alchemicals backer PDF is out. Should anyone have it, I would be grateful if it were to be shared here.
>>
>>98164187
Exalted has a lot of weird baggage because of the lines of thought that created it and the niche it occupies.
So much of it is trying to not be what came before it comes back around to be derivative at times and I'm not going on another tangent about how this game struggles to tie itself together beyond "Level 21+ Asian WoD"
>>
>>98163991
The theme is just that a whole lot of things are happening right now, though, not that Deathlords are passive and focused on the past. Status quo breaking down in a big, dramatic and general way, and PCs living in interesting times, is the point.
>>
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